$1M Prize For Finding Cause of Unintended Acceleration 690
phantomfive writes "Edmunds Auto has announced that it will be offering a $1 million prize to anyone who can find the cause of unintended acceleration. As Wikipedia notes, this is a problem that has plagued not only Toyota, but also Audi and other manufacturers. Consumer Reports has some suggestions all automakers can implement to solve this problem, including requiring brakes to be strong enough to stop the car even when the accelerator is floored."
Forget money (Score:5, Funny)
Make the reward information on something related to Portal or Half-Life. Seriously, the guys on Valve's forums will quickly solve any puzzle thrown at them if there's the slightest prospect it'll lead to information on a new game.
I've found a beautiful explanation for this (Score:5, Funny)
... but unfortunately I'm speeding to my death as I type.
Re:I've found a beautiful explanation for this (Score:5, Funny)
Last Post!
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... but unfortunately I'm speeding to my death as I type.
Quick! Tell me and I'll split the million with you!
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he has just been split into millions alright.
Re:I've found a beautiful explanation for this (Score:4, Funny)
No, no!
When you're speeding to death the first thing you do is update your facebook status or post it to twitter...
"The" cause (Score:2, Insightful)
Okay, I'll save them a million right here. "The" cause is that humans make mistakes. Cars are designed, assembled, and operated by humans.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"The" cause (Score:5, Funny)
To be fair though, the ZX-10 is designed for queers and tarts; it's necessary to be able to stop with a pinky finger so that you can wiggle your other fingers and coo "Helloooo, sailor" at passing twinks.
-Mod hints: -1 Troll, +1 Informative.
It's easy to stop a car. (Score:2)
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Would you like to drive next to (or behind) a car that is able to eject it's axles at, say, 60 MPH? Sounds like a suicide to me
Unnecessarily (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmmm.... (Score:4, Insightful)
How about some sort of a mechanical linkage between the throttle body and the pedal....oh wait...where have I seen this before?
How the idea of "drive by wire" became popular is beyond me. There are some things that need to remain simple, and in human control. Steering, braking, throttle, and gear selection should never be done fully by electronics and remain in the drivers hands...along with the ability to kill power to the engine for that matter.
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It still happens with a mechanical throttle though ... twice, to me.
First time was when the clip holding the outer at the carbie fractured; the outer pushed forwards into the throttle arm and opened it all the way when I lifted my foot off the accelerator. The second was a worn and frayed inner; it jammed when I accelerated away from an intersection. Both happened on the same stretc
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First time was when the clip holding the outer at the carbie fractured; the outer pushed forwards into the throttle arm and opened it all the way when I lifted my foot off the accelerator. The second was a worn and frayed inner; it jammed when I accelerated away from an intersection. Both happened on the same stretch of road, oddly enough.
And then you presumably shifted into neutral or low gear and/or stopped the engine and stopped the car. After opening the hood you saw a broken clip so you knew why it happened and what to do to fix your car.
You can also inspect the parts to see if they are in good shape (I doubt that the clip broke suddenly and did not have any marks of a fracture before).
The cars with the problem described in the article could not be stopped by turning off the engine (looks like the engine did not turn off) or stepping on
Solution (Score:3, Insightful)
We already have a solution - Cut the power when the break is pushed.
What I struggle to understand is why this isn't a legal requirement on all new drive-by-wire cars?
And where is the source? (Score:3, Insightful)
> What I struggle to understand is why this isn't a legal requirement on all new drive-by-wire cars?
You would think that there would also be a requirement that the source code be released for review to anyone who cares.
Re:Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
We already have a solution - Cut the power when the break is pushed
How do you left-foot brake if pressing the brake cuts the power?
You don't. It's not something you should be doing anyway.
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Why shouldn't you be doing it? That's not what I was taught when racing cars in my younger years...
