Amazon US Refunds Windows License Fee, Too 284
rrohbeck writes "Today Amazon credited my card with $65.45. After ordering an Eee PC 1005 HA from amazon.com, I asked them for a refund for the cost of Windows XP via the 'Contact us' form. At first they told me to cancel any items on my order that I wanted a refund for, but after I explained that XP was pre-installed on the machine they got it. They asked what the cost of the OS was, and I answered that I had no idea but that Amazon UK refunded £40.00. Within a few hours I got a response saying 'I've requested a refund of $65.45 to your Visa card.' Somehow I doubt that Amazon will charge Asus or even Microsoft, but maybe they will one day if more people do this. Oh, and peeling off the 'Designed for Microsoft Windows XP' sticker is easy, too."
Customer service apparently alive still (Score:5, Informative)
The news about the death of customer service are greatly exaggerated.
Re:Customer service apparently alive still (Score:4, Informative)
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Story time.
4 months ago, my Maxtor hard drive died after about a year of use. Sometimes these things happen.
I requested a RMA, and sent the drive off, and didn't hear anything for a few weeks. Eventually, I began to get suspicious, and contacted support, who told me (after a delay of several days) that they'd received the drive, but somehow lost it. I informed them that I would be moving in a few days, and to send the repaired drive to my new address, given the egregious delay.
I received a series of baff
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I don't think that it's actually Newegg that makes the credit decisions. I'm pretty sure that the credit is actually supplied by another provider, and that Newegg probably just gets a kickback on the deal.
Keep the sticker (Score:5, Insightful)
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I usually peel them (and the "Intel Inside" warning labels) off and put them on toilets and trash cans.
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"Warning labels" lol
For those using Ubuntu, System76 offers free stickers [system76.com]
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But can you get a replacement "super" key for a Dell Inspiron 1420 with the Ubuntu logo rather than the Windows logo? Buying a Dellbuntu is nice, and they don't put any Windows stickers on it, but that damn key is still there...
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system76 [system76.com] offers them
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WD-40 works very well for removing sticker glue.
Re:Keep the sticker (Score:5, Funny)
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My server only runs on 105 leaded race fuel, according to the sticker on it.
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My Acer Aspire One (Linux version, since it is easily available in the UK) came with the customised version of Linux on the recovery partition (it lasted about two days before I installed Kuki Linux -- a customisation of Ubuntu -- from a USB stick and wiped the whole drive).
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I see it has been quite a while since you bought a new computer.
Like everything else (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Like everything else (Score:5, Insightful)
they will just raise the price for everyone else.
You are correct. It should increase everyone elses price. If its not something he is going to use, why should he subsidize others?
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they will just raise the price for everyone else.
You are correct. It should increase everyone elses price. If its not something he is going to use, why should he subsidize others?
Surely it will lower the price.
In a monopoly the price is set by the maximum the market can bear, not the total cost of shipping the millions of licences.
This has shown the first (one of the first) chink that the market can't bear quite as much
Re:Like everything else (Score:5, Insightful)
really makes you want to just delete slashdot cookies, use a proxy, and say screw these posting limits.
Is Slashdot really that important to you that you'd go to all that trouble? Your really ought to get out more.
Re:Like everything else (Score:5, Insightful)
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A lot depends on how many more people ask Amazon for a refund for an unwanted Windows license!!
The moment people will find out that they can both keep the license and get a refund.
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Why would I want yet another XP license? Sell it? I'd rather tell people to install Ubuntu; they'll be grateful in the end. Especially XP Home with the latest WGA - I have several old XP Pro licenses from laptops that I converted. Anybody who has been around for a while must have XP licenses coming out their ears.
I'd be happy if Amazon set up a process where you have to return the license sticker for the refund.
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Most people are perfectly comfortable with Windows.
If the word gets out that you can take off $65 of the laptop price by calling Amazon and asking for a refund without anyone actually checking that you are not using your Windows license, more people will start doing exactly that. That is when Amazon will come up with a better process for handling Windows refunds.
