PR Firm Unwisely Tangles With Penny Arcade 419
New submitter FSWKU writes "Courtesy of Penny-Arcade, Paul Christoforo of Ocean Marketing provides a perfect example of what not to do when interacting with customers, especially if you are doing so on behalf of another company. There's name dropping, an ego trip worthy of Charlie Sheen, and even what appears to be a promise to commit libel. Other outlets are already picking up the story and running with it, and an examination of Ocean Marketing's website has generated accusations of plagiarism."
Don't kid yourself (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Don't kid yourself (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Don't kid yourself (Score:4)
On the other hand Penny-Arcade must be earning a boatload of money from it. Their site is slashdotted to hell which means that in spite of them being one of the more popular webcomics on the net, they are getting overloaded.
Must be a lot more of ad impressions going on in there then on normal day.
Re:Don't kid yourself (Score:4, Informative)
It's not just Slashdot. Reddit, Digg, Kotaku, 1up and a slew of other websites are all linking back to PA. Effectively it's an unintentional DDOS.
Re:Don't kid yourself (Score:4, Informative)
https://twitter.com/#!/oceanstretagy
Not?
https://twitter.com/#!/oceanstratagy
Notice the difference between stretagy and stratagy? It's a troll. (And the `autistic' bit gives it away as a member of a certain imageboard, probably).
Re: (Score:3)
Paul Christoforo has apologized to the customer and to Penny Arcade, and also asks them to please tell people to stop sending hate male
They're sending mysandrists?
A classic example... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well he did get a lot of PR so that is debatable.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, lots of (bad) PR, and is probably going to bankrupt his clients. This particular interaction, combined with name dropping and poor spelling / grammar, ranks up there with a PR nightmare. He might as well have said that his much-awaited product was made with using parts left over from Chernobyl and orphan child labor, at a UNICEF convention. Ocean's various semi-hidden threats of violence really adds a certain flair to the discussion.
And I have an undying urge to short the stock of Ocean's clients; were I one of Ocean's clients, I would be taking the steel wool and matches approach to my relationship with Ocean.
But seriously, I think everyone on /. needs to chip in, and buy this guy some spelling lessons:
"OK Mike whatever you say lol , are you sure hour not in Boston I spoke to the person who ran the show in Boston last year. If you let some little kid influence you over a pre order then we don’t want to be a your show ,Ill be on the floor anyway so come find me , I’m born and raised in Boston I know the people who run the city inside and out watch the way you talk to people you never know who they know it’s a small industry and everyone knows everyone. Your acting like a douchbag not that it matters pax east pax west , e3 , CES , Gamer Con , SSXW ,Comic Con, Germany I’m all over the place. If we want to be there we will be there with industry badges or with a booth you think I can’t team up with turtle beach , Callibur or Koy Christmas , I can’t get Kevin Kelly to pull some strings or G4 , Paul Eibler Ex CEO of take 2 , Rich Larocco Konami , Cliff Blizinski Epic who were working with on a gears version , Activision who were working with on a MW3 and Spider man Bundle , The Convention Center Owners themselves , Mayor of Boston come on Bud you run a show that’s all you do and lease a center in Cities you have no pull in its all about who you know not what you do. I’ll see space where ever I want , with who I want when I want and where I want so many ways around you and so many connections in this industry its silly. Anyway , I have no issue with you Sean Buckley Engadget, Scott Lowe IGN and the list goes on and on. Little kids unhappy with a PRE ORDER starting trouble and you email that to us , he’s a customer unless you’re his boyfriend then you should side with the company not the customer. Be Careful"
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Funny)
~Paul Christoforo
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A classic example... (Score:4)
He does seem like the blowhard/BSer/sales/marketing type, but there's a big difference between being Full of S--t and being a S--thead
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
He does seem like the blowhard/BSer/sales/marketing type, but there's a big difference between being Full of S--t and being a S--thead
And there is also a power-balance issue. The big marketing cahuna should not be a dick to the little customer. Big guys stomping down on little guys is a big no-no according to righteousness 101.
