EU Plastic Bag Debate Highlights a Wider Global Problem 470
jones_supa writes "An EU citizen uses around 200 plastic bags per year. That's too much, says the EU. But wasting plastic bags is not just a European problem. Countries around the world are struggling with the issue, and it especially affects growing economies such as Asia. Some Southeast Asian countries don't even have the proper infrastructure in place to dispose of the bags properly. The problems for the environment are many. Plastic bags usually take several hundred years until they decay, thereby filling landfills, while animals often mistake the plastic for food and choke to death. Additionally they are a major cause of seaborne pollution, which is a serious hazard for marine life. This autumn, EU started ambitious plans which aim to reduce usage 80% by 2017. Some countries have already applied measures to slow plastic bag use: England has added a 5p charge to previously free bags, and in Ireland the government has already imposed a tax of 22 euro cents ($0.29) per plastic bag. The EU Environment Commissioner, Janez Potonik, said, 'We're taking action to solve a very serious and highly visible environmental problem.'"
England (Score:5, Informative)
Re:England (Score:5, Informative)
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Yes, and everybody got used to it really quickly.
Even though it's a negligible charge, people tend to react by carrying a couple of spare carrier bags with them in case they go to a shop.
Re:England (Score:4, Informative)
It is not only the price but also the fact that there is no longer a pile of bag available. You need to ask for the right amount of bags, and it gets recorded on your receipt. Cashier will also very often forget to even ask you the question so you end up with your stuff pilling and no bag to pack them until you get the attention of the cashier.
It is all the little annoyance combined that make it work. It seems to work much less in Marc and Spenser Food Only where somebody is packing your stuff for you.
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Bigger plastic bags, if you can actually get them, are good for lining the bathroom trash can but nothing else.
I live in a city that has decided to micromanage the local shops by outlawing "single use" plastic bags and forcing a charge for the paper bags that used to be free. You can plan ahead and go into a store to buy a few things carrying a bag of your own, and then find they've got a special on something you want to buy a lot of. But you can't carry it all home without paying for what you would get for free in the next town over.
I've found that those "single use" plastic bags that you can't find any use for o
Re:England (Score:5, Interesting)
What Sobey's did do right was start selling cheap reusable nylon and canvas bags, which they would replace if ever the bag was damaged. I paid around $12 for six bags and some how ended up with ten somewhere along the way. I've had three replaced over the last four years with no issues. People still use plastic bags, I get them every now and then to clean the cat box and for kitchen catchers, but I see a lot more people using the reusable bags instead.
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It is obvious to anyone with an education that hundreds of millions of plastic bags that will never rot is a bad thing.
You cannot wait for companies who are interested only in their own profits. They will not change.
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Seems to low a charge to make a major difference in England but the levy is pretty effective here in Ireland. Reusable bags are widely available from around a euro upwards. There are paper bags available too in many shops. I generally use a rucksack. The plastic carriers supplied by tesco's are not very strong anyway with a high chance of breakage just going from the checkout to the Car Park.
Irelands pretty good at recycling, you basically pay to get your rubbish collected so it pays to be more environment
United States (Score:3)
We have about 5 reusable bags.
We usually remember them when we go shopping, and I actually do prefer them over plastic, because they can carry more, have a more comfortable handle,
However what I can see as a way to get better use is doing the following.
1. Modify the shopping carts to have a good place to store them while shopping. I tend to stuff it on the bottom, however if I have a big item (aka Cat litter) I have to do a lot of shifting around. Having the spot available is also a note that the store ac
Re:United States (Score:4, Insightful)
3. Generic bags. Lets not use them as as an advertising platform. you want bags that you can use tastefully at any store.
I never had any problem pulling out a bag of a competing supermarket out of my pocket at checkout. Or a bag with father Christmas on it in the middle of the summer. Who the hell cares? Grow a skin!
Re:England (Score:4, Informative)
Supermarkets already charge for plastic bags in England.
