Open Source Guy Takes the Hardest Job At Microsoft 325
jbrodkin writes "Gianugo Rabellino, founder of the Italian Linux Society and a key member of the Apache Software Foundation, traded his Linux and Mac PCs in for a Windows 7 laptop and took on a newly created job at Microsoft designed to encourage collaboration between Redmond and open source communities. 'Developers nowadays are mostly to be found in the open source world,' the new Microsoft executive says. 'We need to go where they are.' With Rabellino's help, Microsoft is expanding its successful partnership with PHP developers , but Steve Ballmer and crew are a long way from completely erasing their poor reputation in Linux and open source circles."
As always... (Score:5, Informative)
It's a trap!
Re:As always... (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't know whether it's a trap, but what has the Open Source community to gain from working with Microsoft?
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what money (Score:2)
in the last 10 years, small businesses increasingly moved to having their web presences developed and maintained in lamp stacks. (naturally with php, the p at the end of the acronym).
microsoft was trying to push windows, iis, asp or asp.net (later) with mssql to businesses, locking them into their stuff. but, lamp made them undone. this is why they are trying
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Resources?
Microsoft interoperating more easily with open source formats and tools (better support for open document formats, etc)?
Re:As always... (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft interoperating more easily with open source formats and tools (better support for open document formats, etc)?
I would like to believe that but there's one reason I doubt it. By their nature, open formats are accessible and open to anyone who would like to implement them. Microsoft wouldn't need outside help for that. If this were important to them they would have already done it.
Abandoning the vendorlock that comes with proprietary file formats goes against their grain. If they do it, it will be reluctantly.
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" By their nature, open formats are accessible and open to anyone who would like to implement them. "
But it might take some time to be an expert on them (e.g. ODT).
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Relevance.
Microsoft is evil, blah blah blah, but if people really want open source alternatives to make any progress with regular people, they need to gain mindshare. While Android may help, phones and tablets are a far cry from a full desktop environment. The only way to break into (normal-people) desktop computing is to go where the users are. That means swallowing our pride and working with Microsoft for the foreseeable future. It doesn't mean we've sold out or have doomed open source to failure. It
please dont talk bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft is evil, blah blah blah, but if people really want open source alternatives to make any progress with regular people, they need to gain mindshare.
open source alternatives dont need to make progress with regular people in web development scene - that scene is already OWNED by open source. the amount and variety of apps on lamp stack (linux apache mysql php - insert postgres sometimes), and their usage is so huge and so varied. this is what causing microsoft to try to bring all those small and medium businesses (and recently big ones) that got out of their hands in regard to web presence, back to microsoft platforms.
the summary is - all this is pointless. there is no reason for anyone, developers and clients alike, to move to microsoft's platforms. everything is free on lamp stack. even if you go VERY big, and start to cluster servers and then have to employ server farms. all you need to pay for is development of your app. no licenses, no other shit. and, development is quite cheap, because the php dev scene is big.
there is nothing microsoft can offer to open source community in this field.
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I kind of though that open source was based on software freedom and not "hate hate hate Microsoft Microsoft hate hate hate".
But, hey, what do I know.
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Re:As always... (Score:4, Interesting)
Indeed. I smell an "embrace and extend" coming.
Apologies to Frank Capra:
Ballmer: Gianugo, I'm an old man, and most people hate me. But I don't like them either, so that makes it all even. You know just as well as I do that I run practically everything in this town but Open Source. You know, also, that for a number of years I've been trying to get control of it...or kill it. But I haven't been able to do it. You have been stopping me. In fact, you have beaten me, Gianugo, and as anyone in this county can tell you, that takes some doing. Take during the Internet bubble, for instance. You and I were the only ones that kept our heads. You saved Open Source, and I saved all the rest.
Gianugo: Yes. Well, most people say you stole all the rest.
Ballmer: The envious ones say that, Gianugo, the suckers. Now, I have stated my side very frankly. Now, let's look at your side. Young man, twenty-seven, twenty-eight...married, making, say...forty a week.
Gianugo (indignantly): Forty-five!
Ballmer: Forty-five. Forty-five. Out of which, after supporting your mother, and paying your bills, you're able to keep, say, ten, if you skimp. A child or two comes along, and you won't even be able to save the ten. Now, if this young man of twenty-eight was a common, ordinary yokel, I'd say he was doing fine. But Gianugo Rabellino is not a common, ordinary yokel. He's an intelligent, smart, ambitious young man - who hates his job.
