Bitcoin Kiosks Coming To 5 Canadian Cities 121
dreamstateseven writes "Canadian Bitcoin enthusiasts will be able to exchange Canadian cash for the digital currency through a kiosk that's similar to an ATM. Bitcoiniacs says it has ordered five Bitcoin kiosks from a Las Vegas-based company called RoboCoin and intends to roll them out across Canada in the coming months, with the first machine expected to land in Vancouver in early October. The kiosks allow users to select how much money they would like to spend, insert cash into the machine and then scan a QR code on their phone to transfer the Bitcoins to their wallet."
BitCoins to cash (Score:2)
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*Or whatever their currency is called.
Their currency is called Dollar, it's okay though, that was a tough one
digital currency? (Score:1)
after all the NSA news from last week, how can anybody take a digital currency seriously? Encryption is totally cracked. Whatever "safeguards" have been cracked. Sure, my bank account can be accessed online and presumably owned as well, but my bank account is ensured by the government - digital bits are not.
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Encryption is totally cracked
What the fuck are you talking about? All encryption, ever? Or just Bitcoin encryption? Do you know what "cracked" means in this context?
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I'm guessing he was referring to this [theregister.co.uk]. Why he thinks the NSA needs access to his bank account.. I don't know.
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they don't need to. but their working plan is to vaccuum everything into their dbs in that datacenter in Utah, and keep it on record in case they ever want to inspect it, for example, if they're inspecting somebody else and they want to go three or four hops out from their aquaintances (remember 6 degrees of separation...). So yeah, they're going to grab the data and then look at it later with no notification, warrant, probable cause, or oversight. Maybe my donation to EFF will throw a red flag and get me o
Re:BitCoins to cash (Score:5, Funny)
*Or whatever their currency is called.
Close. You were thinking of the fleury. Following the paper dollar notes being dropped from circulation in 1987, the public backlash led to derisive nick-names like "loony" for the new coins. This was resolved by renaming the currency by a popular vote on 26 May, 1989. Under the new system, 100 fleurys = 1 gretzky.
Re:How about no? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:How about no? (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:How about no? (Score:5, Funny)
This should be blocked by the government until Bitcoin is considered a legitimate currency, and therefore held to the same standards and regulations as an actual bank.
These guys should be charged with fraud for this crap. These are not "ATM" machines. What they give out is not an officially recognized currency. What they give out is not even a stable currency (I've seen Bitcoin halve, then double, then halve in value over the span of a few days), and there is NO INSURANCE through the government if the entire thing goes belly up (don't tell me that it won't- that's not the point, I'm insured through the Canadian Government who will cover a small amount of money if something happens to my bank).
The more I think about it, the more I think this is some seriously shady crap. You're basically trying to trick the public into buying into your currency and making them believe it's actually valuable for day-to-day use (it's not for 99% of the consumers). I mean, these machines sure as shit aren't going to have warning labels on the side that say "Hey, the market you're buying into could halve overnight, making your money worth half as much!". How many people actually using these machines are really going to know what they're getting into?
This should be blocked by the government until Bitcoin is considered a legitimate currency, and therefore held to the same standards and regulations as an actual bank.
You have mixed levels here. The "dollar" (Canadian or otherwise) does not count as a bank, and has no standards and regulations imposed directly on the currency itself.
Now, if you want to demand that money-handlers/lenders/changers/etc dealing in BTC live up to similar regulations to those dealing in "real" money, hey, I would agree with you in spirit - Aside from the fact that those dealing in BTC will have a great deal of difficulty complying with AML regulations by design.
But you should at least strive to make a coherent argument, rather than something as absurd as "all cows must get SafeServ certified".
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Weird.
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And we (the bitcoin users) LIKE it that way! No meddling gov't to ruin the fun!
Granted, I play with bitcoin as a hobby. If my wallet was compromised tomorrow, it wouldn't be all THAT terrible. There's not much there.
Lacking faith in the currency? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's interesting that they're willing to sell bitcoins...but not buy them. Sounds to me like they think that bitcoins will lose their value in due course. One could argue that they're only worried about the security implications of an ATM that gives cash in exchange for a digital currency, but if that were the case, then they'd have at least as much to worry about with just handing out bitcoins anyways (which aren't free).
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The word fiat means "by decree". A fiat currency is one that is decreed to have value by a government. Bitcoins derive their value by market consensus. They are the opposite of a fiat currency.
