New Evidence Indicates Amelia Earhart Survived For a Time on Pacific Atoll 365
In light of new evidence publicly released Friday showing artifacts believed to have been Amelia Earhart's, the U.S. Navy is prepping a mission to investigate the area where they were found. Next month marks the 75th anniversary of Earhart's disappearance, but the just-announced discovery of personal effects and the evidence of cooking represents the most concrete evidence yet that she did not simply crash into the ocean.
Yay (Score:4, Funny)
Good on her for surviving
Re:Yay (Score:5, Funny)
The most amazing part is that after WWII she managed to turn an escaped Hitler into not such a bad guy. That's not to mention how she helped Elvis start to eat better. She was an amazing person.
Re:Yay (Score:5, Informative)
She didn't survive long. She was eaten by giant sized coconut crabs. I kid you not. Google it. Plenty of evidence there that giant crabs ate her. Coconut crabs can be as large as garbage cans.
Re:Yay (Score:4, Funny)
No, these were mutant coconut crabs the size of cars. They were the product of experiments by Captain Nemo. Unfortunately, she wasn't able to find refuge in the Nautilus because it was sunk when the island's volcano erupted, turning it into an atoll.
Tough call (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
or land on a chunk of useless rock, last for a few days eating fish or crabs, then dying a slow horrible death from dehydration and exposure.
Worse -- in Soviet Kiribati, crabs eat you [msn.com].
Crabs eat everyone (Score:5, Interesting)
I know a retired cop who fished one too many bodies out of the water. He refuses to eat crab.
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The lesson I got from that is that if you're going to be a cop, it should be in one of those sleepy towns where the most exciting crime you're likely to have to deal with is public drunkenness.
Re:Crabs eat everyone (Score:5, Funny)
Why ever not? Eating them back is the only way to ensure justice is served! (Ideally with garlic butter and lemon juice)
Re:Crabs eat everyone (Score:5, Funny)
I know a retired cop who fished one too many bodies out of the water. He refuses to eat crab.
Oh, now you mention it, I think I once saw some book about a 'low crab' diet.
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That's the basic reasoning behind why shellfish aren't kosher.
Re:Tough call (Score:5, Insightful)
Just a rough guess from the article, it wasn't a short while. I'd say at least a few weeks. Who knows what finally did them in though. A little while without rain could have depleted their water supply. Exposure to the sun could have done it. There wasn't a mention of any makeshift cover. For all we know, a particularly nasty storm could have swept them out to sea. A 1938 report stated that the highest point was 16 feet above low sea level, and nothing is to say that they camped at the highest point. Looking at the island with Google Maps, it appears the sea sweeps across the southern side on a regular basis.
It would be nice to think they only survived for days. It could have been months. With no real supplies, something as simple as a cut could have been fatal.
In any case, they didn't survive. That is very unfortunate, as they could have if they had been found in time.
Re:Tough call (Score:5, Informative)
They didn't survive? Well, neither has anyone else who was born in 1897.
Dina Manfredini and Jiroemon Kimura are alive, and they were both born in 1897. As is Besse Cooper, who was born in 1896.
Re:Tough call (Score:5, Funny)
And they could have played the piano if they only had some sheet music.
And a piano.
Re:Tough call (Score:4, Insightful)
Where the heck was the NAVY ? (Score:3)
Re:Where the heck was the NAVY ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Tough call (Score:5, Insightful)
If there is no fresh water and it doesn't rain for a few days then no technique will help you.
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Evaporate the salt water and collect the water vapor. Do it right and you can get a run off of drinkable water. The hotter it is, the better it works.
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That's assuming you can get enough usable supplies from the plane to do so. What if the plane sank in the ocean and they had to swim to shore, carrying nothing but their clothing? Plus, plastics weren't in such widespread use then as they are now, and those are pretty useful in building solar stills.
Re:Tough call (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Tough call (Score:4, Informative)
Evaporate the salt water and collect the water vapor. Do it right and you can get a run off of drinkable water. The hotter it is, the better it works.
But it may not work at all if the relative humidity is not high enough, whatever the temperature.
