Amazon Opposes Plan To End Saturday Mail Delivery 504
theodp writes "Online retailer giant Amazon.com has come out against a US Postal Service proposal to end Saturday service, part of efforts to address the USPS budget deficit. 'Amazon's customers have come to appreciate and expect Saturday delivery,' explained Amazon VP Paul Misener. 'If the five-day delivery proposal is not withdrawn,' he added, 'we ask that Congress ensure that Saturday delivery be maintained.' In the past, Amazon has argued that it should not have to help support public services in states in which it has no physical presence." The article adds, "Interestingly, online DVD service Netflix is backing the plan to end Saturday mail delivery, arguing that a 'well functioning' Postal Service is more important than 'maintaining current delivery frequency.'"
The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:5, Insightful)
And, for Netflix, it benefits them by slowing down the rate that they receive videos (though it means Monday's will be heavier than they were before).
For Amazon, people want Saturday delivery without paying for it. For Netflix, people certainly want it, but if the USPS doesn't do it, then people will understand. So, Netflix can stop staffing the delivery portion of Saturday's if that goes through, while Amazon still has to do everything as normal and they lose the ability to cheaply send packages that can potentially arrive on Saturday.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:4, Insightful)
Summary read:
Amazon has argued that it should not have to help support public services in states in which it has no physical presence
What does that have to do with anything? Plus it's completely false. Amazon says it should not have to pay a tax to support New York's private government ~2500 miles away, but it still DOES support public services. It pays a toll for the roads (gas tax) and it pays a toll for the public mail (the postage tax) and it files income taxes with the U.S. and the California governments. I don't think a Slashdot summary should be stating politically-biased falsehoods like it did above.
IMHO
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:4, Interesting)
Some of us non-Sabbath-Keepers find Saturday delivery useful and productive. I've had problems with delivery drivers (particularly the pinheads from the USPS) over-ruling my request for packages to be left on the porch when no one is home, and causing delays in production due to untimely delivery. On Saturdays I stand a better chance of stopping them before they leave with my stuff.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I think this idea of ending Saturday delivery is dumb. I had heard they were considering another idea, but I guess it's been dropped because I haven't heard of it since then; the idea was to end Wednesday delivery, and keep Saturday delivery. That way, you never have to go more than 1 day without deliveries. Plus, most people are at work on Wednesdays, and not on Saturdays, so it's easier to sign for stuff then. I wish they'd go back to this idea.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, netflix sells you a plan that is limited only by how often you can get mail. If you can't get mail on Saturday, that's one less DVD they have to send you. Amazon, on the other hand, gets paid for every package they send you.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:4, Insightful)
True enough. And while Netflix may be looking forward to a mostly-online service, for now their customers (me) will be more likely to keep paying them if we can get DVDs on Saturday. Perhaps they're also being agreeable with the USPS because they've been at odds in the past over envelop jamming and such. I really couldn't care less if I get a package from Amazon on Saturday or wait until Monday. The only case that makes sense to me is when I send a gift and I'm as late ordering it as I usually am. I think skipping another day besides Sunday is OK for the USPS, but I'd vote for Wednesday so as not to have two consecutive days missed.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:4, Informative)
They do things like mess with your queue. A movie that is ready to ship will appear as "long wait". Your DVDs will be shipped from a shipping center across the country so that it takes 2-3 days to get to you and back, etc.
Ending Saturday delivery will only help netflix screw its customers out of more money. One more reason I don't have a netflix subscription.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:5, Insightful)
That's 17% fewer movies sent and received by Netflix every week. I would expect them to also want more public holidays in a year as well
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, this will tend to cause more of a surge on Mondays outgoing mail / Tuesday and Wednesday's incoming at Netflix. This will also tend to reduce the positive effect for Netflix. Most companies prefer to have a constant workload across all of their shifts and days, rather than dealing with surges. Like a power company, or a tax consultant, they have to size their capital investment to deal with surges, even though that is not fully utilized most of the time.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:5, Interesting)
We're one of those quick turnaround people. With a 6-day week, we can get a DVD on Wednesday, stick it in the mail Thursday, and get the next on on Saturday. This gives us the weekend to watch that movie and we put it in the mail on Monday, which then gives us another DVD on Wednesday. It's a great routine -- exactly 2 DVD's a week on the same days and one of them to watch every weekend. Taking out Saturday would certainly change things.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
lawd that's a lot of movies in a month. Watching 3 a week is stretching it for me.
