Huge Diamond Deposits Revealed In Russia 243
An anonymous reader writes with this excerpt from the Christian Science Monitor: "'Russia has just declassified news that will shake world gem markets to their core: the discovery of a vast new diamond field containing 'trillions of carats,' enough to supply global markets for another 3,000 years. The Soviets discovered the bonanza back in the 1970s beneath a 35-million-year-old, 62-mile diameter asteroid crater in eastern Siberia known as Popigai Astroblem. They decided to keep it secret, and not to exploit it, apparently because the USSR's huge diamond operations at Mirny, in Yakutia, were already producing immense profits in what was then a tightly controlled world market."
Wow, this is REALLY old news (Score:5, Insightful)
I remember learning about DeBeers and having this bit of information come up at some point.... lots of people in Russia dying mysterious deaths surrounding the topic of diamonds in Russia.
Diamonds are fairly plentiful and common. That they are expensive and considered valuable is marketing... or racketeering... whatever you want to call it.
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Collusion is the term you are looking for.
Absolute rarity is not be the entire thing with value, though... demand is important too... and faith, apparently. Must be the same reason that diamonds harvested by poor in wartorn shitholes are more valuable than synthesised ones.
The bismuth in your pepto-bismol is much less prevalent than silver (there is roughly twice as much bismuth as gold, and 20x as much silver as gold), yet it is considerably cheaper.
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On second thought, maybe racketeering is (was) right at least, when de beers pressured others to enter their cartel, using their near monopoly to become even more near monopoly...
But they ain't the only show in town anymore, and diamonds are still expensive...
Good News (Score:3)
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please let this drop diamond prices down to what they should be
And what price should they be [wikipedia.org]?
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The price that would reflect the real supply rather than the monopoly and cartel controlled supply.
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its the buyers fault as much as D-cartels... only YOU can stop diamond cartels :)
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Problem is that as well as being shiny shiny diamond is also quite useful if you want to cut things. Which means that a large part of the diamond market is industrial.
It doesn't help that Notch has given a new generation a love of the things. And you need a lot of diamonds for that breastplate.
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Most industrial diamonds these days are manufactured diamonds. Much cheaper to do that than to pull them out of the ground.
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beat me to it :)
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"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." -- K (MIB)
The cartels could be stopped, but unfortunately only through collective action. Not going to happen.
Diamonds, like paper (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah it's almost like someone decided to put a funny pattern on some paper, cut it up into small rectangles, and declare it worth something. Can you imagine people accepting something like that?! A completely artificially-restricted supply of controlled by one organization! What next, they arrest people who try and print their own!?
In seriousness, there is no value beyond consensus. Gold is not any more intrinsically valuable than diamonds (or fiat currency!); people simply agree to trade a certain amount of one thing (paper, bank balance, etc) for it. This is why people pay for BitCoins (and other virtual goods), why currency fluctuates, and in essence, how the economy works.
(The malleability of gold and other arguments of function are entirely irrelevant; people always agree on value for some reason, from "I have too much money and I felt like it," to "I need it for my research." Reason is a constant, and one reason is not inherently better or more valid than another.)
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Yeah it's almost like someone decided to put a funny pattern on some paper
Almost, but actually not.
If diamonds were the foundation of our currency then it would make sense to restrict the supply. Currencies must of necessity be scarce or they become worthless, and in the case of paper that scarcity must of necessity be artificial. That it is artificial and thus allows for overprinting and the resultant devaluation is why many (myself not among them) would much prefer a gold-backed currency. They choose gold as opposed to, say, diamonds, because gold represents actual scarcity
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Not true. Gold is a fabulous conductor and does not corrode. That makes it extremely valuable in electrical components, particularly connectors. If we could assemble all electronics with gold plated connectors the world would have a lot less shorts, fires, computer failures, etc.
Two intrinsically interesting characteristics of diamonds are hardness and thermal conductivity.
Can't say the same for fiat currency.
