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Rivals Mock Microsoft's 'Native HTML5' Claims 211

CWmike writes "Mozilla and Opera are mocking browser rival Microsoft's use of the term 'native HTML5' to describe Internet Explorer 9 and the in-development IE10 as an oxymoron, an attempt to hijack an open standard and a marketing ploy. On Tuesday, Microsoft's Dean Hachamovitch, the executive who runs the IE group, used the term several times during a keynote at MIX, the company's annual Web developers conference, and in an accompanying post on the IE blog. Hachamovitch claimed in his keynote that, 'The only native experience of the Web of HTML5 today is on Windows 7 with IE9.' Asa Dotzler, Mozilla's director of community development, replied mockingly in Bugzilla: 'I'm pretty sure Firefox 5 has "complete native HTML5" support. We should resolve this as fixed and be sure to let the world know we beat Microsoft to shipping *complete* native HTML5.'"
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Rivals Mock Microsoft's 'Native HTML5' Claims

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  • by aapold ( 753705 ) on Friday April 15, 2011 @01:44PM (#35830836) Homepage Journal
    I think what they mean is they are employing natives in third world countries to write their HTML.
    • by jonadab ( 583620 )
      No, that's wrong. If you read what the Microsoft dude wrote, it's extremely clear: "native" in this context means "not cross-platform" and specifically "not built on cross-platform libraries or abstraction layers (like, presumably, Webkit or Gecko or XUL or anything along those lines)".

      Really. I'm not making this up. He specifically mentions "avoiding abstractions, layers, and libraries".

      Leave it to Microsoft to herald the same old archaic non-portability we used to suffer in the bad old days as a posit
      • Of course Microsoft means native in the sense of using the Windows APIs. This is of course to be expected from them. They have been eating their own dog food for a long time now. I fact, I would argue that this is the default meaning of the term "native" regardless of whether or not the actual API set is cross-platform in nature.

        A native Gnome application uses GTK and other Gnome based interfaces. A native KDE application uses native KDE APIs, and so forth.

        Then you have something like Plan 9 or Inferno

  • Still grumbling about pages that passed the w3c validater, looked beautiful in Mozilla, Opera, and Konqueror and I had to redo them because of IE.

    • No don't destroy the true native HTML 5 experience!

      The native experience you can only feel while surfing the web with IE9 on Windows 7.

  • Native? Complete? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ifrag ( 984323 ) on Friday April 15, 2011 @01:48PM (#35830904)

    Of course there's no such thing as complete HTML5 either since it's still a draft.

    • What MS is claiming is even more ridiculous than that. They are not claiming HTML5 "compliance." What they are claiming is that their browser in Windows runs HTML5 "natively" which they didn't really explain what the heck that meant. Browsers normally translate HTML and CSS and Javascript using the browser engine. MS might be claiming that their new IE9 engine (Trident 5.0) is more integrated with Windows and allows Windows to do the HTML5 translation. That's the only thing I can think of that makes an
    • by blair1q ( 305137 )

      And neither FF nor IE implement enough to pass the HTML5 [] test "completely".

      • by asa ( 33102 )

        Once again, I didn't claim "complete HTML 5 support". I claimed "complete native HTML 5 support". There's a joke there, see?

  • by diegocg ( 1680514 ) on Friday April 15, 2011 @01:52PM (#35830956)

    "Web sites and HTML5 run best when they run natively, on a browser optimized for the operating system on your device," said Hachamovitch. "We built IE9 from the ground up for HTML5 and for Windows to deliver the most native HTML5 experience and the best Web experience on Windows".

    Translation: IE only runs in Windows, so it's better. In fact, IE is so native that it doesn't support Webgl. Take that, Firefox and Chrome!

    • Well duh..... If it's not D3D then it's not "native". We all know that OpenGL is a hacked version of D3D.
      • by asa ( 33102 )

        Firefox uses D3D on Windows Vista and Windows 7. Microsoft has no exclusive access to D3D and in some well documented cases Firefox's architecture makes Firefox's employment of D3D even more effective in pushing graphics operations off of the CPU and onto the GPU than does IE's. Firefox accelerates scrolling, for example, where IE falls on its face.

    • That much stress on "natively" does not make sense. Looks like they are fighting some kind of rearguard/flankguard action with VMWare, rather than with Firefox or Chrome.
    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      Or IE runs natively on the OS, no sandboxing going on here.

