Looking Back On a Year of LibreOffice 242
superapecommando writes "Simon Phipps, former head of open source at Sun and a backer of LibreOffice, looks at a tempestuous year for the OpenOffice fork. 'Once framed as an impetuous fork, LibreOffice has become the standard-bearer for the former OpenOffice community,' he says. 'It's far from perfect, of course. New open source projects never are and volunteer projects lack the corporate resources to make it look otherwise. But I have no doubt that it's working.'"
Lotus Symphony (Score:2)
After seeing a post on here, Ive switched to Lotus Symphony, which I have been much happier with. It feels like a much better replacement to me, and I now use it full time over Open or Libre Office.
Re: (Score:3)
don't you have to give your name/email to IBM and agree to the license before you can use Lotus Symphony?
Re: (Score:2)
yeah but it's the principle of the thing....
Great improvements this year (Score:3)
I switched immediately after the fork and have been really happy. I had to use NeoOffice before because OpenOffice is completely unusable on MacOSX.
Re: (Score:2)
I've been happy with it, enough that I'd say that it's the best thing to happen to OpenOffice.org in years. But seriously, it's been a year and they still haven't come up with a decent name? The whole 'Libre' thing was supposed to be temporary!
*sigh* I know, this is the same type of folks who still think the GIMP is well named.
Re: (Score:2)
Working For Me (Score:2)
I still have OOo on my Linux box, and switched my Mac to LibreOffice a month or two ago. I don't spend a huge amount of time in Libre on the Mac, but it worked great for one 250 page spec document and a few smaller pieces.
All That I use (Score:5, Interesting)
When I upgraded Ubuntu to natty LibreOffice came with it. I can honestly say that I haven't opened up Excel or Word for weeks. LO opens all of my existing files, with formatting unchanged, and works flawlessly. Plus it has that glorious one button PDF export, which in the past was so good that I would write in Word, save, and then open in OO just to use it.
For most people who use a lot of Word or Excel, but not the more exotic functions, I'd say try LibreOffice. It's fast, and does great job. It's what OO always tried to be, but failed.
Disclaimer: I still miss WordPerfect 5.1 and Reveal Codes.
Re: (Score:2)
As for PDF generation, I've gotta tell you that I still use PDFCreator. Yeah, OOo / LO has that button, but I've found that PDFCreator makes them a bit slimmer in terms of file size. Install it now from sf.net and you won't find yourself changing from MS to LO just for getting a snazzy PDF.
Re: (Score:3)
I stopped using PDFCreator back when their SF installer started coming with malware auto-installed, even if you said no to the browser bar.
Instead, I use the MS plugin for Office which supplies PDF as a save as option.
Re: (Score:2)
I stopped using PDFCreator back when their SF installer started coming with malware auto-installed, even if you said no to the browser bar.
Instead, I use the MS plugin for Office which supplies PDF as a save as option.
I completely understand, and I'm by no means a fan of apps installing browser crap of one kind or another. However, if you're careful and say "no", it won't install the browser / BHO crap. Foxit PDF I think also is another free product that comes with potential crapware, but I've just learned (and re-learned!) to be careful installing pretty much anything at all.
Re: (Score:2)
Aren't OO and LibreOffice currently the same? I read the changelogs and didn't see much differences in terms of compatibilities. Maybe I missed them?
Re: (Score:2)
"Plus it has that glorious one button PDF export, which in the past was so good that I would write in Word, save, and then open in OO just to use it."
Wouldn't "Save As" directly from Word have been easier? Just select PDF as the filetype and you're good to go...
I'm still trying to get LibreOffice to scroll properly with Thinkpads... no scrolling => tedious navigation => me pulling my hair out.
Office 2010 on the other hand, while expensive, works quite well and provides a lot of functions that just don
Re: (Score:2)
When I upgraded Ubuntu to natty LibreOffice came with it. I can honestly say that I haven't opened up Excel or Word for weeks. LO opens all of my existing files, with formatting unchanged, and works flawlessly
Do you get many Office 2010 files? We often get sent them at work as most of the corporate world is on MS and it often gives me issues when opening or saving them and formatting going a bit wrong. I would like to move away from Ms Office as I am loathe to learn that crazy ribbon thing but unless I can 100% rely on Libre Office or Open Office to always create or save a file that opens perfectly in Ms Office then I just can't use it.
Disclaimer: I still miss WordPerfect 5.1 and Reveal Codes.
Here here.
Re: (Score:2)
I just pulled up Word 2000: Shift+F1, big question mark comes on screen. Click on anything, even text, and get its help or formatting. Starting in Word XP (aka 2002), they popped that into the task pane to the right.
