BitTorrent Tries To Appease Users By Making Torrent Ads Optional 215
hypnosec writes "BitTorrent has backtracked on their stance that uTorrent ads cannot be 'turned off,' following a user revolt. They announced that users can opt-out of sponsored torrents if they don't wish to see them. Last weekend BitTorrent announced it would make uTorrent ad-enabled and that it would have a 'sponsored torrents' feature which couldn't be disabled. As one would have imagined, this didn't go over well with many users, and they let out their anger on the uTorrent forums. 'You seriously think that uTorrent is going to survive now? The Admin/Devs are seriously deluded. Pure greed has turned your once loved app into a bloated and buggy cash cow,' said one user."
Kickstarter (Score:5, Insightful)
A better approach would be to set up a Kickstarter campaign outlining all the work that needs to be done and who needs to be paid for their efforts, and how much money it will take to support this for 6 months or 12 months or something. They would sail past their reqested amount long before the deadline. Vaguely similar to the humble bundle approach in a way.
They could make a big deal out of how this approach means they avoid needing advertising sponsors.
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A better approach would be to set up a Kickstarter campaign outlining all the work that needs to be done and who needs to be paid for their efforts, and how much money it will take to support this for 6 months or 12 months or something. They would sail past their reqested amount long before the deadline. Vaguely similar to the humble bundle approach in a way.
They could make a big deal out of how this approach means they avoid needing advertising sponsors.
The best bet for this kind of thing would probably be to rope in some reputable names to start a foundation and create a Kickstarter fund. Rules for a foundation can be laid on the table up-front, and potential corporate or individual investors can have a little more assurance that it's just not one guy who would take the money and run.
The barriers you would cross don't have to do with Kickstarter not being a great resource to start a new open torrent client, but, rather, convincing people your project won
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I assume you mean all the creators who should be getting paid for their work, rather than get ripped off by torrents? Ohhhhhh - you mean the middle-man torrent app creator who has done jack-shit compared to all the works they're helping people steal? Yeahhhhh, those people need to be supported.
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I assume you mean all the creators who should be getting paid for their work, rather than get ripped off by torrents?
Right now I'm torrenting four different Linux distros, the movie A New Pirkinning (the free Finnish Star Trek/Babylon V parody), and the book I wrote. Your fisrt mistake is assuming BT is only for piracy.
The fact is, piracy doesn't cost the artist at all, it actually earns him money unless he's already famous. Nobody ever went broke from piracy, but many artists have starved from obscurity. S
Re:Kickstarter (Score:5, Insightful)
The typical torrent user gets their content there because it's a more convenient, higher quality product, as well as free. IE, to avoid unskippable ads, DRM virus-infested always-on games, and the ability to use on any device they want with a minimum of bullshit. Torrent users also spend more on legal content than non-torrent users; not sure where you're getting your FUD.
Not saying the price isn't part of the selling point, but when the only legal alternatives are ten years behind on quality and convenience how can you honestly expect people to pay more for it?
Re:Kickstarter (Score:5, Funny)
Torrent users also spend more on legal content than non-torrent users;
Legal fees and settlements don't count.
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Torrent users also spend more on legal content than non-torrent users;
Legal fees and settlements don't count.
If it wasn't for torrenting, my (100% legit purchased) DVD collection would be half its current size.
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I don't know what you're using, but I find Spotify, Netflix, LoveFilm, and Steam way more convenient than torrenting. Their libraries aren't 100%, but they're pretty good. For the rest, I torrent or buy/rent stupid plastic discs..
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Unfortunately none of these places let me playback at 2x or 1.5x speed. Only a torrent download which I can play in MS-media player or VLC lets me do that. Plus finding torrents isn't hard. I've got a site that has every current movie and tv show, and what few items they don't have, you can request. (For example: Megaupload went down when I was watching One Tree Hill S1... so I requested the torrent and it was filled in a week).
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I play back at 1.5x simply because you barely notice the difference when you get used to it, and you save that much time. 2x is stretching it, but depending on the show, and what's happening, it's doable.