It's not too difficult to imagine using a blackened vessel and/or a reflector to enhance energy capture and boost the rate of evaporation. However, the rate of condensation is just as critical, and there will be essentially no condensation if the local dew point is below any achievable temperature. In tough cases, you need better apparatus which might be hard to jury-rig.
Re:Tough call (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually if you have a sheet of plastic and some sort of container to catch the water (bowl, hubcap, etc) it's quite easy to build a solar still to collect enough water to survive - just dig a hole in moist soil/sand, put your container in the center, then cover it with the plastic, weight down the edges, and set a small rock in the center so that as water vapor condenses on the underside it flows down and drips into the container. There are other techniques as well, but that's one of the easiest, and one of many good reasons to keep at least one sturdy garbage bag in your survival kit.
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I don't think they had plastic garbage bags in 1937.
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They had plastic sheeting of some sort I'm sure, or waxed paper, tin foil, etc. Quite possibly the technique hadn't been discovered yet though.
My response though was to the PP's " ...won't help you", not her, making it a general-case modern-day statement which is completely false. And since knowing a simple technique to collect fresh water virtually anywhere is at the top of the list of survival skills, right up there with avoiding freezing to death (another good use for large plastic bags) and knowing ho
Re: (Score:3)
Heck, If you have coconuts, all you have to do is wait for a big tropical storm and then use a string of perls to cut through the international telephone cable that will inevitably wash up on the shore. Then you can use jungle vines to place a call for rescue. Of course, none of these skills are of any particular use for patching a three-foot hole in a boat...
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Tough call (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Tough call (Score:4, Insightful)
Fourth option: Thinking Amelia Earhart didn't understand basic survival skills, then finding yourself in a similar situation and dying very quickly because your smugness doesn't protect you when you're in the wild (rather than sitting on your fat ass).
Cool beans. (Score:2)
Who? (Score:3, Insightful)
No offense, but who is she? Can't you add this information in the damn summary?
Re:Who? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Who? (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess the writer assumed, and I would of as well, that every Slashdot user knows at least a little about general history, the history of technology, or has at least watched a little star trek.
She is the most famous pilot ever, and was one back when that it was a huge deal that she was a woman. She eventually wanted to be the first the cross the pacific or something like that and was never heard form again. As as such there are very many myths about her (abducted by aliens, etc.).
Re:Who? (Score:5, Funny)
She is the most famous pilot ever
She is in no way Snoopy.
Re: (Score:2)
snoopy! awesome!
A funny-looking dog with a big black nose
He flew into the sky to seek revenge.....
maybe he meant most famous female pilot.. after all, you have orville, wilbur and that lindbergh fellow to consider, too, besides that most famous of world war i flying aces.
Re: (Score:3)
She is the most famous pilot ever
She is in no way Snoopy.
Of course not. Snoopy people don't crash their airplanes to live the rest of their lives on desert islands. The only way to get snoopy on a desert island is to get deeply introspective, and that gets quite repetitive after a while.
Re:Who? (Score:5, Informative)
Snoopy is the nickname given to Roy Brown, who was famous for shooting down and killing the Red Baron. This was played on by a cartoonist in the US, but ultimately the history is much more interesting.
Re:Who? (Score:5, Insightful)
Agree with all of the above, except for:
She is the most famous pilot ever ...
I think "most famous pilot ever" has to go to Charles Lindbergh, not only because of his achievements but also the infamous kidnapping of his baby. And if anyone doesn't know who he was, may I suggest you avail yourself of a search engine before you go getting all indignant?
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Well, I had never heard of Charles Lindbergh before. I'm in no way a cross section of everything except myself, but as for google results, Amelia Earhart has 52,000,000 while Charles Lindbergh has 700,000.
Using quotes (which should reduce the results for both), google yields 5.8 million for Amelia Earhart, 2.6 million for Charles Lindbergh.
Let me add a couple of names who get lower results than Amelia Earhart (using quotes): Chuck Yeager and the freaking Wright Brothers.
Re:Who? (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, I had never heard of Charles Lindbergh before.
I don't expect the current generation to know everything about the previous generations. But if a person's achievements resulted in a huge ticker-tape parade being thrown for them, and subsequently were on the front pages of every newspaper in the country when their baby was kidnapped, then that's a name you should probably have been taught in school. I don't blame you, I blame your teachers. Shame on them.