To be fair, most of the time you don't want to see the formatting as much as whack some formatting you didn't want. CTRL+Space will remove any font formatting on text, w
Runs much better, but (Score:3)
Been using it since the fork (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
LibreOffice has been pretty solid for me over this past year, though I wish it had better support for DOCX...
I wish MS Office for the Mac supported DOCX better. Granted I don't have the very latest, but it's horrendous on older versions. Of course, Mac MS Office can't really read any complex Word or Excel files from the PC properly and they are from the same company.
Re: (Score:2)
You shouldn't be using docx, it's not a legitimate standard and it's definitely not interoperable the way that ODT files are.
Ultimately, it's ISO's fault for forgetting that it's a standards organization and that competing standards are really not as useful as ones that are compatible across software programs. Well, that and refusing to acknowledge and properly deal with the voting irregularities involved with OOXML being accepted as a standard.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"I typically use MS Office but I really didn't feel like paying for yet ANOTHER licence of it"
I don't pay for software from corporations which annoy me. If I need it I download it.
There is no reward for behaving differently towards our masters, so grab what crumbs you can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q [youtube.com]
Lacking templates (Score:2, Interesting)
I was an OO user, but switched to LibreOffice when Debian made the switch. I've been happy the few times I've used it.
Over the years, while trying to sell the idea of OO or LO to clients and friends, I've not had much success. Other than the ridiculous gripe they've had about not saving new documents as MS
LibreOffice on OS X Lion (Score:2)
LibreOffice works well enough on OS X Lion as does OpenOffice.org. However, neither of them are a native OS X application with the look and feel and this is a reasonable deal breaker for me. Plus it's not as fast as MS Office running under VMWare Fusion!
DSL
Re: (Score:2)
LibreOffice works well enough on OS X Lion as does OpenOffice.org. However, neither of them are a native OS X application with the look and feel and this is a reasonable deal breaker for me. Plus it's not as fast as MS Office running under VMWare Fusion!
DSL
So, it works ok, but it doesn't look right on OS X, so your solution is running Windows' MS Office? Just trying to follow the logic here.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
LibreOffice and OpenOffice both still seem really heavy. Java probably has something to do with it, but they just aren't nice to use. On top of that the UI starts to get kind of old.. I started using Office 2010 just lately and I have to say I love the Ribbon interface. It keeps useless stuff out of the screen and is fast and pleasant to use. It takes some time to get used to, but once you do there's no going back to the old clumsy interfaces.
I agree with the Heavy and the Java bit - But no, I do not want a ribbon!
I use OO
Customisable toolbars = yes but a ribbon and no menu - No thank you.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Because every time you add a choice you double the QA time? Because sometimes the new method is so much more better than the old, that leaving the old in feels like a disservice to your customers?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:It feels too heavy and old (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrified of change – no.
To me, the ribbon is an oversized tool taking up too much space, displaying too much information and has been change for change sake.
When it comes to supporting users. The ribbon is seen by many as a drastic change. The people who it took years to get used to the idea of looking in one place for information now need to get used to looking elsewhere.
I like the idea of a customisable toolbar (much like Office 2007+ Quick Access Toolbar) but coupled with Menus. I want less clutter on my screen, not more.
Menus keep relative functions stored in a neat and accessible way until needed. They encourage the learning of keyboard shortcuts through their underlining and display rather than having to rely on pop ups.
Menus keep relative functions stored in a neat and accessable way until needed. They encourage the learning of keyboard shortcuts through their underlining and display rather than having to rely on pop ups.
Re: (Score:2)
To me, the ribbon is an oversized tool taking up too much space, displaying too much information and has been change for change sake.
Menus keep relative functions stored in a neat and accessible way until needed.
Yes.
Re:It feels too heavy and old (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you have a reason, or are you just terrified of change?
I can't speak for the GP, but I want more screen real estate, as well as consistency without having to do different things depending on what "mode" I'm in. Ribbons defeat both.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
As much as MS products disgust me in general, I have to agree they didn't fail too hard on Office 2010 (Well, I use Office 2011 for Mac when I use Office, but...). I also agree that LibreOffice/OpenOffice.org feels kinda clunky and gross. I use them all the time on Linux and OpenSolaris, but... damn, does OpenOffice make my old SunBlade 1500 crawl. And they're not that much better on a new Core i5 laptop running Debian. I don't care about the startup lag inherent in JVM bootstrapping, but I feel like they'r
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:It feels too heavy and old (Score:4, Insightful)
I have to agree about the heft. But I prefer the "old" style interface. I had to install Office 2007 to interact with some clients and I am completely lost. I've been using word processors since the C64 days, but this is the first time I decades that I have stared blankly at a program and had to click on every menu/button/active splotch trying to find out how to turn on Track Changes.