I'll admit to torrenting a few times (Score:3)
First, I pay for netflix, and normally watch stuff on there. However, I'd say that netflix still has a ways to go on things like subtitling, alternate languages, and seeking. While I don't play entire episodes at 1.5X like Celebi, I have the opposite problem - I fairly frequently have a 'what was that' reaction and want to go back 10-15 seconds, which means I have to wait 10-15 seconds while netflix tosses it's cache and redownloads the past minute or so. With a downloaded movie, that's a button click aw
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Unfortunately, at least the first two don't work for 90% of the world population, including my (European) country. So yeah, it'd be more convenient, if it existed at all.
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Both NetFlix and LoveFilm aren't available in my country I'd pay for either maybe both if they were.
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I pay for Spotify, but I have yet to find anything that can even remotely compete with torrents for TV-shows and movies in terms of breadth of selection, quick delivery, zero ads and native Linux support without resorting to Flash or some such crap.
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I never believe those claims. When I look at the biggest pirates I know, and they say things like "why are you paying for stuff you can get for free on the internet?" it's just a little hard to believe that they pay for anything.
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I never believe those claims.
Posted this above already, but I legally own twice the DVDs I would otherwise because of torrenting.
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All the software that's DRM free gets pirated like crazy. There's literally no benefit to having the pirated version over the official version except not having to pay for it, yet it still gets pirated. Why do you think the Humble Indie Bundle g
Re:Kickstarter (Score:5, Insightful)
Do all people in the world have to have the same motivation in your world view? Some pirates download stuff because it's free. Some download stuff because it's convenient and would be willing to buy content with an equally convenient system. This is why iTunes and other similar systems are profitable despite the availability of the same content for free elsewhere, often in higher quality forms. The same person can have different motives depending on the content.
I typically buy blurays that I like when they go on sale and cost somewhere in the $10 - $15 range. I only do this however after I have watched the movie and like it enough to watch again. I don't actually own a television or bluray player. So in order to watch my purchased content I have to run AnyDVD HD and rip the disc to an MKV file with the help of Eac3to and other programs. Of course if/when the DRM gets sufficiently good to prevent ripping I will not buy content at all. This is what happened with software a decade ago. If you prevent me from making backup copies you also permanently lose me as a customer. For every movie that I purchase there is always a corresponding download that prompted the purchase. I can't speak for everyone, but if the industry manages to somehow stop all illegal downloads they will lose at least this customer. I don't watch films in the cinema at all anymore because most theatres are using video projectors now anyway. So the quality difference between video and projection is no longer significant and I avoid all the rude people that prompted the killing in Bobcat Goldthwait's excellent God Bless America. I've always wanted to do something like that, but instead I just wait for the bluray torrent releases and stay away from the cinema.
As far as software goes I also use torrents for try-before-you-buy, but I refuse to encourage DRM, especially the insanely intrusive stuff around nowadays with limited installs and internet connection requirements. I refuse to give 1 cent to a publisher that does that. So I almost never buy anymore. My last software purchase was around the turn of the century when most "copy protection" consisted of CD keys or whatever. When the DRM became sufficiently advanced to thwart me in making a backup copy sometime around the new millenium that was the last straw. Now I only buy software if it is 100% DRM free and I like it and can afford it. Which means I almost never buy software anymore. I will nearly always contribute to promising kickstarter/indiegogo software projects however.
As far as music goes, I do tend to buy CDs from artists that I like. The RIAA is even more evil than the MPAA and I don't like to reward the record companies. So I try to buy used whenever possible. My taste in music is sufficiently narrow that this is a rare occurrence.
For books I support my favorite authors by buying the paper version in hardcover as soon as it is released. I don't buy ebooks however. I believe they are overpriced and I won't support price gouging. Although this is also something of a middleman issue. If all of my money or even most of it went directly to the author I might be willing to buy both the paper and electronic version. I'd like to see authors experiment with kickstarter to cut out the fat middleman. Although direct sales through Amazon also seem viable for ebooks.
So there you have it. The actual thought process for one individual pirate. There are no doubt millions of variations.
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> The typical torrent
no, the typical torrent user would not have a problem with DRM, if the content itself would be free of cost. The typical torrent user just wants to get content for free.
Of course, nerds like us have other motivations, but the majority of torrent users is not nerds anymore.
