Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
United Kingdom Piracy The Internet Your Rights Online

Piracy Police Chief Calls For State Interference To Stop Internet "Anarchy" 302

An anonymous reader writes The City of London Police's Intellectual Property Crime Unit (PIPCU) is determined to continue its anti-piracy efforts in the years to come. However, the unit's head, Andy Fyfe, also believes that the government may have to tighten the rules on the Internet to stop people from breaking the law. PIPCU's chief believes the public has to be protected from criminals, including pirate site operators who take advantage of their trust. If that doesn't happen, then the Internet may descend into anarchy, he says, suggesting that the government may have to intervene to prevent this. The Police chief believes tighter rules may be needed to prevent people from breaking the law in the future. This could mean not everyone is allowed to launch a website, but that a license would be required, for example.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Piracy Police Chief Calls For State Interference To Stop Internet "Anarchy"

Comments Filter:
  • Police?? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:08PM (#48016879)

    They are not police but more like a paid thugs or enforcers working for a group of corporations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    • Re:Police?? (Score:4, Funny)

      by NotInHere ( 3654617 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:12PM (#48016893)

      Where is the (+1; Insightful Troll) mod?

      • by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

        There are civil masters and civil servants, but often the line becomes blurred and those that should be civil servants becomes civil masters.

        • Re:Police?? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by flyneye ( 84093 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @05:56AM (#48018095) Homepage

          Well, let's hear it for good ol' fashioned Anarchy.
          Did he mean anarchy, as in the anarchy England descended into briefly in the 1800s, or Kropotkins Anarchy, or will it cause teens to become disaffected and wear black t-shirts with the @ and listen to "Bella Lugosi's Dead" over and over?
          Perhaps the internet will only descend into Feudalism.
          Stupid bastards! This is where your taxes go. Perhaps a revolution, followed by anarchy is getting to be more and more attractive...

          Jarre is dead brilliant.

          • Anglicize (Andy Taylor + Barney Fife) = Andy Fyfe ?
            Except more like the guy that insisted on flipping the switch to shutdown the illegal phantasm containment system in Ghostbusters.
            • by sudon't ( 580652 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @01:39PM (#48021345)

              I'm glad I'm not the only who noticed this bastard child of Andy and Barney. But, back to the original topic...

              "In the end, that might mean that the Internet becomes completely ungovernable..."

              That's how these idiots see the internet - as something to be governed. So far, it's been reasonably ungovernable, but as it's gained popularity, we've seen more and more "regulators" try to step in and control what happens on the internet. These nanny types have been very successful in other areas of public life, and they never seem to go away, so I'm very concerned. After all, we've already seen what dictators can do, so a clamped-down internet is technically feasible. I'd hate to see a situation where, in order to maintain freedom of information, we have to resort to a darknet model, and we lose useful things like search engines because those sites can no longer be indexed. But maybe that would be for the best? Either way, I'm not very optimistic.

          • Re:Police?? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @12:03PM (#48020471) Homepage Journal
            I saw this quote "

            If that doesn't happen, then the Internet may descend into anarchy,

            " and thought to myself, where has this guy been?

            The internet started out as and has always been anarchy, and that is what made it good. It has been the last bastion of personal freedom and expression since inception. The lack of regulation and rules has made it what it is today.

            The internet, was NOT created and constructed for the purpose of business and monetary transactions, that is something that came later and while welcome, was not and SHOULD not be the total focus of the network of networks.

        • Re:Police?? (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Archtech ( 159117 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @08:48AM (#48018823)

          "In a mature society, 'civil servant' is semantically equal to 'civil master.'"
          - Heinlein, "Time Enough for Love"

    • Re:Police?? (Score:5, Informative)

      by demachina ( 71715 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:28PM (#48016959)

      It should be noted that the City of London [wikipedia.org] is a tiny part of London, like a square mile. Its the financial district, the Wall Street of London.

      It isn't suprising they are taking a pro big business stance.

      • Re:Police?? (Score:5, Informative)

        by NotInHere ( 3654617 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:47PM (#48017021)

        That tiny part has financed most of englands colonisation efforts. It has helped building a world empire. However, nowadays its weird to see such a relic in a country that calls itself democratic. Having a queen who stays out of politics isn't a big deal. An institution where companies can vote based on the number of their employees, thats in the press and uses titles like "police" is however. I don't object to companies to publish their opinions, but they shouldn't use titles that sound like they were part of the state. This clearly shows their position towards democracy.