Of course, people can get used to the interface and maybe following the mythical transition, I will be enamored with its interface glory. But it just seems different for difference's sake...like .docx and .xlsx where.
To the LibreOffice folks, you really need to do a top-down performance/memory analysis. I like it and will continue to use it, but I don't see why it needs to be the resource hog it is.
Re: (Score:2)
Excell 2007 is way better than 2003, what locks people into the ribbon interface. After a bit of using (and changing the default configuration) most people get used to the ribbon and stop being inconvenienced, but I still think it is not better than the old menus in any way (and for other applications - e.g. AutoCad - lack of hierarchy is killer).
Re: (Score:2)
If you want to edit , i.e, REVIEW a document
Edit != Review.
Spend some money on a 22" or larger screen.
Where do you work that They buy anything you want any time you want?
Java Not Required (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
A year ago
How ironic that CritterNYC said that "The rest of LibreOffice has no Java components", you complain about OpenOffice.org from one year ago and this topic is on the of LibreOffice.
Your FAIL is Big, Fat, Hairy and smells like Stupid.
Re: (Score:2)
LibreOffice and OpenOffice both still seem really heavy. Java probably has something to do with it, but they just aren't nice to use. On top of that the UI starts to get kind of old.. I started using Office 2010 just lately and I have to say I love the Ribbon interface. It keeps useless stuff out of the screen and is fast and pleasant to use. It takes some time to get used to, but once you do there's no going back to the old clumsy interfaces.
Yes I know this is bordering on flame-bait and is ill-informed at best but for those people who don't know and want to counter comments like this:
From the Fedora 15 DVD (size is in kB):
[root@XXXX Packages]# ls libreoffice* | grep -v libreoffice-langpack | xargs du -sk
7548 libreoffice-calc-3.3.2.2-7.fc15.x86_64.rpm
79896 libreoffice-core-3.3.2.2-7.fc15.x86_64.rpm
653 libreoffice-draw-3.3.2.2-7.fc15.x86_64.rpm>br> 220 libreoffice-graphicfilter-3.3.2.2-7.fc15.x86_64.rpm
996 libreoffice-impress-3.3.
Re: (Score:2)
Most packages in Linux use ether "apt-get" or "yum" and most updates use what is called "delta's"
Don't know about the RPM world, but there are no DEB deltas.
Re: (Score:2)
It's unofficial, only works for Stable and was broken for 3 years.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm almost positive that the GP didn't mean file size when he said heavy. Notice he said that it "feels" heavy, which means he was probably referring to the UI.
Although at least you responded with something more constructive than "fuck you", or calling the GP an astroturfer (with no evidence to support it), or simply modding the post as troll. So I give you credit for that. Some of the other posters in this thread (and the moderators) should be ashamed of themselves.
Re: (Score:2)
He just meant that his laptop weighs more when LibreOffice is installed
Re:It feels too heavy and old (Score:4, Interesting)
The org I work for shells out for MSDN subscription for me. I get Office 2010 for FREE and still use LibreOffice. My needs are simple and do not include learning a new interface.
Java? (Score:3)
Maybe someone with more real-world experience using Java can clarify this for me.
When I look into Java's performance, I see lots of cases where it's "nearly as fast as compiled C/C++ code" etc. The (narrowly-defined) numbers do look pretty good. Yet I have a similar experience: most applications I use which are partially or wholly written in Java feel slow, particularly in terms of UI responsiveness.
Is this actually a contradiction? Is there anyone who incorpor
Re:Java? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Java? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Are you claiming that py2exe doesn't exist? Or are you trying to make a larger, grossly misinformed point about the architecture of modern computation?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
You can't create a stand alone app. That makes it a non-language. You're just a script kiddie.
I'll just put this out there, who cares? Even in "The C Programming Language" K&R state it's more important to have good, working code than fast code.* Only after 'it works' should you worry about optimization. So, if you're not optimizing your code, what's to stop you from prototyping in python? Or, for that matter, doing any of the many other tasks that don't require byte code. (For instance, python + sqlite work GREAT as a replacement to excel/access. There's also scipy.)