Some do, mostly "low cost" stores - not Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's or any of the major supermarkets I know of
This issue isn't so black and white (Score:3, Insightful)
Some do, mostly "low cost" stores
And if you look at the places that have introduced the charge, such as M&S, many have adopted a "small bag is free, full size bags are charged" policy as well, presumably in response to negative feedback from customers.
Some other curious data points on this issue, which isn't nearly as black-and-white as it might seem:
For one thing, it turns out that lots of people do "recycle" those "disposable" plastic bags. When Ireland introduced a tax on plastic bags, bin liner purchases increased by 400% [theguardian.com].
For anoth
Re:This issue isn't so black and white (Score:5, Interesting)
> For one thing, it turns out that lots of people do "recycle" those "disposable" plastic bags. When
> Ireland introduced a tax on plastic bags, bin liner purchases increased by 400%.
Bingo! I mean I will admit, i throw away the occasional perfectly good bag but, we use them for all sorts of thing. we even have had a bin just for putting plastic bags in so they could be reused later. Who doesn't reuse them?
Need to carry something that has to be protected from rain? Plastic bag. Need a small trash bag to carry with you while cleaning up? Need a quick "glove" to pick up something nasty? Plastic bags. plastic bag. Or a trash bag...for the car.
Re:England (Score:5, Funny)
I have 2 reusable bags, but I almost always forget to take them with me anywhere. I used one last week, but that was the first time in months.
Its not just me then. The thing is I have about 20 reusable bags - I keep buying one to keep in the car .... take it into the house full of groceries and there it stays.
Re:England (Score:4, Interesting)
Someone posted Tim Minchin's Canvas Bags [youtube.com] song below. I've added it into my current work music playlist - hopefully its catchy message will become etched into my brain, and somehow force me to change my habits :p
Re:England (Score:4, Insightful)
Errr, why don't you keep the rest in the boot (or trunk or regionally-named-subvehicular-enclosed-storage-area)? What value are they serving in your house?
Bring one in, still have 19 left in the boot. When the pile inside gets noticeable, take them back out to the car. (This is what I do. Although more like 6 than 20.)
Re:England (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:England (Score:5, Funny)
Only problem with keeping them in a car is they tend to be alive [foodsafetynews.com].
Actually, that is not a problem. Not only does it affect only the weak and sickly (the ones who aren't going to make it anyway), but it only threatens the tiny percentage of the population who remember to reuse their reusable bags in the first place.
Re:England (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, I tend to choose plastic bags at the supermarket because later I use them for garbage disposal. AFAIK, that's the norm (and very harmful to the environment, but garbage bags are plastic everywhere, aren't they?).
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Sure, it wouldn't ever leave the landfil, it wouldn't ever start eating our non-trash items... right?
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Plastic bags that degrade in UV light would seem to mitigate the danger to wildlife (for surface-dwelling animals), which is wh
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Having to carry around bags just incase you might want to use them is a fairly significant inconvenience. Also while the thin free ones are easier to carry, they are also more easily damaged.
Plastic bags also have other uses, for instance i use them as rubbish bags and when they're full tie them up and put them into a larger bin outside. Compared to full size garbage bags, smaller bags occupy less space in the house, and fill up quicker so they have less time to start to smell.
On the other hand, packaging i
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You hang your backpack off your handlebars?
Re:England (Score:5, Informative)
You hang your backpack off your handlebars?
A colleague who cycles everywhere (even in the snow - he's insane) says "Never use a backpack for something heavy. If the weight shifts it will pull you off track. Use panniers instead and you can carry loads of heavy stuff without problems"
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Taxing is not going to fix the problem (Score:4, Insightful)
This gets fixed by developing a better bag. Better means comparable cost and strength, with handles and environmentally safe.
Jumping straight away to a tax makes it look like nothing more than a money grab.
Re:Taxing is not going to fix the problem (Score:5, Informative)
There already are better bags, they're offered for sale alongside the cheap nasty ones. Either more durable plastic, or foil-lined bags for freezer items, or a range of light-to-heavy-duty fabric bags.