If a little customer would be a dick to a marketing representative of some business it wouldn't matter. They should just reply respectfully and calmly and maybe laugh about it with the coworkers by the watercooler.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Informative)
N-Control did end up firing this guy.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but the real question is, did they sack those responsible for hiring this guy?
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Funny)
No, the real question is: have those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked been sacked?
Re:A classic example... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Meh, if that's all it is then it's not that bad. It's obvious the guy is some sort of ADHD type guy, which a lot of marketing/business/public relations people are.
Did you even RTFA? I think ADHD is being a little generous; more like fucking retarded. I have never once in my life seen an exchange quite like that between a professional in any industry and a paying customer! They fucking train minimum-wage counter jockies at McDonalds better customer service skills than that idiot displayed. Even the most meaningless marketing double-speak is better than that shit, because at least that's polite...
Then, of course, when he realizes he's talking to Gabe, instead of that adult sense of self-preservation we so often see when someone realizes they seriously fucked up, he starts fucking arguing with him, belittling a customer to a guy with a website seen by millions of people daily.
If this is "not all that bad", I really need to see an example that fits your definition of "that bad". Does the guy have to fuck his mother? Kill his dog? How much worse can a Customer Service/Public Relations scenario get without involving direct bodily harm or, at the very least, multiple felonies?
Man, I wish I worked for this marketing firm, if only to see the shit-storm from the inside. The fact that they even hired someone that responds to a customer in such a fashion is ridiculous. I don't give a shit if you work in an "edgy" field or one that's primary demographic is children and young adults (as if that were even the case with gaming, but supposing it is); obviously the people buying the goddamned things are adults. You're not writing an email to one of your dickhead coworkers. It's not an IM. It's an official communication with a paying customer, an unhappy paying customer at that. Put on your "big boy hat" and write a professional email. Proper grammar and punctuation is not a suggestion...not unless you want to make yourself look like even more of a retard.
Just one more company to add to the "Never Do Business With These Clowns" list.
Re:A classic example... (Score:4, Informative)
Kotaku pegged it to roid rage [kotaku.com]. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he's just incompetent.
Either way - nightmare for the PR firm, nightmare for the controller company, nobody wins.
It's bad...but there is far worse (Score:5, Interesting)
If this is "not all that bad", I really need to see an example that fits your definition of "that bad".
Clearly it is bad...but there is worse: Gerald Ratner's after dinner speech [wikipedia.org]. Ratner's used to be a high street jewelry store in the UK. This one speech wiped ~500 million pounds (possibly over $1 billion dollars with the 1991 exchange rate - even more in today's money allowing for inflation) off the value of the company, almost causing it to collapse.
...so even when it comes to disasters this guy is still not all that great!
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
True but everyone in the whole exchange came off like a childish douchbag, not just that one PR guy
Right, but the customer is almost expected to be childish. The PR rep is expected to be professional. It's actually part of the job description: "professional interaction with customers".
Re: (Score:3)
ADD isn't a diffability, it's an extrability.
But yeah, they're insensitive clods.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Having ADHD is no excuse for poor grammar, especially for a marketing/business/public relations "professional" sending a message, in his official capacity, to a customer!
Re:A classic example... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm sorry, but no.
*I* have ADHD. And I don't act like that. Neither does he have Tourettes, or any other popular psych label that people throw about like confetti now-a-days. The guy is a flaming asshole, end of story.
I'm glad he's getting lynched. The only disappointing thing is that it probably won't turn his thinking around. Maybe if this happens to him a couple more times...
If people like this got ripped new ones more often, then the world would be a much better place.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not just the drugs, he really does have psychological issues. Notice how in both his apologies he mentioned making the mistake of underestimating the people he was replying to, demonstrating a total lack of remorse. He's not sorry for what happened, his only concerns are the career-ending consequences. Bullshit apologies are expected as standard procedure for damage control in situations like these, but normal people tend to adopt a stance that the public can empathize with.