:/
"Watch" them, and head to Blockbuster on Monday evening.
He's ripping them to HDD. At the end of the month, he has nearly enough movies to last a year.
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With Saturday delivery:
-On Friday, a particular drop box is emptied.
-On Saturday, it becomes 50% full by the time the USPS empties it again.
-On Monday, it has again become 50% full by the time the USPS empties it.
Without Saturday deliveries, between the Friday and Monday cleanout, the box has become 100% full. So from that particular drop box, there was a 100% increase in mail on Monday.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:5, Informative)
Sure they don't drop it off at your house, and most post office customer areas are not open sundays (they probably can't stop saturday customer house for people who work), but mail that is in the system is constantly moving. If it was going to arrive on monday, it will still arive on monday (with saturday's mail).
I wouldn't be surprised if they still send the trucks around for a daily pickup on the blue boxes on saturdays since this requires significantly less labor than actually delivering mail to every single house in the country.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:4, Interesting)
They don't need to. (Score:5, Informative)
That's 17% fewer movies sent and received by Netflix every week. I would expect them to also want more public holidays in a year as well
They don't need to. From their current Terms and Conditions:
We reserve the right to process orders and otherwise allocate and ship DVDs among our members in any manner that we, in our sole and absolute discretion, determine. In addition, we will, in our sole and absolute discretion, determine the quantity of DVDs we purchase for any particular movie, their location within our distribution network and the level of staffing and number of shipments to be processed at each distribution center.
Every new Terms and Conditions, they're putting things in their agreement that allows them not to give you "unlimited" whatever ....
There's verbiage in it that limits your "unlimited" online viewing too now.
Re:They don't need to. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, they can throttle you. But people get annoyed when they do that, and some even wind up canceling the service.
Getting the USPS to drop Saturday delivery would be a way for them to reduce DVD volume without getting blamed for it.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:5, Interesting)
Most of the products I buy from Amazon COULD fit comfortably in a mailbox, but they come in a box about three times bigger than it needs to be. I ordered a map update for my Magellan GPS, it was on an SD card. It came in a SD card caddy, in an envelope, in a big fucking cardboard box. You know, kind of like getting software licenses from HP. And it's a $50 product, it's not like it deserves a big box based on value.
Re:The difference between Amazon and Netflix (Score:5, Interesting)
Go back to your order, and leave packing feedback. Amazon has a nice form letting you vent about ridiculously-sized boxes.
Ever since they began collecting that data, I've noticed that my Amazon orders do seem to come in more appropriately-sized boxes (although they do still occasionally go ridiculously overboard). Their Frustration Free Packaging [amazon.com] initiative is also great for consumers and the environment alike.
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Amazon products fit comfortably in UPS, Fedex, and DHL trucks.
Wimps (Score:5, Funny)
This just tells me that USPS employees are wimps ;)
Seriously, at one point, after getting used to ordering games and movies from Amazon and finding the DVD case in an envelope that just about fit through the mailbox slot, I order IIRC City Of Villains. The game was packed in one of those big cardboard boxes, instead of the DVD cases we've got for the last half a decade. It was easily twice as thick as the mailbox slot. The German post employee had obviously not been deterred by that, and had managed to actually shove the damned thing half-way through that narrow slot.
I had gained proper appreciation for the awesomeness of said employee while trying to get it out. It was so firmly jammed in the slot, that it wouldn't go either forward or back at all, no matter how hard I pulled or shoved. I had to tear the box apart, partially working through the slot at that, and retrieve its contents piece-wise. It wasn't just that the cardboard box was thicker than the slot, but the sum of what was inside, you know, manual and CDs and all, was actually thicker on the whole than the slot.
(And while I'm at being awed by employees, having to work through that narrow slot also gave me a new perspective and a deep respect for gynecologists;))
I'm thinking it must have been the kind of guy who, when asked to fit various geometric figures through various shaped holes in kindergarten, thought it was a test of strength.