One of the problems these days is people aren't taught how to drive properly - they have to hold the steering wheel in the wrong place (ten-to-two when it should be quarter-to-three), they're told to only ever hit the brakes to slow down when they should be changing down a gear and using engine braking to keep the car under control and pre-load suspension and brakes more safely, they're taught never to cross t
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Oh sure, it might be something to do when racing. But if you do any racing whatsoever it should be on a track and with cars which don't have anti-driver-stupidity protections anyway.
Re:Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
Why shouldn't you be doing it? That's not what I was taught when racing cars in my younger years...
Because it's a dangerous technique that is used by racing drivers to get some extra speed out of their car. When you are on the road you should not be trying to get that extra speed, you should be trying to get the extra safety. Now grow up.
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No, just two different driving styles. And maybe, just maybe, you could disengage the engine power cutoff and all other such devices when going racing and re-engage it when returning to public roads. Because, after all, it's pretty unreasonable to demand that all cars should be made with the needs of racers in mind.
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If you want to learn to properly use the techniques described, I'd recommend joining an advanced driving group, such as the Institute of Advanced Motorists [wikipedia.org] Their testing is performed by a serving or retired police officer who holds a Poli
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Unfortunately there are situations where you do need both the engine and the brakes at the same time. Try getting out of a parking spot on a steep hill without hitting the car behind and in front of you. It's a balancing act. Clearly not necessary in Kansas.
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That's what the handbrake is for.
I live on a hill that has had the fence at the bottom of the street replaced at least twice, and the handrail outside my place replaced once. Since just before Christmas alone. It might just be quite steep, and I may just know what I'm talking about with a hill start.
Handbrake? (Score:3, Informative)
Clearly these cars are possessed. (Score:2, Funny)
The last words coming out of the stereo were "Good night, asshole."
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Give us the source (Score:3, Informative)
Brakes! (Score:3, Insightful)
"... including requiring brakes to be strong enough to stop the car even when the accelerator is floored."
Yikes. Isn't that always the case, or are they really selling cars in the US with brakes that aren't able to do this? Just for the record, lack of this ability would basically mean that the car can accelerate faster than it can decelerate, and most cars accelerate pretty darn slow.
If your brakes can't do this, get them the fsck fixed. They're broken.
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Uhhhh... I believe you fail at basic physics. If you can plonk both feet on the pedals and not accelerate, then the breaks can excerpt more force than the engine can (otherwise you'd be accelerating). Given that force equals mass times acceleration, breaks that can excerpt more force than your accelerator will obviously decelerate you faster than your accelerator will accelerate you.
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Yes. And I'm saying that any car that can't do this is not roadworthy and needs to see a mechanic immediately. Brake systems of basically any modern car are strong enough to do that if properly maintained. Sure, it'll possibly kill the engine and the transmission, but the car won't move.
All cars already have this system (Score:3, Insightful)
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Having BEEN in the situation myself, I can tell you that switching to neutral was the LAST thing I thought of. When you're sitting minding your own business at a red light and suddenly your car flares to life doing 60 mph in a couple of seconds, You're really much more focused on trying to stop the car, not the transfer of power from the engine through the transmission.
On a sidenote: Cutting power to the engine is ALSO a bad idea, at least if you happen to have power steering. Or so I discovered.
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This might explain why the issue has shown up more in the US than elsewhere. It countries where most drivers have a manual transmission (as in the UK), when you're stopped you've either got your foot on the clutch or the transmission in neutral, and when under power you can always disconnect the engine by stamping on the clutch.
1 Million Sounds pretty cheap (Score:2)
Considering the cost of the recalls have had a couple of extra digits this sounds like a pretty cheap bounty.
AWESOME CONTEST!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
What was that? No?
Didn't think so.
Re:AWESOME CONTEST!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
I would be more interested in seeing the wiring diagram. My guess is that there is no redundancy in the throttle position system and it's not closed loop. There should be 4 throttle position switches, 2 in the gas pedal and 2 on the throttle body. The ECU should do a consistency check between the 2 signals coming from the pedal and a check between the 2 signals coming from the throttle body. If it detects two different signals coming from the pedal, or two different signals coming from the throttle body, it should go into limp mode.
