Subversive Groups Must Now Register In South Carolina 849
Hugh Pickens writes "The Raw Story reports that terrorists who want to overthrow the United States government must now register with South Carolina's Secretary of State and declare their intentions — or face a $25,000 fine and up to 10 years in prison. The 'Subversive Activities Registration Act' passed last year in South Carolina and now officially on the books states that 'every member of a subversive organization, or an organization subject to foreign control, every foreign agent and every person who advocates, teaches, advises or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States ... shall register with the Secretary of State.'"
not the first (Score:5, Funny)
First and Last solution? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:First and Last solution? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:First and Last solution? (Score:5, Interesting)
I would prefer a constitutional amendment that goes something like this:
Any law which isn't enforced and has no public record of ever having been enforced for a certain period of time, say 20 years or perhaps less, that the law in question simply is null and void.
A constitutional provision is one thing, such as procedures for impeachment or something that is rarely invoked for a good reason, but for laws that impact ordinary citizens, a failure to even enforce these laws (such as the anti-sodomy laws and co-habitation/fornication laws) ought to be simply declared obsolete due to lack of enforcement.
A token enforcement merely to keep the law on the books would not be considered acceptable. A pattern of widespread enforcement of such a law would have to be demonstrated for it to be considered valid under such a provision.
In this particular case with the terrorist registration law, I have my doubts that such a law would ever be proven to be enforced and its only purpose is to expand and exaggerate sentences in an effort to stifle free speech. Simply asking a state officer to testify in court about how many people actually engaged in registration would be sufficient in this case to show non-enforcement of such a law.
Too bad that such a provision or legal concept is not typically a part of common law.
Re:First and Last solution? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:First and Last solution? (Score:4, Funny)
"Any law which isn't enforced and has no public record of ever having been enforced for a certain period of time, say 20 years or perhaps less, that the law in question simply is null and void."
Deputy Bubba: You wanted to see me, Sheriff?
Sheriff Leroy: Yep, Bubba, I just got a call from the state legerslature. It seems our anti-sodomy law is up for renewal.
Deputy Bubba: 'Bout damn time!
Sheriff Leroy: You betcha bygolly! We need to get crackin' on this. We only have a month.
Deputy Bubba: I'll tell the men to be on the lookout for sodomistic behavior.
Sheriff Leroy: Hop to it son. And tell the undercover sting teams to start greasin' up their backsides.
Re:First and Last solution? (Score:5, Funny)
Or, it could be a great defense.
"Your honor, I didn't register as a member of a subversive group, therefore the purpose of my group could not have been to overthrow the government of the United States."
Re:First and Last solution? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll worry about that after you've explained why canibalism and necrophilia should be illegal.
(I'm serious - why should they be illegal?)
Re:First and Last solution? (Score:5, Funny)
As always with a radical problem one needs a radical solution: to periodically take back power through whatever means necessary.
Hey wait a second, did you just advocate rebellion against the government? If you live in South Carolina, you better get your paperwork in order.
Too bad (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Funny)
Too bad England didn't think of this pre-1775. Jjust think we could all be speaking in smashing British accents like James Bond right now...
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Informative)
England did think of it, and they tried to stop the colonists from meeting up, which is precisely why "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" was put into the first amendment.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
And it's exactly that ammendment which this law is blatantly contrary too...
The legislature who passed this might have good intentions, but I hope the courts strike this one down post haste.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Funny)
Can you imagine the intelligence of the voter to which this law was intended to pander? I can just imagine the debate during the next election cycle.
Mah opponent beeleeves that the Subversive Ahctevities Registration Ahct is unconstitutional. Ah beeleeve Ah speak for the GREAT people of South Carolina when Ah ask: 'Why do yoo support the terrorists?'
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Funny)
Debate and oration is very 1950s. This is the age of marketing checklist:
- Tough on terror [CHECK!]
Vote against it? you aren't tough on terror! The commercial will sound like
"Senator Foghorn Leghorn voted AGAINST the Subversive Activities Registration Act, which would have enabled law enforcement to quickly round up terrorists.
Senator Foghorn Leghorn voted AGAINST America.
Vote for America, Vote Elmer Fudd.
Paid for by the people for Elmer Fudd foundation."