Re:Taxing is not going to fix the problem (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, except I'm not going to use a bunch of fabric bags that have to buy myself, remember to bring to the store, and that have to be washed after every visit to the store. A much better and more practical idea would be a modest surcharge (5 cents/bag or whatever) which you then get back when you turn them in for recycling (which would be required in every store, not just at recycling centers). We already do this with plastic bottles in several states in the U.S. and, the way I see it, everybody wins.
Re:Taxing is not going to fix the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
remember to bring to the store
This is the big one. It's quite common to pop into a shop on the way home, and unless you're driving you won't have a bag with you. I'd love it if shops would give you a bag for a deposit and return the deposit when you returned the bag.
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That would be a good one, and would work well in parallel with a switch to reusable bags.
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1) You don't have to wash them after ever visit, unless you're buying, like, unwrapped raw chicken in which case you've got bigger problems
2) You don't have to remember to bring them to the store so long as you have the presence of mind to know that you're going to the store, or to keep one in a handy place for unexpected runs.
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1) You don't have to wash them after ever visit, unless you're buying, like, unwrapped raw chicken in which case you've got bigger problems
You might want to rethink that statement.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/sns-green-bacteria-in-shopping-bags,0,4837500.story [chicagotribune.com]
Re:Taxing is not going to fix the problem (Score:4, Informative)
I'm familiar with the ACC's study. It's bacteriophobic bunk, to be frank, from a campaign group that's opposed to any reduction in plastic bag use. The main issue is that it conflates the presence of scary bacteria with the presence of even-potentially-harmful levels of those pathogens. It belongs in the same trashcan as those chemophobic studies that find trace amounts of scary chemicals in factory-farmed potatoes or whateverthefuck.
Re:Taxing is not going to fix the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Funnily enough the bacteria, salmonella etc. have a hard time getting through the plastic that my meat comes wrapped in, and my fruits and vegetables get washed to remove "store germs" from everyone who's been handling them anyway. It's amazing how people can make the most trivial change to their habits sound like an invitation for catastrophe.
You don't have to remember to take the bags if you have them with you; and it's no additional effort to remember to take the bags if you are of sufficient mental competence that you know you are leaving the house to go to the store, and not just wander about in a daze.
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The biggest risk is in raw vegetables; they do not come wrapped in plastic, and besides your nasty gunky reusable bag they will come in contact with all manner of dirtiness: packing crates, sweaty shoppers' ha
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In Germany we have no free bags for at least 5 or 10 years (feels like forever) and there is no difficulties in bringing your own bags. Mostly it's a concious decision to go and buy groceries. Then you can just bring 2 bags from your home. And since when you have to wash every time a fabric bag? Everything you buy is packaged. If you not put like raw fruits in your bag the bag will not get dirty.
Re:Taxing is not going to fix the problem (Score:5, Funny)
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Mine's some sort of synthetic, I just machine wash it. I don't know why you would use canvas because like you say it's almost unwashable.
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.. makes it look like nothing more than a money grab.
No; it's a rent.
So long as you do not charge for bags that are strong when sold but soon decay once exposed to free air and UV then this is not a land grab, since the market (which only cares about polluting when it is expensive) will rapidly move to the least damaging option and your 'grab' will shrink to nothing.
Of course. This is actually a land grab, since the market will maximize profit anyway and once we are all used to paying for bags the charge will remain, The only way to prevent this would be legi
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This gets fixed by developing a better bag. Better means comparable cost and strength, with handles and environmentally safe.
Jumping straight away to a tax makes it look like nothing more than a money grab.
Maybe - but it works in the short term. I lived in Ireland for a few years, the 22c was enough to make me (and most people) take my own bags shopping so far fewer bags were used. Now I'm back in free bag country and it feels weird and unnecessary to be given a load of new bags every time I go shopping.
I agree though that even an 80% reduction doesn't solve the problem, an environmentally safe bag would be the best solution.
