Why Are Operating System Version Names So Absurd? 460
jfruh writes "Apple's spent more than a decade on version 10 — or, rather, X — of its flagship operating system, with .x versions named after big cats (and many of them, it turns out, after the same big cats). Ubuntu Linux is scrambling to find ever more obscure animals to alliteratively name its versions after. And let's not even talk about Windows, whose current shipping OS is sold as Windows 7 but is really Windows NT 6.1. Why is this area of software marketing so ridiculous?"
And what's the deal with names anyway? (Score:5, Funny)
My friend Peter is not a rock, and my friend Thomas isn't even a twin.
talk about it on /.? (Score:2, Funny)
Yeah, names. Like /.
http:///..com [..com] gotcha.
Re:talk about it on /.? (Score:5, Interesting)
If you type "/." in your address bar in Opera, it will take you to slashdot.
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No, it takes you to a picture of two cinnamon buns with a pencil shoved through them.
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Re:talk about it on /.? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:And what's the deal with names anyway? (Score:5, Funny)
I've been shaving since 2004.
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My friend Peter is not a rock, and my friend Thomas isn't even a twin.
Peter denies that three times and Thomas doubts it.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And what's the deal with names anyway? (Score:4, Insightful)
It won't work that way, because there are only a few lines of Linux kernels and hundreds of distributions.
With Windows, you have a few lines of kernels too, but only a handful of distributions (a.k.a. home, professional, server, database server etc.pp.).
So yes, it's Windows NT 6.1 with the distributions Windows 7 Home and Professional and Windows 2010 Server. But look how many Linux distributions are currently shipping with Linux 3.0!
The real reason Windows has the version number... (Score:5, Insightful)
The summary, folks here and the TFA(didn't read fully!) seem to be missing the point about why the internal Windows Version is 6.1 for Windows 7. The reason is that a LOT of software, drivers and other utilities have this kind of code in them:
if(first letter of Windows Version Number) is not 6 Print 'Error, OS not compatible'
Even though the software is fully compatible with the OS(because they didn't change the driver model from Vista), the non updated software from old CDs etc. throw up this error. To get around this issue, Windows internally names it 6.1, so the offending software thinks it's on some Vista service pack. Also, this is an *internal* version number compared to Apple's and Ubuntu's OSes which are the marketing names, so I don't even see why this was brought up except as flamebait.
Re:The real reason Windows has the version number. (Score:4, Funny)
To get around this issue, Windows internally names it 6.1, so the offending software thinks it's on some Vista service pack.
Correctly, many would say.
Re:The real reason Windows has the version number. (Score:4, Informative)
This isn't why Windows 7 is 6.1, or why Windows 8 is 6.2.
The reason is that Windows 7 actually is just a minor revision on Vista, and 8 is a minor revision from that. Under the hood, the big changes were between NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 (Windows NT 5), then between 2000 and Vista (Windows 6). The changes from 5.0 to 5.1 (2000 to XP) or from 6.0 to 6.1 to 6.2 (Vista, 7, and 8) were incremental in nature as far as the inner workings of the OS are concerned.
The real reason 7 felt so much faster than Vista: When they made Vista, they planned on you booting up very infrequently, so they scheduled a lot of junk to happen at boot and login, thinking that users would just 'sleep' instead of rebooting. Windows 7 (And Vista SP2) backs off a bit and does the housekeeping when you're not using the computer. Vista actually wasn't really 'slow', it's just 'irrationally busy' doing stuff with the I/O (indexing, precaching, defragmenting, etc.) while you're just trying to get to your gosh-darned desktop.
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The real reason 7 felt so much faster than Vista: When they made Vista, they planned on you booting up very infrequently, so they scheduled a lot of junk to happen at boot and login, thinking that users would just 'sleep' instead of rebooting. Windows 7 (And Vista SP2) backs off a bit and does the housekeeping when you're not using the computer. Vista actually wasn't really 'slow', it's just 'irrationally busy' doing stuff with the I/O (indexing, precaching, defragmenting, etc.) while you're just trying to get to your gosh-darned desktop.