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't funny. This is sad. This is how political offices are won in America, especially conservative seats. /Is libertarian
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It is sad when you actually have to cite a reference to a Loony Tunes character.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too bad (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to mention the Fifth Amendment protections against self-incrimination.
Yeah, but the IRS forms have a blank for "Illegal Income" and that has somehow passed constitutional scrutiny. A conviction of the income producing crime is not required.
Criminalizing the failure to disclose criminal activity should be a clear violation of self incrimination protections. The courts let it through by insisting that the failure to incriminate yourself isn't the crime, failure to pay the taxes is. This ignores, of course, the fact that paying a tax on illegal income is by definition an admission of guilt.
This same sort of reasoning could somehow be applied to this law as well.
Not really. In the case of income tax on illegal gains there is no actual statement about how and why those gains were made. Say, I sell weed. I can declare on my taxes that I made $5,000 in illegal income, but I don't have to declare WHAT I did to make that income.
It's up to the police in this case to find out what what I made the money on. It's not actually an admission of guilt to report illegal income, because there is no specific information about what the crime was.
If the police come to your door and ask you what you did to collect the income that you reported, then you just say, "I don't have to answer your questions."
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Somewhere, there's an irony in this being passed by the state that was first to secede from the Union and instigate the Civil War.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
This is South Carolina. It's being passed to set these groups up for state grants, not to get them arrested.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Informative)
Somewhere, there's an irony in this being passed by the state that was first to secede from the Union and instigate the Civil War.
Says the guy advertising a neo-nazi political group in his sig.
(Seriously, go on and look up the traditional definition of the "third position," and read through the A3P's political positions. I'm not calling them Nazis simply for the sake of being hyperbolic. They're one of the few groups that actually makes the law being discussed in TFA seem like a good idea.)
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Somewhere, there's an irony in this being passed by the state that was first to secede from the Union and instigate the Civil War.
No, there is zero irony. It simply highlights the absurdity of the claim that the Confederate states were fighting for freedom. They seceded in an attempt to keep aristocratic rule alive when the rest of the country was turning against it; and even among the slave states, S.C. was always distinguished by the degree to which it worshiped the aristocratic ideal. The American Revolution was not complete until 1865.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean, when we established by violence that the government does not "derive its just powers from the consent of the governed", and people do not have the right to separate their state/colony from a larger empire?
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
England did think of it, and they tried to stop the colonists from meeting up, which is precisely why "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" was put into the first amendment.
And the fact, that it worked, is precisely why they want to take that from us now.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Informative)
Oddly enough North Carolina had a right to revolution written into their constitution. http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Legislation/constitution/article1.html [state.nc.us] (section 3D).
Their neighbors to the south, not so much.
Re:Too bad (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Ironic that this is passed by the state that STARTED THE CIVIL WAR!
Good point. By the same logic of this law, maybe folks should have to register all those Confederate flags they're so fond of down there.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Good point. By the same logic of this law, maybe folks should have to register all those Confederate flags they're so fond of down there.
Wow, I think you're on to the best campaign against this law. Find the application form and start filling it out:
Organization: The Confederacy
Founded: 1861
Members: We don't keep membership records. However, we have our own flags, confederate seal, lots of supporters, we regularly do military training missions under the guise of reenactments and most of all, we're tried it once already. You should probably get all our members to register to risk 10 years in jail.
Re:Too bad (Score:4, Informative)
Ironic that this is passed by the state that STARTED THE CIVIL WAR!
Down here it's called the War of Northern Aggression.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Informative)
In case you didn't notice ... registration is required in South Carolina; the right to revolt is written in the North Carolina State Constitution. North != South.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed. The text of the law says it should not be construed to authorize censorship or infringe upon freedom of speech but I just don't see how you can do that.
This law is a ace up the sleeve for selective prosecution, nothing else.
Not all subversives required to register... (Score:4, Informative)
No Joke (Score:5, Insightful)
I think this is a joke. I highly doubt a group of people willing to kill themselves by crashing planes into buildings would be disueded by the threat of jail time and a fine.
And that, of course, is the entire point of this legislation. The idea is that "subversives" won't register. That way you get to fine and imprison people for belonging to organisations, all the time pretending that you are not infringing on their rights of speech or assembly.
Cute.
