The Cashless Society? It's Already Coming 375
HughPickens.com writes Damon Darlin writes in the NYT that Apple pay is revolutionary but not for the reason you think. It isn't going to replace the credit card but it's going to replace the wallet — the actual physical thing crammed with cards, cash, photos and receipts. According to Darlin, when you are out shopping, it's the wallet, not the credit card, that is the annoyance. It's bulky. It can be forgotten, or lost. "I've learned while traipsing about buying stuff with my ApplePay that I can whittle down wallet items that I need to carry to three": A single credit card, for places that have not embraced, but soon will, some form of smartphone payment; a driver's license; and about $20 in cash. Analysts at Forrester Research estimate that over the next five years, US mobile payments will grow to $142 billion, from $3.7 billion this year. "If I were to make a bet, I'd say that 10 years from now the most popular answer from young shoppers about how they make small payments would be: thumbprint. And you'll get a dull shrug when you ask what a wallet is."
so why is ApplePay required (Score:5, Insightful)
> earned while traipsing about buying stuff with my ApplePay that I can whittle down wallet items that I need to carry to three": A single credit card, for places that have not embraced, but soon will, some form of smartphone payment; a driver's license; and about $20 in cash.
Okay... so why is ApplePay required to get down to those 3 items? Surely he can do with just the 3 and no apple pay....
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Exactly what I thought.
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Apart from of course getting to mind your own business when paying cash as does the seller and of course no credit fraud which is not blamed on the victim, the seller allowing credit but on an innocent party and of course very simple budgeting based upon what you can afford to spend rather than what you can afford to borrow and pay a ton of interest on. There are also all those middle men who inevitably demand more and more of the transaction as they become more essential and more of a monopoly. 1% so beco
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, especially in sentence construction.
Re:so why is ApplePay required (Score:4, Insightful)
Cash as it turns out is much cheaper especially when cartel monopolies kick in, adding fees, charges, interests and just out and out greed to the cost of doing business. Give me cash any day.
The moment we become a "cashless society" is the moment you can kiss Freedom's sweet ass goodbye.
Not only is a cashless society more difficult than most people think, it's about the last thing in the world I'd identify as a worthy goal.
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Okay... so why is ApplePay required to get down to those 3 items? Surely he can do with just the 3 and no apple pay....
Exactly! 2 of the 3 things he is still carrying are exactly the things ApplePay is designed to replace, what items were removed that ApplePay replaced?
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Absolutely. ApplePay adds nothing to the combination of daily-use-debit, identification, and emergency cash for most people.
Despite being a minimalist, my money clip still has way more in it.
Daily use debit card.
Driver's License.
Blink Network card.
Big box membership card.
"Emergency" credit card.
Cash roughly equal to a full buy-in at my poker table of choice.
I'm down to a keyless car fob, a mail key, a house key and a sturdy metal flash drive.
Other than using my big box membership card as my emergency credi
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Depends on where you live. Drivers licenses are the adhoc age verification for anywhere restricted where I live and at 34 I'm still getting carded 50% of the time. The penalties on the venues are so high they don't let minors in.
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Not that often. But if co-workers want to go to the pub after work and I have trained it in that would be seriously annoying.
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The problem is knowing exactly when the 10% is, or having it when a merchant wants to verify identity on his Visa or Mastercard branded debit card -- despite the fact that it's expressly not required. I've got better things to do than earning a lifetime ban from Fry's Electronics after successfully completing a no-ID Visa purchase there...
http://www.mastercard.us/suppo... [mastercard.us]
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In what way?
My MasterCard branded checking card can be run as debit or credit without issue at, well, pretty much anywhere except Peter Luger's Steak House.
Lost!? (Score:5, Insightful)
"It's bulky. It can be forgotten, or lost"
My wallet is on a chain which links to my belt loop on my pants. My wallet will not be lost. However, my phone doesn't have this same protection.
And seriously, how is a phone any less likely to be lost than a wallet? One of the two is out and about of the pocket a hell of a lot more often than the other.
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And be prepared for the guy inline in front of you to be messing around with his phone while he is trying to pay.