Also, the reason people had fewer compatibility problems with 7 isn't because Microsoft fixed the OS, it's because software and hardware vendors fixed their applications and drivers.
If you tried to do anything useful on Windows Vista within the first six months after it was released, you probably had a miserable experience. If you tried to do the same stuff on Windows 7 within the first six months of that OS's release, it probably worked fine. What people don't realize is that if you did a clean install o
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There is actually a software, where the first incarnation was called 3, the second 3.1, the third 3.14: TeX (currently being at 3.1415926).
Re:And what's the deal with names anyway? (Score:5, Insightful)
Version numbers are entirely arbitrary. It's not like version 2 actually corresponds to the 2nd build is it...
Version numbers are a lot less arbitrary than artsy-fartsy names like "Dapper Drake" or "Mangled Melon" or whatever Ubuntu is up to today. Nobody said that version numbers match the "build", but they do match the releases.
I find it much easier to understand that CentOS 6.1 is a newer version than CentOS 6.0, for example, than trying to remember that "Killer Kangaroo" is newer than "Sloppy Sloth".
Why get upset when someone decides that OS 10 is something special, or that the first version will be 3, the second 3.1 and the third 3.14.
I don't think anyone does.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I find it much easier to understand that CentOS 6.1 is a newer version than CentOS 6.0, for example, than trying to remember that "Killer Kangaroo" is newer than "Sloppy Sloth".
Well, you shouldn't try to remember that, since Ubuntu names in alphabetical order, just like Android. That will roll around in some half a dozen years, but Ubuntu also has YY.MM version numbers, so you know immediately that version 08.04 is over four years old. It's better than Debian where the name is not given alphabetically, but Debian also has a version number when you need it. Geeks make the OS. Geeks like the wacko names. Deal with it.
Marketing (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple never would've been able to convince the Mac faithful to purchase OPENSTEP 5.0, &c.
Re:Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
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It's not just Apple and it's not just OSes, it's everything the suitpigs come up with. Ford FIESTA? Cheetos? Why "Dawn" dish soap when most people wash dishes in the evening? TIDE detergent? SATURN cars? TWAIN and GNU? WINDOWS? iPhone and iPad and iPod and iCantstanditanymore... marketers must be insane.
Re:Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
Probably true, but they're going downhill on the feline names already.
I hope they don't change before we get "OS X Domestic Cat".
Re:Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
Probably true, but they're going downhill on the feline names already.
I hope they don't change before we get "OS X Domestic Cat".
OS X Kitty has a better ring to it.
Re:Marketing (Score:4, Funny)
How about OSX Dangerous Pussy?
Re:Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
How about OSX Dangerous Pussy?
That would be OSXXX Dangerous Pussy
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OS X Felix Domesticux
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OS X Kitten, warm as a mitten?
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OS X Kitty has a better ring to it.
No doubt, but it's not really consistent with the existing scheme (i.e. the "proper English" names of cat species) and nor does the other suggestion of "Felix Domesticux" (whether that's correct Latin or not).
;-P
So they'll just have to go with my oh-so-amusing suggestion anyway
Re:Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
OS X Soft Kitty
OS X Warm Kitty
OS X Happy Kitty
OS X Sleepy Kitty
But those are bug fix releases ... for a computer program, having a bug is kind of like being sick, right?
Re:Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
Well, for some reason, they already rejected my suggestion: "OS X Pussy"
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I think I missed the punchline..
OS x Pussy = ??
Don't say profit.. Or sex robots..
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Well, for some reason, they already rejected my suggestion: "OS X Pussy"
or vagina.
Re:Marketing (Score:4, Funny)
Mac OS X Cringer.
Then they can license "By the power of Greyskull! I have the POWER!!!!" as a marketing gimmick to promote the following release, Mac OS X Battle Cat.
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Re:Marketing (Score:4, Informative)
Debian started using names from Toy Story (including cute animal names) in 1996. The Tux the Penguin has been around for at least as long.