Re:No Joke (Score:5, Insightful)
It is also a good law to invoke whenever you want to arrest someone.
Want to put a new party into power and replace the old Washington regime? That sounds like overthrowing to me. What about putting in place a new Jerusalem? Or Kingdom of God?
Re:No Joke (Score:4, Insightful)
It is also a good law to invoke whenever you want to arrest someone.
Isn't that what I meant? And note you don't actually have to do anything that isn't protected by the First. You just have to be a member of an organisation (peaceful assembly), and the organisation has to say (freedom of speech), and nothing more than say, "we should have a revolution and get rid the the US Constitution and especially the First Amendment!" Perhaps there's some poetic justice there. Nonetheless, this act is a try on, which should not survive a constitutional challenge.
Want to put a new party into power and replace the old Washington regime? That sounds like overthrowing to me.
Only if you skip the constitutional requirements for putting a new party into power. If you do so with arms rather than votes, then yes. Changes in government following lawful elections very clearly do not amount to an overthrow of the state.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Right. It doesn't impact terrorists. It impacts citizens who hold some radical views.
They want to form an organization that supports overthrowing the government (without any intention of resorting to terrorism, violence, or other illegal acts) -- voting, or getting people elected to state legislatures to initiate an Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States to call a Convention for proposing Amendments, is a way of overthrowing the government too (peacefully)...
Now suddenly they must register as "terrorists" or face jail.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Interesting)
Obviously such an abuse would not hold up in a court for a moment, but it could sure as hell be used to intimidate people until it's struck down.
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, the law does say it has to be "by force or violence or other unlawful means".
"What country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." -- Thomas Jefferson
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their Constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it." -- Abraham Lincoln
Re:Too bad (Score:5, Funny)
Dissuade
Disuede
Re:Too bad (Score:4, Funny)
No, disuede is two tone leather apparel having a particular napped finish. What you want is dissuede.
Re:Too bad (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The first amendment doesn't end in the air.
Can I mail it in or what? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Can I mail it in or what? (Score:5, Funny)
Do I have to register individually, or am I covered by the slashdot site licence?
Re:Can I mail it in or what? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Anachronistic religious motives for the ban clearly being unconstitutional as per the legal tradition of separation of church and state
It's high time the Sunday Alcohol bans got challenged in a court of law.
Can't there be some commerce clause spin on this? Given that much of Alcohol is produced out of state, there's interstate commerce involved here.
subversive? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:subversive? (Score:5, Funny)
Easy way to "democratically" jail and fine dissent (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't like someone badmouthing the government? Require them to register. Then when they (obviously) don't do it, stick 'em in jail and take their money.
Enjoy your democracy, guys.
Re:Easy way to "democratically" jail and fine diss (Score:4, Insightful)
From jail, with lots of money, paying a team of very good (and very expensive) lawyers, over years, while the matter proceeds through court after court? With no certainty that the SCOTUS, which has approved many an unconstitutional matter, will see things the constitutional way?
Tell you what. You try again. I'll just quietly think my thoughts without involving the whole broken system.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
"every corporation, society, association, camp, group, bund, political party, assembly, body or organization, composed of two or more persons, which directly or indirectly advocates, advises, teaches or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States [or] of this State."
If you advocate the propriety of the people to control their government in a democratic country, you fall under this law. It definitely covers more than planning to take actual action - it also covers advocating, advising or teaching.
Re:Easy way to "democratically" jail and fine diss (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps they need a law that requires registration of fuckwit legislators, so when they pass laws like this we can send them to Gitmo or something.
Re:Easy way to "democratically" jail and fine diss (Score:4, Insightful)
You have to be planning to overthrow the government by violent or unlawful means.
Okay... So you want to overthrow the government by non-violent and lawful means. Therefore, you need to register, because not registering means you are doing so through unlawful means.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If you are a pedo and want to bang a little child, check the box that says "yes", otherwise check "no".
Actually, it's more like saying that, with a footnote: Pedo to be defined as any person who has ever had a thought that could be described as sexual in nature involving any individual under the age of consent, not excluding the thinker, and regardless of the age of the thinker at the time the thought occurred.