This is how all VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) cars are designed.
From what I have read, the Toyotas work on the honor system. The ECU trusts the signal coming from the pedal with no way of knowing if the signal was generated by a short circuit, interference, etc.
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Like many onboard automobile sensors, they are also completely isolated from the vehicle ground. To reduce the potential for interference or mistakes, they operate at different voltages. The first sensor, known as ACCEL POS #1, has a nominal voltage range from 0.5 volts to 1.1 volts at idle and 2.5 volts to 4.5 volts at wide-open-throttle (WOT). The second sensor, ACCEL POS #2, delivers from 1.2 volts to 2.0 volts at idle and 3.4 volts to 5.0 volts at WOT. Why such a wide range of permissible voltages? The engine computer (ECM) recalibrates the sensor regularly, every time you start the car and the ECM goes through its power-on self-test.
Both accelerator-pedal-position Hall-effect sensors have to agree fairly closely, or the ECM will go into its limp-home mode, which turns on the Check Engine light and sets a trouble code.
There's more. If Toyota's engine-management scheme is anything like that of most other car companies, firmware inside the ECM also monitors the airflow into the engine, the throttle blade position and engine rpm, and calculates backwards to what the throttle pedal position should be. Any discrepancy, and a trouble code is set, the Check Engine light on the dash goes on, and you're dialing the service manager to make an appointment.
Bottom line: The system is not only redundant, it's double-redundant. The signal lines from the pedal to the ECM are isolated. The voltages used in the system are DC voltages—any RF voltages introduced into the system, by, say, that microwave oven you have in the passenger seat, would be AC voltages, which the ECM's conditioned inputs would simply ignore. Neither your cellphone nor Johnny's PlayStation have the power to induce much confusion into the system.
These throttle-by-wire systems are very difficult to confuse—they're designed to be robust, and any conceivable failure is engineered to command not an open throttle but an error message.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html [popularmechanics.com]
Misleading summary (Score:3, Interesting)
Almost all cars generate braking forces far in excess of whatever the engine is capable of putting out. Adequate brake torque isn't the problem here. If the brakes have to resist the the torque input, then their effectiveness will obviously be diminished.
The proposal of having engine power being cut off when the brakes are applied seems to be sensible, however there are certain situations where you will need both the engine power and brakes on at the same time. Such as starting from a stop on a hill. So the solution isn't that simple. The easiest thing would be to either install an switch that trips past an certain amount of brake travel, or to sense the line pressure. They can use that data and determine how hard the operator is trying to brake, along with the vehicle's current state, is it stationary, or moving, and if so, how fast? They can use that to generate parameters to decide when and if to cut out engine power. At high brake pressures, and moving at high speeds, one would not be expect to continue to accelerate. At low to moderate pressures and being stationary or barely moving, engine power should not be cut off.
Another thing they could do is install a sensor and determine if a foot is present on the accelerator or not, specifically in non-cruise conditions.
Some people apparently had trouble shifting into neutral, but that should not happen at all. I don't know if it's an issue with the transmission trying to block that action, or if it was not able to mechanically disengage due to the engine accelerating. In either case, they should change the shifter from an mechanically controlled operation to an electronic one. Being controlled electronically also makes it easier to move the shifter. If the car is shifted into neutral, that's a fairly clear indicator that the ECM should override the pedal and drop to idle, and shift into neutral.
I think it would help if there was a verbal and textual feedback system to aid the driver along with a command system.
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Also, if they increase the power of the brakes, then won't that have a knock-on affect on the tyres? Won't they have to increase their quality or find people are locking them up more frequently?
What's with these drive by wire cars? (Score:2)
What's the appeal of these drive-by-wire cars?