Re:Marketing (Score:5, Informative)
Apple's animal names started as internal code names (intended to obscure what was being worked on), that leaked out. Rumor sites would talk about the upcoming project 'Puma', not really knowing much about it, and then it became apparent that this was the next version of the OS, so the same sites would continue to refer to it as 'Puma' to keep things consistent.
Repeat again with 'Jaguar', but this time Apple's marketing department noticed that people liked the name, and decided to continue using it themselves. The next code name was then chosen with marketing's involvement....
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Yup, sure, nobody ever called anything after an animal before Apple released Mac OS X.
What colour is the sky on your planet?
Re:Marketing (Score:5, Informative)
It's whatever colour Apple wants it to be.
Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
You cannot trademark numbers.
Also, for most non-techies, it is easier to remember "Tiger" than "10.4"
Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
You cannot trademark numbers.
Also, for most non-techies, it is easier to remember "Tiger" than "10.4"
I'd disagree on the latter. Which came first, Debian Potatoe or Debian Sarge? Damfino (well, actually I do, but,...) However every noob knows 2005 is more recent than 2000.
Where I work, internally, its all git-flow, and our releases have really boring, yet informative, names which are basically of the format:
release/`date +%Y-%M-%d`
Like today's heroic effort would be release/2012-09-11
This date structure also helps with git-flow features, obviously you can't have two "add some bs" branches but you can have "2012-06-01-add-some-bs" and "2012-08-13-add-some-bs"
If one of my coworkers gets outta whack about last monday's release I know exactly what he's talking about, that would be release/2012-08-27 Or I can even find 2012-06-18. But "Rumbly Rumpelstiltskin v2.1D" WTF is that? thats just unprofessional.
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
Which came first, Debian Potatoe or Debian Sarge?
Which came first, Debian Chicken or Debian Egg?
Re:Easy (Score:4, Insightful)
Non-tech: "I remember it starts with a 'J' and um I remember something about an antelope, no, that's not right, um..."
Tech: "Do you mean Jaunty Jackalope?"
Non-tech: "Yes that's it! Jaunty Jackalope."
Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
Still better than their other naming convention, "The New iPad".
Not sure what the next one will be called..
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
Newer iPad. Followed by Newest iPad & Shut Up And Take My Money iPad.
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Indeed. Apple has even decreased the amount of marketing in the last version or two that's focused on the .x portion of the name, instead choosing to replace references to it in a lot of their literature with the codename for the version. In fact, if you go to the OS X page [apple.com], you won't see a single mention of "10.8" anywhere, except for a footnote in one of the subsections where they specify what version of the OS they ran the SunSpider benchmark on.
Microsoft figured that out even earlier, with their shift t
Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
I would wager the engineers play a big role in all these names. Just look at what happens when the are asked to start naming their servers....
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Just look at what happens when the are asked to start naming their servers....
HEY! this is _important_!
Re:Easy (Score:4, Insightful)
But that causes problems too. When the old Rio Vista server gets repurposed as the second WebSense server, what do you call it? I've seen people include the OS, SQL, IIS versions (oops we upgraded it in place), the room number (moved that to our new location), physical vs virtual, etc. and within 3 years, it all worthless because it's all wrong (or wrong often enough not to be trusted).
I honestly wish that servers would be named after something like Star Wars planets or something, it actually gives them a character that you can remember instead of Win2008_IIS7_P_SantaAna (which is, of course, a Windows 2008 R2 instance running IIS 7.5 on a virtual machine in Amazon's cloud, but we can't change the name or everything will break). I would be much happier if it were just called OrdMantell.
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To say nothing of the fact that the version as a number doesn't matter. The purpose of the version is to distinguish between different version of the same product so you know what's compatible, what broke, where to start debugging, etc. Most major OS releases don't even come close to being "the same product" from a user perspective, and the other factors are all issues that developers care about and end users pretty much shouldn't have to.
For things like Windows and OSX, all the differentiation that matters
Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
But it's harder to remember that Tiger is newer or older than Panther or Leopard.