The cost and use of plastic bags (Score:5, Interesting)
Ok, so plastic bags in the grocery stores here in Finland have cost somewhere between 15-30 Euro cents for, well forever. I could get a proper cloth grocery bag to reuse, or buy paper bags instead, but I choose not to. Why? I use those plastic bags for my trash!
So if I did go cloth or, heaven forbid, paper, I'd still have to buy plastic bags to put in my trash cans. It doesn't matter if I buy them separately or on a roll, I'm going to keep buying those plastic bags until I come up with a better way to get rid of my trash.
Re:The cost and use of plastic bags (Score:5, Interesting)
A roll of specially-designed bin-liners costs the equivalent of about five Euro cents per bag here, and you can get them in biodegradable varieties. You're wasting your money by using shopping bags.
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so why isnt someone attaching handles to these bin liners? Cheaper, same size...
I use my grocery bags for trash also, as I dont like having large trash cans holding large amounts of trash. The bags are free in the states, and I buy a box of large trash bags about once every 5-7 years i think. The cloth bags seem like a good idea, but it is just more stuff to keep track of, especially when you have to leave the bags at the front desk then ask for them back when you are ready to leave. Then they are a potent
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1) My bin liners do come with handles. Really convenient for tying them off. If I was stuck and for some reason I needed a plastic bag for groceries I would certainly take one. (I use them for carrying the occasional inconveniently-shaped object anyway.)
2) You don't have to use "large trash cans holding large amounts of trash", I have bins of sizes from about 1 metre tall (kitchen nonrecyclables) to about 30cm (bathroom trash) and I can buy bin liners that neatly fit all of them.
3) Why on Earth do you have
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But saving time and bother. Some plastic bags here are some kind of biodegradable plastic(or they offer them), and when I throw them they'll end up in the municipal incinerator anyway. Doesn't matter.
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I don't see how it saves time and bother. You go to the store once, and you have a roll of bags for about 3 months. Versus having to go shopping to be able to throw out your garbage.
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It's rare that the trash I produce takes up more space than the groceries I've carried home. Right now I have 4 or 5 plastic bags from previous trips waiting neatly rolled up under my sink. For when I take out the next filled bag. I've never run out of trash bags, and never bought a roll specifically for that use.
My recommendation; ban flimsy bags, and make only the big (40L is almost standard here) strong ones out of biodegradable materials.
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So, it's exactly as convenient as actually owning a roll of bags. What would the problem be if you suddenly had to switch over to ready-made bags? Do you actually use up all the bags you bring in?
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Good riddance (Score:2)
I started using re-usable bags and a backpack when I started having to hike to the nearest supermarket. You can fit more in them, you don't even notice the backpack, and the handles don't turn into cheese wire after thirty seconds with a moderate load. Mine even have a folding fibreboard base so you can fill them more easily. Once you get past the initial investment - and small policy nudges should take care of that - the convenience makes the switch worthwhile all on its own.
Car owners: do you use plastic
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If I'm remembering rightly, they even had special trolleys that the crates fitted right into. Everything went straight into the crate as you shopped-and-scanned. You bought the crate outright, so it was yours, you just took it out to the car with the shopping in there and walked it right into the house. I still see them now and then when someone on my street is moving.
Of course the self-scanning thing is kind of the trick here.
Easy to ACTUALLY solve (Score:5, Interesting)
Waste is a massive problem. And it has a trivial solution. Mandate that all packaging be recyclable, and marked for recycling. If it's not marked for recycling, prohibit sale and require the packages to be destroyed or returned to the country of origin. Anything not recyclable must be compostable and clearly marked as such. Finally, all plastic bags must be rapidly UV-degrading and compostable, full stop. That outright solves the problem of plastic bag forests. You don't need to charge a premium, which does absolutely nothing to mitigate the problem of the bags which ARE thrown away, and only an idiot would believe that the majority of the population will take good care of plastic sacks because they cost them 5p a piece. Requiring a more expensive bag will have the effect of making the bags more expensive anyway; some retailers will roll the cost into the cost of their products, and some of them will charge the customer. Either way, the free market is completely capable of solving this problem with the proper guidance, which is NOT a fee.