Re: (Score:3)
Indeed. A general rule employed by the more intelligent people in IT is to assume that your email can and will be forwarded, so it pays to take an extra 5 minutes composing it. Mistakes may be made, and they will be at some point in your career, but they can be mitigated. Why this particular man is fielding customer relations is beyond me; a basic interview, let alone the first week of work, should have had him banned from speaking directly to the customers. Though there is information to suggest he owns th
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Interesting)
Yep. The only time "bad" PR is good PR is when it is outrage by a small segment or manufactured entirely. So like when some people got up in arms about the nuke scene in Call of Duty 4, it wasn't actually bad PR. While those people were complaining and the media was reporting on it, the controversy made gamers say "I need to see that!" The actual customers were interested and thus it was good PR in reality.
When you get PR for something like this, or for criminal activity or whatever it is just flat out bad PR. It scares customers away and you never want that.
Re: (Score:3)
From what I understand, the controller was designed so that people with severe hand deformities could play. To somebody who has regular hands, it might look strange but I'm sure for somebody who has fingers been 90 degrees the wrong way, it could be a god send.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
The original X-Box contoller was designed for people with two thumbs on their right hand. Apart from that I'm amazed how sturdy it is. I went through a couple of joy stick on Summer Games alone and yet this beast still keeps going on. Ezio, Batman, The Kid... it helped me see them all through.
I don't trust that new contraption to be as sturdy but they are at least trying to solve that two-thumb problem.
Next step:
-a mouse that has a scroll wheel and a middle button that doesn't interfere with it while aknowledging the fact I have a ring finger and a pinkie that are fully functional
-a game controller which does the above and also aknowledges I've got a middle finger which I'd be quite oblidged to show the fine folks of Razr, Logitech, Saitek, Microsoft and co.
-a self-cleaning litter box for the cat that doesn't scare the litter out of me
A man has gotta dream.
Re: (Score:2)
My guess is that no one who has an interest in moving this cheap chinese hardcrap inventory is not laughing. This guy irreparably damaged sales and the brand image.
Re: (Score:2)
Damn.. double negatives... but "I love the PR! LOL! " ...
How to live in denial. (Score:5, Informative)
Today, I saw all the posts and reviews at amazon, and canceled my order. I commented that the reviews on amazon had bottomed out, and that I had lost all confidence in the product and company. The reply I got was simply "It's spam". Yeah, 128 1-star reviews from different people, and it's spam. This guy is already living in his own universe.
Re:How to live in denial. (Score:5, Informative)
I hope these kooks come to "SSXW" in Spring of 2012 as promised.
Seth
Re:How to live in denial. (Score:4, Funny)
Ever heard of imports, and people shipping overseas as gifts? Nah, probably not. Get back under your bridge, troll.
Paul, is that you?
Denial of Denial is what? (Score:5, Insightful)
The reply I got was simply "It's spam"
Here's the problem: I'd bet money that at least 1/2 of those *are* spam. Vindictive pricks who bomb the shit out of product review scores are becoming more common. They'll negatively review products they've never seen from companies or people they've never spoken to because of the author/companies political views, PR gaffs, a nerd-o-sphere uproar like this, etc. They'll organize campaigns to bomb the reviews of every single book from an author or every product from an entire corporation for purely political or vengeful reasons. We've discussed this problem on slashdot many times before.
These self-righteous bastards view it as some kind of justice, when in fact they're just polluting the review ecosystem with lies, hearsay, and crappy manifestos. If the product or company is that bad it will become clear, from the legitimate reviews, quite quickly. No need to break out your weird brand of street justice and fuck up the system for everyone.
This time the people at Ocean Marketing are arrogant, mismanaging pricks; most of the time you can't be so certain when you see this kind of event unfolding.
Honestly, when I was reading the Penny-Arcade post I started wondering whether this was really just a vengeful ex-employee, or even corporate espionage from another vendor. It wasn't until I read multiple older reviews and forum posts corroborating this story that I became convinced otherwise.
Beware internet justice: you never really know who's behind the keyboard or just what kind of destructive, ignorant campaign they're running.
Re:How to live in denial. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not really finding it funny. One guy isn't getting stuff he needed to give gifts for christmas. Other guy just lost his livelihood to a stupid and unprofessional emotional outburst.
Finally the guy who invented a harness that made playing more accessible to disabled kids is getting smeared all across the sites for things he had little to do with.
I'd say this is mostly a tragedy of how internet rage can fuck up lives of people that don't deserve it, and those who do deserve it get a whole lot more fucking up then they should (guy's wife and child apparently getting hit by internet mob now).