    • by blair1q ( 305137 )

      So you're saying it's not just native, it's savage?

  • Meanwhile, Firefox remains the red headed stepchild to Microsoft because money talks.

  • How can anyone, whether Mozilla or MS claim their product has or will soon have complete support for HTML5 when HTML5 is still a draft (subject to change) and it will remain a draft at least for a couple of years?

  • When they say stuff like this, what's the point?

    Consumers don't know what html5 is and even if they did they wouldn't care. And developers, etc. know what they're saying is lies. So it's a lose-lose type of comment.

    • Where the presentation was made, it was pointless, or even a "lose".

      But for the average web-goer, if they saw a chart like:
      IE___________| Other__________
      Native HTML5 | No Native HTML5

      They go "ooh" the background in that box is green, the other is red... go with green, doesn't really matter if it's factual or not.

      • by TiggertheMad ( 556308 ) on Friday April 15, 2011 @02:58PM (#35831734) Homepage Journal
        You don't get it. IE is far superior from a technological point of view, because it leverages the native source console features of the HTML 5 api to produce superior page state management and rasterization of dynamic content streams. The convergent meta-buffering features alone, make IE far more optimized for modern greb-drizle frazzle dazzle alacazam gibblety gobbilty goo. Don't try to fight the marketing droids with reason. You cannot win.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    Reminds of this set of speakers I purchased a while back. It says right on the box, "Now with enhanced MP3 support!".

    Sad thing is, I saw someone reading the box who got all excited because all they had were MP3s.

    • Reminds of this set of speakers I purchased a while back. It says right on the box, "Now with enhanced MP3 support!".

      Maybe it has a muffled high end so you don't hear the squishy mp3 artifacts so much?

      A good marketer can turn any weakness into an asset!

  • by sideslash ( 1865434 ) on Friday April 15, 2011 @02:21PM (#35831312)
    ...but the performance demos in the MIX conference were entertaining, as all such demos are. I liked the one where the Windows Phone browser smoked Android, which in turn smoked iPhone 4. But contrived demos and marketing aside, it's nice to see Microsoft join the party in pushing the performance envelope on HTML and javascript.
  • Factual (Score:5, Funny)

    by ssbssb ( 1537859 ) on Friday April 15, 2011 @02:29PM (#35831396)
    Clearly this was not intended to be a factual statement.
  • Dean Hachamovitch puts on his favorite trollface and giggles to himself at the riot he's received in response to his comments, while his market speak does its magic on the laymen PC users who think it actually has some legitimate meaning.

    Marketing has been dishonest since marketing has existed, and while we scoff at what he has said, he hasn't said it for people who really understand it. Why is everyone so hung up on it now?

    • Marketing has been dishonest since marketing has existed

      See, I don't think most marketing people are smart enough to _deliberately_ be dishonest. It's just the way they see the world.

  • I've been mocking them too and I'm not a rival!

    A large portion of the web development community has been mocking them. It is a terrible idea to let marketing try to write technical jargon without filtering it through technical people.

    • It is a terrible idea to let marketing try to write technical jargon without filtering it through technical people.

      What's sad is how any good reputation earned by the effort of developers who actually did implement large parts of HTML5 for IE9 (and keep doing more for IE10) - and there actually was quite a bit of that, if you look outside Slashdot - was instantly destroyed by one clueless blog post that not only bragged of something not worth bragging, but worded it in such a way as to make the entire project the laughing stock of web developers everywhere.

      • by asa ( 33102 )

        But shutdown, it wasn't just one careless blog post. It was infused through out the entire campaign around IE9 and the IE10 developer preview. It was in the stage presentations, the press briefings, the blog posts and more. This wasn't some silly little slip. This is Microsoft's well-reasoned attack on the other browsers.

        Maybe the engineering team for IE doesn't deserve this but they are the ones that chose to work for a company known for this kind of dishonesty. There are several other organizations out t

  • Well, Firefox 4 is getting there [behind Safari WebKit [not Safari 5.0.5 which is off a much older branch], Google Chrome, Epiphany 3.0, etc] but I guess somehow they will fix Elements, Forms, Microdata, Security, Communications, Files, and Local Devices all by June? Get real.

The following statement is not true. The previous statement is true.