I bet you could sell it to someone else for more (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I bet you could sell it to someone else for mor (Score:5, Funny)
Personally it would be funnier to leave the 'Designed for Windows XP' sticker alone and place a 'But running a real OS instead' sticker next to it.
Thinkgeek.com should start selling some of those (in the small metallic glossy format typical of such things).
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but it'll activate on another computer and won't ever fail WGA.
Maybe, maybe not. It could be a manufacturer specific key. [iexbeta.com]
Re:I bet you could sell it to someone else for mor (Score:5, Informative)
It will not activate.
For quite some time now, all major OEMs have been printing "dummy keys" to the COAs. The official method of recovery (a recovery CD or a recovery partition) never asks for the key as the OS is pre-activated. This official recovery method obviously won't install to anything other than the hardware it was shipped with. Usually it is tied to a specific custom BIOS. If you try to install a standard OEM disc with the key found on the COA, you'll find that the installer won't reject it outright (it will allow you to complete the installation) but when you try to activate, it will instruct you to contact Microsoft by phone.
I haven't had experiences with laptops but in cases of desktops you can get MS to issue you a new working key by stating that the PC was repaired and this required a motherboard replacement (hence, you had to use a replacement media and this issue came up). For laptops, not sure what would make MS give you a new key - the license is tied to the piece of hardware it was sold with. You are most likely out of luck and have to contact the manufacturer of the hardware. You could try to bluff the droid on the phone by stating the same thing (motherboard was replaced due to fault) and assume that the key doesn't tell if it was bundled with a laptop.
Before MS and OEMs started doing this, people just wrote down keys off publicly accessible computers and used those to activate standard OEM disc installations. I never quite got the original idea why it was smart to print the valuable product key on a sticker where anyone could snap a picture or write it down, but this was MS we're talking about...
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Yeah - but not only does MS "not like it" ... They actively spend money on lawyers to harass and threaten anyone they catch attempting to do it (despite "right of first sale" law seeming to be on the side of the consumer on this one).
I tried selling unopened OEM copies of Windows 2000 Professional, years back, with original COA certificates still shrink-wrapped with the media - and the Microsoft legal team got my eBay auctions canceled promptly, and sent me legal threats in email.
Another attempt on Craigsli
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one cannot buy XP retail anymore
Note true. Not only are retail versions of XP SP2 still available [newegg.com], it's very [ewiz.com] trivial [ewiz.com] to find legal OEM licenses of Windows XP Pro SP3 available for purchase. I know, I recently bought two OEM licenses of Windows XP in Spanish; they were out of stock so I had to wait a couple of months until Microsoft printed up some more.
Nope (Score:5, Insightful)
They sure as hell won't be refunding $65 to everyone, when the OEM probably only paid $15 dollars for it or less.
25 to 40 USD is the Netbook OEM Price (Score:5, Informative)
...at least according to this article [sitepoint.com]. The author makes a convincing argument that MS took a bath with that price in order to keep Linux from gaining a toe-hold in the netbook/notebook market, and also credits the threat of Linux Netbook Popularity with the extension of XP to 2010 and modifications of specs on Windows 7. A good read.
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LoB
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OEMs get volume discounts. I'm sure if you were willing to buy 1000s of copies, you might get a discount too.
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It can, provided your PC meets certain specifications. Windows XP for Ultra Low-Cost-PC (yes, that's it's name!) can be had for about $15 for OEMs. It's just XP Hom
but will they sell you XP for the $65? (Score:3, Interesting)
But the real question is, can you call 'em up today and order a XP license for the same $65?
Re:but they won't sell you XP for the $65? (Score:2)
Why is that the question? They give OEM's a discount, to prevent them from thinking along the lines of - hey, no bulk discount for an easily copied software so I'll just under-report how many I'm selling.
The answer is No, they won't sell it to an individual for that cost. And as long as people see it as better than the previous offering (which is almost guaranteed, until they make a rock-solid OS to begin with), the next version will always cost more than (previous version + adjustment for inflation).
The
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But the real question is, can you call 'em up today and order a XP license for the same $65?