Read their definition of subversive. It includes advocating, advising and teaching. So yes, saying you think the government sucks and needs to be taken down would put you afoul of this law, technica
Re:Easy way to "democratically" jail and fine diss (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Easy way to "democratically" jail and fine diss (Score:4, Insightful)
I used to say the same thing, except I've come to realize it's all semantics, and the constitution never meant a damn thing, not since its ratification, not now, not ever.
Awwwww crap! (Score:5, Funny)
I thought my evil master plan for overthrowing the government was PERFECT! Nobody could have known what I was up to!
And now I have to tell them myself?
Oh well...
Re:Awwwww crap! (Score:5, Funny)
FTFA:
By "subversive organization," the law means "every corporation, society, association, camp, group, bund, political party, assembly, body or organization, composed of two or more persons
You'll be just fine if you keep it to yourself.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So basically this is in violation of our right to peaceably assemble. That's only the first amendment, easy to see how they could miss that.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Peaceably assemble... with intent to overthrow the government.
Although there's kind of a Catch 22 opportunity there.
Re:Awwwww crap! (Score:4, Insightful)
How so?
Ghandi got the brits out peaceably.
Re: (Score:3)
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
Hmmmmm
But I still think this is a joke.
Re:Awwwww crap! (Score:4, Informative)
Just too add this would also violate the 5th, admitting one wished to break a law is incriminating himself.
Well... (Score:3, Funny)
The story also states that it only costs $5 to register. At least it's not expensive to get on such an exclusive list!
But if they outlaw secretly being a Terrorist (Score:5, Funny)
Only criminals will secretly be Terrorists. :( ...
PANIC!
That seems a bit Unconstitutional..... (Score:4, Insightful)
Murderers, bank robbers, and rapists too. (Score:5, Funny)
If you intend to do anything illegal you must register. If you litter and have not registered your intention to litter we're going to come down hard on you! Planning to kill your spouse? Register now, and get 20% off your sentence! Planning to rob a bank? Registration before Feb 15th gives you 10% off your sentence. Planning a terrorist act? Just call 1-900-TERR-RIST, and we'll go easy on you if you don't make it right away to your chosen form of heaven.
Seriously, what kind of bass awkwards government scheme is this? If your penalties for commiting a crime are too lax, tighten them. Otherwise expecting people to register their intention of breaking the law (and inciting the overthrow of the government isn't just simple free speech folks. If you think it is maybe you're so messed up this law will work on you) is pure nonsense.
The muppets coming up with this should be....oh wait I'd have to register to say that....
Re:Murderers, bank robbers, and rapists too. (Score:5, Insightful)
(and inciting the overthrow of the government isn't just simple free speech folks. If you think it is maybe you're so messed up this law will work on you)
_inciting_ the overthrow isn't free speech, no. But _advocating_ it certainly is. And that's one of the things this law requires registering. And "subversive" is a quite vague word - by some definitions simply saying "Obama is a terrible president" could be considered subversive.
Reminds me of the many sedition acts we've had here in the U.S. - all of which were eventually ruled unconstitutional.
Uh oh (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm $5 charge..... What do you want to bet the Republican and Democratic parties, Tea Party, Police Departments, Exxon, Greenpeace, Chase Bank, Hillary Clinton, Rush Limbaugh, Goldman Sachs, everyone's ex's and pretty much everyone else anyone dislikes all find 'helpful' people registering on their behalf? If this list feeds to the no fly list there's going to be hell to pay.
So, do we get immunity? (Score:3, Interesting)
Like paying an illegal drug tax (Score:5, Informative)
This is just like those "marijuana tax stamp" acts. Laws like that typicly just end up being used to tack on extra years when you get convicted, and/or to assist the prosecutors since the more laws you break the easier it is to convict. IMHO, it's a waste of time since any serious act (ie, assault, murder) comitted by such a group is going to get them life or worse (does SC have the death penalty?)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, "tax stamps" was exactly what I was thinking. Ironically, Mississippi used the same system for alcohol when it was still a "dry" state.