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Wouldn't the greater cost of the biodegradable bags also be passed onto the consumers in the form of higher prices? Anyway, the idea isn't that people would "take good care" of sacks they would otherwise throw out; the idea is that people would stop taking them in the first place.
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In industries with low competition yes. That hardly describes supermarkets.
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My point is that whatever passing-on-the-cost objection applies (or does not apply) to a bag surcharge also applies (or not) to his solution.
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Wouldn't the greater cost of the biodegradable bags also be passed onto the consumers in the form of higher prices?
As I stated, some retailers would charge for the bags, and some would roll the costs into their prices. Who cares? Either way, you solve the bag problem.
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You don't need to charge a premium, which does absolutely nothing to mitigate the problem of the bags which ARE thrown away, and only an idiot would believe that the majority of the population will take good care of plastic sacks because they cost them 5p a piece.
That's just it. It does work, and it did work, in Ireland. I remember when the fee came into place and the number of plastic bag littler noticeably dropped, because it wasn't the big supermarkets that was causing all the waste. It was the local corner shop, where people would go to pickup a pint of milk, or the paper and some smokes and forget to bring a bag with them. All of sudden having to pay 15%-25% extra on top of your pint of milk (I forget how much it was relatively) and most people just carried it
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I don't have mod points, but I found this interesting. Here in Spain they charge for bags in the chain supermarkets, but in the "Chinese shops" (budget independent supermarkets mainly run by Chinese immigrants) and take-away shops they give you bags for free. A cheap bag in the chain supermarkets is only 2c, and the impression I get is that most people just pay it, although they do also sell reusable bags for 1€.
Biodegradable is not enough (Score:5, Informative)
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Relevant text (Score:2)
The first half of the following seems to be the important part:
First, Member States are required to adopt measures to reduce the consumption of plastic carrier bags with a thickness below 50 microns, as these are less frequently reused than thicker ones, and often end up as litter. Second, these measures may include the use of economic instruments, such as charges, national reduction targets, and marketing restrictions (subject to the internal market rules of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU).
The Graduate is the reason (Score:2)
Benjamin: Yes, sir.
Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?
Benjamin: Yes, I am.
Mr. McGuire: Plastics.
Benjamin: Exactly how do you mean?
Obligatory music track (Score:4, Interesting)
Taking exception to a statement in the summary (Score:3)
This is technically incorrect. Plastic bags have not existed for even fifty years, let alone a hundred or several hundred. Based on the best research and scientific modeling, materials scientists expect that plastic bags will remain for hundreds of years before they degrade, but that is an educated conjecture, not an observed fact.
Even tests done in ways to simulate time are by definition, simulations. They may well be accurate, but there have been times where scientific conjectures were later discovered to be either incorrect or else in need of modification to correct inaccuracies. This isn't to downplay the problems with the bags, but excessive assumptions only lead to someone else being able to counter one's arguments.
Re:Taking exception to a statement in the summary (Score:4, Insightful)
The decay rate of polyethylene is on sturdier ground than the decay rate of modern concretes and steels, so I don't think there's much cause for pathological scepticism. Unless you're unduly concerned that your roof is about to fall in on your head.
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If we're going to play that game, I'm a materials chemist. Trust me, you can expect more surprises from concretes and steels - amazingly clever mixtures - over fifty years than you can from a simple polyethylene film over a hundred.
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My wife is a research scientist specializing in additive packages for polyethylene. Raw polyethylene, particularly as film, degrades at a startling rate. Anti-oxidants and UV protectors are required to give the stuff a useful lifetime. When the additive package "runs out", the film disintegrates. "Remain for hundreds of years" is the purest of bullshit. The only place where that might be true is in a landfill, where that is *a desired property*. A landfill is *not* a compost heap, and the people who design
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The only place where that might be true is in a landfill, where that is *a desired property*. A landfill is *not* a compost heap, and the people who design them don't *want* the contents to degrade.