So what if you can't write mi
Re: (Score:2)
I'm no fan of Python, but that's a strange definition. You can embed the entire Python interpreter (which is shockingly bad code - anything that generates valgrind errors before you even get to main() should not be allowed anywhere near a CPU) in an executable, along with the code. You can compile it to Java or .NET bytecode, making it as stand-alone as any application that requires a VM. You could probably compile it to native code - Unladen Swallow did this with a JIT, but there's no reason why you can
Re: (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
The problem here isn't with Java, it's with Swing (Java's native GUI toolkit). Swing is terribly slow. Applications written in Java with another toolkit, such as SWT or Qt, are fine. Azureus, for example, is a fairly popular BitTorrent client that is written in Java/SWT. (to be fair, the application itself is pretty bloated, but that has little to do with Java and more to do with the developers cramming in every feature under the sun)
Personally I've found that application horribly slow to respond and extremely resource intensive, most like any other Java app I run into. uTorrent FTW, or KTorrent when I was on KDE. The only Java app I know to run well is a huge web-based server system, and it works like a 747 - horribly big to get off the air, but can carry hundreds of people as easily as the first one. The enterprise stuff works, as desktop software it's still meh. I use a lot of C++/Qt though and that's snappy, haven't run into a Java/
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Benchmarks lie. That's really all there is to it.
Re: (Score:2)
More to the point, creating a fair benchmark is really hard. Microbenchmarks are really misleading. For example, C++ does really well on some because templates turn into inlined functions. This doesn't scale though, because lots of inlined functions also mean that your code is bigger and so you start getting instruction cache misses, which cripple performance. You can write a small library using templates and again using virtual functions, and the version using templates will be much faster in microbenc
Re:Java? (Score:5, Informative)
As others have pointed out, the main Java GUI (SWING) is a real pig. This is a result of Java's "compile once, run anywhere" philosophy colliding with different OS GUIs.
The other problem is that Java's startup time is ridiculous. Load the VM, load the code, load the libraries (*lots* of libraries!), verify the libraries and the code, initialize the libraries (lots of .properties files!) and the code, and then run.
Once the startup hooplah is over, Java code is quite reasonably fast. Benchmarks either minimize the startup time by, say, running 10,000 iterations of a loop, or eliminating it entirely by using "flying start" techniques.
Re: (Score:2)
Is there anyone who incorporates Java into a major desktop application and (in terms of performance) does it well?
The Java version of the [now-Symantec] Veritas NetBackup administration console is a reasonably responsive implementation.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:It feels too heavy and old (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The Ribbon concept
Re:It feels too heavy and old (Score:4, Insightful)
It's no wonder open source isn't going anywhere
That's some pretty serious denial you got going on there.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
You honestly think that for example Microsoft would response to my suggestions with a "fuck you"?
No, but MS fanboys do that all the time on discussion boards. Just like happened here. It doesn't make sense to equate a random idiot on a discussion board with the actual developers of the software.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I agree, and I'd much rather have old, stable, and not $500 (or whatever Office is priced at now.) :)
My needs for office apps at home are light, but LibreOffice/OpenOffice are hefty programs that don't "get in my way" of doing simple, mundane office-like things.
I much prefer it to the microsoft tax anyway (using OpenOffice on my Mac and LibreOffice on my Fedora machine..) The only thing I would say that needs "spit and polish" is, like you said, the ODF format. It's not a deal-breaker for me either. I am gl
Re: (Score:3)
It's free, it's cross-platform, and it's good enough for many tasks.
It certainly could use improvements in many areas, but it does OK.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I semi-agree with that. It's OK for 95% of what I need (revisions printing is a lot less nice than MS Office). What kills it for me is the Office import/export issues, which prevent using it when I know docs will travel around. MS must be happy, that's what they always wanted.
Re: (Score:2)
So you use it because other people are using it?
Well, yes. Unless you're a hermit, doing -- within reason -- what other people do has some pretty darned good merits, us being social animals and whatnot.
I use Linux exclusively at home, but at work it's Windows all the way. Why? Because *They* say so, and They use Exchange, and a VPN and make us PGP encrypt all laptop disks. So if I want a job, I -- within the law -- do what everyone else does.
I'm just different I guess, and I try to avoid the whole group-think mindset.
Actually, you appear to be a know-it-all Uni student.
Re: (Score:2)
So you use it because other people are using it? I'm just different I guess, and I try to avoid the whole group-think mindset.
The parent said he couldn't always use LO/OO because export/import isn't perfect and his documents sometimes travel to those who are not using OO/LO.
So are you seriously giving him grief about a "group-think mindset"?
Welcome to society. Not all of us are like you, a hermit completely cut off from all mankind and free to use only our preferred software. Sometimes we have to work collaboratively with other people and the most commonly used software sometimes wins.