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Yes, Ubuntu 12.04 vs Ubuntu 11.10 is so hard to remember and perceive.
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If they were really smart, the would release every six months. Like maybe in April and October. Then they could follow a year.month format for their releases. So 11.10 could be released October 2011, and 12.04 could be released April 2012, maybe a 12.10 in October 2012.
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The animal names are code words for the project used while developing it, when the release date is still a ways away. The real version number is the release date, and very easy to remember and provides some relevant information about that Ubuntu version.
Honestly, I think all software that is regularly released should use the versioning scheme that Ubuntu uses. Windows is not released often enough for the scheme to be practical for them, people would see the numbers as being out of date, and the Service Pack
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Exactly. See for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mac_OS [wikipedia.org]
http://osxbook.com/book/bonus/ancient/whatismacosx/history.html [osxbook.com]
http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/codenames.html [bott.org]
So the versioning becomes slightly obvious, as do the names.
Microsoft is a bit less so -- they keep a consistend internal versioning system, but the "product" names are pure marketing.
Linux distros tend to waffle between pure versioning and attempting to be like Apple or Microsoft -- which makes sense, as there's no one visi
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Those dumb assonances with their consonant alliteration.
Or Fifa 98 (Score:5, Funny)
Solaris? (Score:5, Insightful)
And Solaris 2.x is SunOS 5.x. There's the software version and then there's the marketing name. If you haven't noticed, Windows NT went 3.1, 3.5, 4.0, 2000, XP/2003, 7/2008, 2012, 8.
It's not really any more ridiculous than any other marketing effort.
Re:Solaris? (Score:5, Informative)
You missed a couple of NT releases, here is the complete list:
3.1, 3.5, 3.51, 4.0, 2000, XP/2003, Vista/2008, 7/2008R2, 8/2012
I can't blame you for missing 3.51, although it was a separate release from 3.5. I also can't blame you for completely dismissing the existence of Vista, I know I would like to.
Discussion not complete without car anology (Score:2)
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No, not really.
Solaris is or at least was a package of software which contained SunOS, Openwindows and ONC.
You could license just the SunOS separately for an embedded devices like Fore which did ATM switches etc. did.
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows, whose current shipping OS is sold as Windows 7 but is really Windows NT 6.1
This is a distinction between a brand name and a kernel version number. Why is this more absurd compared to "Precise Pangolin" for instance?
Regardless, I think you'll find names of almost any product in a sufficiently crowded marketplace become absurd as they try to differentiate themselves and also avoid stepping on any trademarked names. You see this with domain names in particular.
That nothing - what about phone names? (Score:2)
Personally, I'm waiting for Verizon to introduce the Droid Razr Super Maxxx HD LTE 2.
I'm a dedicated Android fan, but I'm sick of the overload of different models and ridiculous names. Some variety is great, but please....
One thing I like about the Galaxy line is that, though there are endless spin-offs, they are essentially delineated into generations I, II, III, etc.
Because Marketing != Version Control (Score:5, Insightful)
Naming a product to sell it in a commercial market has got nothing to do with internal release milestones, and you don't have to be a marketing expert to realize that 'Windows 11' doesn't sound especially cool, whereas 'X' or 'Wild Giraffe' both sound awesome.
The question is more ridiculous than the discrepancy.
How does this fit? (Score:2, Redundant)
Newsworthy? (Score:3, Insightful)
Could we have a tag: 'newsworthy' - something to identify a story as being worth paying ANY attention to?
Re:Newsworthy? (Score:5, Funny)
Pfft. They'd abuse it like the "story" tag that gets put onto non-stories all the time.
I'm a beefy miracle! (Score:5, Informative)
It helps when you're googling to know which software version you're in. Sometimes it's easier to Google for "Ubuntu Boring Beaver" than "Ubuntu 11.04" or whatever. Likewise with Windows, noone ever calls it Windows NT so noone would bother searching for Windows NT 6.1 issues.
It's all in the marketing, as many have stated.
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Nah, that distinction goes to "Windows" which is so generic and "merely functional" that Microsoft nearly lost the trademark in a counterclaim by Linspire, wherupon Microsoft paid Linspire to shut up about it.