Automatic transmissions I can understand. I don't have one, but I can understand why some people do. But why are people making cars with as little mechanical linkage between the controls and the car as possible? It seems like it's often more expensive and dangerous. What do you get out of it?
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Feather-light accelerator pedal (I personally hate it, but it might be something that someone wants).
There might be other reasons, but I'm not very sure about them. Better in an accident maybe?
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If done correctly it is not more dangerous. mechanical cables and linkages fail too. What you get out of it is greater flexibility in the design and added control that lets the designer improve efficiency. for example it is generally better to ramp the throttle open rather than snap the butterfly open -- snapping it open causes a sudden loss of vacuum in the manifold which kills airflow for a fraction of a second. You'll get better fuel economy and the engine performance will be improved. Coming in th
I KNOW I KNOW GIMME GIMME (Score:2)
Well, I have the solution... (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't know the cause, but to fix it, push down on that third pedal. It disconnects the engine from the wheels.
You don't have one? Oh... Hmm... Evolution at work. Better luck next time!
Kill Switch? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously - an Off switch within emergency reach of the driver - how complex a concept is that?
OTOH, what are these cars doing with such massive embedded systems in them? I've seen numbers in the tens of millions of lines of computer code being bandied around as indicators of their size and complexity - WTF does a *car* need all that computing power for? I've driven dozens of cars without a single microchip in them - they started, they stopped, they did everything you'd reasonably expect a piece of personal transport to do. What does adding all that complexity get you, apart from a car only officially licenced and approved dealers can work on because nobody else has the diagnostic software...? Oh wait...
Never mind.
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I've seen numbers in the tens of millions of lines of computer code being bandied around as indicators of their size and complexity - WTF does a *car* need all that computing power for?
Having spoken to a friend who writes embedded automotive code for a living, it seems almost all of that is for diagnostic purposes. It's so that any idiot at a garage can plug in a machine that'll tell him precisely what's wrong with your car.
I also think that's a severe overestimate. AIUI, most modern cars have either 2 or
Re:Kill Switch? (Score:4, Insightful)
These things are really saving lives by not slamming into trees when your car would suddenly start spinning on a slippery surface, as it would when you did not have ESC installed.
(Anti-lock braking [wikipedia.org] is an older technology, which also needs computing power, but this thing is actually needed to achieve ESC. My car only has this ABS, since it's a fairly cheap model)
I wouldn't be suprised if there are more very usefull things in a modern car that need that kind of computing power.
Brakes strong enough (Score:2)
Ignition break switch (Score:2)
Years ago when I was a young geek my dad was out in his boat and got chucked out when he hit a wave. The boat circled him for a while until he got a hand on the fuel hose and tugged it loose.
So the boat went back to the home workshop and acquired a reed switch and a magnet on a short length of rope. The idea is that the ignition won't work unless the magnet is attached to the body of the outboard motor. The magnet is attached to you.
So I think every power vehicle should have a convenient way fo switching it
Easiest fix -- "it's not a bug, it's a feature" (Score:5, Funny)
"This Corolla comes with Spontaneous Drag Race Mode standard, making it the most exciting car in its class!"
Kinda Obvious (Score:2)
Here's a concept. If a drive-by-wire system must be installed, find an analog solution instead of having it controlled by software. Computers are great and all but they shouldn't have this level of control on something that can so easily cause mayhem. The technology might be there, but the quality control isn't.
Ultimately this problem isn't that mysterious. Toyota made a mistake and tried to cover it up instead of admitting they had a serious flaw and taking the appropriate steps. It's all greed and individ
Requiring strong brakes? (Score:3, Informative)
However, that's assuming they are operating properly... If they're defective, doesn't matter how powerful they were designed for... I used to have a 300ZX with rather beefy brakes, and when the master cylinder started leaking the brakes got rather weak. I probably would have had a hard time holding back the engine in the 5 miles or so I drove it after noticing it but before getting it fixed.