Not an MS fan by a long stretch, but still: why would you expect to get a full retail price refund on a bundled item? If that were generally possible, you could make a living by buying composite items and getting refunds for their individual parts, the sum exceeding the original purchase price.
OK (Score:5, Funny)
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Or linux like I did on my laptop.
Or reuse your existing vista license on a second machine.
Maybe OSx86.
Its not because you refund your OEM windows license that you're a pirate.
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Did the same with Dell Last Year (Score:5, Informative)
I did the same with Dell last year when I ordered my XPS M1330. It came with Vista + MS Works (at the time they had no pretend Linux alternative - with lower specs and same price as a Vista laptop).
I wrote to Dell for a refund and enclosed a printed out screenshot (via digital camera) of me ticking the "I reject license" on Vista bootup and another screenshot of Kubuntu running on the laptop.
A month later I was refunded £120 + vat for both Vista and Works. Not bad considering the laptop cost £520 - minus M$ Tax = £400.
Not very scalable (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, if 10 people do this, Amazon is going to find out what it really costs, and it isn't $65 or anything close to that.
Secondly, they are't going to do this without some kind of verification. It sounds like someone asked for money and they gave it to them. Great customer service but hardly something they can operate a business on. So unless there is a verifiable way to determine that XP has been irrevocably uninstalled I don't see this happening too much more.
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I assume they have the activation key on hand and will request that Microsoft deactivate it.
Re:Not very scalable (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe it'll prompt them to start offering 'blank' EEE versions.
That would be nice, if you don't want a bundled OS, you should be able to buy the hardware that way minus the OS license cost.
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Aren't Linux EEEPCs sold in the US? They're sold here, and since the license cost is $0 that's good enough for people not wanting an OS.
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In the case of the Eee 900A I bought from Best Buy, it looked as if it were designed to make sure no one really wanted Linux on it, as it was set up with a 4 GB SSD and Xandros Linux with UnionFS, so that as soon as it got an Internet connection it downloaded enough updates to fill the SSD and make it unusable.
I knew enough to wipe Xandros and install Ubuntu Eee (later Easy Peasy)--but Joe Average would stomp back to Best Buy in a snit and ask for his money back or trade up to a different {net, note}book, a
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First off, if 10 people do this, Amazon is going to find out what it really costs, and it isn't $65 or anything close to that.
Secondly, they are't going to do this without some kind of verification. ... So unless there is a verifiable way to determine that XP has been irrevocably uninstalled I don't see this happening too much more.
Arlo Guthrie said something relevant on the matter:
And the only reason I'm singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar situation,
or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into the shrink wherever you are,
just walk in say "Shrink, You can get anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out.
You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't t
Dell's pricing (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Dell's pricing (Score:4, Interesting)
What's interesting is I recently picked up a Dell mini (10v) with Ubuntu pre-installed, and the price was the exact same as the one that came with XP pre-installed.
I just read somewhere that the average cost of a single customer support call to Dell and likes is higher than what they pay MS for OEM Windows. And when selling Linux to 'the masses', more people call support (why doesn't app/game/gadget work, etc). This is one of the main reasons why many vendors selling Linux netbooks stopped and switched to XP after high return and support rates, not some vast conspiracy, but economics.
Re:Dell's pricing (Score:4, Insightful)
The reason people smell conspiracy is the sudden drop of all Linux, anywhere, as soon as Microsoft reacted to the growing Linux use. They didn't take the netbook market seriously at first, but then overnight you couldn't buy a Linux netbook at a brick and mortar store if you wanted to. That's the conspiracy.
You can't tell me it's economics. There are plenty of ways they could have made money hands over fist. Instead, they let Microsoft kill the whole category.
That's cheap! (Score:2)
Do they cancel the WGA key? (Score:2, Interesting)
Or do you get the refund and the option to continue to use the OS? Surely Amazon isn't tied all the way back through ASUS to Microsoft's licensing servers.
Re:Do they cancel the WGA key? (Score:5, Insightful)
Or do you get the refund and the option to continue to use the OS? Surely Amazon isn't tied all the way back through ASUS to Microsoft's licensing servers.