Re:Who? (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
66 of those 84 were on two airships whose crossings took days uring which the crews slept and ate comfortably, so there were really only 18 who made the crossing in airplanes before Lindbergh, and NONE of them flew solo, which was a huge accomplishment.
Re:Who? (Score:4, Informative)
She is the most famous pilot ever
Nope. Chuck Yeager is the most famous pilot ever. And people still know who he is.
Re:Who? (Score:5, Interesting)
What about the Red Baron? Isn't he a contender for most famous pilot ever (even if most people don't know his actual name)? I think we can agree that Amelia Earhart is _one_ of the most famous pilots ever and that there probably isn't one singular "most famous pilot ever".
Re:Who? (Score:5, Funny)
He's a pizza. What the hell does that have to do with this thread?
Re: (Score:2)
Plus, Yeager is obviously a much better pilot and navigator than these two dead wanabees
Re:Who? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeager was a test pilot. He wasn't the greatest pilot ever, just the last man standing. The greatest pilot ever is and probably will forever remain anonymous.
Saying that pilots made popular by the media are the greatest ever is like saying Justin Bieber is the best singer ever.
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Saying that pilots made popular by the media are the greatest ever is like saying Justin Bieber is the best singer ever.
And your point is...?
Re:Who? (Score:5, Informative)
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Maps, even today, are horribly inaccurate at times. Back then, it was far far worse, with cartographers rarely sanity-checking the work and frequently copying from older maps without verifying them. When it came to remote islands, it was a disaster.
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What about Wrong Way Corrigan [wikipedia.org]? He made a bigger navigational error than Earhart/Noonan. And survived.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
She is the most famous pilot ever
Nope. Chuck Yeager is the most famous pilot ever. And people still know who he is.
Chuck who?
Re:Who? (Score:5, Interesting)
In US, perhaps. I very much doubt that there is a single name that would be equally recognizable regardless of one's cultural background, though. For me, the first name that pops into my head corresponding to "most famous pilot" is probably Chkalov.
Re:Who? (Score:5, Insightful)
My point was to illustrate that this is highly specific to a particular culture one was born and raised in.
I'm sure that in the English-speaking world, Earhart is much more popular - and, of course, if you use English spellings to search, that's what you're going to get. Searching in Cyrillic, on the other hand, gives (me) 640k hits for Chkalov and 98k hits for Earhart.
And I have no idea what name all the 1.5 billion Chinese would consider first, but I bet it's neither of those. So "world at large" might surprise you as well.
Re: (Score:3)
Well, duh. You're comparing, essentially, the population of ex-USSR - less than 150 million left by now, probably, since those born after the collapse tend to not know much about their history - with the population of US (300 million) + UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Add to it the fact that Internet is still disproportionally centered around Western countries, with the notable exclusion of China.
Anyway, like I said, if you want to find out the "most famous pilot in the world", ask the Chinese.
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Nope. Chuck Yeager is the most famous pilot ever.
I can't agree with that. I'd have to go with either Dwight Eisenhower or George W Bush.
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First to survive passing the sound barrier. Other pilots had broken the barrier but lost control because the air surfaces behave differently at supersonic speeds. Indeed, the British pulled out of the efforts because pilot fatality levels were too high. People were going faster than sound, but none lived to tell the tale.
(In a very bitter twist to the tale, once Chuck Yeager had broken the sound barrier the Brits replicated the feat several times only to have their test plane disintegrate over a large crowd
Re:Who? (Score:5, Insightful)
She is the most famous pilot ever...
Really, the most famous pilot EVAR? More famous than the Wright brothers?
Re: (Score:3)
Or possibly Pilot from Farscape.
Re: (Score:2)
Well put.
After reading your thoughtful and well-considered comment, I'm abashed. I just went ballistic on an AC who suggested knowledge of Amelia Earhart was merely the product of her being American. : P
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Not all people live and are educated in the US.
I don't live in the USA, and wasn't educated there, and I reckon that the writer of the summary was right: Amelia Earhart was more famous than most of the people I see mentioned in the summaries. Heck, there has even been a British folk album [wikipedia.org] name-checking her.