        I know other companies fuck democracy, too, but to some extent that can't be avoided as the line between "legitimate participation in public discussion" and "lobby government" is thin. Companies should just clearly state its them.

        • The City of London Police are a territorial police force though; they're all (well all of the full time and specials) are sworn constables.

          • The City of London Police are a territorial police force though; they're all (well all of the full time and specials) are sworn constables.

            My impression is that most policemen are ultimately deferential to those who pay them.

          • Re:Police?? (Score:5, Insightful)

            by mwvdlee ( 775178 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @02:36AM (#48017583) Homepage

            As a territorial police force of sworn constables, are they responsible for proposing laws?
            Because that's what they're doing here.

            • by rvw ( 755107 )

              As a territorial police force of sworn constables, are they responsible for proposing laws?
              Because that's what they're doing here.

              Responsible for proposing laws? They are free to do so - whether you like it or not. Join a political party or some lobby group, whether it's "bad" corporate lobbying, or "good" NGO stuff, you can even start something yourself - and you can be part of the fun as well.

              • Re:Police?? (Score:5, Insightful)

                by mwvdlee ( 775178 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @04:02AM (#48017789) Homepage

                They are indeed free to do so just like you and me.
                But it's not part of their job and they have no more legal standing to do so than you or I.
                So in proposing laws they are NOT acting as a territorial police force of sworn constables, they are in fact acting as a corporate lobbying group.

                City of London Police when enforcing laws = territorial police force of sworn constables.
                City of London Police when proposing laws = corporate lobbying group.
                It's important to distinguish these two roles and their difference.

              • Personally I'd wait to be retired before going public with suggestions done as a police officer. It is true that everybody can suggest laws, but those whose task is enforcing it should stay well damn separate. Separation of legislative, executive, judiciary power, do you remember?

                • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

                  by cmdr_tofu ( 826352 )

                  Despite the horror I feel at the suggestion of requiring me to "get a license" to exercise 1st amendment rights, (what is the status of free speech in england?) I think the police are in a unique position to suggest laws for consideration by legislative branch. I mean the police might get 450 request per day, "please shut down this law-breaking website". I've also heard police Seattle police chief call for marijuana legalization, and it looks like he was heard, which I think probably means Seattle police

            • As a territorial police force of sworn constables, are they responsible for proposing laws?

              No, but if the UK's politicians are anything like their American counterparts, the politicians will use their statements to support the new laws--as in "See, the police are saying they NEED this authority, to protect us from the T E R R O R I S T S ! ! !"

        • Re:Police?? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by WillKemp ( 1338605 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @03:25AM (#48017707) Homepage

          That tiny part has financed most of englands colonisation efforts

          Bullshit! Robbing the victims of colonisation is what financed it.

    • Re:Police?? (Score:5, Funny)

      by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @11:43PM (#48017177)

      They are not police but more like a paid thugs or enforcers working for a group of corporations.

      Corporations have a legitimate interest in fighting piracy. It interferes with shipping, and endangers the crews. But it seems silly for the London Police to be involved. It would be more reasonable for anti-piracy to be handled by the Royal Navy, as part of a coordinated international effort. This could include arming merchant ships, providing convoy escorts, and/or retaliation against ports providing sanctuary to pirates.

    • by gl4ss ( 559668 )

      well, of course, why else would they try to argue for government(police) to have to step in to stop crime, crime that's already illegal since it's a crime...

      I mean, I don't fucking get the premise. Does the chief want more things to be illegal or does he want other governments(of other countries) to make more things illegal or does he want powers to declare anything he wants as illegal, not just things that are crimes now but anything his clients want?

      • Governors (Score:4, Insightful)

        by CaptQuark ( 2706165 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @01:01AM (#48017393)
        I think he feels he isn't getting enough cooperation from "main companies" so he wants more control on who can use the internet. Want to use the internet? Get a license. Want to create a web page? Get a license. Want to buy something on the internet? Want to download something? Want to copy from a site? He wants more control to be sure only legal uses are allowed.

        It's almost like the speed limits on the highways aren't enough, he wants government-controlled speed governors installed in all cars.

        “There may well come a time when government decides it’s had enough and it’s not getting enough help from those main companies that control the way we use the internet – they’re not getting enough help from them, so they’re going to start imposing regulations, imposing a code of conduct about the way people may be allowed to operated on the internet,” Fife says.