And in the end, the original guy is still not getting the stuff he wanted for christmas. Everyone loses, and I really find that quite tragic rather then funny.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm with you on the guy who designed the controller being unfairly caught in this, but how do you see "one guy just lost his livelihood to a stupid and unprofessional emotional outburst" as a tragedy?
That is exactly how one loses their livelihood. That's the process of screwing up so badly you get booted from the profession. That's what it entails. When your job is to work with people, and you screw up politeness as royally as that guy did, if you don't lose your job then something is very very wrong with the world. Read all the emails, to both Dave the customer and Gabe at PA, and Paul's "apologies". It's quite clear this guy doesn't give a crap until he's caught. Also this appears not to be the first time he's been called out on this type of exchange with customers. How many do-overs do you expect him to get in his professional life?
He fucked up his job about as badly as one can fuck up their job, by shitting all over the customer, and then shitting all over one of the major PR outlets in the market for the product he was representing.
In any measure of the situation, he deserves to be fired and ostracized from the market in the future for his failure. That isn't tragedy, that is justice. Let him get in the unemployment line and maybe somebody competent, worthy, and sane can step in to fill the role he obviously is not fit to handle.
Re: (Score:3)
My point was that it's tragic for all involved (including the guy who fucked up), and the only ones having fun are the internet mob members who like to laugh at other peoples' misfortune.
I wasn't trying to take a stance defending or attacking anyone involved.
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm with you on everyone but the guy who did it. Did you read the emails? And the dates on all of them? This isn't an outburst, bad day, roid rage, ADHD, etc. This guy is a 100% pure bullshit artist. If you've never met this type in real life, consider yourself lucky. Every word out of their mouths is bullshit meant to improve their image and make themselves seem more important, and there isn't the slightest bit of substance to any of it. They will not genuinely reform or recant because of something like this, they'll just spew even more bullshit. He seems to be backing down for now only because there is a virtual gun to his head. He will behave well exactly as long as that gun is there and not one second longer. He deserves everything he's getting and then some more. He might genuinely reform some day, but don't believe it without lots of hard evidence from multiple people other than him.
I feel a little sorry also for the wife and kid who may not have known what they were getting into by getting involved with this guy, but hopefully they'll learn what he's really like now.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes, I'm sure kid is sorry that his mom got involved with his dead. Being born into this world sucks. Do you even read what you're writing?
Fun part: I was replying to the guy who said how funny this whole incident is. I point out that all of those participating are actually suffering one way or another and the only ones having fun are the internet mob members. Where the hell did I actually say that the guy losing his job is unjustified?
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Insightful)
Other guy just lost his livelihood to a stupid and unprofessional emotional outburst.
If he were a truck driver, or a factory worker, I would agree that he shouldn't suffer this penalty.
But he isn't. He is in the business of public relations. He just lost his job because he couldn't do it.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:A classic example... (Score:4, Funny)
I'm hearing now that it's a hoax.
Paul, is that you? Loving the nickname :)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
MacHeist was claiming it was their hoax. They were lying, and were called out.
I guess one company's funeral is a good place to meet new clients and score some page views?
What's also important to note, is that the product itself doesn't deserve this. This PR company may need to burn to the ground, but the controller, designed for disabled kids, by a school teacher, should be spared .. don't you guys agree?
Re: (Score:3)
he did not hire douchebags, the scumbag comapny to market and make it basically stole his idea and hired losers like this cristofo to market it. the guy who designed it told a lot of people at the company that took it over that the guy was an ass and this would happen.
honestly, what is funny is that someone took over the scumbags twitter account, and it seems his life is a digital hell right now. I'm watching and making more popcorn, this has really blow up my productivity for the day, It's like watch
Re:A classic example... (Score:5, Informative)
Yeah, I gotta quit wading around in the Twitter during meetings. Not can I now not find the original hoax-claim, I'm seeing the Kotaku article indicating that it's just so, so, so much better than a hoax [kotaku.com] -- yeah, really at a loss as to how this could get better. But I am willing to wait and see, yeah.
sounds like sears inventory system (Score:2)
That must be way they plan to close between 100 and 120 Sears and Kmart stores.
