US Remains Top Country For Global Workers 123
Nerval's Lobster writes The Boston Consulting Group and The Network recently surveyed 200,000 people in 189 countries to figure out the global willingness to work abroad. Their conclusion? People will indeed set down professional roots in another country—although younger workers seem far more willing to expatriate than their older peers. Where do the majority of global workers want to head? The United States, which 42 percent of respondents listed as their top potential work destination, followed by the U.K. (37 percent), Canada (35 percent), Germany (33 percent), Switzerland (29 percent), and France (29 percent). But citizens in the United States seemed a bit more reluctant to return the favor—less than 50 percent said they either lived abroad or would consider doing so for work. That's in sharp contrast to countries such as France, where a significant majority of citizens seemed willing to explore jobs in other nations. Of course, those who work in tech already know that globalization is a huge issue.
Well yeah (Score:1)
when you're already in the best place for tech jobs, you're gonna have less incentive to move.
Like it or not U.S. has the most and bestest tech companies. France, not so much.
Re:Well yeah (Score:5, Informative)
Wrong, France is a leader in aviation (#2 exporter) and european aerospace,, medicine, nuclear fuel reprocessing, genetics, second largest defense tech maker,
France is ranked #4 in research after U.S, Japan, Germany.
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Well, I said "most and bestest". You seem to be focusing only on the latter and ignoring the former.
Is there anyone on earth who believes France has more tech jobs available than US?
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France is a leader in aviation (#2 exporter) and european aerospace,, medicine, nuclear fuel reprocessing, genetics, second largest defense tech maker, France is ranked #4 in research after U.S, Japan, Germany.
France is also the number one destroyer of their own economy, with everyone going on strike as soon as someone farts and doesn't say "excusez moi".
Seriously, fuck the French with all their strikes. I'm avoiding France like the plague, and never ever will I travel through CDG again if I can avoid it. Half of the time the flight is cancelled, or someone is on strike. Whether that is ATC, pilots, cabin crew or ground personnel.
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France is a lot smaller than the United States. It's about the size of Texas, with a population about 1/5 of the US.
Just based on that you would expect fewer people to pick it as a destination.
Not to mention who speaks French anymore? It's not even in the top 10 most spoken languages these days. It's much easier to deal with a new place where you have some idea of the language.
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the size of Texas and kicking ass in aerospace, electronics, medicine.....sounds like more going on per populated square mile than USA.
70+% of all French people speak english (they have to study it), and in tech/engineering sector it's near 100%.
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Do you know how to get a frog to answer you in english? Talk to him in German.
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the size of Texas and kicking ass in aerospace, electronics, medicine.....sounds like more going on per populated square mile than USA.
70+% of all French people speak english (they have to study it), and in tech/engineering sector it's near 100%.
You know why they speak English in the tech/engineering sector? Because in aerospace, electronics, medicine - they're behind the US.
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I conclude that until 19e century Roman Empire was first. And by now Greeks are the first in mathematics because the Greek symbols.
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No, because English is, ironically, the Lingua Franca of the world. It's higher in the tech/engineering sector as those people are better educated, and the better educated someone is the more likely they'll speak English.
You can stop trying to make yourself look awesome by trying to make the country you were born in sound better. It only works on children.
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My experience in France is that the young people in tech industries speak good English. Not so much the older generation.
The real problem is once you get out in the general public and want to do something like get a train ticket or buy lunch. It makes daily life a problem.
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haha, they refuse to speak English to tourists as matter of pride. You've been trolled by froggers!
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Airbus is bigger than Boeing, EADS (Ariane) is the bigger than any US Company in that field, medicine the US isn't even near the top 3 (if you look at the results, the US is a third World country worse than Cuba)
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Airbus was 33 billion euros in 2011 [wikipedia.org], about $40 billion.
Boeing was $86 billion in 2013 [wikipedia.org]. Unless Airbus more than doubled revenues in 2 years, I think Boeing has a comfortable lead on Airbus.
As far as medicine, name the top pharma or medical device companies - all US based.