        ~~

    • by AK Marc ( 707885 )
      Like every city in the USA. I was born and grew up in Dallas. Which was "incorporated" (made into a corporation). There are small parts of land around the area that are unincorporated, but most land in and around every US city is a corporation. That you don't know what a corporation is doesn't change the fact that it's a term for a group of people (like a regular US city). It's just a little archaic, even if in common use continually for places like London and cities in the US, though they are called in
  • by crioca ( 1394491 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:13PM (#48016897)
    How about protecting the public from the lobbyists and legislators pushing oppressive copyright laws?
  • Anarchy??? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by _Sharp'r_ ( 649297 ) <sharper AT booksunderreview DOT com> on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:15PM (#48016913) Homepage Journal

    The Internet has already descended into Anarchy.

    That's why we like it. The rules are made by the people who own/run/create/manage it, by mutual agreement, not enforced from the top down. If people don't agree, they go their separate ways, because you can't be forced to allow someone on your network if they violate your network's rules.

    The Internet is fine. We like it how it is. No need for more government regulation to ruin it on behalf of those with influence with government officials/politicians/bureaucrats.

    • Re:Anarchy??? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by fabioalcor ( 1663783 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:49PM (#48017031)

      The Internet has already descended into Anarchy.

      It has not descended, it was born as an Anarchy. Internet is anarchic by design. That's the way it always was, is, and must be.
      A computer net with strict rules is not internet, it's something else.

      • Re:Anarchy??? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by DivineKnight ( 3763507 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @12:22AM (#48017285)

        He's a police officer...he doesn't understand any kind of design other than an Authoritarian hierarchy. You can tell him how the internet works, and he won't believe you...or he'll look at the DNS servers, see the hierarchy there, and claim that it is hierarchical after all. He's spent his entire life fighting against 'Anarchy' (watchword), and he'll be damned if he'll let it exist once he's discovered a 'nest' of it.

        He's off in his own little world, fighting a war against tilting windmills...

      • AOL or Compuserve it is then.

      • It has not descended, it was born as an Anarchy. Internet is anarchic by design.

        The internet != TCP/IP.

        TCP/IP was designed to be peer-to-peer, and assumed that you could trust your directly connected peers to behave themselves. There's your anarchy. But the internet depends upon things like IP allocation and name resolution, which are the opposite of anarchic.

    • The Internet has already descended into Anarchy.

      You beat me to it. I was going to respond, "YOU'RE TOO LATE!!!!!"

      --
      .nosig

      • by itzly ( 3699663 )

        You beat me to it. I was going to respond, "YOU'RE TOO LATE!!!!!"

        Yes, but you were too late.

    • by amiga3D ( 567632 )

      If he thinks the web is anarchic he should try IRC. That's wild west type anarchy. I used to hang out in #amiga_warez on Galaxynet back in the day before I even had a web browser. I remeber one of the early ISPs in town had IRC listed in their brochure as exactly that, the wild west of the internet. The brochure stated that if you didn't like getting attacked to stay away. Interesting and fun times before full comercialization of the internet. Now this cocksucker wants to license web sites. I hope hi

    • Re:Anarchy??? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by hey! ( 33014 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @12:16AM (#48017267) Homepage Journal

      Somebody forwarded me an article the other day about how we should all switch to dairy from grass fed cows. Now many of the points in the piece I happen to agree with, but one of the claims was that grass-fed dairy has fewer "toxins". Whenever I see "toxins" used without further specification as to what exactly the "toxin" is, that's a signal that someone's trying to sell something expensive but useless -- which turned out to be the case. The piece was hawking stuff you were supposed to mix into your grass-fed milk, which is a good way to expose yourself to toxins given how weakly regulated supplements are.

      People use ideas like "law and order" in just the same way as marketers use "toxins". It's all well and good to say you're going to stop people from breaking the law on the Internet, but what specifically are you proposing to do? Set up an anti-fraud unit? I'll cheer you on. Monitor everyone's email? That cure's worse than the disease.

      But I also have to say that the word "freedom" is just as subject to misuse -- or in this case "anarchy". Now there are many things about anarchy I like. There are others I don't. I don't like having to remove malware off my wife's computer. I don't like having to be vigilant that my older relatives aren't taken in by Internet scammers. I don't like having to deal with attacks on my websites. Even government agencies poking around in your Internet data -- that could be seen as a case of the agency exploiting a specific lack of Internet regulation.

      I'm all for reducing my exposure to toxins, but I'm not going to get colon irrigated. I'm for cracking down on Internet crime, but not at the expense of the government doing things that *ought* to be criminalized. I'm for freedom, but not the freedom to interfere with other people's freedom. It's really not that complicated. Find out the specifics of what people are proposing to do, even when their stated goal sounds reasonable.