Beefy Miracle is leaps and bounds a "better" trademark.
--
BMO
Because... (Score:4, Interesting)
Operating Systems are fundamentally boring. Once you get past the fanboi-ism, they are just software that sits there on your computer. They are there to *facilitate* your work, but they don't produce anything in and of themselves.
So you have to jazz them up as much as you can, so people will take notice.
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Except if the OS wasn't there, you'd have to create it. Every layer of abstraction the OS provides is another layer that app developers do not need to invent themselves. Remember DOS games that made you choose your audio card and video card? The OS is the huge base that lets you build your app pyramids.
what a waste of time (Score:5, Informative)
i suppose MsDOS 6.22, windows 3.11, system V and AmigaOS 3.1 were much more meaningfull, right? jeez, TFA is a waste of time
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I concur. I think the author would have done better to complain about why we call the color of the sky on a sunny day "blue". What's the point of that?
Windows 7 is Windows 7... (Score:5, Informative)
Also, Apple uses the big cat theme for the same reason. Tell somebody you want $30 to upgrade them from 10.7 to 10.8 and you wouldn't have much success. On the flip side, there's not enough of a difference between each version of Mac OS X to warrant each getting its own major number. They're all based on the same underlying kernel and subsystems but have new features and UI improvements as the big selling point.
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Tell somebody you want $30 to upgrade them from 10.7 to 10.8 and you wouldn't have much success.
Not to be pedantic, but the OS 10.8 update is $19.99, and covers every computer in your household.
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Not to be pedantic, but the OS 10.8 update is $19.99, and covers every computer in your household.
What? Even my Wintel desktop machine, my Commodore Amiga, Atari 800XL and late-1970s Prinztronic "pong" console?
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It's only labeled internally as 6.1 for compatibility reasons. There's an article that I can't find that explains it better but this one comes close http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/archive/b/windowsvista/archive/2008/10/13/introducing-windows-7.aspx [windowsteamblog.com]
Comment removed (Score:3)
Drivers (Score:2)
Re:Drivers (Score:5, Informative)
This is correct. MS changes the kernel major version number when they introduce major (sometimes backward-incompatible) driver-interface changes. They actually aren't always backward-incompatible; NT6.0 (Vista) would actually load most NT5.1 (XP) or even 5.0 (2000) drivers just fine... but it wasn't generally supported, and the installers would freak out at the changed major version number (this could be worked around by running in Compatibility Mode to spoof the version info, among other things). Besides, some drivers (notably network and printer drivers, which had significant interface changes) just *didn't* work correctly, if at all, with NT6.x. Windows 8 is still NT 6.2 because, although they've removed a few more of the old NT5.x driver interfaces, the 6.x drivers will still work.
Because... (Score:2)
...dear subby, marketing in itself is absurd.
--
BMO
Absurd? (Score:4, Funny)
Absurd? I don't know what you're talking about.
[posted from Quantal Quetzal 12.10b1]
If they avoided numbers... (Score:5, Funny)
OS
OS:The Animated Series
OS:The Next Generation
OS: Deep Space 9
OS: Voyager
OS: Enterprise
I like Androids concept (Score:4, Interesting)
Not sure about external naming ... (Score:3)
Not sure about why these things get such odd names for people to use ... but years ago when I still coded for a living, if we were working on something, we specifically gave it a codename which a) the marketing guys would never ever use, and b) which made it not so obvious what it was.
We used to find that if the sales guys caught whiff of something, or liked the working name, it would end up being used in customer presentations and generally cause problems as they started selling something that hadn't been released (or even coded) yet.
So project anchovy or project firkin tended to keep them away. This was done throughout development, and I believe was actually a policy.
As to why Ubuntu comes up with such odd names ... that I can't even speak to. Because "Zitty Zebra" or "Punk-Rock Platypus" never seem to make sense as official names to me.
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if we were working on something, we specifically gave it a codename which a) the marketing guys would never ever use, and b) which made it not so obvious what it was.
