German Intelligence Employee Arrested On Suspicion of Spying For US On Bundestag 74
New submitter Plumpaquatsch writes: Deutsche Welle reports: "A member of Germany's foreign intelligence agency has been detained for possibly spying for the U.S. The 31-year-old is suspected of giving a U.S. spy agency information about a parliamentary inquiry of NSA activities. During questioning, the suspect reportedly told investigators that he had gathered information on an investigative committee from Germany's lower house of parliament, the Bundestag. The panel is conducting an inquiry into NSA surveillance on German officials and citizens; yesterday an ex-staffer told it the NSA was 'totalitarian' mass collector of data."
Gentlemen.... (Score:1)
...we've found ourselves a scapegoat.
Yes we do (Score:3)
The Men Who Stare At Goats
Re: (Score:2)
Beer?
Re: (Score:2)
That would be exceedingly stupid. The real problem is that the US paid this guy and thereby demonstrated that it does not have "friends", just servants and victims. That is not an attitude that is compatible with being a member of the modern world.
Re: (Score:1)
All workers get paid, since when is being an unpaid volunteer (read: independently wealthy) a requirement for assisting the US? Or anybody?
As far as him getting paid by America goes, Germany has an data-sharing pact with us and he was collecting data for them just by sharing it with us. I'm not sure how they can accuse somebody else of them spying on themselves, or how they can claim it is spying.
In Soviet Germany... (Score:2)
the Americans spy on YOU!
Re:In Soviet Germany... (Score:4, Interesting)
He was arrested on suspicion of being a Russian spy. He told investigators that he was actually spying for the Americans. Would he have been arrested if that had been the initial suspicion?
Re: (Score:3)
Would he have been arrested if that had been the initial suspicion?
Likely yes. In is illegal to spy on your own country, even for the benefit of allies. Just ask Jonathan Pollard [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:1)
That's the theory. In practice, Generalbundesanwalt Range didn't even want to start investigating the illegal surveillance of Angela Merkel's mobile phone by the NSA. He still refuses to investigate any of the other allegations of US spying on German territory. The two major political parties in Germany refuse to hear Snowden, because they fear damage to transatlantic relations.
Re: (Score:1)
This is beyond obvious by now. I'm somewhat surprised that the two major political parties don't suffer a larger loss of popularity over this (the SPD is gradually losing in the polls, but arguably for other reasons).
Re: (Score:2)
Three ideas to bring the arrest into focus, Economic Espionage, Industrial Espionage and Extortion. So no matter the country, no matter the origin, get busted being a "FOR PROFIT" double agent and you are screwed. That the US was paying him will in fact piss off the Germans more than if the Russians were doing, they would expect if from the Russians, from the US, oh yeah, they will be hunting down those doing the paying as a matter of principle. Don't forget the US just made the German intelligence service
both true (Score:2)
hell both are probably true...he probably started out working for the US & got disillusioned & flipped
once these guys have been out in "the field" for awhile they get sociopathic...hard not to...your "work" is basically hacking society & everyone you know is part of the con
it's just rough work...and they **get turned**....then **turned back**
at some point, after double spying,
Re: (Score:1)
At this point in the "NSA-incident" the current government probably would like nothing more than to get some dirt on Russia.
NSA: Stop Spying on Americans (Score:5, Insightful)
You idiots! This is all happening because you insist on spying on your fellow citizens. I will support any politician who votes to gut your damn budget.
Now you're going to spy on me, I'm sure. Because you're not good Americans.
Get the message, dammit!
Re: (Score:1)
They are already spying on.
Both because they already spy on everyone, and because you are visiting Slashdot and the NSA considers anyone that knows a thing or two about technology to be an extremist [slashdot.org].
Re: (Score:1)
Devil's advocate : They all do it in secret. Even Germany. NSA got caught and exposed. Right or wrong, it's become ubiquitous.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I have a more devilish advocacy for you.
This is a solid way to get evidence for a court case if you can get a foreign country to recruit your loyal. It's not exactly a double-spy spiel (hah!), but sort of a one-and-a-half one.
You just have to get the courts to play along, so that your guy who is actually a patriot becomes a traitor in name only. Perhaps establish a penal colony on some tropical island. Get three witnesses like this and you have some very specific, irrefutable things to accuse a nation of.
Re: (Score:2)
You idiots! This is all happening because you insist on spying on your fellow citizens.
Err, no - this is all because the NSA spies on Germans.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Later they selected Germans who tapped into the to optical and digital networks. They where all happy to help the NSA.
Generations of trusted, cleared German staff who know nothing but ensuring the NSA gets its 24/7 "collect it all" feeds and other special tasks.
In East Germany you had generations of trusted, cleared German staff who ensured Moscow got its daily updated o
Re: (Score:1)
In this Website you can get information about the Social Bookmarking and SEO and other Hub of SEO. And that are the Hub of SEO, Social Bookmarking, Classified ads, Guest blog and other SEO related information you can get here.
Thanks........
Social BookMarking site [inworldmarket.com]
They already know how to deal with this. (Score:2)
The US has no problem trading a few prisoners to secure the release of their operatives. Surely they can find 6 Germans in US prisons.
There is some history here (Score:3)
The relationship between the CIA and the BND predates the CIA : ) and is at times complex. This book goes into some of the background for those that are interested:
http://www.cambridge.org/us/ac... [cambridge.org]
and volume 2.
Re: (Score:1)
The CIA was formed in 1947(?) but the services that were to "become" the CIA were already active in Germany (see, for instance, Operation Paperclip).