Now, if the car computer can disable the foot and parking brakes, that's another matter entirely. Usually the parking brake is an entirely different system from the brake pedal, using a cable instead of hydraulics. Because there's no booster it can take significant effort to get a lot of braking force, but I'd expect you could overcome the engine with the parking brake unless there are mechanical issues, though some may find it difficult or impossible to apply enough force to a hand brake to overcome the engine, particularly if going down hill. So there still could be some cases, particularly with a computer in the mix, where strong brakes can't be operated effectively enough to overcome the engine.
Sean
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PEBSAP
It's the computer (Score:3, Interesting)
Not that long ago an Airbus plane flying from Brazil disintegrated over the Atlantic Ocean due to uncontrolled acceleration.
Several years ago a BMW model that runs on an embedded version of Microsoft Windows screwed up so bad it locked the passangers inside the car, and people were blaming Microsoft for the mishap.
Problem can happen anywhere --- from bugs to deficiency in programming language (embedded programming included), to the lack of thorough verifications (verification itself is extremely complicated
Re:Microsoft had a solution (Score:5, Funny)
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Hmmm....the only problem with neutral is that in a lot of vehicles the transmission is no longer physically connected to the shift lever either. The electronics in those fail as well and then what do you do? It happened to me; luckily I was just starting off and the tranny was stuck in 1st, even though I had it in drive.
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Don't you mean... (Score:3, Insightful)
That the main problem is the American press being influenced by the Government trying to create mass hysteria? The Government DOES own quite a large stake in GM.
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But those of us who CAN drive usually have the sense to want more brakes than the "barely able to stop once, much less handle a downhill mountain road" rubber bands that seem to be the common equipment on mainstream cars.
BTW, can someone actually name a car sold in the last 5 years that cannot stop, even against full engine power?
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About time car drivers had something to keep them awake.
That's what the 50 buttons bluetooth enabled media center controller on the steering wheel is for.
Right answer (Score:2)
That, or turning the car off. Heck, there's always "the other way of stopping": throw it in reverse!
Re:Right answer (Score:4, Informative)
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This is false.
Some -drivers- are uneducated and instinctively feel that they would be unable to shift into neutral so they interpret the higher threshold of force required to shift gears as indication that it is not possible.
For example, the car that CHP Officer Mark Saylor was killed, a Lexus, in is absolutely positively known to be able to shift to neutral at high speed. So why didn't a supposedly trained police officer, who should be trained in all sorts of driving techniques, plow into the back of anoth
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1. Push the clutch pedal
2. Shift into neutral
3. Press brake pedal
4. Car stops
The process is independent from the gas pedal.
A car that has manual transmission but will not allow you to complete the described process would not be allowed on the streets, IMO.
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You can't shift a Toyota Auris (Corolla hatch in Australia) with manual transmission into neutral while there is high torque on the gearbox (rapid acceleration or engine braking) without first stepping on the clutch. Stepping on the clutch does, of course, cut said torque immediately. Just to make it clear, the interlock only prevents you from shifting out of gear without using the clutch - use the clutch and you'll be fine.
I can, however, attest that there is some degree of quirkiness in the cruise contr
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If you have a car that has an automatic transmission, putting it into neutral while driving is a bad idea and it wouldn't surprise me if ALL automatics stopped the driver from doing so. The reason is that auto gearboxes have an oil pump that's driven by the engine. When you stop driving the gear box from the engine and start driving it from the wheels, the gear box quickly heats up and I suppose could even seize with potentially nasty consequences.
Try Googling "why can't i tow an automatic car" or something
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In Australia, it's a legal requirement that an automatic gearbox has no interlocks preventing the driver from shifting from a driving gear to neutral. You don't even need to press the shift button to shift to neutral. As long as you don't actually switch the engine off, there will be enough oil circulation to keep the gearbox happy while you fly on inertia. Shifting to neutral and switching the engine off would likely cause damage if you were travelling at high speed.
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Shifting to neutral and switching the engine off would likely cause damage if you were travelling at high speed.