"Oh just a second, trying to get a connection."
"Oh wait, need to reboot phone."
etc.
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And be prepared for the guy inline in front of you to be messing around with his phone while he is trying to pay.
"Oh just a second, trying to get a connection." "Oh wait, need to reboot phone." etc.
Although I see your point with many smartphones (and users), you don't need a phone connection to make purchases with Apple Pay.
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Seriously, its the old 'spectacles testicles wallet and watch' only now its more like, 'keys, phone, wallet and X' where X is whatever else you carry. They go back in the same pocket every time, they go back on the same place on the desk when you get home, and you never wonder where they a
Re:Lost!? (Score:5, Funny)
As an old man, I now have to make sure that my glasses are on my face and that I know the location of my wallet, keys, phone and badge at all times.
Walking through a door? WKPB?
You can't imagine the havoc a the keyless ignition on my car has caused me in losing count of my four items.
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Keyless ignition has made it easier. Now I only remove items from my pockets as needed.
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Maybe this should be back in the autism spectrum thread, but I hate stuff in my pockets when I'm sitting. I've never, ever, had wallet in my back pocket, and right now, sitting in front of my on my desk are my phone, my money clip card-holder, the fob for my car and a small collection of pens and papers.
The first thing I do when I get in the car is fill the cup holders with a phone, my wallet, my badge and my fob. :(
Re: Lost!? (Score:2)
Whenever I take out my wallet to pay for something I keep my wallet in my hand until I get back whatever credit card, ID, or 'reward card' I take out - since I started doing that I've *never* lost a card or my wallet, three decades and counting.
BTW, people keep much more in their wallet than just ways to pay for things - ID cards, notes, receipts, etc. - yes, many of those could be turned into notes on a smart phone or handled differently (for example, emailed receipts), but until that happens, a new form o
Re: Lost!? (Score:5, Interesting)
Whenever I take out my wallet to pay for something I keep my wallet in my hand until I get back whatever credit card, ID, or 'reward card' I take out
Me too. Another thing I have learned is to never close a locking door unless the key is in my hand. This has led to some arguments:
"Honey, close the car door."
"Where is the key?"
"In my purse."
"Can I see it?"
"It is in my purse. Why don't you trust me?"
"I am not closing the door until I see the key."
"Okay, okay, just a second. Oh, wait, it is still in the ignition."
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/ coot / I always know where my wallet is (Score:2)
if it ain't in my pocket, it's on top of my videotape machine... a TT-70B the size of a Fiat. /-coot
Re:Lost!? (Score:5, Funny)
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The book of Revelation has the ultimate answer for "It's bulky. It can be forgotten, or lost" and "My wallet is on a chain"
It forced all people, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to have a mark on the right hand or forehead.
Without the mark of the name of the Beast or the number of its name, it was impossible to buy or sell anything.
Solve a riddle: Put your heads together and figure out the meaning of the number of the Beast. It's a human number: six hundred sixty-six. (Revelation 13:15-18 M
Re:Lost!? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds exactly like a phone.
Society will never go cashless because cash is such a useful medium for trade. If I want to buy an air compressor off the trading post, I'm going to rock up with cash because the guy selling it wont have an EFTPOS machine. If I want to buy a coffee, I'll use cash because merchant fees kill small cafes and force prices up at chain stores.
People trying to eliminate cash from their life are cutting off their nose in spite of their face. In the end, they pay more because they have to give money to the middle man (Visa/MasterCard/AMEX) via the merchant (he has to pay them to accept your card). Only a fool rejects a form of payment because of a restrictive and misguided ideology, only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of fools rejects all but one form of payment.
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I never, ever use a card for anything under 20 dollars. I know people who buy cokes from the machine with their debit card and they are the ones that always get their card compromised. Dozens and dozens of small purchases and you look at your bank statement and it's 48 fucking pages. It makes no sense. Sure, to pay for larger purchases I use a card so I don't have to carry 500 dollars around. For a dollar here and a buck and a half there? No.