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or the higher quality product is not available legally.
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This is true - I don't use uTorrent and had forgotten that it was proprietary. Perhaps Bram Cohen abandoning the Bittorrent reference implentation in order to work on uTorrent was the first step in him trying to figure out a way to monetize his work.
A shame really, since now kickstater, indiegogo and humble have shown that the donation solicitation method seems to work out better for everyone involved.
Especially for something as ubiquitous as bittorrent, which would have a vast number of donations. From a
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If I am spending money I will "donate" it to the DVD Store and support the artists, writers, cameramen, actors, engineers, and so forth that created the movie or show directly.
Not utorrent or websites. (Yes I know I'll get modded down for that opinion... oh well. I don't change my mind just because of karma-threats.)
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But is it really mutually exclusive? Assuming you have sufficient funds you can reward the movie industry by buying a bluray that you like and reward the writer of a clever program that you like.
I don't happen to think utorrent is all that special. I just used it out of habit and convenience. I started out using Azureus and still think it is a superior program despite its bloated and slow reliance on Java instead of c.
Of course some will make the argument that if you buy a DVD or Bluray you should buy it us
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In return for the money you give the dvd store, you receive a physically vulnerable DRM encumbered copy of the movie, complete with non-skippable insulting threat that for some reason the person that has gone to the trouble of paying for the movie in the manner the MPAA desires has to sit through.
Also the vast proportion of the money you've given to support the creative people actually gets wasted on a totally superfluous supply chain from the unneccesary dvd store (although if people want to pay extra for
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Link please. Penny Arcade didn't reach their funding goal?
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and why should a webcomic be worth 1 million? Other people work hard all day and do not get a fraction of this.
I Completely Agree With the Outrage! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Remember when AOL bought Nullsoft and released Winamp 3.0?
This is almost exactly the same story, but BitTorrent Inc. also thought including advertising would be a good idea.
People are passionate about the tools they interact with every day.
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YOU BASTARD...
I.... I.... I....
*curls up in the fetal position in the corner of the room sobbing*.
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Its not up to me to figure out their buisness plan. If they die, they die.
Re:I Completely Agree With the Outrage! (Score:4, Informative)
How is TCP supposed to survive, as a company and... Oh, wait.
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>>>I've gotten to the point where I won't rely on anything offered for free because then you're just one corporate re-org, acquisition, etc away from being booted out in the cold.
(shrug). Not the first time I had to abandon ship for a different offering. Just looking at my online connection: First I had RUNterm (I had to type it from the magazine but it still cost $0.00). Then I had changed computers, and had to learn the commands for JRterm. Then AmigaMosaic in 93. Then Netscape in 95. The
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Reminds me... Anyone have some AOL discs they could send? I only have 9,000 hours left.
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"Current annual revenue is estimated at somewhere between $15 and $20 million and the company is backed by millions in venture capital."
http://torrentfreak.com/utorrent-becomes-ad-supported-to-rake-in-millions-120810/ [torrentfreak.com]
So unless TF got their numbers wrong, this is not at all about surviving - they do very well already.
Grovel before us (Score:2)
uTorrent 2.2.1 FTW (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides the increasingly intrusive ads, uTorrent 3.x.x just sucks. It randomly consumes 100% of one cpu core and is highly unpredictable on bandwidth usage when downloading. I'm sticking with 2.2.1 until hell freezes over.
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3.x seems to work fine on my laptop, and all it has is ~354 meg of RAM and a P3 processor. So does 2.2.1 support PirateBay's magnet links?
Oh and can someone link me to the PirateBay file that holds all their magnet links?
Re:uTorrent 2.2.1 FTW (Score:4, Informative)
Just for those who don't know you can find old versions of programs at...
http://www.oldversion.com/ [oldversion.com]
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Can't say I've never switched, what you can do is install the new version into a new directory and/or backup the old database go check their forums/go ask around.
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Use Transmission on the Mac, or Deluge on Windows. Both are open source. A torrent client, more than other types of programs, needs to be open source for security reasons. I won't risk an entertainment industry backdoor.
So what are the best alternatives? (Score:2)
Now looks like a good time to reflect on the options. What are the good torrent options on windows?