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Re:Good News (Score:4, Informative)
This isn't really news, Canada has large diamond depots [nrcan.gc.ca] in the far north as well. Most are in production now, we've got several others that were discovered under the permafrost as well but they're not being mined. They're even larger than the ~28million metric ton Victor Pit open mine.
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There is just no way I'm spending to months salary on shiny rocks for a girl. Unless it's twice this month's, which would still be $0 (taking a little career break :)
I mean, that's ludicrous. That's a serious proportion of a car, or mortgage paid down, or hell, an amazing holiday.
Industrial quality? (Score:3)
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Reading through TFA it sounds like these are industrial quality diamonds
When I read the headline, my first thought was "The Bear and the Dragon in real life". This is a bit disheartening, but still... (I'm actually reading it right now, talk of a coincidence!)
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The difference is only in marketing. One successful marketing campaign can turn industrial diamonds into gem quality diamonds.
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Exactly. Now that you can make large diamonds cheaply with vapor deposition, things have already changed.
Back in the old days a small defect made a diamond worth far less. Now I've seen people charge more for diamonds with small defects because "you can tell it's a natural diamond, not a man-made diamond." And even the old, worthless, yellow "honey diamonds" are commanding higher prices.
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Actually some CVD techniques create diamonds far exceeding that of natural stones, with a level of perfection on the same order as that of a silicone wafer in a microprocessor plant. These stones are *perfect*, and the folks growing them hope to eventually grow them large enough be able to sell them to semiconductor plants - diamond is dopeable and is a truly astounding thermal conductor, but even the best natural diamonds are far too flawed to create arrays of 10nm transistors on. Sadly the growth mechan
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These aren't even proper diamonds. Apparently, it's some strange combination of a regular diamond structure with that of lonsdalite [technion.ac.il]. It has some very neat properties from industrial use perspective (up to twice the hardness of regular diamonds - think about what that means for tools), but it's not exactly "shiny".
Re:Industrial quality? (Score:5, Informative)
To be even more specific, let me translate a quote from one of the scientists involved (source [www.ria.ru]):
"This isn't even diamond. The hardness of this phase (lonsdalite) is 1.54 higher than that of diamond, and here we have nanometer-sized crystals of cubic diamonds and lonsdalite - it's a very viscous matrix, which is what defines the extraordinary qualities of the Popygay impactite. The proportion of lonsdalite in some of these samples is as high as 70%."
Also, according to the same article, the market price of those crystals is estimated as $2-2.5 per carat. For comparison, jewelry-grade diamonds go for thousands of dollars per carat.
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lol diamond = diamond
No, it does not, as long as people are willing to pay for the pretty ones. The majority of diamonds that are mined are great for industrial use (drill bits, etc.) but not very nice to look at. Add to that the price fixing fostered by DeBeers, which is really just a 'legalized' organized crime ring, and diamond != diamond.
Diamonds are Carbon - Common as Dirt (Score:5, Insightful)
Unlike Gold, or even many other gemstones which have a rarity that enhances value? Diamonds are only of spectacular value, when they achieve very large carat size, without flaws or inclusions.
But there's a mystique , deliberately crafted, to conflate the value of a 2-carat Zales engagement ring with something like the Koh-i-noor.
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Diamonds are only of spectacular value, when they achieve very large carat size, without flaws or inclusions
HUGE industrial demand, compared to gold. Gold has some industrial demand, but if diamond was as cheap per pound as carbide or HSS you'd see a lot more cutting tools using it. Imagine metal cutting tools using a diamond insert instead of a carbide insert. I wonder if they'd ever wear out?
You don't want to know how much I paid for my diamond wheel and diamond stone. Well, I'm sure gemstone quality would make it cost as much as my house instead of just as much as a (cheap) car payment for industrial diamo
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The material holding the diamond wears out long before the diamond itself does. That's the actual tool life limit.
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I was under the impression that small industrial diamonds, for grit and such, have been synthetic since the 50s... and fairly cheap.