Less bulky? (Score:5, Insightful)
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With a smartphone you still need just those things.
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Except my smartphone is my only phone. My sister and her husband only have cell phones. If you need a cell phone anyways why pay for another?
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Interac card, money clip with $200 in cash, keys, done.
Not totally (Score:5, Funny)
oh yeah... Slashdot, I remember now
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yeah a lot of us do it bareback with disease free person and other birth control, much more enjoyable than screwing a balloon
More than cash and cc (Score:5, Insightful)
- drivers license
- gym card
- business card
- all those proximity reader entry cards for everything from zipcar to work
- work ID card
- subway / bus card
- discount / membership cards
Not to mention that my wallet never runs out of power or is otherwise rendered inoperable. Nor is my wallet susceptible to malware. As a bonus I can keep a stash of backup meds in my wallet in a little plastic container. It has a pleasant all-natural leather makeup that wears beautifully with time. And frankly it's a lot more dignified to have your amex clatter onto the bill at a fancy restaurant than it is to pull out your phone and beep-boop-beep up some app. As a side bonus at least some part of my life isn't under the NSA's review when I use cash.
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A few others:
1: A place for a backup house or car key.
2: A place for cash.
3: My Car2Go card.
4: Other ID cards.
If stopped by the local PD, I don't know any that will accept a photo of a driver's license from a phone.
I'm not convinced that Apple Pay, or some other system like this is any better than the European Chip And PIN system. With a debit card, I swipe it, enter my PIN, and the transaction is done in seconds flat. I don't have to fumble for my phone, wave it by something, confirm, hope I did it r
Re:More than cash and cc (Score:5, Insightful)
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So true. I check in at home, then print a boarding pass at the airport because it's so much quicker and more convenient when going through the gate.
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If stopped by the local PD, I don't know any that will accept a photo of a driver's license from a phone.
If you're driving, there's little substitute for a driver's license. My state will take photos/scans/apps for Insurance.
If you're not driving, you're about 50-50 on being compelled by law to identify yourself to police, and in most cases, no presentation of state identification is necessary, only providing your legal name is required. YMMV, IANAL, TINLA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]
In my state, police can ask, and I'm required to provide my legal name. Nothing more.
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id is also good to have for airport TSA, getting carded for alcohol (some places have a policy to card everybody regardless) and other misc things.
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a benefit of apple pay is that things are charged to your credit card, not your debit card. when it goes to your debit card the money exits your account immediately, whereas on a credit card you haven't paid yet. This puts you in a much stronger position to dispute any charges.
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My wallet has:
a proof-of-age card (government photo ID card like a drivers license but doesn't let you drive), useful for when I need to show ID for some reason
a Go Card (payment smart card for the local bus and train system)
Loyalty cards for stores
Library card
VISA Debit/EFTPOS/ATM card
Cash
Australian Government Medicare card (for the public health system)
Private health insurance card
None of these are likely to be replaced by a smartphone anytime soon (even if I could use my phone to pay for stuff with the V
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Let's see.. things that won't be digitized anytime soon:
- gym card
Thumbprint, perhaps?
- subway / bus card
Since September you can pay for transport in London with a contactless credit or debit card. (There's no need to pre-register or anything, but foreigners should check their bank won't charge an unreasonable fee on a £1.45 transaction). They claimed to be first to set this up, including some new special kinds of keep-people-moving-and-deal-with-the-fraud-later transaction, so I expect it will catch on elsewhere in the next year or two.
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Maybe in a decade or so, but for the near future, no. Likewise the four other ID cards I have to carry - two of them US government, one state government and one local government. The chance of them getting their act together to allow some sort of electronic entry is near zero. I would be nice, I will grant you that, but it's unlikely to happen.
Or if it does, then one of the US government departments will require a Google solution, the other Apple and Alaska will roll it's own totally weird system using X
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Let's see.. things that won't be digitized anytime soon: - gym card
Thumbprint, perhaps?
I've heard of this before... Ah ha! It was The Daily WTF [thedailywtf.com]
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Why would I want to replace a fairly robust piece of plastic with a finky piece of hardware/software. And why would I want my rates to go up to afford the 5-figure (for a good one) piece of hardware?