Gianugo (taken aback): Now what's your point, Mr. Ballmer?
Ballmer: My point? My point is, I want to hire you.
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Yes,
Re:As always... (Score:5, Informative)
When Microsoft moves on we will. That would mean supporting WebM or another royalty free codec, making silverlight and its DRM modules portable, and not spreading FUD about FREE software.
Re:As always... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actions speak loudest.
There are lot of people working in the open source software industry who have no problems with working with Microsoft. We've just been burned a few times and aren't interested in wasting time with people who talk the talk but won't walk the walk... In other words, get back to me when they're actually doing something other than barring copyleft from WP7 marketplace or claiming that linux kernel violates hundreds of patents without prodiving any verifiable facts.
So, to get back to your comment: what exactly has MS done that we should be interested of and how should we "move on" with regards to that? I've heard they're actually useful (or at least not harmful) in the PHP circles -- good for the PHP folks. That doesn't mean I'm going to trust or rely on Microsoft in my projects (mostly on the mobile client side), not without considerable show of commitment from them.
You heard wrong. (Score:2)
I've heard they're actually useful (or at least not harmful) in the PHP circles -- good for the PHP folks.
they practically dont exist in php circles.
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Last I checked, most PHP developers still write code on Windows (albeit with Apache+MySQL rather than IIS+MSSQL).
Re:As always... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh bullcrap. They create a position like this every year or two, then we get this little "Ask the Quisling some Questions!!!" to which said quisling will answer that Microsoft has changed, that Microsoft wants to co-operate with the FOSS community, blah blah blah and then suddenly in the midst of all this goodwill Ballmer announces that Linux or OpenOffice or whatever violates ten bazillion of Microsoft's patents.
Fuck this guy.
Re:As always... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, because corrupting the ISO process [theregister.co.uk] was soooo 1990's... no wait!
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OT: ISO has no respect in my eyes.
They could only redeem themselves by revoking the standard. There would be no damage because there are no products that follows it, not even MS' own Office.
(Office 2010 produces files that follow the ITU version of the Docx format.)
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Your ad hominem attacks are trite and old.
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Re:As always... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Only copyleft licenses are restricted in WP7 marketplace, and that is because Microsoft is distributor of apps within, and would therefore get a burden of legal obligations placed on distributors by such licenses (to provide code on request etc).
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attempts to throw patent roadblocks in front of everything
I have to defend them on that one. As crazy as the patent system has gotten, if they don't defend their patents, they are essentially putting up a big sign for Apple, Sony et. al. saying "Come rape us!" In this crazy environment, if someone comes suing you over patents, you have to have some patents of your own to hit them back with. It's sad but true that the only way for a company like MS to stand is to have its own cache of patents to ward off other companies. Just ask Sony [bloomberg.com] and LG [theinquirer.net].
Re:We will when MS does. (Score:4, Informative)
You don't have to sue to protect patents. That is trademarks you are thinking of. With patents you can sue those who only sue you first if you want.
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But if they don't aren't they opening themselves up to a web of charges of prior art and other problems in a subsequent court case? If Party A violates my patent and I don't sue them, and Party B later comes along and violates it and I sue them, what's to stop Party B from saying "Well you obviously didn't think Party A was infringing way back when, and we're doing the same thing as them, so obviously this has no merit."
Re:We will when MS does. (Score:4, Informative)
That's not how patents work. See "Submarine patent".
Re:We will when MS does. (Score:4, Interesting)
This is not how patents work. You can let A infringe all you like and never tell B why. Heck, maybe A is just your good buddy. Patents are not impacted by your choice not to litigate against one infringer.
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Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:We will when MS does. (Score:4, Insightful)
Just bear in mind, they have patents (rightly or wrongly) and *could* use them against Linux - but so far have not done so.
I don't really see how they can use patents against "Linux" -- you can't sue "Linux" as an organization. In theory they could sue IBM or Google or someone like that, but those companies have their own patent arsenals. Conversely, they could sue one of these little guys who has no patents, but the little guys also have no money. So Microsoft might get an injunction, but then they've tipped their hand and three days later there is a version that works around whatever patent the old version was allegedly infringing.
And on top of that, any real aggression against Linux would be bad PR for the open source developers they're allegedly trying to woo here, plus any potential antitrust problems for going after a competitor to their monopoly, plus the risk of IBM or someone retaliating, or the EFF or someone else starting a project to invalidate whatever patents they're using to rattle sabers.