The almighty GOOG is failing me now but this explains the release of some software I was using from github with the release name "Cinco de who gives a f*ck". At least I didn't have to guess what day that was released, or what he though about having to "work" on his holiday.
There's another project out there using pr0n actresses names as "release names". Come on mighty GOOG, dont you index github?
Revision Numbers (Score:2)
Trademark (Score:2)
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Unique trademark-able names are fine. Giving a different fruity name to every version isn't. The developers think the universe revolves around their product and everyone will remember all their little names and applaud them for their cleverness... but they're wrong.
Android 2.2, 3.0, 4.0 -- ok
Froyo, Donut, Fruitcake, Ice Cream Sandwich -- not ok
Debian 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 -- ok
Potato, Buzz, Woody, Blowjob -- not ok
Apple seems to have wizened up and does not give fruity names to every minor version of iOS. Maybe wit
Incrongruity (Score:2)
"Why is this area of [software] [marketing] so ridiculous?"
You has it
Easily Google-able (Score:2, Interesting)
Only speaking for Linux here,
But googling for generic issues often throws up heaps of out-of-date or otherwise unhelpful hits
For a set of systems that move so fast (eg. 6 monthly release cycles for Ubuntu and Fedora), you need to get more taylored results
Including "Quantal", "Wheezy" or "Spherical" in your search terms is likely to pull up far more relevant results
Windows versions (Score:2)
6.1 is the kernel version, the full OS is Windows 7.
Its the same reason RedHat doesn't sell RedHat 2.3.125, but RedHat 6 or whatever.
Re: (Score:2)
6.1 is the kernel version, the full OS is Windows 7.
C:\>ver
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
C:\>help ver
Displays the Windows version.
VER
Hmm, doesn't say anything about kernels in there...
Personally, I like year based versions (Score:2)
I knew what year Windows 95 came out, and I knew Win 98 was 3 years afterwards. I know that "Prickly Penguin" is after "Jumping Jeroboa" (yes, I know those aren't real names), but I don't immediately know when each came out. And I don't have a clue which Debian toy was when.. At least with years, I know how old a given OS is.
What's the problem? (Score:2)
Far more egregious than OS names is the numbering convention for the Xbox and Firefox. Xbox went from 1 to 360, presumably because Microsoft's marketing department couldn't stand to be stuck at 2 when the Playstation was already on 3. I'd like how they're going to address that one when they get to the next gen model; they'll probably go with a name instead. Firefox is currently at 15 when every update since about 4 has been incremental. I doubt they'd even have gotten to 5 by now were they following proper
car++ analogy (Score:3)
For example, Porsche911 has been around almost fifty years (since 1963 [wikipedia.org]).
I wonder if anyone in 1973 wrote an article on "Porsche '911' - A Nonsensical Naming Standard?"
Maybe people in 2052 will still be driving "OS X" or "Windows Server 2052".
Feature-wise, both OS makers & auto makes have arbitrary upgrade cycles. Industry observers for both often complain about minor do-nothing incremental changes, as well as sweeping wide reaching changes (vista, anyone?).
fwiw - I believe airplane manufacturers follow a similar naming convention (737, 747, Airbus, Cesna, ...).
Spaceship manufacturers are still fairly new, but I bet in 2052 that SpaceX will still be building Falcons.
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I run debian/stable and debian/testing.
I think they were squeeze and wheezy, but I don't really care what the name is, why should I.
I know I've got the current most up to date in each tree, and that's all that really matters to me.
Some morning you'll wake up and your production boxes will have 500 packages waiting for installation and munin and nagios will be going bonkers due to pending packages because wheezy got released that night. No big deal, although I prefer that kinda stuff on my schedule not theirs.
The only problem I've had with squeeze->wheezy is the well reported ? perl sha hash issue where libdigest-sha1-perl has gone away so you get to go thru your source code and change all the use Digest::SHA1 statements to use Di
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Yeah. Why not follow the tradition Pontiac established with their LeMans [youtube.com] brand?