Jack up the price? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not just have a increased rate for Saturday delivery like Fedex and UPS? I don't see a reason for something to run on a loss. If Amazon's customers appreciate or expect it, either they or Amazon can pay extra for it.
Re:Jack up the price? (Score:5, Insightful)
In all seriousness, though, while there is a compelling public interest argument to be made in favor of the post office doing some un-economic things(and about the best chain of precedent you'll find for any US federal function, outside of war), like providing postal service to podunk towns that would have nothing otherwise; there seems to be no reason why they need to subsidize merely convenient services that have plenty of viable substitutes. If Saturday delivery costs more, offer it at a premium(or not at all, if you don't think you can make money at the new price point). People can either suck it up and wait till monday, or suck it up and pay Fedex/UPS.
Re:Jack up the price? (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought the viability of a public system like the USPS was a political matter.
Bingo! (Score:3, Interesting)
The USPS is running a huge deficit and dropping Saturday delivery does not fix the problem.
The problem is falling revenue and too many employees.
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I don't buy that "Junk-Mail-Subsidizing-First-Class" crap. If that was true, First-Class would be cheap or free, and the recyclable-paper-waste would cost more to deliver than First-Class does now.
USPS isn't a State Function (Score:5, Insightful)
In the past, Amazon has argued that it should not have to help support public services in states in which it has no physical presence.
I'm having trouble seeing exactly why this is relevant, other than innuendo. State taxes don't pay for mail delivery, that's a federal function. Amazon's stance is consistent. (Whether it's morally right or wrong is a separate issue, mind you.)
Re:USPS isn't a State Function (Score:5, Informative)
I think that's referring to Amazon defending its exemption from sales taxes (as cross-state sales typically are, at least in practice), the argument being that it's not bearing its share of e.g. road upkeep costs for the products its delivering.
Of course, I disagree with that argument, since taxes are normally completely decoupled from provision of the government service they fund, but I'm just trying to clarify what (I think) it's referring to.
Re:USPS isn't a State Function (Score:5, Insightful)
State and local gasoline taxes are more than enough to upkeep roads in most cases. They also usually fund things that have nothing to do with roads. That's how it should be.
States always want more money. Once Amazon is taxed, that means all the small internet businesses have to be taxed as well. There are so many small municipalities, especially in CA, demanding their special rate of sale's tax, that it would be hard for a small merchant to file it all.
Of course, I'm for the apt tax replacing all this bullshit anyway, no loopholes.
http://www.apttax.com/ [apttax.com]
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, I'm for the apt tax replacing all this bullshit anyway, no loopholes.
I'll read your link later, but as of now, the Fair Tax seems the best option - tax on what you spend, not on what you earn.
www.fairtax.org
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He also doesn't define what a transaction is, or why people who pay a tax on money they lost.
He is taking a big 'evil' thing people don't understand and using it as a way to spread FUD.
Taxing tranactiona tinme amount does seem like somethign we shoudl do.
I know America isn't ready to face a the simple truth:
The government need to generate more revenue. There really sin't any service left we can cut without dramatically undermining the countries future.
This mean higher taxes.
Taxing transaction might be a go
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
H
I know America isn't ready to face a the simple truth:
The government need to generate more revenue. There really sin't any service left we can cut without dramatically undermining the countries future.
This mean higher taxes. Taxing transaction might be a good start.
You say that as an absolute, but I disagree. I think America isn't ready to face THIS truth:
The people need to be responsible for themselves, and shouldn't expect others to take care of them. This means that there won't be government-funded health care, won't be government-funded welfare, won't be a "farm bill", won't be government bailouts, won't be government-funded home loans, won't be government-funded fixes when people insist on building their houses below sea level in hurricane zones.
I'd say there are
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The people need to be responsible for themselves, and shouldn't expect others to take care of them.
And it's being responsible to pay taxes. Everyone's still taking care of "themselves," but the risk is distributed such that no one person bears a proportion larger than they could handle. That holds true whether it's fixing a sinkhole on the road in front of their house, or treating cancer, and should be patently obvious. It's the whole point of living in communities and societies; otherwise we'd just head
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... However the USPS is not a govt agency, govt funded maybe but not direct govt.