Even better what are the best OSS ones?
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Deluge, for Windows, looks to be what uTorrent used to be, but abandoned when it got bought out: lightweight and functional and nothing more.
Seriously, the people running uTorrent are lost. The u is really = micro which is what uTorrent stood for in the face of the bloated beast of Azureus and its kin. I think the tag line was something like "a lightweight little torrent client" or something - the emphasis was low resources, and fast. Before you know it, it'll just be another Vuze.
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I've been a utorrent user since it started almost. Switched to Vuze recently, for many reasons.
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Deluge is quite nice on linux. There is a windows port, but I haven't run it... So I can't say if the experience is the same there.
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Sorry, forgot to mention that is GPL.
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I also think Qbittorrent is a nice utorrent replacement. And it's multiplatform. Particularly important for me as Microsoft migrates to tablet-centric OSes which I will never use more than is absolutely necessary. I also find rTorrent very difficult to install and use
PeerBlock (Score:2)
This whole 'outrage' and reporting is confusing... (Score:2)
... because I've checked repeatedly for the latest version and there are no updates (v3.1.3 build 27220), yet there are simply no 'sponsored torrents' nor any advertising of any sort to see. As far as I can tell this is vaporware and much ado about something that hasn't actually happened. Did they somehow selectively roll it out to a certain demographic group, like maybe people whose default browser is Internet Explorer or whose browser isn't configured to request do-not-track?
Or maybe... my cranial power
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They already have a tab called Featured Content (I think since version 3.x.x) . I always though they were planning to make it more prominent and sort of must view thing.
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So is that all it is, then? I've had that tab/feature disabled in Options for so long that I'd forgotten about it. I also disabled the Apps section and even the sidebar, since it's not relevant to the way I use it.
No matter. If they do decide to take a hard sell approach I'll find a way to mitigate it or find another app to do the job. I'm willing to pay/donate a bit for what the software does for me, but I'm not willing to tolerate blatant advertising. (Reminds me of some episodes of the past season o
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You have utorrent for a Mac (as do I).
I understand utorrent for Windows has the "download from beginning" which is a pretty killer feature. On my Windows machine with BitComet (don't laught) it means I can start watching after 15 seconds instead of having to wait a whole 5-15 minutes.
Windows version probably works for WINE, maybe I should use that instead.
What's this about Macs? (Score:2)
No, I don't have uTorrent for OSX. I have it installed natively in Windows 7 x64, no VMs or bootcamps anywhere in sight. I don't know what I said that provoked that conclusion, but you concluded incorrectly. I've never even bothered trying any of the streaming features and don't know much of anything about them, other than the barest knowledge that they exist. For me they're not a killer feature; I do a real good impression of a person demonstrating infinite patience.
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Just google "utorrent download" instead of making posts stating that you wonder about it, and you'll see that the latest version for Windows is 3.2 http://www.utorrent.com/downloads/ [utorrent.com]
And BTW fucking Macs, how I hate them so. Windows version of utorrent won't work with WINE. I upgraded to the newest version of WINE, and find out that my 1.5 year old Mac needs to have a not-free OS upgrade to be able to run the newer versions of WINE, an upgrade that makes my desktop more iPad like.
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... you'll see that the latest version for Windows is 3.2.
I clearly stated that I checked for a pushed update, which the software told me didn't exist. This new version isn't being pushed to existing installs (yet). I even spent a few minutes rummaging on the uTorrent site looking for a current version number, but I didn't get to that particular download page and they're not very forthcoming about it anywhere else... so I didn't know. I even downloaded it from a different link - with no description of the version - intending to check the file properties for a
I tolerate ads (Score:2)
As long as ads are discreet (no "punch the monkey" stunts, no attention-killing animations) and don't waste too much bandwidth, I'm fine with them.
I don't use AdBlock. I want the sites I love to be economically viable.
won't be upgrading (Score:2)
Saw this coming a mile away. I haven't upgraded my utorrent in a while and now have a real reason to not upgrade.
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I don't expect them to do all their work for free. Just this work. I would never pay for the bloated piece of shit that microtorrent has become. It should be called MaxiTorrent now. Lots of free replacements that are just as good. If you want to develop a paid software product it's best to focus on types of software that don't have lots of free versions with equivalent or better functionality. How about actually meeting a need in the marketplace that isn't currently being met? Is that really so difficult?