Re: (Score:1)
[US government dept tasked with spying] --- renamed ---> [CIA]
[BND exists] - - - - - - - >
How's that?
Re: (Score:2)
Then you had the Gehlen Organization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G... [wikipedia.org] with US Army G-2 (intelligence) and what was to be/is now the "CIA".
Packed with former Nazis with ww2 networks in Russia to offer. As many where open to WW2 related blackmail by the Soviet Union some where turned.
The Soviet Union and East Germany gained many insights into the early role of the CIA in West Germany, emerging West Germany method
Re:There is some history here (Score:5, Interesting)
If it predates the CIA, the CIA was not born, so how could there be a relationship between the BND and CIA?
German and allied intelligence agencies cooperated DURING ww2. In 1943, the leader of the Abwehr, Wilhelm Canaris [wikipedia.org], offered to assassinate Hitler, announce an immediate ceasefire, and negotiate a German surrender. Winston Churchill turned him down flat out, and said there would be no ceasefire, and the allies would accept no terms other than unconditional surrender.. So the war continued. In 1944, another group of German leaders again offered to negotiate a surrender, but they botched the assassination of Hitler, and, again, the allies refused to negotiate, dooming the coup. 90% of America's casualties in WW2 occurred after Germany offered to surrender the first time, and 75% occurred after Germany offered to surrender the second time.
Re: (Score:1)
Yes, because leaving Nazi Germany intact under a different Fuehrer was such a great idea. They wouldn't possibly use the separate peace with the Allies to fight the Soviets at all.
Nazism had to be utterly wiped out. There could be no negotiating with a Jew-killing ideology.
Re: There is some history here (Score:2)
Your final statement is not supported by your proceeding data. In neither case did "Germany" offer to surrender - it was a single man/group of man. High ranking maybe, but not speaking for either the nation or the leadership.
Before (Score:5, Interesting)
What the article gets wrong and EVERYONE forgets is that the spying did not start AFTER 9/11 but BEFORE new york was attacked.
This was not in response to the twin towers, this was well under way before then.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah but yanks love to glorify 9/11 and rub the rest of the worlds noses in it and use it as an excuse for their past, current and future actions.
I personally regard 9/11 vocallers, like car alarms, i am desensitised to the cries of 9/11 and just switch to listening to Weird Al Yankovich songs in my head.
Re: (Score:2)
It is. You don't even need to specify which Bush. But they didn't act alone. The administrations both before them and after them were also complicit.
I'm moderately willing to believe that Jimmy Carter was as honorable as a president can be, but not anybody since him, and damn few of those before him. Before Truman I'm relying on history, so I don't trust my sources, but believing that there was a sudden change just as I started noticing things strains the imagination.
That said, some were worse than othe
Re: (Score:1)
Obama and his cursed time machine!
Too many secrets (Score:2)
So the investigation into the NSA's secret spying activities, is itself being conducted in secret under penalty of espionage charges should any German violate that secrecy?
We seem to be forgetting why people object to the NSA's activities. Something about governments being open and trans
Re: (Score:1)
Unless that is the German government has something it wants to keep secret from its own people. But in that case they become the pot calling the kettle black.
Well the parliament has the oversight over the secret service (in theory at least). So they have to be told what the secret service does. This information should be secret, because why bother having a secret service, otherwise? While I agree that most political decisions should be transparent, it makes some sense to keep things secret in this case.
Also I don't think the US would react in a positive way, if the BND published all information it has on the CIA in the parliament.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Better yet, a member of the German agency that spies on foreign countries is accused of helping a foreign country spy on Germany...Karma, etc.
Calling him a double agent would be like calling Snowden a traitor. Oh wait.
Re: (Score:2)
So the investigation into the NSA's secret spying activities, is itself being conducted in secret under penalty of espionage charges should any German violate that secrecy? We seem to be forgetting why people object to the NSA's activities. Something about governments being open and transparent in their operation so the public can be assured their actions are trustworthy. Any investigation into the NSA's activities should be done publicly and openly, to demonstrate a contrast with how the NSA operated. Unless that is the German government has something it wants to keep secret from its own people. But in that case they become the pot calling the kettle black.
So when is the NSA going to publish all the data it liberates from foreign governments?
Just a thought (Score:2)
Wait a minute! (Score:2)
And yet, here we have a German, working for Germany's foreign intelligence agency, at least theoretically spying on foreigners (by German standards - note that spying on Americans would count, since we're foreigners to Germans)
Yeah, he was working for the US's foreign intelligence agency at the same tim
Re: Wait a minute! (Score:2, Interesting)
It's not wrong to spy on other countries. But it is wrong to spy on friends, allies and their heads of states, the entire world population, subverting encryption standards, undermining and ultimately destroying any trust into US companies by knowingly and unknowingly bugging services and devices (like the Cisco stuff), bypassing conventional laws and democracy by using FISA and national security letters, destroying every single bit of privacy, etcetera
There is a difference between normal intelligence work a
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Spying on your enemies makes sense, they are after all your enemies.
Spying on your allies makes sense to a degree as well in that everyone has always done it. You might for example want to develop your own assessment of their military readiness and capabilities. You might try to obtain information about their long term economic prospects such as total mineral reserves and stuff like that as well. What you generally do not do is industrial espionage and you probably should not be directly spying on their
Re: (Score:2)
Spying on your enemies makes sense, they are after all your enemies.
Spying on your allies makes sense to a degree
. . . if you spy on your allies enough . . . you can make them your enemies.
. . . and if you spy on your own citizens enough . . . read "The Open Society and its Enemies"