Interesting that on USA.gov where they list all the government agencies they list the postal service. http://www.usa.gov/Agencies/Federal/All_Agencies/P.shtml [usa.gov]
Also my two BIL's that work for the post office are in the government retirement plan and don't get social security.
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In the past, Amazon has argued that it should not have to help support public services in states in which it has no physical presence.
I'm having trouble seeing exactly why this is relevant, other than innuendo.
Another reason it's irrelevant: corporations don't pay taxes, they just pass them on to consumers and investors.
Bullshit argument (Score:5, Insightful)
Did you miss the first day of economics? There's always downward pressure on prices. Any increased costs may be passed on to the consumer, but not always. The business that finds ways to absorb the tax increase without passing it on is the one that will probably sell more product.
But since a quarter of large corporations [nytimes.com] - $50m in sales or $250m in assets - don't pay any income taxes at all due to loopholes and offshore sheltering schemes, you're right: if they ever started to pay taxes, prices might go up.
And if corporations had to pay taxes for the infrastructure that enables them to be in business, I don't think that would be unfair. And if a business can't afford the burden of the infrastructure, guess what: they shouldn't be in business unless they serve to lower costs of vital services for the rest of the economy. And even then, since they exist entirely at the grace of tax payers, they should have no right to any amount of privacy.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
And where would they be moving to??
"Global economy" Fine sent from Europe. Guess what tariff on the goods coming in from out of the country would out way the "cheaper" cost of the goods. So consumers in the US would still by at a higher price then from another country. So the company that just moved would then close down.
Why do you think in a global economy most companies that do business globally have an office or plant located in that country.
So it can be made there and avoid the import costs.
I always did
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The article states that, overall, two thirds of corporations don't pay income taxes, meaning that large corporations are actually better at paying taxes than other corporations.
Those corporations barely make any money - they are created mostly for legal reasons. How are they going to pay taxes?
Claiming that large corporations don't pay taxes because of loopholes and sheltering schemes is patently false.
That's a parroted statement from the conservative think tank mentioned in the article, which has every reason to continue the charade about "net losses." Take a look at a more recent article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/16/AR2009011602602.html [washingtonpost.com]
Most of America's largest publicly traded corporations -- including several that are receiving billions of dollars from
Re:USPS isn't a State Function (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll add for you that Amazon is paying the USPS for delivery. In that respect, they are paying to support services. Why should Amazon pay for police or firefighters in states where they don't have a business presence?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Why should Amazon pay for police or firefighters in states where they don't have a business presence?
Because Amazon wouldn't be paying sales tax. They are just collecting tax from the customers on behalf of the state. It's the customers who are paying for services in their local area. Amazon doesn't have a problem with collecting taxes because they think they shouldn't have to pay for services, since sales taxes are always passed on to the customer. Amazon has a problem with it because not collecting sales tax gives them a huge (upwards of 10% in some areas) price advantage over local retailers.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Uhm, they are paying for Saturday delivery. By paying the USPS for delivery.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I don't know of a state that doesn't have a line on their income tax forms enabling an individual to remit sales tax on out-of-state purchases. The notion is no different from having Oregon (a state with no sales tax) retailers collect and remit for their non-resident customers their state of residence sales tax. It's an unrealistic logistical and administrative burden, especially for small, "out of their garage"/"mom and pop" retailers.
The concept of a sales tax is a piss poor idea from a number of diffe
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Why not just lump all of the taxation into one revenue stream, eliminate the substantial costs of collecting and administering multiple streams.
Because then people might start to realize just how much of their money goes to prop-up 'big government (tm).
It helps Netflix to end Saturday delivery (Score:5, Insightful)
If there are fewer delivery days in a month, then you get fewer movies per month if you turn them around every other day. This would help Netflix's bottom line to cut delivery down to 5 days a week.
Re: (Score:2)
Very interesting observation.. I was trying to figure out what Netfix's catch was on supporting 5 day delivery, and this makes perfect sense.. Although, what percentage of their user base does that, surely it can't be that high to really affect their bottom line much at all. I'm sure many users keep movies for a LONG time and end up spending a months subscription on 1 or 2 movies.