Deluge Torrent (Score:2)
I've started using Deluge (http://deluge-torrent.org/) as an alternative. The reason I like it is because it has a very similar GUI to uTorrent and mostly the same functionality (including full .magnet support), plus they've finally got a good Windows installer that isn't too large and doesn't install as much cruft as it used to. Plus since it's open source and cross platform it means that once I give up Windows for good (given the way the platform is headed), I'll have gained enough familiarity with it tha
Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
Or use any of the multitude of other clients.
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free = you are the product being sold (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:free = you are the product being sold (Score:5, Insightful)
"its free, stop complaining".
no. because I am not paying cash money for something does NOT mean its free.
"hey, I just have to give my email and fill out this survey and I get $10!"
its also not free.
people, please learn what you give up for so-called 'free things'.
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30 seconds per ad. About 3-4 minutes per TV episode (on hulu). Not a big deal since I usually don't watch the ad anyway but instead flip to another tab, or glance at the magazine in my lap, or glance over at TV #2.
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people, please learn what you give up for so-called 'free things'.
People are free to be as stupid as they want to be. The way I see it, such people are the rightful prey of the shysters running these schemes.
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If every human on earth already understood it, the practice wouldn't be effective.
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So, what did I give up when I downloaded linux for free? what did I give up when I got a free sandwich?
You've spent hours configuring and tweaking and getting drivers to work properly, when in all reality your dumb-ass Windows shovelware computer would have been enough to post on /.
Sent from my Ubuntu netbook on "free" public wifi.
Who gives a damn? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't understand why people get all PMSey over advertising. It's easy enough to ignore (go get a drink, go pee, go update your facebook status, glance at your magazine, et cetera). I'd sooner ignore an ad then have to pay ~$250 a year per network (example: BBC) or per program (~$70 for LimeWire). Advertising gives me 40+ channels of freetoair TV, plus thousands of free websites and dozens of programs.
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I don't understand why people get all PMSey over advertising.
Personally I don't like people wasting my time telling me I should give them money for something I don't even want.
Avoiding adverts if like trying to not look at a bright light. You can train yourself to do it, you might not even know you are doing it, but it's still mental effort.
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~$250 a year per network (example: BBC)
Use iPlayer, don't watch the live broadcast, et voila! BBC content for free, and 100% legit.
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no. It means a piece of information about you is. Stop being melodramatic.
And what's wrong with exchange an email address in exchange for something?
You also imply, possible unintentionally, that paying for something mean you aren't the product.
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And what's wrong with exchange an email address in exchange for something?
Nothing. Except that's rarely what you're exchanging.
Usually you're exchanging years of having to filter spam from your inbox for that something.
And its even nastier when the offering entity doesn't directly link the two. "Enter your email address to claim your free something!" They make it sound as if its a gift, when its actually an exchange. Shady. Commonplace by now and most people expect it, but still shady.
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thats why you use a disposable email account let them spam a dead address
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not if you are talking RMS Free.
Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes. Things that are free are magically exempt from criticism. People's negative feelings about free things simply don't exist, and so they're unable to express them.
Yeah they are (Score:2, Insightful)
uTorrent is given away although you have the option of paying. If you are given something for free (as in a gift from someone else) you have zero room for bitching. Now had you paid $10 that's a different story.
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That's silly. Anything and everything is open to criticism. If someone doesn't like something, they can criticize it and explain why.
None of this means that you have to make changes when someone criticizes you, but they have every right to criticize you. They also have a right to criticize you and then find another alternative.
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uTorrent is given away although you have the option of paying. If you are given something for free (as in a gift from someone else) you have zero room for bitching. Now had you paid $10 that's a different story.
I'll offer to paint your walls with faeces for free. Since it's free, you have no reason to refuse or complain.
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Pay for your what now?
Re:Or pay for... (Score:4, Funny)
*continues seeding the ArchLinux iso*
You goddam thief. You've not just stolen a stolen a sale from an honest hard working corporation, but you've probably enabled the theft of thoudands of sales. I don't know how you can sleep at night when you steal so much from honest corportations working hard to make quality proprietary operating systems. I know your type. Next you'll be killing babies.
