Microsoft Takes Responsibility For GPL Violation 364
An anonymous reader writes with an update to the news we discussed last weekend that a Windows 7 utility seemed to contain GPL code:
"Microsoft has confirmed that the Windows 7 USB/DVD tool did, in fact, use GPL code, and they have agreed to release the tool's source code under the terms of GPLv2. In a statement, Microsoft said creation of the tool had been contracted out to a third party and apologized for not noticing the GPL code during a code review."
Good on MS (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Good on MS (Score:5, Funny)
First I read some article about Gates praising Jobs [appleinsider.com], and now this?
I think the Mayans might be on to something.
Re:Good on MS (Score:5, Funny)
I think the Mayans might be on to something.
The Y2012 bug is exaggerated. There isn't much Mayan code in reality and what's there probably won't generate any irrecoverable errors. Besides if there were going to be problems, we'd see systems that depended on dates after 2012 failing now. You'd see things like extremely unlikely coincidences and bizarre flukes of fate. Since we don't see th%@HG%#@%YG@$^[CARRIER LOST]
MS - Mayan Sacrifices (Score:5, Funny)
Y2012 problem: Mayan calendar runs out (Score:5, Funny)
The New Age spiritually aware around the world are running up against the end of the Mayan Long Count Calendar [today.com]. Mayan date 12.19.19.17.19 will occur on December 20, 2012, followed by the start of the fourteenth cycle, 13.0.0.0.0, on December 21st.
The event was first flagged by megalith scientist Terence McKenna. The end of the thirteenth cycle would break many megalith calculations — which conventionally use only the last four numbers to save on standing stones — with fears of spiritual collapse, disruption of ley lines, Ben Goldacre driving the chiropractors back into the sea and the return of the great god Quetzalcoatl and the consequent destruction of all life on earth.
Megalith programmers from 4000 years ago are being dredged up from peat bogs and pressed into service to get the henges updated to handle the turnover in the date. “It could be worse,” said one. “I could still be programming COBOL.”
Sceptics may choose the Winter Solstice on December 22nd (13.0.0.0.1) to attack, to take advantage of weakened qi. In case vital services are temporarily cut off, spiritually aware persons should stock up on crystals, copies of Sun Signs, a duly blessed tarot deck and other essentials. “They should get as well a suitable selection of blessed Hopi ear candles,” said Y2012 consultant Ravenwoo Granola, DD, 31, Ph.D (Univ. P.T. Barnum Mail-Order), “unicorn posters, holistic medicines, Silver RavenWolf books, purple clothing, protective pentacles — earrings for the ladies, pendants for the gents — make sure the house is absolutely robust in feng shui, your energetic vibrations are aligned and your Eostre rituals are up to date and keep only homeopathic quantities of money around. I’ll be happy to take on the danger of handling the rest. Here’s a price list. Everyfink for the spiritual survivalist.”
Others dismiss the problem. Sandra Noble of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies considers the Y2012 problem “a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in.” However, Y2012 consultants deride “2012-deniers” for having their heads in the sand as to the vast and overwhelming spiritual importance to humanity of keeping their consultancies rolling.
Nice (Score:2)
Re:Good on MS (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Except 2012 was a miscalculation [slashdot.org] and the real year is supposedly 2220.
Re:Good on MS (Score:5, Funny)
What next, Linus stars in an "I'm a PC" commercial?
What, you mean like this [engadget.com]?
Re:Good on MS (Score:4, Funny)
How about:
"I'm a PC"
"I'm a Mac"
Just as they are really getting into the commercial, a certain flightless waterfowl comes out and starts pecking both of them off the screen
Linux: The Other PC.
This would work great for all of those annoying Windows 7 ads too. Maybe we could have something like the original Energizer Bunny commercials.
Global Warming is a Hoax? (Score:2)
Re:Global Warming is a Hoax? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Good on MS (Score:4, Funny)
What next, Linus stars in an "I'm a PC" commercial?
Those Windows 7 commercials where random people describe how they emailed Microsoft about making Windows 7 better all end with the person saying " ... and Windows 7 was my idea!"
It all makes sense now. The people in the commercial weren't protected by the GPL, and MS took their ideas.