Dave with a V (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dave with a V (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Dave with a V (Score:5, Funny)
Dave: Give me my money back, Paul.
Paul: I'm sorry, Dan. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Wow (Score:3, Insightful)
From the article:
"You placed a pre order just like any software title the gets a date moved due to the tweaks and bugs not being worked out and GameStop or any other place holds your cash and im sure you don’t complain to activision or epic games so put on your big boy hat and wait it out like everyone else."
-----------
Well, now your little tirade has been Slashdotted. I hope you take your pwning like a big boy.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the thing I can't wrap my mind around; no matter how stupid you think the customer's complaint is, you treat them with respect. There is nothing whatsoever to be gained by being an asshole to a paying customer. There can be no positive outcome...at the very least, you just lost potential sales, and at worst, you just cost yourself a job. No matter what happens, you lose.
This isn't even really a customer service thing necessarily. It's simple logic. Even the most patronizing, insincere apology from a major company without a death wish is at least polite. I've gotten some politely worded 'Go Fuck Yourself' responses in the past, but I have never seen something so outright hostile, nor stupid, on behalf of an employee for a professional marketing firm in my life. Typically you have to get your hands on leaked internal emails to see retarded shit like this as regards a customer.
I've worked in Customer Service for many years, including a stint providing computer tech support to people that, if not for the accent, could have convincingly passed themselves off as recent immigrants from the Brazilian Rain Forest where electricity is wizard shit, and I have never seen or heard an exchange like that. We all think it, but we never say it.
What a fucking idiot this Paul guy is.
Servers just melted (Score:5, Funny)
their servers need to put on their "big boy pants"
Don't pick a fight (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
Dont pick a fight with people who's web servers need to be bigger than yours?
Re:Don't pick a fight (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Don't pick a fight (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't pick a fight with someone who has their own convention.
Re:Don't pick a fight (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't pick a fight with a big company or with people with money or power. Great. In other words, if you are the small man, you are fucked.
This is actually very true. As the small man, you need to do one of two things:
1) Go get money and power and come back later
2) Find someone sympathetic to your cause who has money or power
Dave with a V chose option #2
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Don't pick a fight with a Sicilian when death is on the line...
Re:Don't pick a fight (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the best way to update that for the internet?
...
Help me out here.
"Don't be a dick."
Works anywhere.
the bad side of outsourceing (Score:4, Interesting)
Now maybe if just N-Control had there own Marketing maybe they would not end up as part of this mess.
Re:the bad side of outsourceing (Score:5, Informative)
Apparently N-Control decided to stick with this guy even when they were told not to:
http://kotaku.com/5871400/cut-paul-oceanmarketting-christoforo-a-breakhe-probably-just-has-roid-rage/ [kotaku.com]
To explain the pre-amble, in the article, Paul pretends he's Brandon in an email earlier on:
Hi Joel,
I have been following this story since this morning when someone notified me about what was going on. I did not write that response to you.
Yes, in the past I received email at brandon@avengercontroller.com but even then we were an outsourced marketing agency for N-Control. I no longer receive email at that address because we fired N-Control as a client about 8 months ago due to constant shipping delays (which we had to deal with) and their association with Paul Cristoforo who is a street thug masquerading as a self proclaimed "Marketing Professional". This guy is a complete fool and somehow strong armed his way into working with the company so we walked away. I am not surprised in the slightest bit by what's going on right now. In fact, we told the owners of the company on many occasions that this would eventually happen.
I wasn't going to chime in but since he is replying as me, I can't resist. I personally can't stand him.
Brandon
Sounds like a Sociopath (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously. Re-read the e-mails and ask yourself, "Does this sound like something a sociopath would say?"
If you don't know what a sociopath is, then read Snakes in Suits [amazon.com].
Re:Sounds like a Sociopath (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Sounds like a Sociopath (Score:4, Informative)
Both of these indicators of Antisocial Personality Disorder [wikipedia.org] (sociopathy).