Re:Who? (Score:5, Informative)
A famous aviator, that everyone in the US knows of (if only for the fact that she disappeared). The phrase "needs no introduction" comes to mind. Explaining who she is would have been like starting an article with "Abraham Lincoln, the president of the United States during the Civil War". If you don't recognize the name, then you're either a small child or from some other country. If it's the latter, you should accept that American websites will sometimes refer to American celebrities, and in such situations Wikipedia is your friend.
Re:Earhart was a resourceful, intelligent woman... (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're an American and never heard of her, then you're quite ignorant and obviously never got a decent education. She's an extremely noteworthy person in Americna history. Did you also never hear of Al Capone or Elliot Ness? If you don't know who many big names from the first half of the 20th Century are, then you're missing out on a lot of cultural knowledge that you really need to be considered a "well-educated, informed American".
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Product of a public school i take it?
If you really didn't know who she was and are from the USA, this is a sad day as i'm sure you were not alone.
Here's a useful link (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
All of you giving this guy a hard time for not knowing something that's considered common knowledge are missing out on your big chance: http://xkcd.com/1053/ [xkcd.com]
Re:Who? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I'm sure you talk a lot about her in US, but the world is not limited to US (common knowledge in the rest of the world).
That's right, bitch, USians only care about Amelia Earhart because she's Amuhrican, not because she's the FIRST WOMAN TO SOLO ACROSS THE ATLANTIC.
Make sure you KEEP your sexist, ethnocentric, xenophobic ass in that backwater you call a country and stay the hell away from us.
Re:Who? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not from the US but because I've had a basic education I've heard of her. Maybe every word in every summary should link to a dictionary or wikipedia page so even the dumbest visitor understands them?
Re:Who? (Score:5, Interesting)
"I'm sure you talk a lot about her in US"
Ummm.. dude. She's, at least, the most famous female aviator of that era. She gets 6 MILLION google hits. She's one of the most famous pilots of all time, among either sex.
You think there's a more famous female pilot of that era, tell us who you think it is, and we'll see. There isn't. It's her. It would be like me saying, "Sure, I'm sure you talk about Yuri Gagarin a lot in Russia, but I'm from the USA, so how should I have heard of him?" Well, the answer is that unless I have no clue at all about history, I know who he is even though I'm not from Russia.
Sheesh. By the way, Emelia has far more google references than Yuri. That should tell you something.
Re:Who? (Score:5, Funny)
Yuri Gagarin? He was the helmsman on Star Trek, right?
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Close, but not quite; he was the navigator.
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The only part of the parent I disagree with is "of that era." I can't think of a more famous female aviator from any era.
Re:Who? (Score:5, Funny)
No, it's not. It's more like asking who were Alcock and Brown, or Blériot.
By the way, have you the slightest idea who they were?
I think Louis Blériot is Ke$ha's grandfather.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"What were you saying, again?"
I'm saying that in an strongly American-biased Internet is no wonder finding American idols being over-represented.
And I'm saying the first pilot to cross the English Channel or the first ones to flight over the Atlantic are in the same league than a woman known basically only to English/Americans and aviation freaks and certainly in a completly different league than the Wright brothers, Neil Armstrong or even Lindbergh (which already isn't the same league than the first two).
Re:Who? (Score:5, Insightful)
a woman known basically only to English/Americans and aviation freaks
As someone who is male, neither American nor English and not particularly interested in aviation; I second that if you haven't heard of Amelia Earhart, you probably didn't pay attention in school (or live in a country that mostly ignores international history to focus too narrowly on its local history (USA does this too, for reference)); don't watch a lot of movies (even movies not about her may reference her from time to time); don't "wikipedia surf"; and are probably rather uninteresting.
I don't mean that as horribly offensive; just that even if you'd never been exposed to knowledge of who she is (which to me seems extremely unlikely on the assumption you live anywhere outside of the 3rd world - you probably just ignored/dismissed/forgot it); you could have at least done a quick Google search to find out.
and certainly in a completly different league than the Wright brothers, Neil Armstrong or even Lindbergh
I'd put her only slightly under the Wright Brothers and Armstrong for name recognition, and way above Lindbergh (when I read the name, it rang a bell, but wasn't immediately clear to me - quick Google search showed me the text "Spirit of St. Louis" and then I remembered).