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Because the revenue of Airbus is only the revenue of the fixed wing aircraft manufacture division while the revenue of Boeing is everything: airplanes, helicopters, rockets and satellites. Better try this. [wikipedia.org]
And no, not all top pharma companies are US based. Boehringer Ingelheim and Bayer are German, GlaxoSmithKline is British, Novartis and Roche are Swiss, Sanofi is French. Okay, Merck is nowadays American, but it was in fact started as a German company.
So, before you start flag-waving, better check the fact
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The French haven't won a war since Napoleon.
The first major war the French fought after Napoleon was the Crimean War. They won.
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Wait, is this still about their refusal to support, much less join, the invasion of Iraq? Because they felt the reasons given were lies? Even though the U.S. threatened that when the time came for it spend Iraqi money on "reconstruction" they would exclusively source from fellow warmongers?
I'm not sure how you could've possibly missed this -- but it turned out they were right.
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No, foreigners come to the U.S. because, thanks to corporate ownership of the government, the U.S. is one of the few countries that shows almost no favoritism to native workers (quite the opposite actually). You're more likely to get a tech job in the U.S. these days with an H1B visa and a few Java classes than with American citizenship and a full degree.
Diversity vs monoculture (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously some other countries have very diverse cultures and regions too; I'd think that India and China could feel much the same way, but there aren't necessarily the kinds of jobs that people look for in those more distinct regions either. That probably helps make America appeal. Don't like the cold? Move to Phoenix or Dallas or San Diego, all different cultures, all one country.
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I left Britain fairly early on - first I went to Europe (Holland/Belgium), where there was money to be made, and anyway it was fun. Then, after a couple of years off, I tried the UK once again, but the weather drove me away (all the unpleasant stories about the English weather are true, unfortunately. Warming up a bit might improve the place a lot).
So I fled to Australia.
Decent climate, English spoken, high tech, in fact a decent country all round.
Thirty years later I'm still there.
This is how I chose ...
US
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As a US citizen, I can't agree with you more. We have perceived immigration issues, because millions of people have entered on foot or otherwise across the southern boarder without stopping at an immigration station to register. All because there is so much money to be had from performing manual labor compared to any type of employment in many so called Latin American countries. This, of course, is illegal, because laws were enacted to keep undesirables out of the country.
So at the same time, a law that i
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When we used to go toward Baja when I was a kid it felt much poorer than the US, and fairly recently when I took a cruise that stopped on the coast of Baja, the port we stopped at was just awful. I've seen co
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Mexico really got the short end of the stick, but it happened for a couple of reasons. First off was the nationalization of oil production. US oil and gas companies had explored and drilled for oil and were reaping the benefits of harvesting it. Then the government declared these oil operations were owned by the government (part of a socialist movement, still alive in Mexico today).
Although Mexico was one of the most stable Latin American countries from 1920-1970, the oil crisis of the 1970's (caused by
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Sub-living wage is pushing it. I think the goal is to keep programers at a wage similar to other "office workers." But in reality programers are more like engineers, who like accountants and actuaries receiver a higher pay scale than your average human-resources wonk.
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I've gone a different way around.
1. I left Britain for New Zealand... I love NZ, the weather is perfect for me, neither too hot nor too cold at any time, it rains but doesn't feel miserable like the UK does sometimes. Great coffee, good food everywhere, good people who mostly respect immigrants. But downside, very small tech sector, everyone knows one another which I found a little difficult at times.
2. Once I had my NZ passport went to San Francisco. Hate the weather, California is too sunny. Hate the tech
" Boston is very different from Chicago" (Score:4, Informative)
Any American I know have to admit that whereas the difference between american state are there, they are nowhere near the difference between countries in the world even if you take something as local as europe.
Well if you want to get local custom difference , I am betting I would get as much difference from province sud France to the valenciennois where my family comes from, as between boston and chicago.
Look your country is big we get it. But the culture despite local differences is far more uniform than you would imagine if you compare to the rest of the world.
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The point was diversity welcomes people from all over the world. Are you saying that is wrong? Could an Armenian or Dutch or Indian not find a welcoming community with a little research?
I can understand England and France hating each other as in your example, but that was not the point of the post to which you replied, eh?