That's fine if you have no personal integrity. The rest of us might have a problem.
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If this is true that a simple phone call can get a few fins back in some users wallet and the key still works you know it's going to be taken advantage of. "The rest of us" isn't as big of a number as you might think it is.
Re:Do they cancel the WGA key? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Must Mod Parent and Sibling Up! (Score:2)
Come on now, this is Slashdot.... where posts about "I haven't paid for Windows ever even tho it's on 12 of my b0xen" normally gets modded up.
Re:Do they cancel the WGA key? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, I was asking about the technical side of it, but thanks for making it an ethical issue.
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The number of people that (a) feel twinges of guilt when they violate copyright, and (b) feel twinges of guilt when screwing over MS... it has to be vanishingly small.
Re:Do they cancel the WGA key? (Score:5, Informative)
Or do you get the refund and the option to continue to use the OS? Surely Amazon isn't tied all the way back through ASUS to Microsoft's licensing servers.
The point isn't to rob Microsoft. The point is to not pay for something you are not going to use.
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The point isn't to rob Microsoft. The point is to not pay for something you are not going to use.
Quite right. Robbing MS is just the added, sweet, bonus.
Anyhow, I am going to at least try this, because the netbook in the submission is exactly what I was looking at buying.
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So... The Man done you wrong, therefore you can break the law.
Did you ever try to get a refund on those copies of Windows you didn't want or use? Did you try to sell them? Or are you just complaining?
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> Did you ever try to get a refund on those copies of Windows you didn't want or use?
> Did you try to sell them? Or are you just complaining?
Way to miss the point of this whole topic dude. [Whoosh!]
The whole point is somebody actually found a way to get the money back on a product they didn't want but were forced to buy anyway. And no you can't sell them. The sticker isn't physically removable without destroying it and it isn't legal (at least it isn't EULA legal, certainly it is morally right and
There should never be an OS charge (Score:5, Interesting)
As a Linux user I don't understand why I'd pay someone to hit next 4 times and partitioning a drive which a 5 year old could do. Even when I talked to Dell they only offered to install the "Big" Linux names.
If I'm going to buy a notebook then I want to make sure it comes unbundled and with a clean HDD so I can put what I need onto it. The problem is I can't seem to get any one to send me a blank notebook that I can install a proper OS to, if I spend the 100 dollar software package bundle then I'll wipe the notebook when I get it wasting the 100 dollars, but when I tell the computer store / company I'm going to wipe it so don't sell me the bundle they tell me they can't.
Does anyone else have this problem?
vulnerability (Score:2)
These stores will start to get the message when they find that enough people are willing to waste their time as they try to waste our time. Their vulnerability is they pay their staff usually by the hour and they pay rent.
We need to just keep refusing to pay for what we don't want in their bundles. The more time we waste the more the message gets through. Short answer: We don't want your garbage. Where do I recycle?
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i buy and sell laptops w/o an o/s, if that's what the customer wants. i would guess the biggest problem for an oem like dell is, when you sell a laptop w/ no o/s, you still have to take the step of actually installing something to verify all the hardware works properly. then there's more work involved in swapping the hd w/ an empt
System 73? (Score:2)
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> As a Linux user I don't understand why I'd pay someone to hit next 4 times and partitioning a drive which a 5 year
> old could do. Even when I talked to Dell they only offered to install the "Big" Linux names.
Just try it kid. I double dog dare you. The preloads ARE worth it. Just bought three HP Minis and looked at just wiping their over customized Linux off and putting Ubuntu Netbook Remix on. No fracking way, the wired port didn't work, two battery applets would appear at random, the internal s
Still not progress (Score:5, Insightful)
Amazon is just the retailer, but as long as the OEM is still cashing in from the license sale, it's no real progress. It doesn't make a difference if the retailer is giving you the refund, the money is still going to the OEM and as a result, Microsoft. And as long as this happens, they'll still enter corrupt bargaining deals and shut out Linux from mainstream offerings. We need OEMs to give the refund, not the retailer.