    • What do you mean, "descended" into anarchy? It fucking started that way.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Correction: *Risen* into anarchy ...

    • Re:Anarchy??? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @01:24AM (#48017449)

      Well... almost, but not quite. In its actuality, the internet is a collection of a lot of tiny absolute dictatorships. With the main difference being that you can easily start your own if you're not happy with any of the other ones. With blackjack and hookers if you so please.

      The difference to reality is that it is trivial to vote with your boots if you don't like the dictatorship you're under. So those tinpot dictators have to be civil if they want to have any citizens. But, in the end, the word of the owner of the board, webpage or whatever else he may run is still law in his tiny corner of the planet.

      The only threat to freedom in this setup is when such a tinpot dictator is getting too much power, i.e. when it becomes near mandatory to live under his rules. For reference, see Facebook.

  • by chromaexcursion ( 2047080 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:26PM (#48016949)
    Pay a fee for a license?
    This idiot lives in the UK. Obviously totally clueless.
    I though US lawmakers were stupid. This toad is a dumb cop from a different country. Gives new meaning to stupid.

    I suspect this story won't get much more press, this guy is up there with Sarah Palin for intelligence.
    • Re:What a fool (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jason Levine ( 196982 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:39PM (#48016995) Homepage

      Not to mention: How are you going to enforce this?

      Let's assume that this guy somehow is successful and starting tomorrow, everyone in the UK needs to obtain a license before starting a website.

      First, they would need to define "a website." Is a Facebook page a website? A Twitter feed? A Google+ page. People can those just like any WordPress blog. What if you're starting a new web service that you hope to go commercial with at some point. Do you need to apply for a license before you can publish one line of HTML code?

      After this would come the big problems: Namely, how do you identify these rouge, unlicensed website operators? If I were living in the UK and opened an account with a US hosting firm, using a domain registrar located outside of the UK, how could the UK authorities tell that I was the one behind the website? Registrars have privacy settings that enable you to hide your WHOIS address and I doubt many non-UK registrars would bother with UK police calling them up demanding the personal information of their clients. Same goes for those non-UK hosting providers.

      I almost want them to try instituting a "create a website license" just to see it crash and burn. Almost. In reality, I realize that they wouldn't attempt to apply it 100% but would simply use it to either add a charge onto someone whose online opinions they don't like or to silence critics. (You want to speak out against us? What a coincidence, your website license has mysteriously been revoked. You have a week to shut down your blog.)

      • by Calydor ( 739835 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @01:14AM (#48017425)

        how do you identify these rouge, unlicensed website operators?

        By catching them red-handed.

    • by amiga3D ( 567632 )

      If he were only a bit more ignorant he could be as fucking stupid as Nancy Pelosi.

    • He sounds like he works for Putin.

  • by viperidaenz ( 2515578 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:27PM (#48016953)

    Change the law to make what everyone does anyway legal.

  • by EmperorOfCanada ( 1332175 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:33PM (#48016969)
    Does this benefit the population at large or does this benefit corrupt officials and the large corporations that corrupted them?
  • At least they didn't hire Barney.

  • Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)

    by Areyoukiddingme ( 1289470 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:35PM (#48016979)

    Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
    Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
    Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.
    Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
    Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
    Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
    Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
    Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

    And... the Internet shall descend into Anarchy! With a capital Anarchy!

  • by curmudgeon99 ( 1040054 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:36PM (#48016983)
    That is certainly rich. The "City of London" is a lawless square mile in the center of London that is not subject to the laws of England. It is the center of all the tax evasion secrecy jurisdictions around the world. If you think of the rampant and lawless tax evasion that goes on in places such as the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, the British Virgin Islands, the Channel Islands of Guernsey, Isle of Man and Jersey, they are all directed from this cesspool of lawless behavior known as the City of London.
    For context I direct you to the magnificent book by Nicholas Shaxton called Treasure Islands: Uncovering the Damage of Offshore Banking and Tax Havens [amazon.com]. But don't stop there. Further evidence of the vile and lawless damage the City of London does to the world:
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      You missed out the Freemasons, Rothschilds and giant shape-shifting lizards. It's depressing that you've been modded Insightful. The City of London is subject to the same laws as the rest of England and is not a tax haven.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 29, 2014 @09:12AM (#48019007)

        The city of London is not subject to the same laws as the rest of England. It has at least three special rights granted to the City of London by parliment.

        1) In no other jurisdiction in the UK ( England is a part of the UK ) do corporation have the right to vote in municipal elections. The City of London allows corporations to vote in municipal elections.