Re: (Score:2)
Short sighted.
It also means they are a slightly less attractive option to new customers.
Hey, maybe they just mean what they said?
I need saturday mail pickup (Score:5, Insightful)
Monday through Friday, I leave for work before our local Post Office opens and leave from work after it closes.
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Yeah, that works really well for sending international mail or larger domestic packages.
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Because all the overpaid postal workers won't get a two day weekend, duh.
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Won't somebody think of the Newman [wikipedia.org]!
Neflix != Amazon, and postal service == bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Netflix benefits from less frequent mail delivery. (Lower costs for them)
Amazon loses big from less frequent delivery (I frequently choose them because I can have a package here before I'd have time to go get the item in Manhattan myself).
As for the postal service, I frequently find myself waiting in 20 minute lines, at any time of day, to pickup a package that they were incapable of delivering correctly to my residence. I'd love to see someone that has a clue about business run the postal service rather than it being run with the competence level of the DMV.
Keep the Saturday delivery or go the way of the dodo, guys. (add Sunday delivery and be super-cool)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If the national post office was eliminated, we would have more private competition and a pretty decent chance of getting Sunday delivery. The newspaper comes on Sundays, why not the mail? They would also be more efficient while doing it. The level of service at the post office compared to UPS and Fedex is shockingly bad. Whenever I go into a UPS store there is little to no line.
Re:Neflix != Amazon, and postal service == bad (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Neflix != Amazon, and postal service == bad (Score:5, Informative)
It would be a great first step if they simply removed the federal monopoly on first class mail. That certainly wouldn't require changing the Constitution.
Re:Neflix != Amazon, and postal service == bad (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Wrong. Removing the monopoly would mean that private companies could deliver urban mail cheaper than the USPS, and 90% of mail would move to these private carriers. The USPS, still required to deliver to rural areas (which the private companies ignore, or charge much more for) would then not have enough money to continue operating, so the rural areas wouldn't get any mail service at all in the end.
Of course, there is a valid argument that rural areas should be required to pay more for mail service, instea
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If th
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Eliminating the national post office would require a Constitutional amendment. Delivering the mail is in the U.S. Constitution.
No, Congress is empowered to establish a post office, and post roads, but they are not obligated to do so. The USPS could be eliminated without an amendment, but I hope it wouldn't be.
Re:Neflix != Amazon, and postal service == bad (Score:4, Interesting)
The level of service at the post office compared to UPS and Fedex is shockingly bad. Whenever I go into a UPS store there is little to no line.
I disagree. Any time I've ever had to use UPS I've gotten nothing but terrible service. Anywhere from boxes that look like someone was using them as punching bags (and the stuff inside being broken or damaged in some way), to packages being lost and delayed and the fact that they are too incompetent to just hold a package at the office so you can pick it up.
Re:Neflix != Amazon, and postal service == bad (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Neflix != Amazon, and postal service == bad (Score:4, Funny)
USPS, not always on time, but mostly reliable; premium services don't compare with FedEx; tracking isn't great
Shipped a package once USPS with a guaranteed delivery date (extra fee for the guaranteed shipping). Package arrived 5 days late. Attempted to collect my refund. Was told by USPS counter worker that they "did not guarantee their guarantee" and I would receive no refund.
Re:Neflix != Amazon, and postal service == bad (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Screw rural residents:
Why should people living in the backwoods of Kentucky be entitled to force me to pay for their mail service? It's their choice to live there. If they really wanted better or less expensive service they should move to a city.
OMGS! EVERYONE EQUAL!
Government should benefit everyone equally, not one class of people over another.
Also, show me one farm of sufficient size to efficiently produce food for a substantial number of people. Fuck cities. They'd die overnight if food wasn't shipped into them like it's going out of style.
How does this affect me again? (Score:2)
what do they ship via USPS?