So maybe eventually, Amazon will ask the OEMs for a refund for the license. What will the OEMs say? Probably no. Then what will happen? Amazon will probably start refusing the refund as well too. Back at square one, going back to buy my computers from system76, itwasfunwhileitlasted, etc.
In any case, if I were Microsoft, I'd change the wording of the EULA to something like "By purchasing this computer, you consent to pay for all software preinstalled, whatever" to bar these refunds. I don't think it's unenforceable.
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Don't buy ASUS (Score:2)
It's good to get the refund, but IMO FOSS types should boycott ASUS. I own an EEE-701, which was the original category-killer. Linux propelled netbooks to fame, and then ASUS weasled out with their "itsbetterwithwindows" campaign.
There are plenty of companies willing to sell netbooks with Linux pre-loaded (Acer makes a very nice model) and we should patronize them.
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The 'Designed for Microsoft Windows Sticker" (Score:2, Insightful)
this is good but it isn't consistent (Score:3, Informative)
from http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/30/taxing-times-for-free-choice/ [theopensourcerer.com]:
isn't it remarkable that they started getting these requests when they did the XP eeePC! What an uncanny co-incidence.
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Actually the EULA says to go back to the manufacturer for a refund on the software if you do not agree. In other words you should talk to Asus, if they don't agree, take it to small claims.
Not sure why (Score:3, Insightful)
Not that I don't appreciate that Amazon will let customers sell them back the Microsoft Windows software, but I'm sort of wondering why. (Here comes the car analogy.) If I buy a Subaru WRX with a normal shifter but plan on putting in a short-throw shifter after-market, Subaru isn't going to buy back my normal shifter. They sell me what they have on the lot. In terms of Amazon, I'm buying what they're offering: a laptop running Windows. If I want a laptop running a different OS, I'd buy it somewhere else. If there are no vendors selling that laptop without Windows, then I eat the cost, or try to recoup my costs by reselling the license (which I don't think is transferable but in this case one could probably make an exception).
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OK, here's my stupid, naive question (Score:2)
What to do with a "Designed for Windows XP" Label (Score:3, Insightful)
I discovered that those colurful "Designed for Windows" stickers look positively marvelous on the white porcelain just above the flush lever on my toilet.
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refunds (Score:5, Insightful)
A number of people have pointed out that a few refunds for XP is not a sign that anything is changing. I believe these refunds only show that Amazon has not formed any kind of official policy for this situation. They are simply erring on the side of not pissing people off, because technical people are going to buy more computer products, either from Amazon or someone else who treats them better. I'm sure they are aware of the press.
Sometime soon, I think we will see a more permanent resolution to this customer service issue. I can't say whether it will be progress or not.
Remove the Windows logo key from keyboard? (Score:3, Funny)
But how does one remove or replace the crash key^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Windows logo key from the keyboard? This is a laptop so it isn't as easy as switching a keyboard.
It has always bothered me that keyboard hardware manufacturers brand their hardware with Microsoft's logo when a simple keyboard really should remain OS neutral. I'm sure they are getting paid by MS for this.
- posted using a nice old AT style keyboard from before the Windows key insanity began.
'Designed for Microsoft Windows XP' (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd rather have a computer that is designed to work securely.
Re:get a brain, moron! (Score:4, Insightful)
It may be no skin, but it is apparently $65.
He did what is right for him. As others have pointed out more generically, why should he subsidize your Windows use?
Did he tell you to refuse the MS license and to reclaim your fee? I didn't see it.
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I could not quite understand what you are trying to say. If your point is that rrohbeck should have sucked it up and not asked for a refund, then, sorry, it is you who is the moron. Why should someone pay for something they do not want if there is an option to get their money back?
To give you the obligatory car analogy: Imagine $carmanifacturer bundles a TomTom nav with any car sale by default. You do not want the TomTom, either because you already have one or because you can get a different nav somewhere e
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Cheers!
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Sure, it has its issues and it may be a bit expensive, but that's not a very nice way to describe Windows XP.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)