        2) In no jurisdiction in the UK does a person have more than one vote as based on their family size. The City of London allows that the number of votes a corporation has is based upon the employee count of the corporation.

        3) In no jurisdiction in the UK can a human have only a post office box inside the voting boundries and be considered a valid voter. The City of London has the right to allow corporations with no presence in the municipal boundries other than a post office box to vote in municipal elections.

        4) The City of London has a special officer in parliment whom is not considered a lobbiest even though the activities of the special officer are sometimes presented a "reminding the members of parliment of the rights granted to the City of London and it's voting members" oh and those rights were granted centuries ago.

        5) It is not a tax haven by definition ... because it has greater input and in some degree a bit of control of the corporate (specifically finacial industry ) tax rates in the UK than any other municipal jurisdiction.

  • Any relation to Barney Fife? He shows the same keen understanding of the law and uncanny insight into what police work is all about. He simply will not tolerate online anarchy; he intends to nip it, nip it in the bud.

  • by Jason Levine ( 196982 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @10:42PM (#48017009) Homepage

    I'm not an expert on the UK by any stretch of the imagination, but I seem to recall that the City of London Police are a small force that are responsible for a small section of London. They are mostly known for making outrageous statements about expanding police powers.

    Can someone with more UK knowledge clarify the "City of London Police" situation?

    • For historical reasons, the CoL is semi-independant. It got a charter back when the country was still under the rule of kings, many centuries ago. It's unusual in being overtly governed by corporate interests, which has lead to some accusations that CoLP are a bit too close to those who pay their wages.

      CoLP are responsible for regular stop-the-mugger policing in the area, but their main activities are in the type crime that comes from being a financial district. Fraud and financial crime. They also devote a

  • Fortunately bozos like this doofus only have jurisdiction over a couple of square miles of land, not the entire global internet.

    Wanker.

  • um... can we start with protecting ourselves against the Government?

    They steal our children. Provable fact. (3500 children of foreign nationals stolen for financial gain since 2005 - that they've admitted to, and I hold the evidence).
    They abduct people and incarcerate them when they complain about the way they were treated in state-run children's homes. Also a provable fact (Melanie Shaw, Robert Green, Jack Frost, to name but three).
    They murder their own. Also a provable fact (Dr. John Kelly).
    They cover pae

  • is that this guy in his head thinks this will work. How the fuck would a sane adult even come up with this and then state it publicaly. We all know no crime happens tto any business that has a license and there are no crooked/illegal buisnesses in the uninternet world.

    • The less you know, the easier it is to fantasize the implementation.

      Which reminds me. NASA, what's taking you so long to colonize Venus? It's right there! Have it done by next Tuesday, or I'm going to vote to have your budget slashed.

  • Dear PIPCU (Score:4, Insightful)

    by spiritplumber ( 1944222 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @11:17PM (#48017113) Homepage
    no. signed, the internet.
  • by SlovakWakko ( 1025878 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @11:48PM (#48017189)
    What a neat trick! Now nobody will be able to create a pirate web site... on a server located in the City of London. Wow, we're all screwed.
  • by Engeekneer ( 1564917 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @12:22AM (#48017283)

    Oh Scotland. You had a chance to get away from this madness. You should have taken it. Maybe it would have encouraged others to follow and eventually left a small insignificant cluster of insanity.

  • So Mr Fyfe, ban what you like within the Square Mile [wikipedia.org]. That should make you popular with the banks!

  • by whoever57 ( 658626 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @01:07AM (#48017407) Journal
    I realized that I have a Virtual Private server that is hosted in the City of London. There must be countless others.

    Imagine the things that they could be used for. Perhaps even watching UK television "catch-up" services. Or, actually running a website in this idiot's own turf. OMG. What should I do?
  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @01:36AM (#48017477)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • He's against Anarchy in the UK, then?

  • by oneandoneis2 ( 777721 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @05:56AM (#48018093) Homepage

    Seriously, I RTFA, AND the link on TFA to the original source. The guy just says he wants to open up a debate about how much policing of the Internet there should be. Where the FUCK did "get a license for a website" come from??? This isn't even a biased summary, it's flat-out misrepresentation. Get this shit off Slashdot.

  • by dcw3 ( 649211 ) on Monday September 29, 2014 @06:51AM (#48018227) Journal

    I saw the name Fyfe, and couldn't help but correlate it to Barney Fife. Two of a kind.

Truly simple systems... require infinite testing. -- Norman Augustine

Working...