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Luckily, now to the GPL cancer properties, MS has to make all of windows GPL right? I mean, this is what they have been warning would happen to people's code if the GPL tainted it right? Or am I off my rocker? ~;-)
Re:Good on MS (Score:5, Funny)
And I was marked troll [slashdot.org] and ridiculed [slashdot.org] for saying that this is what they are obliged to do. From the bottom of my heart, fuck you slashdot. Also just disregard the mod points on the post, look at the amount of people responding without even thinking twice about what they are writing. There is no space here for truth, only hormones of feeble minded fools. And the "mods", being us who receive mod points to classify the value of information in posts, are no better in doing the job anymore than the rest of you. Slashdot is the fundamental definition of "defective by design", and you'll come to notice that only the idiots stay longer than average. This is my last post, and I truly hope nobody cares as that would prove it being the outmost right decision to take.
Oh and before you respond to this in some sad attempt of ridicule such as "cry me a river" or any other internet meme which has already been done close to an infinite amount of time, know that I won't be here to read it. So knowing that you may go ahead and waste your time.
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Get with the times, he's moved on to hating KDE 4 now, all the posers are back on Gnome.
Re:Good on MS (Score:4, Informative)
Indeed. I applaud them for swiftly and appropriately handling the problem- to the point of taking the high-road for a change and offering the changed source code up instead of simply pulling it all out.
It doesn't make up for what they've done over the years (and apparently still doing...sadly...) but it's a good start in the right direction.
Re:Good on MS (Score:4, Insightful)
What is so awesome about MS staging a GPL violation that "forces" them to release the source code of their product? This will only feed the "GPL is cancer" mindset.
Obviously, they intentionally inserted GPL code so that they would be embarrassed, have to apologize, and release source code that they think is worth a lot of money! Wait, what?
Your post only gets more delusional from there.
Re:Good on MS (Score:5, Interesting)
It's the integrity of how they handled the situation... someone pointed out the possible GPL violation... they pull the tool and let everyone know they're looking into it... then they announce they've looked into it and as a result, they're going to release the source code in accordance with the GPL, something MS would rather not do, to honor the licence, and the community need for the tool.
Integrity = Awesome, in my humble opinion...
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ProTools runs on 10.6 now. (but only ProTools 8. I assume he has an older version)
But couldn't he wipe drive and install 10.5 from an install disk? My "10.6" macbook pro came with 10.5 installed and a 10.6 disk in the box.
Someone who runs ProTools on a Mac can harldy complain about lock in - both Apple and Digidesign are masters of lock in. "You WILL use the hardware my companay sells, and only that hardware!"
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Instead they built themselves a 1st party case study in how the GPL is a virus that forces companies to give up their intellectual property.
Or, alternatively, also based on no evidence at all, they were embarrassed to find that they had shipped a product with GPL code in it, and in a sudden outbreak of common sense figured they had nothing to lose and released the code.
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Funny, I missed the "GPL is a virus" point in their press release... I just thought they had integrity.
Re:Good on MS (Score:5, Informative)
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I'd find something stolen off the net, and I'd have to pull it and reprimand the vendor, and then get them to do the work and pay them for it again.
Wait, what? The contract forbade the vendor from using stolen code, but didn't provide Microsoft any financial remedy when this behavior was discovered? Not only should you not have had to pay them to do the work again, the vendor should have made financial concessions.
What the hell was the legal team doing?
What you need to know... (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason why I am asking is so that I can get a feel for the validity of your statement about the coding culture amongst people working for Microsoft.
There are very few things you need to know here. Programmers for Microsoft:
Whether your interest is as a prospective buyer of their output of a prospective employer of a former Microsoft programmer, the choice is clear. Microsoft carefully selects their programmers from the brightest and the best because they can. They filter for the folks who can coexist with them because they must. They drive them with the processes that they have. The programmers deliver what they can in this context and accept the limitations of the context as a condition of employment. Having survived this experience a programmer must necessarily have certain properties which, depending on your point of view, mark him "desirable" or "undesirable".
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
But, but... Aren't patents supposed to be reviewed and spur innovation?
We have been fooled!