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in my wallet:
* DL
* personal credit card
* work credit card (so track work purchases)
* debit card (to get cash when needed, eg for places where the primary form of payment is $1 bills)
* health insurance card (for when the ambulance scrapes me up off the road)
* AAA card (better to have this in my wallet than in my car, because I can use it for any car that I am in).
* transit RFID card
* a couple business cards for random people that I meet
* a place to put receipts so I can expense them later
* a bit of cash
Cash (Score:5, Insightful)
I choose to use cash because most of my transactions are one where I do not wish to enter into a relationship with the other party.
Since I don't know how they will use my information, where there will upload it, what third party services they use and since nearly all do not have these answers when I ask, the only way for me to OPT OUT is cash.
Wallet required (Score:4, Interesting)
My job, and almost all medical jobs require me to carry my physical certifications on my person. The state and other regulatory agencies can demand my cards at any time for inspection. It's about ten small cards that will likely never leave my wallet, no matter what comes down the line.
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You're forgetting that this isn't a technical issue. It's a political one. Yeah, there are going to be electronic ID cards - probably a half dozen non interoperable ones. You can spend a couple of minutes fiddling with this app or another -- which will likely require four different versions of both major mobile phone operating systems. Or you can just whip out the little plastic card and be done with it.
You people don't get it (Score:4, Insightful)
At least I OWN this wallet!
I don't own this phone (and yes, I did pay for it and don't have a contract, but it can be switched off and the NSA can tap it willy nilly). You people want an e-wallet that can be shut off like your phone? Tapped like your phone?
What this is leading to is anybody politically undesirable will be shut out of the economy at the push of a button.
Fuck you technophiles
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The tracing part is a fair point, but if I was worried about the government "shutting me out of the economy" I wouldn't worry about my wallet I'd worry about my bank accounts and credit cards where the other 99% of my cash is. My small cash reserve is just there to smooth over an outage or losing my card, I wouldn't last a month. Particularly not if the property registry and car registry claims my apartment and car aren't mine. Anywhere I work here in Norway is legally required to deduct taxes which would t
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There's no such thing. If via no other mechanism, contributing to the use of something that the GP objects to strengthens its entrenchment via network effects, and may prevent a more agreeable (to him) solution from coming into existence.
Now, you may not care about that, but you cannot deny it exists.
And...? (Score:5, Insightful)
According to Darlin, when you are out shopping, it's the wallet, not the credit card, that is the annoyance. It's bulky. It can be forgotten, or lost.
A cell phone is bulky and can be forgotten or lost. In addition, my wallet isn't big or bulky and contains my ID - which I'm required to carry, at least to drive, and won't be electronic for quite some time, if ever.
"If I were to make a bet, I'd say that 10 years from now the most popular answer from young shoppers about how they make small payments would be: thumbprint. And you'll get a dull shrug when you ask what a wallet is.
Merchants can have my thumbprint when they pry it from my cold dead hand. P.S. Cash and CC work even when my cell phone has no bars or is dead - if I carried a cell phone, which I don't.
Besides, aren't things like Apple Pay simply a credit-card proxy with, you know, Apple (or whoever) watching/tracking in between?
Cash (Score:5, Interesting)
You won't be playing badminton at the clubs without cash.
Most people who pay me don't have bank accounts, it's either cash or money orders.
Gas for the car? Cheaper via cash. This becomes all the larger when gas prices are higher.
Car repairs? You'd be a fool to pay electronically, when the discount for cash gives you $20 back for small services, and multiples of that for large.
Drinks at the bar? Cash means faster service, more value to your tips, less problems/complaints on tabs.
Meanwhile, every other month I know folks who have dropped phones in the toilet, lost, broken, had their phone stolen, or the person paying for their phone service doesn't, so it gets shut off. Only once in my dozen years of doing my job has a client lost her purse.
I laugh every time these articles get posted here, as there are entire segments of society for whom this would not function.