Think general electric came up with the process.
Iron likes to eat carbon when it's hot - doesn't matter if it's coke or diamond.
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You're correct. GE and the USSR both started producing artificial diamonds decades ago. Most industrial diamonds are synthetic. The USSR was selling synthetic gem diamonds in the 70s -- see http://edwardjayepstein.com/diamond/chap17.htm [edwardjayepstein.com] .
If you can easily shape it, maybe (Score:2)
I have no idea these days, but last time I spec'd out the purchase of carbide cutting inserts they weren't much more than $5 when sintered into your desired shape in bulk. Wouldn't the diamonds burn up pretty easily?
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If you only have to buy one per lifetime, what's $30-50?
Not very usable, not very secret (Score:3)
We've known about this for years. All the fucking diamonds are radioactive as hell.
Graphite field + meteor impact = nuclear diamonds.
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We've known about this for years. All the fucking diamonds are radioactive as hell.
That's not too hard for deBeers to to spin. "Our New-Clear(TM) diamonds don't just give her a wonderfully radiant glow, they have a glow all of their own." Hell, they could even add a fifth "C" to the classic 4 - Cut, Clarity, Colour, Carat, and now Candlepower.
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You didn't know that Russian Diamonds are almost all radioactive, did you? That's one of the easiest ways to find out where the stone came from, is with a Geiger counter. If it sets it off, you're talking Russia/Ukraine/Slavic areas.
And meteorite impacts are well-known for making areas slightly radioactive.
That will likely make these diamonds good for industry, shit for optics.
I don't get it... (Score:2)
So the USSR was financially strangled during the Cold War by low oil prices while at the same time they had these diamond deposits?
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So the USSR was financially strangled during the Cold War by low oil prices while at the same time they had these diamond deposits?
This was before the Canadians were shipping their rocks, so dumping diamonds on the market to implode the market would only piss off the south africans, who were on the west's sh!t list at the time for the whole apartheid thing. So if anything, dumping their diamonds would make "us" happy. Maybe not happy enough to give them oil out of the goodness of our hearts, but...
I have no idea how to prove that the S.A. were not paying a bribe in metals to the russians to keep their diamonds off the market. That w
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I am curious what kind of radiation they produce now.
Are they alpha emitters? Gamma emitters? Beta emitters?
Either alpha or beta emitters in a clear crystalline matrix could have interesting applications when coupled to rare-earth oxide layers, for instance.
Not something you would wear around your neck, but something you CVD a layer of silicon onto, and etch a photocell on.
If they are radioactive enough to be harmful, they are radioactive enough for passive power generation; assuming beta or alpha decay at
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Can you either:
(a) explain how an impact can make something radioactive;
(b) cite a source for your belief that these diamonds are radioactive; or
(c) stop going on and on about it?
Thank you.
Monopoly. (Score:2)
I recall reading that some time ago De Beers had conspired with GE to fix the price of industrial diamonds. I've also been told that synthetic diamonds can be produced with higher quality than most naturally occurring diamonds, but their manufacture is kept at a relative minimum to keep prices high. Although apparently De Beer's monopoly isn't what it used to be, not that it means an end to price fixing or other questionable practices.
The DeBeers strategy is twofold: (Score:2)
Popigai crater: Origin and distribution of diamond (Score:5, Informative)
A peer reviewed paper describing the occurrence is here (paywalled):
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1945-5100.1998.tb01639.x/abstract
The diamonds are ~0.2-0.5mm, elongate or tabular layered grains. They are sometimes colorless but often are yellow, grey, or black. Rarely there are diamonds which reach 10mm found in the alluvial gravel.
If the deposit is as rich as the article claims it looks like an excellent source for industrial diamonds, although given how fractured they are it won't change the gem diamond market much.
Does the Mohs scale now go to 11? (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Does the Mohs scale now go to 11? (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this another naturally occurring state of carbon that should be called something else?