Stability is desirable, but the addition of waste is not, especially for whoever is paying for the landfill. Anything that reduces waste volume is a plus, and enhanced biodegradability in non-landfill polyethylene is a definite perk.
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From the summary, "Plastic bags usually take several hundred years until they decay..." This is technically incorrect.
Let me try:
Tellurium-128 [wikipedia.org] has a half life of 2.2(3)e+24 years.
Tellurium 128 has not existed for 2e+10 years [wikipedia.org], let alone 1e+24 or a couple of 1e+24 years. Based on the best research and scientific modeling, nuclear scientists expect that any certain amount of Tellurium-128 will be halved after 2.2(3)e+24 years, but that is an educated conjecture, not an observed fact. etc
Signal purpose (Score:2)
plastic bags in our seas? (Score:5, Interesting)
Five years ago I was on a beach outside Malaga, Spain, about to take a swim in the sea. Diving under water I suddenly saw hundreds of more or less colored plastic bags floating around at different depths, like jellyfish. The sea was apparently full with those, at least along the coastline, to a degree. Some sort of tide bringing these I guess. Needless to say, the swimming experience was not particularly appealing suddenly and was cut short. It was disgusting. I am not really sure how to fix this problem today, but a price tag on each bag and a penalty for disposing of trash in inappropriate locations in general seem like a start to me.
Customer Service (Score:2)
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Damn lameness filter decided there was something it didn't like. Edited ten times to get rid of symbols and abbreviations, still flipped out.
So I changed it from Plain Old Text to HTML and that's the result up there, stripped of all my nice line returns...
Again, good customer service... the lameness filter is easily bypassed and in doing so makes my post look like shit.
Plastic bag weight (Score:3)
Rather than using it to raise funds, how about mandating supermarkets to use biodegradable/compostable materials instead? Better yet, make supermarkets do "litter patrol" like they do in England with McDonalds.
Didn't some Canadian kid develop bugs for this? (Score:2)
Depends on the tax (Score:2)
Follow through (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem with well intended programs is that most of them have a lack of follow through in their chain of events.
I recall when early in my career I worked in a fair size office building that had a cafeteria on the premises. In the cafeteria you were presented with an assortments of recycling options where you could recycle everything from organic waste to making sure that green glass was separated from brown.
When I worked the first shift I would watch as everyone dutifully separated everything just so to make sure they were being good for the environment. I was then transferred to second shift after a while at which point I noticed that every single evening the janitor took every single bin and dumped them all into the same garbage dolly.
The same thing happens with many recycling programs where the materials are simply shipped to Africa or China. They are then disassembled by hand as they value the money more than the computer, often by small kids and certainly without any kind of environmental controls. In order to put an end to e-waste you really have to start forcing in country recycling programs where the materials are completely broken down.
Garbage bags (Score:3)
In Winnipeg (Canada), charging for bags - or even simply flat out not supplying them (MEC), has resulted in such a drop in small, convenient shopping bags that we (re)used for garbage bags, that we now have to explicitly buy garbage bags (for small waste bins like in the bathrooms).
Also, yard waste used to be dropped off at certain depots - and large plastic bags were king. Now, it is collected at the curb side - but only if in PAPER yard waste bags. We had stocked up on the large garbage bags for yard waste before the switch, and I fear we now have a lifetime supply of paint smocks, emergency rain coats, vapour barrier material, etc....
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Paper bags.
Paper is bad for the environment as well. We should invent e-bags!
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Paper bags.
For most Americans this is hard to visualise but many Europeans walk to the supermarket. The bag has to be carry-able with handles, survive getting wet, and support a reasonable amount of weight.
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And handle all of this without any underwear-loss incidents...
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Most Americans can't visualize it because of a 20th century invention called the "subdivision". That's where a property developer takes a large tract of land, builds a couple of hundred houses on it, with twisty streets so you can't see more than a couple of blocks away, and limits access to the main roads in one or two places (a specific variant called a pod subdivision), thus meaning most people have to go a mile or two through the maze just to get out of the subdivision.