Re:Good on MS (Score:4, Interesting)
Well exactly. In this case Microsoft paid for what they believed was closed source code, it was a third party vendor that broke the GPL, but because Microsoft released the executable, well they're responsible.
Which raises a question - how do you check these things? If the vendor cut and pasted code in, and removed comments that identified its source and the source's licensing agreement how do you spot this? It's not feasible to download every single open source project and start a diff against every single file they contain, so how do you do it?
wow, the beginning of the end (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft 7 legally contains GPL code.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
This was a USB/DVD burning tool offered on by Microsoft to help people install Windows 7 by burning the iso to USB/DVD. As far as I know, it is not included in Windows 7.
Re:wow, the beginning of the end (Score:5, Informative)
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"If it was actually part of Windows 7 i think there would have been a much bigger fuss!"
If it was actually part of Windows Microsoft would probably do a quadruple check to see if they don't have any infringing code in their operating system and ofcourse there would be extra emphasis on OSS licenses like the GPL because if the infriging code was from another company, the company would only be interested in a big sum of cash. If there is GPL code in Windows, the FSF would probably start a case that would be r
Re:wow, the beginning of the end (Score:5, Insightful)
If there is GPL code in Windows, the FSF would probably start a case that would be revolutionary in the computer world since it could mean opensourcing Windows.
No, let me repeat this once more.
The author was entitled to compensation for the illegal distribution of his code, and he could demand that Microsoft stopped distributing it. That's it. (Well, there are harsher penalties for copyright infringement, including jail time, but they wouldn't apply in this case.)
Microsoft instead CHOSE to accept the GPL license for that particular code (they obviously hadn't accepted the license before, since they weren't even aware that it applied). They are either using the GPLv3 infringement remediation clauses or just hoping that the author will reinstate their license. But that was a CHOICE they made. They could have just paid up and had someone replace the GPL code with proprietary code.
If it turned out that GPL code was spread throughout Windows (highly unlikely, I'd think), they would almost certainly prefer to pay up rather than make Windows Free Software.
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They've had GPL code in products [microsoft.com] before.
Microsoft acting responsibly? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft acting responsibly? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Redundant)
Mine too. A few more thousand instances of them acting legally, and a few years of them not acting illegally and I might start thinking of them as not much worse than most mega-corporations.
Code Review (Score:3, Insightful)
IDEA:
When you're that big a company you should review all of your code as much as you think the patent office should review others patents.
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They do - why do you think big companies use their patent portfolios as a THREAT rather than use them? If the examiner had done their job I am betting nowhere NEAR as many software patents would be granted as have been.
ala. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/11/11/2055226 [slashdot.org]
Re:Code Review (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Code Review (Score:5, Insightful)
And it's impossible for anyone to be familiar with every piece of GPL'd code out there, and it's impossible to build a database of such code.
Well, at least one company [blackducksoftware.com] is trying to do just that, and to help companies avoid this very problem.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Question: how can you tell GPL code is GPL code unless you know that it's GPL code? My point is that code reviews are cool, but they cannot catch things that the reviewers don't know to look for. And it's impossible for anyone to be familiar with every piece of GPL'd code out there, and it's impossible to build a database of such code. The best way to handle it was the way that they handled it. Someone found the error, told MS, and MS became compliant by releasing the code.
It's called MOSS [stanford.edu]. Free for educational use, though a company like Microsoft would need a site license, but it would probably pay for itself when you factor in the money paid to PR firms to compensate for blunders like this.
I mean, I don't think anyone seriously thinks MS intended to steal GPL code. But if you have subcontractors writing shitty code, and you're forced to acknowledge this publicly, that have a very real cost - it undermimes your image as a respectable software company.
Re:Code Review (Score:5, Insightful)
IDEA: When you're that big a company you should review all of your code as much as you think the patent office should review others patents.
so I should just stamp 'REJECTED' on the first page and call it a day?
Wow look what happened... (Score:3, Funny)
Hey folks, did you see that pig fly?? It was quite impressive. So fat, and trumped. Never thought it would get off the ground... But there it went...
Re:Wow look what happened... (Score:5, Funny)
Swine Flu.