Yes. [wikipedia.org]
So what happens now? (Score:2)
http://www.gifbin.com/981440 [gifbin.com]
Goodbye DeBeers (Score:2)
know what's hot? (Score:2)
Fiancees who reject the diamond industry!
Yay for rejecting the marketing that every engagement needs a big sparkly rock!
What can it mean!? (Score:2)
This just makes me even more curious about why the geological community is covering up the obvious impact crater in Tennessee!
http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/08/28/2217237/tennessee-crater-inches-toward-recognition [slashdot.org]
WOW, and I am planning to move to Russia (Score:2)
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Funny)
If Russia can help it, not at all.
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In Russia, Diamond deposits reveal YOU!
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Well, 'meme' was coined in The Selfish Gene, published 1976. I think the 'meme' meme postdates the 'Soviet Russia' meme.
Re:And how will this (Score:4, Insightful)
3.1. Announce it woldwide and start frenetically building extraction mines
3.2. Watch the prices of diamonds tumble while you build the extraction mines due to other providers making sellout contracts to insure buyers
3.3. Buy an shitload of diamonds at reduced price and demolish the extraction mines
4. sell the diamonds once prices get restored for a profit
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope. The price of diamonds is completely artificial, agreed upon by all the suppliers and does not reflect their actual value or supply availability. It's the biggest case of non-penalized price fixing in the history of the world.
I am curious if there's going to be a huge diamond down there... I'm assuming that they formed from the pressure created by the impact...
Re:And how will this (Score:4, Insightful)
Diamonds are common as dirt. [slashdot.org]
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The four C's. Cut, Color, Clarity, and Carat Weight. Cut is an artificial item, so let's focus on Color, Clarity and Carat. Of all the diamonds found in nature, what percentage of them are valuable to the consumer market? Low grade yellows and industrial diamonds are in fact dirt cheap by comparison.
BTW, I'm married. I don't discount the fact there is pricing fixing going on, I just questions the natural ratio of quality diamonds that we all know and love (or she does anyways)
There's not much to question. It's pretty well known that De Beers [diamondsclassaction.com] had kept prices artificially high. And if that wasn't enough, now you see retailers charging premiums for shitty brown diamonds because they are now calling them "chocolate". Or yellow ones "canary yellow". They're made from carbon. I'd say that carbon heat and pressure are pretty plentiful on earth. I never thought about it, but I was pretty pissed off when I learned that diamonds will burn just like coal would in a fire.
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Insightful)
If marketing-men tell the women that men need to buy these to "prove" their "love", they can live off the labor of those enslaved by their little scheme.
When I see diamonds, its obvious that these things are absolutely useless for anything but some rather esoteric applications, which would demand the perfection of a manufactured diamond, or a run of the mill abrasive.
If its glittery jewelry, go for the optical stuff - it can be manufactured much cheaper than trying to find them in nature. Hell, so is a Coke bottle.
Why aren't women as enthused over a gift of carborundum? Marketing.
Its much like religion, where microphone-men hock up all sorts of stuff about demonstrating one's faith while passing the plate.
Marketing heads tell us to work our a** off and give them the nectar of our efforts, and we - being the obedient sheeple we are - obey.
The marketing head gets rich while the rest of us try to earn a wage.
DeBeers gets rich by convincing men that they have to be paid before we can get access to women's heavenly parts.
And we pay. And pay. And pay. We are sooooo dumb!.
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Insightful)
DeBeers gets rich by convincing men that they have to be paid before we can get access to women's heavenly parts.
Would it not be the women who are being convinced? I mean otherwise it wouldn't matter.
Re:And how will this (Score:4, Informative)
No they don't. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/ [theatlantic.com]
Short version: If you try to *sell* diamonds, you quickly discover they're now worth a fraction of what they where "worth" when you where the buyer. This is true to some degree with everything ofcourse, but to a much larger degree with diamonds than with other valuables such as precious metals.
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do they have to be my remains?
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Tell that to Minecraft players..
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There has long, long been a rumor that DeBeers will never open an "official" office in the US..