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No no no no no. The term "fiat currency" means:
I am the very model of a Slashdot libertarian
I post on things I know not of and act quite the contrarian
I read Any Rand I own bitcoins a human very rare I am
For I am the very model of a Slashdot libertarian
Ron Paul is quite by far my favorite octogenarian
Even though his politics are mostly antiquarian
He lets me smoke my pot in peace that really is quite cool of him
Therefore I am the very model of a Slashdot libertarian.
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Bitcoin is unusable for micropayments (as if anyone cares about those.) The reasons are simple. First, each BTC is very expensive (tens of US Dollars each.) Second, the fee for payment is pretty expensive. Mathematically it is small, 0.5 mBTC, but it is enormous when you want to send 1 mBTC (0.126 USD as of today.) In theory, small transactions (both in bytes and in BTC) shouldn't have the fee, but... the fee is charged anyhow.
One can rebuild the client without the fee, but then your transaction will tak [bitcointalk.org]
Re: Lacking faith in the currency? (Score:2)
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you can login via Facebook like I just did here to post
I'm afraid you have to surrender your geek card immediately :-)
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First, each BTC is very expensive (tens of US Dollars each.)
How is that relevant? You can use less than a whole BTC, as you seem to acknowledge in your post. You can just call 1 BTC as 1000 mBTC if you want. Complaining that 1000 mBTC is expensive is like criticizing the US Dollar because hundred dollar bills are expensive.
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It is relevant for micropayments. They are small - from 1 cent to 10 cents, as theorized (they don't exist.) Since each BTC is large (1000 mBTC == USD$ 126) the micropayment in BTC will be between 0.1 and 1 mBTC.
Now that we established that, the transaction fee is 0.5 mBTC. It is not a percentage of the payment, it's a fixed fee. How much would you like to use a payment system that takes from 50% to 80% of your payment just for the privilege of using it? Most of your money will be spent on BTC network se
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What transaction fee?
THAT transaction fee. The one that is in practice necessary for anyone to pay attention to your transaction. Is there anyone in the world that owes you six confirmations of your transaction within ten minutes? Click on the link that I provided. You don't have to add a fee; and the miners don't have to service your request. It's not like they are a bank, with you as a customer. There is no contract. The rose-colored glasses are off; BTC is no longer a network of friends, and the miner
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It's interesting that they're willing to sell bitcoins...but not buy them.
Know how I can tell you didn't read the article?
(emulating snarky tone)
Know how I can tell you don't know investing or economics?
I think you're forgetting the concepts of short and long investing, or thinking they are somehow the same. People who think a certain instrument...be it houses, a precious metal, or tulips...will take short positions on it, buying some based on short-term fluctuations and then selling. They will buy *very* little, and only in ways that they control...which would not be the case if they took cash at these machines. If they do
Much like Gold (Score:1, Funny)
Gold, that wonderful investment that will save the world.
What, say that again? You will take my soon to be worthless cash for GOLD! You must be crazy. You yourself told me cash would soon be worthless and GOLD will save the planet from poverty.
Re:Much like Gold (Score:4, Informative)
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Gold is a safe haven not an investment.
Those like myself that invested in significant amounts of gold ( > 50,000 US ) disagree.
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Help me understand. You bought gold, to protect your capital. But do you have the actual gold? Or do you just have a receipt that you own a certain amount, trusting that this document will be recognized?
Even if you do have the actual gold, I'm skeptical about how much you can actually use it in times of need.
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My question is, and this is an open question that I'm not sure if there is an answer to or not is: Is there still a lot of gold in Fort Knox compared to when we were on the gold standard. My guess would be that the nation used that gold for covert ops when we went fiat. Once the money was found solvent, suddenly that was like having a Fort Knox wo
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Does anyone know if there is gold in Fort Knox still? Or is this one of those questions that isn't supposed to be asked or answered? If so, I apologize for asking it, but I'd be enlightened to know anything about this situation.
147.3 million troy ounces [usmint.gov]
And, if you don't believe the government, the Mint is audited by KPMG [usmint.gov]
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Having a fort full of gold is good in dire emergency. It sounds to be about 200 billion dollars.
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Get out while you can, gold is going to crash under $500 by 2020.
Gold for jewelry has fallen out of fashion in favor of titanium, carbide, and other durable and flashy metals. Other than jewelry gold has very limited uses, almost exclusively in obscure sensitive electronics. The recent prices of gold have driven most users to find alternatives which, unlike jewelry trends, permanently decreases industrial demand. Highly conductive nanoparticles are a good example of developing technologies that will replace
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Other than jewelry gold has very limited uses, almost exclusively in obscure sensitive electronics.