From Wikipedia [emphasis mine]:
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:
1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
Re:Sounds like a Sociopath (Score:5, Informative)
Go PA! (Score:5, Interesting)
Go Penny Arcade! Not only do they run one of the oldest and kickass web comics for games, they run their own gaming convention, their own charity called child's play (its mentioned in the email thread) and they've featured jack thompson on the comic a bunch of times along with the modest video game proposal thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Video_Game_Proposal [wikipedia.org]
Here's the response from an email to them (Score:5, Informative)
Thank you for your email. Due to the overwhelming customer feedback we're getting from the situation with Ocean Marketing we are asking those with specific product related concerns to send emails to customerservice@avengercontroller.co Please know that Ocean Marketing is no longer handling any PR or customer service for our company. We apologize to our customers for Ocean Marketing's remark to one of our customers. We at Kotkin Enterprises know that it's our customers are the true arbiters of our products success and we would never intentionally jeopardize what we see as a relationship between us and our customers. We hope that this incident hasn't put you off of purchasing a truly revolutionary controller. Thank you for expressing your concerns and we hope for your continued support in the future. Kotkin Enterprises Avenger Controller Customer Service Team
How to succeed at PR (Score:3)
1. Spell your companies name wrong many times on your website and twitter, plagiarizing content for your site from other sites. ...
2. Give cryptic responses to a query on the progress of an order from a customer.
3. Go on a trippy, grammar and spelling free email rage with the customer and an owner of a successful and popular website.
4. Threaten the people in step 3 and name drop any important people you met briefly or have no association with what-so-ever.
5.
6. Profit???
Also known as ... how to implode a company overnight.
Re: (Score:3)
Paul Christoforo's LinkedIn Page (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-christoforo/1/295/835 [linkedin.com]
Feel free to use his LinkedIn page to contact those he knows to bring attention to this situation.
Re:Paul Christoforo's LinkedIn Page (Score:5, Interesting)
I almost feel sorry for the PR Guy (Score:3, Insightful)
This should be entertaining to me; it is a pretty sweet burn to someone that appears to deserve his fate. Yet I can't laugh at the exchange; it's like taking joy in reality television. Many people do, but I just feel dirty watching the downward trajectory of humanity. Is the customer that less of a dick? Is his motivation at making this exchange public to help other frustrated gamers or to make revenge so sweet and cold? The motive is probably somewhere closer to revenge than help.
Re: (Score:3)
I stopped feeling any remorse when the guy started making threats. Fuck him.
Re:I almost feel sorry for the PR Guy (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I almost feel sorry for the PR Guy (Score:5, Insightful)
Is the customer that less of a dick? Is his motivation at making this exchange public to help other frustrated gamers or to make revenge so sweet and cold? The motive is probably somewhere closer to revenge than help.
When Mike said he would cancel the dude's booth at Pax if he had one, the customer e-mailed Mike saying that wouldn't be necessary. It doesn't sound like revenge to me. The customer wrote polite e-mails asking for an order status update on something he had already paid for and received a completely unprofessional response. This is actually one of the best uses for the press. When the big guys don't value your two controller purchases, you spread the story to the press so that they can stand to lose a lot more than a two controller order. That ensures every customer is respected.
I should also mention that at this point, boycotting the product is not the correct response. This was a representative for a PR firm which has already been fired by the guys actually selling the project. Mission accomplished, no more punishment is warranted.
Re: (Score:3)
You make a good point. I thought I had read the entire chain, but somehow I missed his responses to Mike. The treatise back to the guy was over-the-top, but he was provoked. *Shrug* The PR guy was so out of his mind stupid (and apparently still appears to be going strong) that it seemed like kicking the mentally disabled.
But I didn't see the chain continue to where "Dave" had calmed down and took the higher road after all. The whole thing still doesn't give me fuzzy feelings for anyone, but my Soap box
Re: (Score:3)
The treatise back to the guy was over-the-top, but he was provoked...But I didn't see the chain continue to where "Dave" had calmed down and took the higher road after all.
Well, don't get me wrong, I'm with you in that the customer didn't exactly behave professionally after he was insulted. However, Dave is not a PR professional, he's a customer. It would be nice if human beings were better than that in general, but I hold the guy who actually gets paid to deal with the customers to a higher standard than I hold a customer who has just been insulted for simply asking when the stuff he has paid for will ship.