Give some credit (Score:5, Insightful)
Give some credit, they did a code review, noticed the accusation was factual and did the right thing. As many times as microsoft has done the wrong thing, it's only right to credit them for doing the right thing this time.
The interesting question now is if they will retain this tool going forward, or replace it with another that is not GPL'd. It certainly sounds like an accident, so I am curious if good production code has any chance of trumping internal politics.
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The interesting question now is if they will retain this tool going forward, or replace it with another that is not GPL'd. It certainly sounds like an accident, so I am curious if good production code has any chance of trumping internal politics.
Why not retain it? It was offered for free in the first place.
Re:Give some credit (Score:5, Funny)
This is Slashdot! Everything MS does is bad. Everything, no questions asked! I mean, they won't even answer allegations that they sacrifice babies at the altar.
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If we think of them a little bit as a company and not the anti-RMS, why would they bother now? They're complying, the tool works.... what's the business case? Big companies like to use open source when it's to their advantage. like one vendor I'm familiar with, they are now pushing Linux, Tomcat and many open standards but they're very clearly closed source on top.
I was right for once (Score:4, Insightful)
So it appears to me that we're both right. Microsoft didn't need to fix much, but due to their leading position in an anti-piracy lobbying group, they needed to fix it quickly.
Implications (Score:5, Informative)
I wouldn't want to be the consulting company that provided Microsoft with this code. They're in some deep doo-doo now. Unfortunately, a lot of engineers are so clueless about licensing, as are their managers, that it is really possible that the person who did this didn't know it was a problem.
But this is not anything new for Microsoft. Microsoft started contributing to GCC around 10 years ago, for the former Unix services product. And this really serves their purpose if they are trying to scare people away from the GPL. "Microsoft forced to give up source code."
Where they are really hurting us now is in government policy and patented technology in interoperability facilities. Like the European Interoperability Framework going proprietary, and the MS-patented filesystem in next-generation FLASH devices. Consider stuff like that before you decide they are a "good citizen".
Re:cluess about licensing... (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't buy that excuse. I write code. I don't have to understand the intricate licensing law to know when I've included code that I didn't write. It doesn't take a genius level IQ to know that when I do that (use code I didn't write) I need to tell the person who hired me to write code. Once that happens, it is the responsibility of a manager to find out the licensing issues.
Re:cluess about licensing... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I've done my share of expert witness work (usually on the security side) so no, not surprised. But usually pleading ignorance doesn't necessarily mean there was actual ignorance.
A programmer knows when he didn't write the code.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
More to the point, as a software engineer, or code monkey, or code master, whatever, you should be well aware that if it's code you didn't write, don't use it until you're clear as to the ramifications.
I avoid using any example code I see unless I can understand it and there's a clear statement of "Hey, this is example code, by writing this tutorial, we kind of expect you'll be making a derivative of it."
Treating GPL-licensed code (or some open source license) under the same regard is poor thinking. Passing
...gulp (Score:5, Funny)
Wha wha what just happened?
Someone hold me, I'm scared.
Death of one old bag of baloney? (Score:3, Interesting)
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If I recall correctly, MS at one point tried to say that, if something like this happened, you'd have to release all your source code. Now we find that MS knows that you only have to release the source code of the program in question. Big difference.
I don't believe that's correct. You need to stop infringing the copyright - that means either obey the terms of the license or stop distributing (and deal with the consequences of the limited distribution you already made).
I hope this doesn't help the bogus 'GPL is dangerous, an outside contractor can make you reveal your code' meme to spread.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
[Citation Needed] [Context Needed]
Re:Death of one old bag of baloney? (Score:5, Informative)
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Its a sign of the end... (Score:2)
And now for the Four Horsemen....
Have a candy bar (Score:3, Funny)
"I'm going to take back some of the things I've said about you, Microsoft. You--you've earned it."
New eye advice sought (Score:3, Funny)
"have agreed to release the tool's source code under the terms of GPLv2."
Anyone know where I can buy some new eyes? Mine just exploded.
Contracted to a 3rd party .. Grrrrreaaaattt (Score:2)
so you expect us to install your operating system in computers in corporate environments, government offices, whereas you contracted stuff out to third parties.
just exemplary.