Like smartphones, PCs and high-quality A/V cables?
Re:Lacking faith in the currency? (Score:5, Informative)
If you read the article linked, you will know that these machines will both sell and BUY bitcoins.
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Bitcoin up or down, there is always money to be made in the transaction fee. What...you thought you were going to get free or going/instant market rate bit coins?!?!
transaction fees (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep, you just hit on what I think is pretty much "key" here.
When you look at all of the (often ridiculous) alt-coins out there on the exchanges, you realize developers can create a new one out of thin air, based on the source code used to design a previous coin, give it a new name, and voila - it's out there.
The truth is though, investors are only buying the things because they're cheap (think "penny stocks" here) and because at least early on, it's possible to buy enough of the sum total of the coins in existence so you can play "pump and dump" schemes -- forcing the price up temporarily with big purchase orders, and cashing in for a tidy little profit when you sell them all off again ASAP.
The online exchanges are more than happy to list these worthless "joke coins" though because they get a cut of each transaction, no matter what happens. As long as someone is willing to put in buy and sell orders, it's worth offering.
Of course, bitcoin has established itself far more than these other alt-coins (perhaps simply the privilege of being first with the idea?), and is actually accepted as currency for a number of goods and services -- but the same thing applies. If you're helping the currency change hands, you're always earning a profit off the top, no matter if the coin's value is headed up or down. It's the best "investment position" of all from the standpoint of safely making a steady profit.
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Sounds to me more like they're interested in tapping into the "Silk Road" market, seeing as they take cash.
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It's interesting that they're willing to sell bitcoins...but not buy them.
A grocery store is willing to sell you a bottle of milk. But if you take a bottle of milk into a grocery store, they won't buy it.
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Milk is not money. Money is supposed to be universally exchangeable. That's the whole purpose.
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How is this Score:4? Has no one read the article?
The kiosks allow users to select how much money they would like to spend, insert cash into the machine and then scan a QR code on their phone to transfer the Bitcoins to their wallet. It also allows users to redeem their Bitcoins for cash.
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It will be interesting to see if they can do it (Score:3, Interesting)
The real trick here will be to get a two way system of CASH to bitcoins. From a physical untraceable medium of exchange to a digital one.
Many governments of course have a problem with it. We'll see what happens.
I am of two minds about it.
I think the average person should be able to do this sort of thing. I also want the government to be able to track and trace this stuff if they really need to do it.
I guess, I want there to be some way to track it but I want it to be complicated, time consuming, and generally not worth it unless they REALLY want to know. If there were some terrorists going to blow up thousands of people... I'd want there to be a way to stop that. But I generally want to be personally left alone to do what I want.
This sounds a lot like my ideas on cake. (Score:3)
Everyone should be able to have it, and eat it too.
Re: It will be interesting to see if they can do i (Score:2)
The simple truth is that social freedom is not free. It comes with a price. And the opposite of freedom, control, comes with consequences. You either need to be willing to pay the price of freedom, or live with the consequences of control. You can't have both. I wish more people understood that.
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So I need to accept anarchy or despotism?
There is no possibility of having reasonable counter measures to hostile forces AND civil rights?
Give me an f'ing break.
What are you advocating for here? Mass human enslavement? Or are you advocating for the dissolution of human society itself?
Reevaluate your argument. Its irrational and politically counter productive.
In the words of my generation... your comment is retarded. Try again.
Before you presume to be offended, I'll point out you came off as hostile to me wi
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To elaborate, I'm not claiming your only choices are anarchy or despotism, I'm just stating that you can either have real freedom, or you can have governance... you can't have both. Sure, you can try to fumble around with a complicated system of trusts and balances but it will eventually, and always, gradually atrophy into abuse by those in power and apathy by the complacent public.
If you give
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Your definition of real freedom appears to be anarchy and your definition of governance appears to be unrestrained unlimited government peonage.
I do not see how you can make the argument that I can only have one of those two options.
What's more, anarchy is self defeating. So you're really saying I have no choice but peonage. I will resist that.
What I want is for them to have enough authority to deal with extreme situations but for the power to be awkward enough that it won't be used in anything but extreme
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As the last 10+ years have proven beyond any shadow of doubt, that's not possible. You either have the Lidless Eye watching everything you do and occasionally catching bad guys, or you don't. Even if we assume a hypothethical intelligence agent who's absolutely immune to corruption, they still have no magical ability to tell whethe
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I don't think you appreciate what I'm saying.