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Northern France.... that's a very Ch'ti place. Very different from the south.
(Pronounce 'ch' as 'sh'.)
(Sorry, I suppose most people won't understand that...)
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Used to be we had an American culture,
Really? Based on what? Anything but jingoism and commercialism?
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... 'cause: 'Merica! Oo RAH!
Except that the US actually is the preferred destination, so ... that's ... not really so clever.
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Favo(u)r (Score:2)
"But citizens in the United States seemed a bit more reluctant to return the favor"
Who says it's a favour?
US France Grt Britain Germany Switzerland (Score:3)
The young are more adventurous, less settled, and likely to seek international opportunities. I can see that.
FWIW, the US doesn't fail at everything. We still have the Dream.
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The world has always had that dream, you came along late to the party.
Crossing Borders (Score:3)
Once you start crossing borders, 'nations' become less worrisome. I'd like to know how many of the 'willing expats' have travelled out-of-nation prior to the survey. I'd bet that the majority have. I'd assume that there are fewer of the Americans surveyed who have travelled abroad, but this is just my gut feel. I've heard 'stories' mind you, of people who've never left their counties *shudder*.
Once you leave and explore the world a little, you'll find that many places are quite nice to visit / live for a while. Some will be learning experiences, some will just be for material gain, and others will receive opportunities that their own country can't offer. Why the specific people thought what they did was another topic.
Although one big reason is that there's still the prevailing belief that moving to America will increase your chance at happiness, security, or financial success. I'd still consider that debatable, but the circumstances are very relevant.
http://www.nationmaster.com/co... [nationmaster.com]
Tells me there's a large shift in immigration for people moving into OIL rich nations which makes sense since there's probably a great financial incentive to move (10 year old data alas). The US is 30th, so still pretty strong on the immigration front, but seems to be slowwing per capita over time, which may indicate tighter immigration policies or less incentive from 2005-2008. Of course post-housing meltdown numbers would be more interesting, but oh well.
42% are WILLING to work in the US (Score:1)
...the summary says 42% picked the US as their top destination. That's not what the article says. The summary also somehow adds 42+37+35+33+29+29 and comes up with less than 100. The article does not.
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If you can flocking believe this, the summary actually misrepresented the original story's intent. It was to be a representation of all the nations a particular survey respondent would consider relocating to.
And yes, I know in my heart that RTFA is the Kobayashi Maru of the green line site.
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but we have an obvious problem with addition.
thats 205% of the population reporting in, and somehow only one person, an AC nonetheless picked up on it.
reading the article it says "willing to move to this country" is no the same as "top destination".
Dice get it yet again (Score:3)
The United States, which 42 percent of respondents listed as their top potential work destination, followed by the U.K. (37 percent), Canada (35 percent), Germany (33 percent), Switzerland (29 percent), and France (29 percent).
The numbers are the percentage of respondents willing to move to that specific country and not their "top potential work destination". A respondent can be willing to move to more than one country which is why the numbers add up to more than 100%.
Here is a quote from the actual article [bcgperspectives.com];
The United States is the destination with the highest appeal to foreign workers. Of all respondents, 42 percent say the U.S. is one of the places they would consider moving to. (See Exhibit 5.) The U.S. maintains its appeal among workers in many impoverished nations, including Nigeria, Ghana, Nicaragua, and Honduras. Sixty percent or more of respondents from those nations say the U.S. is a place they would move to for work. The UK and Canada get the next highest declarations of interest from survey participants: 37 percent and 35 percent, respectively. The UK, Canada, and the U.S. are all in the top ten in terms of nominal GDP, per capita GDP, or both. They all also benefit from being largely English-speaking at a time when English is the most frequently taught second language.
Taxes (Score:2)
US citizens get screwed when they work overseas because we still have to pay US taxes. We also haven't recovered from the intentional devaluation of the dollar by Bush2 which makes our economic mobility limited. We are a nation of burger flippers enslaved to the 1%.
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Same thing for me. I'm going to be dual U.S. / Irish soon (currently U.S.), so that I can work while my family has an extended stay in Germany. Between the U.S.'s insane politics, and FACTA, I'm so pissed off that I'm planning to drop my U.S. citizenship if Germany works out well.