When people say 'Microsoft did this' (Score:2)
and 'Microsoft did that', I think some people forget how big the company is. Yes, the top brass are ultimately and formally responsible for everything the company does, and they set the tone. But its not like its possible for everything that any peon decides to do can get reviewed by a single central authority. This applies, for example, to stupid patents.
The same principle applies to stupid things done by any national government.
Fair Play (Score:2, Interesting)
That's all that need be said. Microsoft realised it was in the wrong, and took steps to correct it. They didn't stonewall, they didn't hide. I must admit to being pleasantly surprised. Microsoft themselves place great importance on respecting software licenses/copyright, and it's nice to see them practice when it comes to other people's copyrights.
Re:Fair Play (Score:4, Funny)
They did "Man up", as it were. Yes, we are all pleasantly surprised. Inspired, I just halted my download of Windows 7, vowing then and there to pay full price.
I'm just curious... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is Microsoft farming out the programming of a relatively simple tool when they have 10s of thousands of programmers and consultants on their payroll? Issues like this are exactly why you shouldn't outsource work when you already have employees that could do the job.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You answered your own question -- it's a "relatively simple tool". The tool has relatively little value-add or innovation compared to their other work. They'd rather spend their employees' time on developing software more core to their business.
The fact that this particular utility isn't particularly core to their business or seen as critically valueable or innovative is evidenced by the quick turnaround in releasing the source code. It's so far from their core business that it's just not worth their dev
obvious! (Score:3, Interesting)
DUH! Easier to gain forgiveness than permission. We know Microsoft knows that well. There was always a chance nobody would notice. It makes me wonder how much other GPL code they've ripped off over the years without getting caught.
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Phil
Re:obvious! (Score:4, Informative)
I can't decide if you're trolling, or naive. Microsoft needs no permission to use GPL'd stuff. Neither does anyone else. It's a copy left. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO USE IT!! There are a few restrictions on giving credit to the owners, releasing source, etc - but they are ALLOWED TO USE IT.
I can't imagine any individual, corporation, group, or consortium who might be denied the right to use GPL code, AS LONG AS they abide by the terms of the license.
By releasing (or making available) the source code, and giving proper credit to the authors, MS complies with the terms of the GPL license.
It's really not that hard to understand, is it?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The main tool out there to do that is from Black Duck, and it's an unmitigated piece of trash that is designed for the sole purpose of scamming stupid CTOs and CEOs.
Their piece of crap database isn't even audited, so it attributes tons of code to people who stole it themselves and lists it under the wrong license. Then, if that wasn't enough, it produces so many false positives that anybody tasked with running it sets it up just enough to appease their incompetent boss while routing the results directly to
Re:How did they miss that? (Score:5, Funny)
How did they miss that?
They used Bing to search for the code, and when it found nothing they assumed the code was original.
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Hell yeah!, what an awesome third party contractor.
Ripping off free software and selling it to corporations as non-free,
closed source software for profit, these fuckers deserve a medal!
Re:a big round of thanks to that outside contracto (Score:4, Funny)
outside contractor, what contractor? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Same reasoning as Vista. Release a bad OS, so the next one looks WAY better.
If you set your expectations low, you can't possibly be disappointed.
Re:A setup? (Score:5, Insightful)
Vista probably cost them billions of dollars in revenue because, had they released a sooner, higher quality OS as their schedule initially dictated, their sales wouldn't have suffered. Not only that, but they'd have had two additional OS releases before Windows 7, or a global recession hurting their first decent OS release in nearly a decade.
Though if you think Microsoft executives seriously looked around the table and laughed at how they fooled everyone releasing a crappy product, I don't know if anything will convince you that you're wrong.
Re:A setup? (Score:5, Insightful)
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a USB/DVD burning tool could hardly be analogized to an accelerator system in a car.
It'd be more equivalent to... I don't know ... a cigarette lighter or something. This is just a utility that MS released to help people be able to burn a Windows 7 iso onto USB/DVD. Especially for use in netbooks and the like, I suppose.
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This is just a utility that MS released to help people be able to burn a Windows 7 iso onto USB/DVD.