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Informative)
DeBeers had an office in the US. They used to own the diamond mine [craterofdi...tepark.com] down in Arkansas. But due to the Apartheid thing, and the price fixing, they were forced out, and on the way out they dynamited the diamond mine rather than leave an operation working mine. Almost all the diamonds coming out of Diamond Crater are gem quality. The Star of Arkansas came from there. A beautiful colored diamond.
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DeBeers had an office in the US. They used to own the diamond mine [craterofdi...tepark.com] down in Arkansas. But due to the Apartheid thing, and the price fixing, they were forced out, and on the way out they dynamited the diamond mine rather than leave an operation working mine. Almost all the diamonds coming out of Diamond Crater are gem quality. The Star of Arkansas came from there. A beautiful colored diamond.
Nowhere in the site link [smithsonianmag.com] you provided was DeBeers mentioned. In fact, there is no "mine" in
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Informative)
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Yeah, it's called price fixing.
Bastards.
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Informative)
Here is an informative article, a must-read if you're interested in diamonds. It's old (written in 1982) but everything still applies. In fact it's amazing that the public still hasn't gotten wise to the diamond racket in the 30 years since the article.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/1/?google_editors_picks=true [theatlantic.com]
Re:And how will this (Score:4, Funny)
50.25% of us are wise to it. Only the other 49.75% matter.
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Informative)
That article is an excerpt from Epstein's book The Diamon Invention, which is available in full online [edwardjayepstein.com] on the author's website. It's an amazing read.
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Intersting to bring in "blood diamonds" to the story. It's a way to control lots of diamonds not controlled by De Beers by having the public avoid them. Note that Zaire which was listed in the end of the article as a possible threat to the cartel is now a part of the Kimberly process and its diamonds are not "blood diamonds" despite the civil wars that occurred while many were mined. How much of this is real, how much is influenced by De Beers, and how much is fabricated?
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Price is artificial.
Not surprising (Score:3)
There are diamond reserves in the older regions of Africa and North America. It is not surprising that there are diamonds in the centre of Asia as well. The geology is similar. Basically what you need is an area with very old rock that hasn't been hugely disturbed by geological processes. The Canadian Shield contains 3 to 4 billion year old rock, and I believe there are also areas with similar rocks in both central Africa and central Asia. Diamonds can be found in areas with rocks with ages more than 2 [nrcan.gc.ca]
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Interesting)
"It's the biggest case of non-penalized price fixing in the history of the world."
It would be interesting to see whether OPEC price fixing cost the world more than this cartel. I have a sneaking suspicion it would win hands down.
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Not completely artificial (Score:2)
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But the vast majority of the diamond market is through controlling quantity, most are white diamonds. There have been marketing pushes for large carats at times, other times the marketing has been to smaller Russian diamonds, at other times for "investment" diamonds. Both the supply and demand are being carefully controlled. You can not resell diamond jewelry for anything near the purchase price and even at a loss reselling is difficult. People are conditioned to never sell them anyway and giving your f
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This was my first thought, as my girlfriend knows to expect something shiny in the relatively near future
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This was my first thought, as my girlfriend knows to expect something shiny in the relatively near future
Ya, girls, like fish, like shiny things, so might I suggest a two-fer: silver [crittergittertackle.com] or gold [crittergittertackle.com]?
Let me know how it turns out :-)
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This was my first thought, as my girlfriend knows to expect something shiny in the relatively near future
Get a lab-created diamond. A huge, high-quality stone costs a fraction of the price of a natural one. Being real diamonds (carbon crystals), they're indistinguishable without special equipment. There's no reason to pay a fortune for gemstones today (unless you're rich or are stocking a museum, I guess). Find a good local jeweler; they can tell you more.
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Link to a company that sells them? I've been having a hard time finding them
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A local brick and mortor store that does custom jewelry is also a good place to try. They'll have sources that aren't available to the general public and can also help you with the mounting.