When they began "issuing" and requiring them in Minnesota, they actually sold a couple of dozen of them. They made a big point of being able to buy them anonymously but glossed over the fact they were sold in a government building which was easily monitored by law enforcement. I don't remember any prosecutions making the news but I'm sure from time to time they beat
One state down, 49 more to go.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can see other states passing laws such as this. I would think that if you were planning on overthrowing the government, doing so "legally" by registering your intent probably wouldn't seem like the brightest idea. This is akin to requiring bank robbers to register before they go rob a bank. Who in their right mind would do anything? Also notice that it says on the clause:
"(1) "Subversive organization" means every corporation, society, association, camp, group, bund, political party, assembly, body or organization, composed of two or more persons, which directly or indirectly advocates, advises, teaches or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States, of this State or of any political subdivision thereof by force or violence or other unlawful means;
"advocate"........."advise".......... These words are the result of sharing your opinion. You "advocate" or you "advise" somebody on a matter. This basically makes thought and speech crimes if you do not register to speak your opinion. If we share opinions then we need to register. I honestly cannot fathom what crime this useless law is meant to deter from, nor see how it will protect anyone from anything. Any sort of restrictions on free speech and the right to assembly (also attacked here) are movements towards taking power and freedoms away from people. My oh my how utterly un-american we have so become........the sad part is that the people that vote these laws into action consider themselves patriots (notice how patriotism is explicitly exempt from this law, which opens up all sorts of avenues......militias are patriotic too........) I hope they gave George and Tom lots of space to roll in their coffins......................
America.....pure irony at its best!
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"(1) "Subversive organization" means every corporation, society, association, camp, group, bund, political party, assembly, body or organization, composed of two or more persons, which directly or indirectly advocates, advises, teaches or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of ...
It does seem funny til you learn how law is used (Score:5, Insightful)
These sort of laws always seem so ridiculous until you learn how criminal law comes into application in real practice. Laws like this one enable police organizations to expand their scope of suspicions to an area of law that is less scrutinized that violent crimes. This type of law is also used to enhance punishments during investigations for the cases where say, the police are pretty sure these guys were planning to do some terrorizing but couldn't prove it but with this law they can show the far more vague notion of being a group with desires for overthrowing gov't. (Wouldn't many republicans count? hehe, anyway...) so they can put them in jail or otherwise limit their freedom of movement and privacy while continuing to investigate and try to prove more malicious actions or intent.
So the law might seem ridiculous but it's exactly this kind of law that is constantly misused and abused in our legal/police system every day, both for good and bad.
On a related note, many traffic codes and laws are created for the purpose of enhancing fines and punishments allowable to people who cause accidents. Consider any traffic law that seems impossible to catch a person breaking, then realize that when that person crashes or causes a crash, any number of such laws can be applied, merely with witness testimony, to enhance fines and so on. For example, many states have had laws for years that require you use your hands for nothing besides driving. This is classically used to assert fault on, say, a woman doing her make-up while driving or a driver distracted by children. They just need an eye witness to corroborate for determination of fault.
Re:It does seem funny til you learn how law is use (Score:3, Insightful)
Or in other words give them rights to snoop where they have no right to be snooping. When the person breaks the law, punish them suitably for it. end of story. Being a group who desires to overthrow the government is legal. Deal with it. You do remember how this country was founded right?
They seem ridiculous because they are. They admit how faulty our system is to need such things. There is no way to abuse something for good. If you abuse the law you are doing something ethically wrong. Because by so doi
New laws (Score:5, Interesting)
Is it just me or is there an increase in the number of new laws (not just in the US) that basically state that it's illegal to do illegal stuff? I'm trying to find the rational explanation for that, but so far I've failed.
Re:New laws (Score:4, Insightful)
except this law is saying its illegal to do legal things
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Perhaps the future is to have a whole set of different laws which are applicable to different situations: crime + netbook; crime + laptop; crime + multi-processor desktop machine with at leat 1GB video card memory; or even crime + beowulf cluster.
Lobbyist Groups? (Score:4, Interesting)
From TFA - this is any group that "directly or indirectly advocates, advises, teaches or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States".
Lobbyist groups are all about controlling the government (via substantial bribes). Does this mean they need to register?
You mean you can become a subversive for only $5? (Score:3, Funny)
How awesome is that! Lets all go register!
It used to be you have to have a following buy guns or spend years spewing wacky ideas
Now you can just fill out a form and pay $5.
Just a wee bit unconstitutional (Score:5, Interesting)
We aren't going to take this! (Score:4, Interesting)
Anarchists, unite!