No, it doesn't. Ask any automatic transmission repair guy. Unless you're going to coast for more than about 10 miles (probably impossible unless you're driving down a mountain slope) then nothing bad is going to happen.
Where are people coming up with this nonsense?
The worst that happens from turning the engine off is that you lose power steering assist, and after a couple of applications of the brakes you lose the power brake boost.
That's not how an automatic works (Score:3, Informative)
If you have a car that has an automatic transmission, putting it into neutral while driving is a bad idea and it wouldn't surprise me if ALL automatics stopped the driver from doing so. The reason is that auto gearboxes have an oil pump that's driven by the engine. When you stop driving the gear box from the engine and start driving it from the wheels, the gear box quickly heats up and I suppose could even seize with potentially nasty consequences.
Try Googling "why can't i tow an automatic car" or something like that
Nonsense. No such rapid heating occurs.
The pump on an automatic transmission is driven directly by the torque converter shell, which is driven directly by the engine crankshaft.
So, the only way to stop the pump is to stop the engine. Shifting to neutral does not do that.
Even if the engine were stopped, the transmission doesn't suddenly lose all of it's lubricant - there is still fluid in the bearings and bushings and you're safe to coast for many many miles. The rules about not towing an automatic withou
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That's asinine.
Being able to shift to neutral is a required safety feature. Because all drive-by-wire vehicles are recent in design, you will not find a single one that doesn't allow shifting to neutral at any speed and is legal to sell in the US.
Furthermore, you realize you just made the claim that people tried to "turn the key off" and were unsuccessful? What kind of world do you live on? Anybody who tried to turn the key off would have found themselves moving at highway speeds with dramatically decreased
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I'd rather be dealing with a hard-to-turn car at a constant-but-reducing rate of speed than a car I can steer just fine as it accelerates uncontrollably.
Because then I CAN STEP ON THE BRAKES AND THEY'LL HAVE EFFECTIVENESS.
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Have you ever tried it? In any sane car (and I except 2 tonne SUV monstrosities) you don't need power steering to steer effectively except at very low speed.
Brakes might be more of an issue, but even after turning off the engine, there is usually enough stored potential energy in the servo reservoir for a minute or two of braking.
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That explains everything- Microsoft must have been involved in the design of the car software.
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As someone else said, shifting just sends a signal to the transmission. You're not directly controlling any gears. The transmission won't go into neutral or reverse at a high speed probably because of safety protocols in the software. The people that testified said they tried exactly this and it didn't stop the acceleration.
So you could argue that the software should allow this and let the engine rev and let whatever happen.
-John
Re:Idiocy. (Score:4, Informative)
Being able to shift to neutral is a required safety feature. I can't imagine where "he couldn't do it!!!1111oneoneone" got started.
The Lexus ES-350, the vehicle CHP Officer Mark Saylor died in, does not have electronic shifters. Even if it did, electronic shifters allow gear shifting under speed. In fact, they do so without the natural increase in force necessary for non-electronic shifters to shift gears while under speed.
This is something you can actually test, it won't hurt the vehicle if you don't let it revv for very long. Accerlate on the freeway, shift to neutral without ceasing acceleration. Most vehicles will require more than normal force to change gears but will do so without complaint or problem. The exceptions are the vehicles that will act entirely as they do all the time, because they're by-wire themselves. Do, however, stop accelerating before shifting back.
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As someone else said, shifting just sends a signal to the transmission. You're not directly controlling any gears.
Obviously not true of manual transmissions though, or has Toyota been putting out those fake manual transmissions some car manufacturers are convinced we want?
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This is why I am not driving a car that will kill me if it bluescreens.
Clutch pedal and gearshift, mechanically linked to the transmission. No goofy electronic key fob -- I want a mechanical action that will open the circuit to the spark plugs (or fuel injectors, or something suitably effective).