Re: (Score:2)
Everything I have gotten the last 2 years is USPS. I usually get stuff with "free" super-saver shipping, often faster than UPS ground. USPS is great at small to medium boxes (large boxes seem to be more domain of UPS and FEDEX and we're talking 2ftx2ftx2ft at least). USPS also offers a special rate on books, DVDs, CDs, etcetera called Media Mail and the rate can't be beat - for example: a 2lb package across the country at Parcel Post is $8.09 and with Media Mail it's $2.77. Library Mail is even cheaper
Skip Wednesday instead (Score:5, Interesting)
It's generally their junk mail drop with just flyers and other non-addressed answers.
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
That stuff only comes on Wednesday because the backlog of mail from over the weekend has finally subsided by Wednesday. If they got rid of Wednesday delivery, you'd just get the same crap on Thursday.
In that case, they'd better skip Thursday too.
I would make it even more drastic (Score:5, Interesting)
And just have alternating days. That way one postal worker can take care of two routes. Let's face it, mail is only going to decrease. So let them do M-W-F on Route 1 and T-Th-Sa on Route 2, and flip that the next week. Express mail can be an exception. Priority mail not so much, depending on logistics.
The USPS has been good to me and my internet business, so I'd prefer them to do well in return. IMO, this is the only way to really future proof the service. People will bitch but the rest of society just has to adapt, imo.
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Priority == First Class (Score:2)
Remember, Priority Mail is just a marketing name for first class mail. There's no extra priority on it. It's just a marketing push to get people to send packages first class instead of 4th class.
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".. send packages first class instead of 4th class."
Apparently there is an extra priority.
Did you even read what you wrote?
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This makes the most sense to me, but I would add another exception - any mail that requires a signature, regardless of class, should be attempted on the next Saturday before requiring you to pick it up at the nearest post office. If it increases the cost of that particular service, that is fine with me.
That said I don't think it is necessary to go so far right now, but if they are going to drop a day, it should be any day but Saturday.
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Unions won't allow that. The reason they are focusing on Saturday, that way [nearly] all full-time union workers can keep their jobs. Saturday has been an overtime / part-time job for the new guys on the route.
Same argument wnet for the "Drop Wednesday" plan. Keep the same number of days (5), and nobody loses their jobs.
Now those paying attention will notice that you don't save very much if you keep the same number of workers, with the same base pay rate, same benefits, and the same number of post office
Why not a weekday? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Businesses might be the opposite, so it might make sense to deliver to businesses M-F and residential M-W, F-Sa.
Re:Why not a weekday? (Score:5, Insightful)
BP to pay for Saturday delivery, loss in postcards (Score:5, Funny)
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Just cut... (Score:2)
Canada doesn't have any saturday deliveries (Score:5, Informative)
Not Canada Post, not FedEx, not UPS, not DHL, not Purolator. Nobody delivers on saturday except pizzerias.
Re:Canada doesn't have any saturday deliveries (Score:4, Informative)
Not true; you can receive Saturday delivery from FedEx if you are willing to pay for it.
Private Industry (Score:5, Interesting)
If Amazon wants Saturday delivery for its clients then it can continue to offer it using third parties like FedEx. That is what happens in the UK - you get letters six days a week but only parcels five days a week; if you want parcels on a Saturday then you have to pay a private company to do the delivery which Amazon EU/UK offers.
End mail delivery on Monday, Wednesday, or Friday (Score:5, Insightful)
Many USicans only have Saturdays free to run errands. Ending services on Saturday is a burden to them. Ending delivery on any other day of the week would be preferable.
Re:End mail delivery on Monday, Wednesday, or Frid (Score:5, Informative)
Many USicans only have Saturdays free to run errands. Ending services on Saturday is a burden to them.
How does a lack of Saturday delivery interfere with running errands? I find your comment confusing.
For comparison, I offer the Canadian system. While delivery only occurs on Monday through Friday, postal services are often available on an extended schedule. Canada Post maintains a network of service counters (often in drug, convenience, and grocery stores) which provide parcel services, sell money orders, and supply copies of frequently-used government documents (passport applications, tax forms). These local outlets also act as pickup points for parcels which are too large for home delivery (the stuff that didn't fit in your mailbox while you were out).
Many of these counters have extended weeknight hours (beyond typical nine-to-five business hours) and offer Saturday hours; some are even open on Sunday afternoons. (The retailers hosting the counters have probably realized that extended postal hours can attract customers.) In other words, Canadian Saturday-errand-runners have no trouble obtaining postal services, even in the absence of Saturday delivery.