What about Confederates? (Score:4, Insightful)
I drove through South Carolina not long ago. You see lots of rebel flags flying, especially in the rural areas. Is that subversive? Is the state going to go after them?
It's time (Score:5, Insightful)
I For One ... (Score:3, Funny)
Why didn't the federal government think of this? We could have already had a beowulf cluster of airport security checkpoint imaging machines matching pre-flight body scans with names from the registration list.
Can I register from a distance? (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in Nebraska, but I'd like to register anyway. I have advocated "controlling and conducting" the government by means of encouraging others to vote for the candidates I like and by donating time and money to their campaigns. By South Carolina's standard, I'm a subversive. Would I get a registration form I could hang on my wall next to my college diploma, a share of SCOX stock, and a Church of the SubGenius ordination certificate?
Actually, I'm kind of serious about that. In a dream world, I'd like to see a few hundred million people register as South Carolina subversives.
The feds beat SC to it a long time ago..... (Score:4, Insightful)
The feds beat them to it a long time ago..... but they will probably just throw you in prison for 20 years. Amazing that I can be jailed for this longer than I can be jailed for attempted murder. Just for ADVOCATING revolution. This is disgusting. I feel a storm brewing.
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > 2385
2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
Did they just outlaw civics teachers? (Score:4, Insightful)
'every member of a subversive organization, or an organization subject to foreign control, every foreign agent and every person who advocates, teaches, advises or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States ... shall register with the Secretary of State.'
Do they ever even consider running these things past a high school English teacher or equivalent before they put them to a vote?
Did the TV stations and parties register already? (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean what is the definition of “subversive”? “Does not conform to party lines, like in China”?
By my definition, all TV stations and political parties are subversive and perverse. Now what?
Political parties (Score:4, Insightful)
" every person who advocates, teaches, advises or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government"
Political parties certainly advocate and advise the controlling and conducting of the government. I hope all those politicians are registering.
Secessionism (Score:4, Funny)
What is this world coming to?
George Soros (Score:4, Interesting)
Any chance George Soros would count as a foreign organization plotting the overthrow of the US Gov't?
Just a thought...
Any reason to think this would withstand a constitutional challenge?
what the applications really look like (Score:4, Funny)
Dear South Carolina,
As requested, we hereby notify you that we are a "Subversive organization" --a corporation, society, association, camp, group, bund, political party, assembly, body or organization, composed of two or more persons. We hope to directly or indirectly advocate, advise, teach or practice the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government the State of South Carolina and any political subdivision thereof by unlawful means.
Specifically, we wish to advocate doing so by (1) collecting money from business organizations, then (2) using this money to support the campaign efforts of a sufficient number of elected officials to obtain majority influence over the elected branches of the Government of South Carolina. We will solicit and accept donations from corporations subject to foreign control, such as Sonoco Products, SCANA Corporation, Bowater, Inc., and other corporate entities with major investments in both South Carolina and the rest of the world. They do not have to be Fortune 500 companies! We're willing to include profitable corporations of any size, regardless of the national allegiances of their stockholders, board members, or executives.
We will, by funding the continuation of the careers of elected officials in the State of South Carolina, hope to directly or indirectly influence them to pursue policies favorable to the business interests of our donors, particularly when these interests conflict with the rights provided in the constitutions of the State of Carolina and the United States. As we anticipate that these conflicts will be of a constitutional nature, this should suffice to be unlawful enough to warrant registration under your recent legislation. Hopefully you will find this suitably subversive.
Included with our registration fee you will find a 15% gratuity. Please consider this a token of our appreciation of your ongoing efforts to make the realization of our goals easier.
Looking forward to seeing you at the President's Day golf outing. Looks like the weather will keep us in the clubhouse!
Toodles,
-The Old Boy Network
Mod story down (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Republican Party... (Score:5, Informative)
...is currently planning on overthrowing the existing government of the United States. Have they registered?
Hahaha. If you bothered to read the statute [scstatehouse.gov], there is a useful clarification (emphasis added):
"(1) 'Subversive organization' means every corporation, society, association, camp, group, bund, political party, assembly, body or organization, composed of two or more persons, which directly or indirectly advocates, advises, teaches or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States, of this State or of any political subdivision thereof by force or violence or other unlawful means;"