Well... (Score:2)
What if I don't want Apple in my finances? (Score:2)
There will always be legal currency issued by your country, it will never be done away with completely, and I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to have every single financial transaction I make, no matter how small, tracked by someone.
Clearly, we haven't had enough... (Score:2)
... bitcoin articles on Slashdot.
Have we learned nothing about the inherent risks of centralized banking? Apple pay.... Gah!!
Solution Searching For a Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
And back in AU.... min purchase $10 (Score:2)
We still have large amounts of grocery stores that still have min purchase $10 EFT due to high transaction charges.
I smell BS lies there from the shop owner being super stingy.
Re:And back in AU.... min purchase $10 (Score:5, Informative)
We still have large amounts of grocery stores that still have min purchase $10 EFT due to high transaction charges.
I smell BS lies there from the shop owner being super stingy.
You'd likely be smelling your own statement then.
Merchant fees are killers for small businesses. Even at a minimum $10 per transaction a business is likely losing money on every EFTPOS purchase made.
I used to run a small business, it was not unusual for my EFTPOS costs would dwarf my staff costs. I used to sell computer hardware, so the MSF (Merchant Service Fees) were less of the transaction total costs compared to a cafe but they still hurt. Customers who paid cash or debit were brilliant (and got discounts because of it). MSF's have become a lot better since I was running my business, but they're still big enough to kill a small business.
Heres what a merchant pays:
- Monthly fees (services).
- Monthly fees (terminal).
- Per transaction fees (for debit, usually between $0.20 and $0.50).
- Per transaction fees (for credit, 1-6% depending on bank and card).
- Annual fees (yep, they charge monthly and annual fees).
So ignoring the monthly and annual fees, if you bought a $4 coffee on your credit card, $0.50 at least disappears to the bank, that's pretty much all the profit gone from the sale (and I bet you wonder why things cost so much in Australia).
People who try to force small businesses to accept cards without allowing a surcharge or minimum purchase are killing small businesses in Australia. However one of my favourite cafe's has a solution to people like you. The menu price for a coffee is $4.50 but the "secret" cash price is $4.00, it's a win-win for me and the business.
My pedantic comment (Score:4, Funny)
A single credit card, for places that have not embraced, but soon will
So do you have a separate card for places that have not embraced and never will?
... We ended up going to a nearby ATM so I could by the comics.
Here is a (funny) anecdote, a couple years ago I went to a small comic book store with my son. I hardly ever have cash on hand. When we went to checkout I asked the guy if he took credit cards, and he puffed out "not until they outlaw cash!".
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Wallet more durable (Score:3)
I can drop my wallet onto a hard surface, from even higher than 1 metre, and it won't break. Neither will the cash inside it, ditto credit cards.
If "it's bulky, can be forgotten or lost" renders a wallet+contents unusable, then so does "I dropped my phone and it broke".
Drop test (Score:4, Insightful)
Take your wallet, with whatever it is, and throw it down the stairs. Pick a nice long flight of stairs.
Now, take your smart phone with whatever protective cover you typically use and toss the phone down the same flight of stairs.
I'm guessing the wallet is a bit dirty, maybe a tad scuffed up, but the cash inside is still good and worst case a credit card is cracked, but I would bet that all the numbers on it are still perfectly legible.
I wouldn't make the same bet for the phone.
Bottom line: Wallets will always do better in a "drop test" than a smart phone.
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This is how I chose my wife. She's a survivor, God love her.
We're buying a dog next week. What are the heartiest, most durable breeds?
Cash no longer talks I've found (Score:3)
Many times I've been refused a purchase as a credit/debit/card or check was required. Hard for me to beleive but I've been there.
I find a wallet makes my butt hurt so I carry just three cards I find of importance my debit card, drivers license, and library card - nothing else is ever required.
My debit card pays for everything, everybody is set up to accept it. Cash I give to the kids :)
As for pictures I always have my cell phone which I would never use for monetary transactions, Just four days ago (Black Friday) I had thought I had lost my cell phone even went back to look for it, was in my freaking back pocket pocket, found when it made one of it's noises; boy was I ever glad - but shows how easy it would be to lose ones ability to purchase or pay for anything if dependent upon a cell phone or such.