Re:You can NOT "just put it in neutral"... (Score:5, Informative)
For the millionth time, you CAN put these cars into neutral at speed. I've personally done so. Your explanation of how transmissions work is not correct.
Re:You can NOT "just put it in neutral"... (Score:5, Insightful)
For the millionth time, you CAN put these cars into neutral at speed. I've personally done so.
...And releasing the accelerator will mean the engine car slows down. I've personally done that.
Since the car's electronics are malfunctioning, I think that assuming that the various systems controlled by the electronics would work as usual is making a rather large assumption.
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If you shift to neutral while driving a car that is not a run-away Toy-Yoda (never liked them anyway), and you pushing the accelerator, then the engine itself will rev up to its maximum rotations, it's true, but as long as the clutch is not engaged your engine will be fine for a while, or completely fine if the rev limiter kicks-in (either the carburetor or the fuel injector, or the actual limiter device) and will reduce the amount of fuel flowing to the engine or will even shut down the ignition. Just be
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What you _can_ do, at least in the case of these Toyotas, is hit the brake. The sticky gas pedal on the Toyotas is a mechanical issue, not an electronic one, and pushing the brake real hard causes the electronics to cut the gas.
In other words, electronics saving you from mechanical failure.
Assuming the information sent from Toyota isn't a blatant lie, obviously.
Re:You can NOT "just put it in neutral"... (Score:4, Insightful)
From my reading, pushing the brakes (yes, even real hard) does not cause the electronics to cut the gas in Toyotas -- this is one of the usability problems in Toyotas, so to speak. However, in all tests, the brakes in Toyotas are able to overpower the engine, although it might take a bit longer to stop than normal.
I believe in the future Toyota plan to introduce an engine cut-off feature when the brakes are applied hard.
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Why?
If the parts are made in China and not meeting standards, then that's a failure by Toyota and Audi to inspect and qualify the parts properly. It's their choice to move manufacturing or purchasing to other locations, and with that choice comes different requirements for quality control. They know that.
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Some of those accelerator parts are made in the USA, some in Japan.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/30/business/main6158199.shtml [cbsnews.com]
Is Toyota's acceleration problem happening in significant numbers elsewhere in the world? Or is this limited to the USA?
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maybe because voting algorithms that only have two voters are total fail?
No, it's not. In an electronic voting system with two voters, if they do not agree, you throw an error then safe the system and shut down. Two voters is enough to know you have a failure; but, not enough to continue operating.
Re:Million Dollar Answer (Score:5, Interesting)
That's what i'd be putting my money on for 99% of the cases of short unexplained bursts of acceleration. The longer ones (eg where the driver has enough time to call the police) might actually be faults with the car, but incidents of that are so rare compared to other deaths on the road that it's hardly worth spending time on.
I've done the opposite before - I put my foot on what I thought was the accelerator but was actually the brake. The car didn't go faster so I pressed harder and nearly planted my face on the steering wheel! I can easily understand how the more unfortunate case would happen for a few seconds (which is plenty enough time to have disasterous results).
An easy fix would be to have a 'dead' spot on the accelerator right at the end of the travel, so that the 'foot to the floor' situation would just result in the car idling, and it wouldn't accelerate again until the pedal was fully released. There would be an initial surge of acceleration if they did the accelerator-instead-of-brake trick, but as the driver panicked and pressed harder, they'd just go back to idle instead. To take the idea a bit further you might make the car brake instead of idle, but while it would be funny to watch, I suspect that that would cause more accidents than it would avoid.
Re:Million Dollar Answer (Score:5, Insightful)
An easy fix would be to have a 'dead' spot on the accelerator right at the end of the travel, so that the 'foot to the floor' situation would just result in the car idling
Disastrous idea. I've had to accelerate hard a few times to avoid a collision, and you do that by flooring it, no time to think further. Unfortunately once I couldn't do that because there was a car right in front of me and we were both stopped. The resulting fireball resulting in 8 cars looking like this [gdargaud.net]... Way to end a honeymoon.