All business development is along
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I've had them overflowing with 12oz glass bottles I'm taking back to the store and the bags have survived multiple trips. I've had more issues with the handles on plastic bags ripping apart.
Recycling is a non-issue. And get this, it promotes the growth of more trees which will be used for paper.
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Alternatives are already widely deployed in Europe. By shifting the price of the dominant option, you change people's buying patterns towards those alternatives. Simples economics.
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Not always. The price of fuel has skyrocketed in recent years, and most people do not commute on a daily basis further than the range of an electric car, but even households with more than one car (where the other can remain petroleum-powered) have not switched over to electric cars for at least one vehicle. Demand remains low enough that most automakers have only begrudgi
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That's because electric cars inherently cost a small fortune. (And will do until technology improves.) The barrier to entry is large enough that you'd need a much larger economic incentive before people were willing to switch.
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That's if they know the higher cost is because of the bag. If the cost is hidden in the total grocery bill, then the blame for that cost will be shifted to the store.
Look, most people use these bags because they are there, usually free and they are in a hurry. Until the reusable bags are given away as freely you will continue to see plastic bag usage no matter the cost.
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The cost is always attached to the bag, in my experience. Unless there are some nations taxing supermarkets per bag used or something I don't know about.
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Is it just me that's struggling to see how a 'solution' is to charge people more for something they already use? Surely we aren't going to stop using them because we get a charge added on, more likely we'll get more frustrated at the cost of the groceries bought since our total bill is higher because of the bag-tax.
The idea is that people will switch to reusable bags and bring them to the supermarket.
Isn't there a better solution, different chemicals used in the bag 'technology', alternatives (The USA used paper bags for many years, why is that such a bad solution?)
Paper bags are hard to hold from the top and can't stand getting wet. Try carrying half-a dozen paper bags to the bust stop in the rain and you will see why they don't work so well in Europe.
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Paper suffers from that same problem in a lot of places.
But grocery stores, at least where I'm at, have been selling re-usable bags with handles for years. We've got a bunch of them we've been using for at least 3-4 years. They also charge 5 cents/plastic bag to make people less interested in using them, and I think e
Re:solution not taxation (Score:4, Interesting)
Is it just me that's struggling to see how a 'solution' is to charge people more for something they already use?
At least in the UK, the big supermarkets are already making quite a bit of progress*: they have racks of cheap re-usable bags prominently displayed by the till, sometimes with 'bag for life' free replacement deals, and give extra loyalty card points for customers who bring their own bags.
Charging for bags isn't going to make any significant financial impact on anybody, but the mere existence of a charge for something that was once free might be just enough to nudge people into changing their habits (remember to stuff the bags back into the car when you've finished unpacking - it's not a big deal). Having the charge mandated by government as a 'tax on bags' helps prevent any one company trying to get an advantage by offering free bags.
Maybe it will work better in UK/Europe, where displayed prices for consumer goods are always inclusive of tax and 'what you see is what you pay' compared with the US where consumers are used to sales tax and other random 'state surcharge evaluation fee assessment contribution' surcharges materialising at the checkout.
(* apart from the local Spar which was fairly recently re-fitted with a brilliant checkout design dependent on the plastic bag dispenser that completely fails if the shopper brings their own bag - it does mean they fit 6 checkouts in the space previously occupied by 3, which would be fine and dandy if they ever had more than 3 employees in the shop).
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Its all a conspiracy / major government lobbying effort by the plastic garbage trash can liner people and the cloth bag manufacturers to increase their sales.
I personally hate most of the plastic liner bags my wife buys. They tend to rip much more easily than the plastic shopping bags and they frequently don't have the handy handles to tie them up with. I try to reuse the plastic bags from grocery shopping whenever I can. Anytime you can do double duty with one product its a win in my book.
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I came in here and searched for "photo" and found your post, because this was my first thought.
Photodegradable bags are the answer, easy. They're already the norm in many places.
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