Re:Or pay for... (Score:5, Funny)
Next you'll be killing babies
or puppies:
# rm -f puppylinux.iso
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Loads of stuff uses bit torrent, sure it's mainly used for piracy but that just speaks to how great the protocol is. You could say the very same thing about TCP.
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I've also torrented libreoffice,
and my ratio for the last few releases of eclipse is over 200/1
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The bit torrent software.
sure I'll pay creative works (Score:2, Insightful)
I'll happily pay the original creators and people who worked on something for their efforts
But I won't pay any IP "owners" who aren't the original creators
And I won't pay for marketing since I can find out about stuff myself
And I won't pay the compensation of executives or board members or investors or dividends for stockholders since they had nothing to do with the creation process
And I won't pay for packaging, distribution, or retail markup since duplicating and transporting the data is effectively a cost
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I disagree with your penultimate statement. I am quite happy to pay the original creators for work I enjoyed regardless of how old it, or they, happen to be. I see no reason to make that distinction. (Though I would be less likely to feel the need to pay for something a hundred years old so the creator's grandkid could live a life of leisure off his brilliant dad granddad's work.)
Games are different, in my view, only because they're quite frequently true abandonware - I feel even less guilty pirating things
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Oh, I totally agree copyright shouldn't last as long as it does. I'd be fine with 10 years, I'd be fine with a bit longer, but definitely nowhere near as it is now (also with slightly more explicit fair use exemptions, and ones people, including lawyers, knew about and respected. But that's another story.)
I'm also often happy to pay money to authors of works even after they've copylefted/public domain'd it. Sometimes moreso!
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Good lucking having $100 million budget movies and games made in that universe of yours.
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Hire some fucking writers and a scientist / engineer. Less sparkle, more substance.
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Indie and B movies are good for that.
Of course, taking Sturgeon's law into account, there's a whole lot of "less sparkle, less substance" out there as well. You can find some devastatingly terribly movies if you try!
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Good riddance, I say.
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Lacking IPFilter URL/Updates (Score:2)
qBittorrent is certainly not a bad client but I find it lacking in a very critical security function - blocklists/IPFilters. Unlike many other open source clients like Transmission, Deluge, and (I believe, I haven't used it for awhile) KTorrent, qBT does NOT 1) Allow you to enter the URL of a blocklist file and 2) Automatically update from said blocklist at intervals. Instead, you have to have to download a proper file to a local machine and then manually hit the key to reload/update the blocklist filte
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I've bought into the arguments that block lists are ineffective at best and can even be counterproductive due to false positives. Although blocking non-uploading peers through a temporary IP address block can be amusing. I also like that qbittorrent fills in names for magnet links. utorrent 3.0 required me to enter the names manually. What a PITA. I also regard even a very slight false sense of security as a bad thing. I rely on the protection of the herd and not having mainstream tastes. It's always worked
Re:Torrents users are spoiled and ungrateful (Score:5, Insightful)
Torrent users are emotionally invested in one product in a very competitive field. Product makers figured they could screw torrent users over as if they had a monopoly. Torrent users reminded product makers that there are many competing products that are on par or better then their product, and that the only reason they're staying with their product is because of sentimental value. Product makers chickened out.
Not entirely sure how you went from "vigilant customers" to "spoiled and ungrateful customers". Unless you're a type to whom these two are synonyms.
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Well, torrent users are obviously perceptive. Adding about 50 lines of code to add a display spot for an image, catch a click and call a URL launcher, and do a periodic network call to download ad packages (an image and an ad ID) sure bloats the hell out of software. I mean uTorrent only took what, 15 lines of bash to implement in the first place?
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Product makers figured they could screw torrent users over as if they had a monopoly.
Too many companies think this way, alas. Look at Sony, the Apple of the seventies and eighties. Now they think they're Microsoft and can root and vandalize paying customers' computers with XCP, remove features from a product the customer has already paid for, be sloppy with customer info, and wonder why they've been losing money lateley. Well DUH, idiots, you're not Microsoft. You're not even Apple any more.