I have unbecoming fantasies about having an hour alone with myself, a tire iron, and every politician who wants to call me unpatriotic for walking away from their self-serving incompetent anti-Constitutional treason.
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Size matters... (Score:1)
And fyi, don't try for France (Score:2)
But citizens in the United States seemed a bit more reluctant to return the favor—less than 50 percent said they either lived abroad or would consider doing so for work. That's in sharp contrast to countries such as France, where a significant majority of citizens seemed willing to explore jobs in other nations. Of course, those who work in tech already know that globalization is a huge issue.
The elephant in the room is that American citizens aren't allowed overseas, because "We'd be dar to take der jobs!"
If you work for an established multinational, then you can get placed within that framework, or an within an established academic one, but just try an get a job in France as an American citizen -- it's laughable. They don't even pretend.
Speak French? Lived as an exchange student in France? Have ultra high-end tech skills? None of that matters once you try it for real. The door for 'skille
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Opportunity (Score:2)
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You are drinking the kool-aid. Just look at the wealth gap between rich and poor - clearly the dream is just that - a dream.
The wealth gap is mostly irrelevant in the discussion of opportunity. There are plenty of wealthy people that started with nothing. And even more that are comfortable that came from similar circumstances. The question was why do immigrants see the US as desirable place to move to and the answer is, in part, because they see an opportunity to better their lives vs other places. It's not perfect but still is preferential to many others. Don't let your drinking the 'I'm not rich so life is unfair and I'm a po
How many Europeans are willing to leave the EU? (Score:1)
If you live in Europe, chances are you've visited much of the continent. Thus, taking a job in another country isn't that big of a leap. If you live in the US, you've probably visited much of the lower 48. If you move from Boston to LA, it's quite a culture shock but in this survey it isn't considered a move because the United States is a country made up of united states. I think it might be more interesting to see how many Europeans are willing to leave the EU for work.
from the UK (Score:2)
Fuck off already, it's overcrowded here, the property values are already in a stupid bubble, why don't you go somewhere where the cost of living isn't insane and getting worse.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-... [theguardian.com]
"the typical cost per individual employee of renting somewhere to live and leasing office space to $120,000 (£73,800) a year."[in London]
But half of these employees are getting little more than minimum wage, whilst the city leaches pull the average wage up.
Best for global worker==Worst for American worker (Score:2)
What this article is basically saying is that the US is most encouraging of helping foreingers steal the jobs of the huge number of highly qualified US programmers and IT workers who are having difficulty finding work due to it being stolen by third world labor. The third world labor is all about corporate profits and some greedy elites obsession and wall streets out of control greed and lust for profits, to hire cheap, but usually inferior, third world labor. Let third world IT people help build their own
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Take a look at his comments [slashdot.org].. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so consistently moderated -1. Personally I think he's on some kind of long term false-flag crusade to discredit conservatives. But, if you like this sort of thing, there are some real gems in there:
As for Jesus, I hope the Koch brothers will help bring Him to California, forcibly if necessary.
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The only reason diseases like whooping cough are making a comeback in the us is because of socialite antivaxxers. Has nothing to do with foreigners.
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The biggest concentration of pediatric whooping cough is in 90210.
Re:US Capital is top imperialist dog (Score:4, Interesting)
There are plenty of countries that are a mix of social and capitalist policies, and where unbridled capitalism is frowned upon. I *like* living in Kanukistan. It's not perfect, but it works. Those "anti-capitalist" banking regulations gave us the safest banking system in the world. No banks went bankrupt, no government bailouts of the banks during the global financial meltdown, no forced mergers or shotgun marriages.
I guess you could say we're social democrats with a strong capitalist bent.
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Second rule of business management: If you find someone is irreplaceable, FIRE the person who was responsible for that happening, then replace the "irreplaceable" person.
Third rule of business management: Go to rule 1.
Seriously, everyone had darned well better be replaceable, or the fate of your business/project/whatever is at risk. Which is why we need a mandated 32-hour week - everyone is ultimately replaceable, including the so-called "irr