I am saying it is fine if the government can breach the security and get the information.
It just have to be complicated and labor intensive to such an extent that they don't do it unless they have probable cause.
I don't see why everything has to be easily searchable by automated computer systems when what we're tracking is a minority of a minority of a minority.
And Slashdot still does not accept Bitcoins. (Score:3, Insightful)
Until we can donate with Bitcoins how serious should we take all these pro Bitcoin articles if the site itself doesn't trust the technology?
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Why would anyone want to donate to slashdot?
Because it is a glorious utopia of libertarian disinformation, propaganda, and nerds in their basements whining about things they barely know anything about! Who could want anything more?
already have electronic token currency (Score:1)
Most US and Canadian dollars and euros and yen are just numbers in a computer. Why do we need bitcoin, you can only buy trendy overpriced crap from a relatively few places with it. and its value recently is volatile as hell [blockchain.info] Fuck bitcoins.
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The important part about bitcoin isn't that it's digital. That's been done many times. The revolutionary part is that it's decentralized. There is no government, organization, or corporation controlling it. There is no one who can freeze your account. There is no one who can set limits on your account. There is no one who can control who you can send money to. There is no one who can turn up the mint rate and destabilize the market.
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There is no one who can freeze your account. There is no one who can set limits on your account. There is no one who can control who you can send money to. There is no one who can turn up the mint rate and destabilize the market.
If only that were true. Ask the users with thousands of dollars stuck in Mt. Gox, or worse, one of the "exchange" or "online wallet" companies that went bust. Sure, you can ship Bitcoins around, but there are serious liquidity problems doing anything with them.
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oh I am scared of paper money/mainstream digital money, but its the only game in town.
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might be good for many people, but my bank, which is a national chain, doesn't charge me to use its ATM or those of its affiliates. but having bitcoin value drop a large percentage in a short time is the same as middleman, though if you acquire them at the right time you get super interest.....well, too crazy for me.
Smartphone: 35 USD per month (Score:2)
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Minutes between scan and acting (Score:2)
You mean the ~$50 it costs to buy a used phone off craigslist and use it as a portable computing device with no phone service
I own such a portable computing device: an Archos 43 Internet Tablet. But I thought one needed cellular data service in order to have a data connection with which to act on the information in the scanned QR code. Or is there a procedure that allows scanning the QR code, waiting several minutes to an hour to find a Wi-Fi connection, and then acting on the scan?
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Not being familiar with the idea, and steadfastly refusing to read the article, I'd imagine that it wouldn't be hard for them to include a wifi access point in the terminal, as it probably needs access as well. Could cause a potential conflict with both sides of the request coming from the same IP, but it's all things you can work out.
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I don't live in Canada. How are these Bitcoin kiosks going to help me or someone else who can't even get to them?
Even once the kiosks do come to your country (Score:2)
There are 5 Canadian cities? (Score:2)
I thought it was just Vancouver and Montreal, with nothing but polar bears and bleached reindeer skeletons in between.
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I lived in Toronto for a while, but I never knew that it's the capital [wikipedia.org] of Canada.
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Toronto is the capital of what? Canada? You don't get out much, do you.
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Toronto is the capital of what?
The Province of Ontario.
So Toronto is a capital of something.
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Ottawa is the capital. If you include the greater area and Gatineau (across the river), they have a population of around 1.2M, rounding out the top 5. (calgary is about a tie in population).
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Sixth on this list [wikipedia.org] smaller than Calgary by 10%.
Thinking Toronto is the capital is like thinking New York is the capital of the United States, when it isn't even the capital of New York State.
am i the only one (Score:2)
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With that logic, why not break it open and then get unlimited amounts of dollars?
(They don't load it with unlimited bitcoins for the same reason they don't load it with unlimited amounts of dollars. There aren't infinite of either.)
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be careful, lest your skanky wife crush your head with it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYmA41QJsyg [youtube.com]
hmmm (Score:1)
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*cough* buy low sell high....
Canada's B words.. (Score:1)
Beer
Buds
Bandwidth
Bitcoin
You guys Rock!
Sustainability (Score:2)
http://blockchain.info/charts/blocks-size [blockchain.info]
looks unsustainable to me
from:
http://blockchain.info/charts [blockchain.info]
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I thought we already had a digital currency (Score:2)
I pay for things with TimBits all the time.
anyone? (Score:1)