From the Annals of Just Another Utility ...
By the time you add the 1001 "tools" that Microsoft offers (tools tucked away on an installation CD, in the various Resource Kits, the Sysinternals collection, etc.), and then add any number of "must have" third-party tools just so you can have a system that does more than open a file or web browser, you might as well have installed Linux distro or FreeBSD and had bo
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If you make a few music/movie downloads and they catch you, the first thing they do is send a letter to your ISP giving a warning to you. So yes, you would just delete it and apologize.
And yes, like the other person said, Microsoft isn't going around suing people for downloading music, movies, or pirated copies of Windows.
Besides, there was a whole article a few days ago about how GPL violations happen very frequently and that politely pointing it out usually solves the problem. It was an accident, not an "
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If they didn't release the code then I'd say that a good old fashioned crucifixion would be in order but as it is, there's no real reason to hit them any more. The code is free like it should have been and that's that.
In so far as a double standard, I think it would be far more sensible to advocate for sane copyright reform rather than resorting to the same tactics the RIAA and MPAA use.
Re:Oh, so it's ok then (Score:4, Insightful)
What if it WAS a mistake? What if Microsoft didn't check the code/programmer claimed it wasn't GPL/whatever?
Because if it was a mistake, they appeared to have been doing the right thing. Furthermore, they weren't even selling this, nor was anyone else. If anything, it was a violation of GPL not copyright stuff.
I had no idea GPL people were so like the RIAA that they would want to "crucify" a company for possibly accidentally using (stealing? slashdot will call using GPL code against GPL license [and giving the result away for free]"stealing" but slashdot won't call downloading songs/movies stealing?) open source code without releasing the resulting open source. Sounds ... very progressive. Encourages people to use GPL. "Hey, use our free software and code! It's great! Use it however you want! But if you don't follow the GPL you are a horrible, horrible company, even worse than people that illegally download copyrighted materials."
I like open source and GPL and all that. I also enjoy MS products. And I don't like double standards. If they knowingly took GPL code, that's bad. I don't like "guilty until proven innocent" nor comparisons of copyright to GPL...
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Well, they should have. It's a generally very bad idea to release software containing somebody else's code without permission.
Try to pull that off with MS code and see how well that goes.
No, it's very
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"I had no idea GPL people were so like the RIAA that they would want to "crucify" a company for possibly accidentally using (stealing? slashdot will call using GPL code against GPL license [and giving the result away for free]"stealing" but slashdot won't call downloading songs/movies stealing?) open source code without releasing the resulting open source. Sounds ... very progressive. "
We are talking about Microsoft here. 'Nuff said.
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Re:Oh, so it's ok then (Score:4, Insightful)
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Except the whole point of the GPL is to make source open, not to bring in cash. Usually, people in favor of the GPL prefer having the source code and settle on that than settling on money. As someone mentionned already, if you start sueing people who use the GPL by accident, and ask for money instead of source code, you'll just prove that people who called the GPL a "virus" were right.
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Actually, your ISP shut off access.
Your ISP got a letter from RIAA or MPAA asking that they tell you to stop it, or turn over your name and address. Your ISP, knowing that BitTorrent also takes a lot of bandwidth anyway, shut you down temporarily and (though they don't honestly care) asked you to delete the file and (they do care about this) never run BitTorrent again. You complied, so MPAA/RIAA and your ISP both win.
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Sadly that is relevant and not enough attention is paid to that problem.
The abridged version is that MS did promise not to sue mono over any patents it owns SO LONG AS IT OWNS THEM. MS can sell those patents to a patent troll voiding the promise.
People have asked for actual licenses but MS and its apologists always reply that the promise is sufficient and that MS does not intend to sell said patents, sure...
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It's twitter, but he got so tired of being -1 that he's stopped bothering logging in to any of his sockpuppets. It's... truly amazing.
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Oh...this isn't "cold day in Hell" type stuff...
If you saw them openly killing Windows and framing in a commercialized version of their own version of WINE sitting atop, say Ubuntu or Fedora/Red Hat... THEN there'd be orders placed for snowplows and thermal underwear to end all orders for it.