Re: (Score:2)
The ribbon bar in Excel and Word 2007 just aggravate the shit out of me. It's why I stick with go-OO 3.2.1 on Windows.
Re: (Score:2)
I love the ribbon bar; I feel way more productive than with the old crappy menus and toolbars. OO looks and feel more like Word for Windows 2.0. It's really jarring using it, but a really good reminder of what people hated about WFW.
Re: (Score:2)
It only seems that way if you're used to using Office. I'll use Office for a short period of time now and again and the organization is pretty ridiculous. It's not unusual for me to spend 20 minutes or more figuring out how to get it to stop autocorrecting things. I forget where that particular thing is located, but last time I checked it was absolutely buried.
As for TOC, you can do that in Libreoffice, same goes for paragraph styles. I'm not sure about the other bits though.
As for buying an old copy of 200
Re: (Score:2)
Also Office 2003 is something like 8 years older than the latest release of LibreOffice. Of course if you like the old MS Office then
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I use Open Office (and now LibreOffice) exclusively for my home publishing needs. I've published several books, all with TOC, cross references, comments, alphabetized indexes, using paragraph styles, in-line images, tables, and so forth.
I'm surprised by the amount of people who use a page-centric application for something like writing books, whether it be Word or Write. If it works for you, great, but to me it seems like painting with Crayons and Sharpies because that's what you have.
No offense meant.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't see you suggesting anything better nor do I see you mentioning anything *about* writing books that suggests to me that you've actually done it.
I've written and/or edited a number of them.
I've actually grown to prefer DocBook XML, which lets me concentrate on content and semantics without being distracted by styles, but OOO has worked just fine for this.
Therefore, I have to wonder whether you're just trolling.
No offence meant, of course.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't see you suggesting anything better nor do I see you mentioning anything *about* writing books that suggests to me that you've actually done it.
1: I did not want to turn this thread into a slugfest about which program was best. I still don't. I mentioned the type of writing application, and expect those interested to do their own research and not take my word for it.
2: I have a well-established alias here, which I prefer not be linked to my writing. But since you seem intent on pulling rank, I've written both technical articles and manuals, as well as short stories and a novel. But that's rather irrelevant.
Re: (Score:2)
Stay away from MS Office on ebay. The vast majority of software is either pirated or OEM (not legal for resale). I got burnt buying a sealed box that from the images looked legit, with the seller having very positive feedback; however, when received and on closer inspection, the box and CD were a very good Chinese counterfeit, but counterfeit nonetheless.
This message brought to you by Microsoft. Please people - before you bid, remember that Microsoft has revenue targets to meet.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Libre Light? (Score:4, Insightful)
Honestly, I think you could strip out 60% of it and it would serve most average users quite well for home use
That would be AbiWord.
Re: (Score:2)
That would be AbiWord.
Also, in the same Gnome Office family you have Gnumeric, which fulfills most of my spreadsheeting needs. Neither of them has all of the features of the bigger cousins, for example the formatting in Word files is usually wrong. But for getting the message from a file someone sent you, they are faster than waiting for the other Offices to open.
(Frankly, I think the entire WYSIWYG Office metaphor is broken. Especially when most of the text is never actually printed, so why should it look like paper. Having
Re: (Score:2)
I've often wondered if anyone has ever thought about splitting libre into a personal and a professional version.
Why? They both cost the same (ie. free) and if you as a user don't want to use the more professional features then you don't need to use them. In addition creating so called personal and profession versions is counter productive since you will require more people to do this and like anything of this nature who is going to decide what is "personal" and what is "professional"? It would be "pass the popcorn" if you attend when the two committees meet.
The full LibreOffice is approx 101MB (part of the latest d
Re: (Score:2)
Because explaining to your semi-litterate cousin from the booon-docks what happened when he/she accidentally clicked on one of them thar incomprehensible options would no longer keep you from a cold beer on warm summer nights.
Re: (Score:2)
Although I wouldn't ever dismiss such things as "never going to happen", the point is that 99% of people who have Office installed (or, worse, go out and buy it separately) have every need they'll ever have for a office suite catered for by LibreOffice.
Personally, it's more than good enough for anything I ever used Office for and when I take into account the cost, I'm more than happy to fiddle a little more with a free product than pay to save a tiny bit of rare inconvenience. To be honest, LibreOffice act
Re: (Score:2)
In fact, I don't know that I've ever made a pivot chart at home, and didn't even know what they were still I started working in business (ugh).
In the business world, though, I've needed a lot of the obscure bells and