It's a lot safer for them to just spread FUD and not actually litigate anything. Although it makes you question their stance in favor of software patents -- one wonders whether a bunch of patent lawyers who don't want to be out of a job aren't lobbying the lobbyists.
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attempts to throw patent roadblocks in front of everything
I have to defend them on that one.
If MS were against software patents they'd be campaigning to governments, which would probably make a big impact.
Instead, they campaign for software patents.
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Hey, look! (Score:2)
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It's just a little airborne, it's still good, it's still good! - Homer
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LoB
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All a matter of propulsion.
Cue the "Akbar" quotes (Score:2)
So, (Score:4, Insightful)
what about asp, asp.net,
and really, what 'partnership' anyway ?
He's there for PHP (Score:5, Insightful)
According to TFA, 'Rabellino's main focus right now "is to enable PHP to shine on our platforms."'
So, he's there to get people to migrate from LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySql, PHP) systems to WIMP (Windows, IIS, MS-SQL, PHP) systems.
Re:He's there for PHP (Score:4, Funny)
According to TFA, 'Rabellino's main focus right now "is to enable PHP to shine on our platforms."'
So, he's there to get people to migrate from LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySql, PHP) systems to WIMP (Windows, IIS, MS-SQL, PHP) systems.
I think I will stick with TRAP (Tomcat, RESTful, Apache, Postgres) application stack..
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Mmm, forgetting an OS there?
Maybe you meant TAMPON: Tomcat, Apache, Mina, Postgres On NetBSD.
precisely. (Score:4, Insightful)
no php developer will ditch lamp and start working on 'wimp'. this at most can cause an infiltration of php developers into windows/iis scene, and cause microsoft to lose on that front too. because due to the synergy in lamp, and the immense software scene of php apps on lamp, php devs will gravitate towards lamp and they will take ex-microsoft clients with them too - 'this requires this, that and that paid infrastructure in ms, but, see, its free on lamp' -> whoops - another client moved to lamp. because, its free into the future - even if you expand, expand expand, cluster, cluster and set up farms.
their effort is pretty much pointless.
Grim future... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Grim future... (Score:4, Funny)
PHP.Net
Re:Grim future... (Score:4, Informative)
Oh thank you very much, dammit! I'll send my next shrink bill to you!
Re:Grim future... (Score:5, Funny)
That would be like Darth Vader and Adolf Hitler screwing and having a baby...
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Darth Vader, and Jar Jar Binks would be more like it.
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Alternative title: flunky sells out (Score:3)
It's not the hardest job in MS. It's a PR stunt. Just being hired is already a win for MS.
examples (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, I don't know this guy personally, so it's not an attack on him, but MS has hired various "open source" people in the past, and what do we get?
MS pays Nokia to drop KDE and MeeGo. MS pays Novell to develop a C# and .Net stuff (which prevents the antitrust commission calling them a monopoly), and when Novell goes bust, MS buys their patents.
I don't see any indication that this hire is any good news for us.
Re:Alternative title: flunky sells out (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not the hardest job in MS. It's a PR stunt. Just being hired is already a win for MS.
The hardest job at MS would be their security experts. Imagine trying to do a job and having every last move you make either neutered or cancelled entirely by Marketing.
MS has a small army of highly skilled people. They could definitely produce higher quality software. I believe they could make malware a rarity if they really wanted to do it. But what's their incentive when you can make billions without going to all the trouble?
The only reason MS is being so nice lately is they're more irrelevant than ever. Microsoft can handle being loved and they can handle being hated. What they don't want to face is being ignored. They're hardly obscure yet but they are long-term strategic thinkers so they realize that things are moving in that direction, in baby steps at the moment. The real interesting stuff is coming from Google and Apple while Microsoft is stagnating. Windows 7 is nice but it's not the giant improvement that XP was over Win98. Even the XBox360 is showing its age.
When things were going so well for MS and the industry was very interested in what they were doing, we got to see how much of a dick they can be. If they start innovating again you can expect their attitude about Open Source to go back to the "Halloween documents" days. I hope Mr. Rabellino understands one thing very well: if you get in bed with Microsoft, you're going to get fucked.
You know, even if Microsoft really has turned over a new leaf and really has a sincere desire to honestly work with Open Source, even if this really isn't a trap of the "embrace and extend" sort ... their past behavior makes them unworthy of our cooperation. They have about ten years of complete asshattery to undo and all of the people who perpetrated that are still running the company, particularly Ballmer. Maybe this is like politics where people have horribly short memories.