I agree that ideally Dave should have kept a cool head through it a
Direct your zeal appropriately (Score:5, Informative)
Don't post negative product reviews to "punish" Paul. It won't (directly, anyhow). It will directly punish the manufacturers of the product, for which Paul is merely a third-party marketing arm. As Dave points out in his emails - the product is great and he truly feels the public should have access to the product. Trying to drive the company which manufactures it into the ground isn't going to help anyone.
Avenger has indicated they'll no longer use OceanMarketing after the events of the past day. This guy should be going down in flames on his own, not taking a great product with him. Sure N-Control, etc, made mistakes working with this guy. Sure, like most companies they saw only the $$$ but this is nothing new or unique to that particular organisation.
Re: (Score:3)
And yet they clearly should have looked at least *a little bit* into the PR firm they hired. Even a cursory glance at their website shows massive copyright infringement and fraudulent credentials.
Re: (Score:3)
"we fired N-Control as a client about 8 months ago due to constant shipping delays (which we had to deal with) and their association with Paul Cristoforo who is a street thug masquerading as a self proclaimed "Marketing Professional". This guy is a complete fool and somehow strong armed his way into working with the company so we walked away. I am not surprised in the slightest bit by what's going on right now. In fact, we told the owners of the company on many occasions that this would eventually happen."
S
FTC Mail Order Rule applies (Score:5, Informative)
The Federal Trade Commission's Mail Order Rule [ftc.gov] applies here. It's real simple:
Staples paid a big fine for this. [directmag.com] So did the Beanie Baby [dmnews.com] people. In the early days of the Internet, a lot of companies were hit by this, because they had web sites accepting orders at high speed, but the back end fulfillment operation was manual and couldn't keep up. Now, most serious online merchants have the ordering system tied to the inventory system, so they stop taking orders when the inventory is used up,
The Bloggess (Score:4, Interesting)
A few months back, TheBloggess got a generic PR Pitch, completely disconnected from what she blogs about. She responded in her usual fashion, by directing them to a page that, in part, had a photo of Wil Wheaton collating papers. (See: http://thebloggess.com/heres-a-picture-of-wil-wheaton-collating-papers/ ) Usually, the PR companies that get this response don't reply or send back a polite response. A VP at this PR firm decided to reply to call her a "bitch". Did I say Reply? I meant Reply All. Including TheBloggess. An e-mail tiff ensued with VP claiming that the TheBloggess should be grateful that they sent her the pitch as their sending pitches to her was what gave her relevancy. She ended the exchange with "Please stand by for a demonstration of relevancy." Then, she blogged and tweeted about it.
Now, if you don't know, TheBloggess is big in the blogging world. She has almost 200,000 followers on Twitter and has a HUGE blog following. Her followers went berserk and inundated the company's Twitter account. Wil Wheaton who had posed for that photo on TheBloggess' site and who has almost 2 million Twitter followers tweeted about it. The PR company was forced to backpedal big time.
Re: (Score:3)
Well they should treat all of their customers nicely, period - even if that customer is, themselves, being a bit of an asshat.
The aspect you mention, though, is pretty frightening. So this is one guy who happened to manage to get a mail through to an influential member of certain social circles and and a shitstorm is the resu
I haven't seen any thing this stupid since ... (Score:3)
Re:This is wrong! (Score:4, Insightful)
These aren't personal e-mails. This is akin to Microsoft telling you to fuck off. One bad employee shouldn't ruin it for the whole company, but who allowed this guy to be part of the team in the first place?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
While I agree with your sentiment, once you send something to someone else, even a letter, it belongs to that person and they can do whatever they want with it... (and Mike's event, PAX East, was mentioned and he was subsequently CC'd into the thread). As for the reasonableness of the participants, the Golder Rule should still apply -- though I'm guilty of ignoring that too sometimes - as are others here on /.
Re: (Score:3)
But to post these private messages without permission and set a mob on the guy is completely unethical.
The guy (Ocean Marketing) was acting in his capacity as a Customer Service representative. Nothing he says is private if the customer doesn't want it to be.
Re:This is wrong! (Score:5, Insightful)
He shot himself in the foot, emptied the clip and then reloaded.