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Interesting)
In fact a CVD-grown diamond can be far superior to any natural stone you could ever find - with potentially zero inclusions or other defects. In fact if not for the laser-inscribed serial number on them the only way they could be distinguished from natural diamonds is that they are "too perfect"
As a bonus instead of funneling money into an abusive cartel you'll be supporting an industry which hopes to eventually be able to produce bulk laboratory-grade diamonds of arbitrary size, allowing the creation of things like diamond-based microprocessors which would be impossible with even the least-flawed natural stones (diamond is a dopeable electric insulator and an *incredible* thermal conductor, making it ideal for high-performance semiconductors)
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Use a grandmother's diamond ring instead of a new one. Buy one at a pawn shop. Get a sapphire or emerald or ruby. Buying a new diamond would be succumbing to the world's most successful advertising campaign.
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Do you even know a woman? She would not like this. She wouldn't like the truth and she wouldn't like you lying to her.
Obviously you don't lie about it -- that's a terrible way to start a marriage. There are lots of women who are fine with lab-created gems. I'm dating one right now.
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Funny)
This Slashdot. You must be new here.
What is this "wife" of which you speak?
Re:And how will this (Score:5, Insightful)
The price of the diamonds may go down, but the amount of money you are required to spend on your wife to demonstrate your love for her will remain fixed. Bigger diamond, more diamonds, platinum band, all these options are open to her to make sure you don't spend less on her than she expects. And she expects
you to spend enough on her that you notice the cost. Not enough to cause resentment, but enough to delay discretionary and hobby purchases for yourself for anything up to year or so, depending on the occasion (e.g. an eternity ring).
This will elevate her status amongst her peers, confirming to them and her family that she made the right choice in a lifetime mate: someone who has the financial wherewithal to make these purchases and someone who has an emotional attachment to her that's strong enough to actually do it. It will also increase her financial self-worth, giving her something she can personally contribute to the family (at high emotional cost) in times of great need, or something of intrinsic and emotional value she can hand on to favoured descendants. At worst, she can flog it off if you separate.
Buy these things for her, and be happy with your lot. With luck, you may get a blowjob on your birthday.
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The poor bastards that marry these women...
Yes, I have my fears of commitment just like any other guy, but at least I can rest easy knowing the current lady being given consideration could care less about all this stuff.
She'll only turn into a shallow bitch if you let her.
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It will also increase her financial self-worth, giving her something she can personally contribute to the family (at high emotional cost) in times of great need, or something of intrinsic and emotional value she can hand on to favoured descendants. At worst, she can flog it off if you separate.
As long as you make sure most of the value is in the precious metals of the setting. Diamonds aren't worth shit for resale.
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And this price you pay and the expection that you will pay it has been carefully orchestrated and programmed into your brain. 100 years ago very few people purchased diamonds for engagements and those that did were not buying expensive ones.
Also, she will not be able to flog it off for anything like what you pay for it. When it leaves the store it will drop in value faster than an automobile leaving the lot.
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Buy these things for her, and be happy with your lot. With luck, you may get a blowjob on your birthday.
You know, being north American has it's draw backs. Absurd materialistic expectations from wives don't really have anything to do with love and marriage. I call myself lucky to be European. EU women -and men- tend to be a little less on the money.
(Besides that, I admire the USA for the research and business culture that brought prosperity to many parts of the world.)
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I have resisted the little suggestions for an eternity ring ("what, has it been that long already?") and my observations are based on other women, not my saint of a wife. We even went cheap on the wedding (and proud of it!).
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This makes me wonder if there has ever been a more successful cartel
DeBeers annual revenue 6 billion per year per wikipedia
OPEC 33 million barrels per day shipped at 100 bucks a barrel = 3.3 billion bucks per day or "about one and a quarter trillion" per year.
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I bet the guys in South America could top that.
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Its really amazing how cheap gas actually actually is.
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From a Russian diamond mine is forever with love?
In Soviet Russia, with forever a diamond mine, love only gets you twice!