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The hardest job at MS would be their security experts. Imagine trying to do a job and having every last move you make either neutered or cancelled entirely by Marketing.
Seems the following video was created by people in Microsoft: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeXAcwriid0 [youtube.com]
If that's true they also have marketing talent (or had ;) ). Their stuff just gets "microsofted" on the way out.
Re:Alternative title: flunky sells out (Score:4, Insightful)
Here's the claim: http://www.ipodobserver.com/ipo/article/Microsoft_Confirms_it_Originated_iPod_Box_Parody_Video/ [ipodobserver.com]
Microsoft spokesman Tom Pilla on Tuesday confirmed with iPod Observer that his company initiated the creation of the iPod packaging parody video that was first reported last month. "It was an internal-only video clip commissioned by our packaging [team] to humorously highlight the challenges we have faced RE: packaging and to educate marketers here about the pitfalls of packaging/branding," he said via e-mail.
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They're hardly being ignored here on Slashdot. Probably even Microsoft's blog doesn't post such a binge of Microsoft PR material...
True, though from reading through the comments I see that most people aren't buying it. That's PR I can appreciate.
It's probably the only kind. They call it "Public Relations" because that's shorter than "a substitute for lack of merit". PR: what you fall back on when the straight unspun truth wouldn't make you look so good.
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The only reason MS is being so nice lately is they're more irrelevant than ever. Microsoft can handle being loved and they can handle being hated. What they don't want to face is being ignored. They're hardly obscure yet but they are long-term strategic thinkers so they realize that things are moving in that direction, in baby steps at the moment. The real interesting stuff is coming from Google and Apple while Microsoft is stagnating. Windows 7 is nice but it's not the giant improvement that XP was over Win98. Even the XBox360 is showing its age.
Go back ten years, and you're exactly the same... Microsoft owns the desktop with Windows, the businesses through Exchange and Office, everybody is going "Microsoft is stagnating" Uh no, just no. If anything most companies are now even deeper in the pockets of Microsoft than before through Sharepoint and various other hooks. Many people will continue to use Windows at home because they use Windows at work, and honestly if Microsoft wasn't in a crisis over Vista then Windows 7 is a walk in the park. The only
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In fact a pretty easy job. If the job really involves trying to improve cooperation, the job is essential to tell MS: If you want their cooperation, you should stop trying to murder them.
Of course if the job is to make open source cooperate more in getting murdered, things might be more difficult.
13 years ... (Score:2)
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By what exact definition would you come up with?
1) Speed -> .NET .NET .NET
2) IDEs -> Varies by user, VS, Eclipse, whatever, and most that can handle PHP can handle C# or VB.NET ->
3) Features in Built in Library ->
4) Available Modules from 3rd party devs -> ???
5) Documentation -> Parity, both have very good documentation
So, as far as I can see, the only place .NET could win out is #4 .NET wins on 1 and 3. .NET wins, but only due to one more IDE
On #2,
on #5, no clear winner.
Re:13 years ... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Sticking to the 2.0 runtime, I've not had *ANY* troubles with mono.
Mind you, I've not used it on a Mac, and I've read that calling external libraries on a Mac is a bit qurky
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php is part of lamp stack. and on lamp stacks, php flat out leaves behind net et al in speed. in regard to features and libraries, there isnt a few programming languages that can cope up with it on the face of the planet. we are little short of starting having modules for php in apache or libraries in php to do physical interface programming to boil eggs in the morning or make our tea.
available modules from 3rd party devs ? oh boy. there are ENDLE
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Err, typo, the only place PHP could win out is #4
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I bet Visual Studio would be somewhat popular for Linux if they'd make it
I bet the 1959 Edsel would be somewhat popular if they still made it. But I'd rather have a Toyota Camry instead. Just as, having used both, I prefer Kdevelop to Visual Studio.
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The whole point of .NET is to not be properly cross-platform. That's why Mono is perpetually behind -- so that applications using the latest features from Microsoft won't run on Linux. There is no argument to be made that if Microsoft wanted Mono to have a first-class implementation of the latest version of .NET, it would. And it doesn't.
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bullshit. (Score:2)
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-php-7oohabits/ [ibm.com]
and that article was from the times in which oop wasnt well developed in php too.
Post once manned by Bill Milf (Score:5, Interesting)
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LoB
Assimilation (Score:2, Insightful)
.
Does anyone really think Microsoft wants to partner with the Open Source people?