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems to me the customer has a right to be pissed off if the company is screwing him around and then insulting him on top of it.
Re:Counterpoint (Score:4, Insightful)
I really don't understand your logic here. So because the merchandise in question was a "toy" and the shipping deadline was "Christmas", the customer is a child and had no right to be upset that the advertised shipping dates were being grossly missed after he paid full price?
Read the whole exchange again. Dave was being a saint for most of the exchange (much more than I would have been were I in his shoes). He only exploded after the PR guy insulted him.
And the PA dude only kept reminding him that he was one half of Penny Arcade because PR dude was bragging that he knew the guys behind PAX (which he did not).
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Nor is it a valid comment. Anyone writing "Just Wow" or "Wow, Just Wow" is a fucking idiot and needs to stop writing until they pull their head out of their ass.
I never knew that! All I can say is Wow, just wow! Thanks for the enlightenment.
Re:lame (Score:4, Informative)
Internet dick-waving contest extraordinaire. I was with Dave until he wrote this:
In my book this puts Dave in the same douchey category as the Ocean Marketing guy.
Yeah, Dave is leaving this huge mess out there on the internet. If he ever is looking to do work that requires any kind of tact or delicacy, a five minute Google search will get him turned down for it.
Re:what about mail order fraud laws here? (Score:4, Informative)
The FTC "Mail Order Rule" (http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule [ftc.gov]) does apply to phone and internet sales as well.
If you don't have an implied shipping time ("Most orders ship within 48 hours!"), you get a default period of 30 days. That sounds like forever these days, but remember that it has its roots in mail order.
If you can't meet that deadline, you must notify the customer "reasonably quickly", no later than by the promised ship date. You must tell them a revised shipping date or tell them you don't know when it will ship (including the reason for the unknown delay and a statement that the order can be cancelled at any time before it ships). If the delay is less than 30 days, non-response can be considered consent to the delay (which also must be stated).
If you still can't hit that revised shipment date, you need to notify the customer again. With this notice, you must provide a reason for the delay and a new ship date, or a statement that you don't know when it'll ship. With this notice, you must cancel the order if the customer doesn't respond. If the customer agrees to an indefinite wait on any proper notification, you do not need to notify them further.
At any point before the item actually ships, the customer has the right to cancel the order and receive a full and prompt refund, and the company has the right to cancel the order and issue a full refund. If the company believes it won't be able to ship the item, they are required to cancel and refund the order. Any violation is subject to a fine of up to $16,000 from the FTC, as well as mail fraud charges if the Postal Service is involved, and state consumer protection laws.
I'm not sure how the "early December" ship date that Dave got is handled by this. Regardless, I'd say that the 16th is past the "early" part of the month, so he legally should've been notified. Based on the November 3 order date, "early December" might fall under the default 30 days, meaning he should've been notified by December 3. I'd say the seller is definitely in legal hot water regarding the failure to ship, and it could've been avoided with a simple email about the delay.
I saw in comments elsewhere that the Visa and Mastercard agreements don't allow you to charge for an order before it ships, but I don't have any experience to verify that. I would think that it wouldn't be completely outlawed for the purpose of preorders and minor unexpected delays.
Like a lot of others, I think this product seems kind of cool (even if I wouldn't buy one myself). I actually saw it on Microcenter's site while browsing the 12/26 sales. I couldn't really tell what it was based on the thumbnail pic, so I took a little time to check it out. I'm a fan of David Kotkin's original idea behind this, and it could be nice for ubergamers (I had the NES controller snap-on joystick things back in the day). It seems like a good idea and something that a number of people actually seem to really like, so I'd hate to see it die off just because of one jerk.
Paul Christoforo, on the other hand, sounds like a total tool. As others have pointed out, he seems to be sorry only that he got caught and it's now an inconvenience for him. I wonder how many non-Dave customers had similar email exchanges with him. He's constantly acting like a tough guy and dropping names, until he realizes there's someone bigger and he turns into a pathetic little whiner. I don't wish any physical harm upon him or anything, but I hope this totally destroys any hope of a future in PR. Maybe he could get a job in a call center or something...