Letters and smaller parcels can, of course, be sent at any time simply by dropping in a post box.
It is so simple to solve this, but they will not. (Score:2)
First off, the bulk of their costs is in the cities. Why? Because so many of the routes are door to door. Simply have that changed to large postal boxes.
Likewise, I found out that the majority of postal routes are about 25 miles. This is the IDEAL situation for companies that want to offer electric cars. Create a CJ type vehicle that gets about 40-50 miles on a charge (radio, heater, ac).
It is really sad how little thought goes in
Who even understands the Post Office any more? (Score:3, Insightful)
The argument is common, and one that even Obama has poked fun at -- the Post Office loses money.
Let's take a step back in history folks -- and realize that the Post Office was not *designed* to make money. It was designed to facilitate the communication between long distances in a organized, logical way. It's a great reason why we have become the powerhouse that we have, because we knew we could rely on legal documents being delivered, because contracts could be signed and sent back, and the legal code behind them was always upheld.
Fast forward to today -- the need for the post office still exists in a large fashion. I am not arguing against or for Saturday delivery, but it's just a point of annoyance for me, so I am addressing it. What other service in the world can allow you to ship a letter from one remote corner of the country to another for mere cents? The ability for citizens to mail letters and rely on their ability to reach the destination is still hugely important, and one that *should* be subsidized by our tax dollars. Until the time we go fully electronic, the post office will have a need. That time is not now. You are still "served" in person, you still have to sign contracts by hand, and a multitude of other things that have not yet caught up to the pace of technology.
So when you think about what the post office has allowed the US to accomplish over the years of its service, take a moment to think that without it, our country would not be nearly as far along as it is, and we have a lot to thank for that. And to boot -- we still need it for the same reasons today.
Minus one, just plain wrong (Score:5, Informative)
The United States Post Office is self-sufficient [nalc.org]
Re:Minus one, just plain wrong (Score:4, Informative)
Uh, let's revisit that idea. From the section titled "The Postal Service is self-sufficient" -- there are two columns. One is for 1942-1971 and one is for 1972-2007. Several things wrong. The most grievous is that the numbers have convenient grouped 35 years of operating costs and revenue together. The second is that your stats still show a net loss of $600 million dollars for those 35 years.
But, addressing the more important point, the decline of demand for mail delivery services has happened in the age of the internet. Let's break those out by year instead of grouping them together in a three decade chunk. And instead of citing a website from the National Association of Letter Carriers, let's use the actual financial report from the USPS.
Financial Highlights -- FY2009 [usps.com]
Observe net loss.
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Re:A better solution (Score:4, Informative)
"Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads
; To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."
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Re:Amazon wants their cake and eat it too... (Score:5, Insightful)
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How do you get the idea that Amazon does not pay postage (support the service that the post office provides them)?
Which raises the question... why aren't they just going to raise postal rates for Saturday delivery? I mean... they *are* a business.
Re:Amazon wants their cake and eat it too... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, because it's free to put things in the post.
Oh, wait... The Postal Service don't do it from the grace in their fairy slave hearts, they expect to get paid to deliver the goods, even on a Saturday?! Unless they pay the staff extra on a Saturday, then I can't see what USPS's problem is.
Dunno about the US, but in the UK about 40% (so I hear) of people are single and don't have anyone waiting in all week for a big parcel to arrive. Saturday's about the only day I can get a parcel delivered to my house. Any other day, and I have to wait a couple of days before collecting it from the depot a couple of miles away.
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They pay for delivery (which also pays for gas) and they pay federal taxes. And on the other hand, they don't have buildings or employees in those states.
Re:Be careful what you ask for? (Score:5, Informative)
Q. Amazon, can you pay some taxes here? A. No way, we don't want to operate this way. Q. Amazon, what should be we do about the spending problem and the deficit? A. Cut your services. Q. Amazon, we are going to cut the services, happy? A. NOOOOOO!
The USPS is funded solely by the sale of postage, not tax dollars and thus has NO impact on the deficit. .