Microsoft is out to destroy the Open Source community. Why else would Microsoft prohibit Open Source apps from the Windows Phone 7 Marketplace [theinquirer.net]?
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Destroying the open source community and wanting to hire them because "that's where the developers are" are hardly contradictory. They gotta eat somehow...
Re:Assimilation (Score:4, Insightful)
Destroying the open source community and wanting to hire them because "that's where the developers are" are hardly contradictory. They gotta eat somehow...
If that's where the developers are it's partly because Microsoft's business practices and general stagnation drove them there.
Good luck with that (Score:2)
I suspect this is a PR stunt more than anything. Even if MS were serious about it, it wouldn't work. Combining a for-profit company and the OSS philosophy of selfless idealism (which the OSS community often embraces in its most extreme and uncompromising form, no less) almost always results in failure. Just look at Canonical. They tried to do it, only to end up under fire [slashdot.org] for even the mildest moves towards making money. Combining "I want to give everything away for free, including all our IP" with "I want t
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I suspect this is a PR stunt more than anything. Even if MS were serious about it, it wouldn't work. Combining a for-profit company and the OSS philosophy of selfless idealism (which the OSS community often embraces in its most extreme and uncompromising form, no less) almost always results in failure. Just look at Canonical. They tried to do it, only to end up under fire [slashdot.org] for even the mildest moves towards making money. Combining "I want to give everything away for free, including all our IP" with "I want to make money" is just a very tough proposition.
The viable Open Source companies like Red Hat generally sell support and enterprise features. It seems to work well for them.
Big Society (Score:4, Insightful)
Steve Ballmer is the same type of creep as George W. Bush or David Cameron. Instead of Open Source think Compassionate Conservatism or Big Society. It's all the same thing and just a way to market useful idiots as being in the club and get them to work for free. If it doesn't make them and their pals a profit (or reduce a loss) they'll hang you out to dry the second the going gets difficult.
How about instead of selling out to these toffs people learn management, marketing, and finance themselves so they can provide a better alternative? Microsoft, the Republicans, and the Tories will never change. They just want to be top dog and don't care how they do it. Anyone who things they have changed is wasting their time. It's the 1930's all over again.
Director of Open Source Communities? (Score:3)
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"Director" is a business title, like "Director of Software", "Director of Business Development", "Director of Engineering", "Director of Sales" etc. In this case, it means it is a senior role with good pay & perks, and probably a decent-sized staff.
When someone removes a turd from a punchbowl (Score:5, Insightful)
No one wants to take a drink from it, no matter how thoroughly they claim to have cleaned it.
What flavor of Open? (Score:2)
Are we going to see a sudden outpouring of love for the GPL/LGPL? Or are we talking 'open' as in something Microsoft can scoop up and build into their proprietary product suites?
I think it will be closer to option B.
Gut Feel Only... (Score:2)
Microsoft won't really change until the BOD inserts a new CEO.
Reputation and memory of the current occupant is distinctly distasteful.
Denver Open Source Group meets @ MicroSoft tonight (Score:2)
Sounds Familiar... (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyone remember when Daniel Robbins (founder of Gentoo Linux) went to work for MS?
From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
Robbins' move to Microsoft, on 13 June 2005, attracted attention[15][16] within the Linux community, which has historically had a combative relationship with Microsoft. He described his role working for Bill Hilf as "...helping Microsoft to understand Open Source and community-based projects..."[17]
However, Robbins resigned less than a year later on 16 January 2006 due to frustrations that he was unable to fully utilize his technical skills in this position. His new job is at ABC Coding Solutions where he will be focused on building in .NET on Windows.[18]
I'm quite certain he browses Slashdot, perhaps he could chime in on what Microsoft has been up to?
What Microsoft is doing (Score:4, Funny)
Microsoft knows the FOSS community has some power now. So instead of their old tactics, they're trying to be nice. Diplomatic.
As in, diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie" whilst you find a rock.
You guys are looking at this wrong (Score:2)
NOT the hardest job at Microsoft. (Score:3)
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Or, and stick with me because it is a stretch.
Use the Microsoft logo.
Check it out
The Android logo is used for Android.
The Internet Explorer logo is used for Internet Explorer
And get this
The Apple logo is used for Apple.
Considering this, shouldn't the Microsoft logo be used for Microsoft stories?
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You must mean the *Windows* logo.
Microsoft has no logo except the word "Microsoft" in a particular font. At least not today. Maybe they should use the 1983 O that looked a bit like the AT&T death star!
I Vote No (Score:2)
It still applies.
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