Note that I did say "for name recognition" - not necessarily for their achievements/activities)
*YAWN* (Score:4, Interesting)
who cares?
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Obviously not you, and yet you took the time to post. Tell me, exactly how boring is your life?
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You're right! Facts are so, like, boring. What's on TV?
Some "reality" show that has absolutely nothing to do with facts.
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What's on TV?
The Amelia Earhart episode of Ancient Aliens
Assuming this is correct, how'd she die? (Score:4, Interesting)
It sounds like they were surviving fairly well which would indicate they weren't so injured that they couldn't keep themselves going on the island. And, if they were fishing (and not relying on birds/eggs) they could probably survive indefinitely. So, what did them in?
Re:Assuming this is correct, how'd she die? (Score:5, Funny)
Hate to break it to you, but...nobody can survive indefinitely. We all die at some time, for very little reason sometimes.
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Imagine yourself living in a small, isolated place with your wife, 24/7. Now imagine the wife a strong, stuborn feminist.
Poor Fred.
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Thirst, possibly? Depending on the size of the atoll, it might have been very difficult to find fresh water.
Re:Assuming this is correct, how'd she die? (Score:5, Informative)
The particular island she landed is noted for an extremely poor supply of freshwater.
People have tried to live on this island but failed because water was not at all reliable.
Re:Assuming this is correct, how'd she die? (Score:5, Informative)
I've seen some videos of this groups work on this little island. It is no tropical paradise. I don't believe there is any fresh water - so they would need to capture evaporating water somehow. And the island is infested with spider crabs from the size of golf balls to the size of soccer balls. And these crabs are looking for something to eat. You could survive a short time there - long term would be a slice of hell.
Plus we all take modern medicine for granted -- stranded on an island a cut or injury could become infected and that is pretty much game over .... then the crabs eat your body and scatter your bones.
Re:Assuming this is correct, how'd she die? (Score:5, Interesting)
This isn't new information. (Score:2, Informative)
These TIGHAR folks have been pushing this pet theory of theirs for quite a while.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4295
Not good evidence (Score:5, Insightful)
Robinson (Score:2)
I hope she happened to have a copy of the book Robinson Crusoe on hand to take her mind off of her predicament.
This brings money into Kiribati (Score:2, Interesting)
Kiribati is the small nation that includes Gardner Island. A US Navy expedition into the area would pump money into the local economy. This sort of expedition is often encouraged by local governments. The military is a diplomatic tool as much as it is anything else. Considering the shifting politics of the region keeping a good relationship with a small but well placed country could bring significant benefits in time of crisis. For historical reference Tarawa, of the Battle of Tarawa, is the capital of Kiri
This brings money into Kiribati (Score:3, Insightful)
Kiribati is the small nation that includes Gardner Island. A US Navy expedition into the area would pump money into the local economy. This sort of expedition is often encouraged by local governments. The military is a diplomatic tool as much as it is anything else. Considering the shifting politics of the region keeping a good relationship with a small but well placed country could bring significant benefits in time of crisis. For historical reference Tarawa, of the Battle of Tarawa, is the capital of Kiribati.
sorry for the double post, but this time I am logged in.
wait, what? (Score:3)
So the Voyager episode "The 37s" didn't/won't really happen?
Now I'm disillusioned.
Re:Why US Navy? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why on earth would the US Navy spend taxpayer dollars for this expedition? Unless they have too much money and don't know what to do with it all - which is quite plausible considering the proportion of budget allocated to the military. Meh!
This isn't even a drop in the bucket of the Navy's budget. Hell, this isn't even a fraction of a drop in a bucket. And sailors can always use the practice in honing their skills. Considering that this is truly a national mystery, I don't see the harm in it.
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According to the WWII Japan, she was a U.S. spy. And if she was a spy, it may have been for the U.S. Navy. And the Navy takes care of its own.
Re:Why US Navy? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you can't understand that, you aren't in the Navy. If you are, ask your superiors. They can explain.
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Why on earth would the US Navy spend taxpayer dollars for this expedition?
I don't know, but it might explain why they're moving the fleet to the Pacific
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Get ready. Oblig. Ginger v Mary Ann thread in 5..4..3..2..1..