ISIS Dinar (Score:4, Funny)
Re:You can pry my wallet from my... (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been 98% cashless since the early 90s and never have more than a few dollars on me at any given time.. I put everything on a credit card and write one check a month to pay for everything. And now I don't even have to write a check, I just go online and make a payment straight out of my bank account to the credit card company. And, because I pay everything off every month it costs me nothing, and, since I'm using a 'cash back' credit card, I get a check for $50 every few months. It's not much but it's free money that I didn't have before. I'm sure the credit card company hates people like me, but fuck'em.
Re:You can pry my wallet from my... (Score:5, Insightful)
The credit card company loves people like you who evangelize the idea of using your credit card for everything and then paying it off immediately and then earning cashback on it.
Why? Because most of the people you reach with your message will fail to do so correctly, and ultimately will owe the credit card company fees. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It's just too tempting for most people to say, "Well, this ONE month, I'll pay it late and then get that JetSki I've had my eyes on."
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The credit card company loves people like you who evangelize the idea of using your credit card for everything and then paying it off immediately and then earning cashback on it.
Why? Because most of the people you reach with your message will fail to do so correctly, and ultimately will owe the credit card company fees. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It's just too tempting for most people to say, "Well, this ONE month, I'll pay it late and then get that JetSki I've had my eyes on."
There is no "message" and I rarely mention this to anyone. Because I know that most people are too stupid to do it properly.
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"The credit card company loves people like you"
But not for the reasons you think.
They love them because credit card money is "magic" money.
Not that fiduciary money is any more real in a strict sense, but while fiduciary money can only be created by gubernamental bodies, credit card money can be created by any bank.
Using your credit card reduces the declared cash reserve needs for banks as much as 10 to 1.
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Using your credit card reduces the declared cash reserve needs for banks as much as 10 to 1.
Banks don't care at all about that. The reserve requirement for savings accounts and CDs is 0 anyhow - only checking accounts (among consumer accounts) currently have any reserve requirements, and that's quite low.
And despite all that, bank have voluntarily deposited about $2 Trillion with the Fed, because the Fed is paying better interest on that money than T-Bills pay. Banks just aren't seeking to reduce their reserves right now, though that will change as the economy expands, I expect.
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Because most of the people you reach with your message will fail to do so correctly, and ultimately will owe the credit card company fees.
1. Go to your bank's website
2. Click on bill pay
3. Type in the billing info for your credit card
4. Click "enable e-bills"
5. Click "enable e-bill initiated autopay"
6. Click "pay in full"
7. Never worry about it again.
8. Enjoy your cash back and/or frequent flyer miles.
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Which is great until sometime between steps 6 and 7 the customer overspends on their credit card.
It's a great idea if you run a tight budget and have the discipline to do it. Most people would be better off financially just packing a lunch a couple extra times a month instead of eating out.
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Which is great until sometime between steps 6 and 7 the customer overspends on their credit card.
It's a great idea if you run a tight budget and have the discipline to do it.
I actually know multiple people now whose budgets have been saved by using credit cards. Yes, you heard me right.
Why? Because of financial tracking software. A credit card charge gets registered -- anywhere from instantly to a day later or so -- and it immediately shows an impact on your "running balance" of available money in your accounts.
Cash? When you spend that stuff, you need to keep track of it yourself. Once you withdraw cash from an account, it goes into a "black hole" in terms of financia
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The credit card company loves people like you who evangelize the idea of using your credit card for everything and then paying it off immediately and then earning cashback on it.
Why?
The main reason they like people who pay off their cc bill every month is cash flow. For every person who makes the easy minimim paymen, you do nees some folks that pay their bills.
Because most of the people you reach with your message will fail to do so correctly, and ultimately will owe the credit card company fees.
Most people for some weird reason do not understand basic monetary math. Pity that. But as long as they make those easy minimum payments hey- its all good. I guess. In the end, they have less, because ten years later, they re still paying everything off. And that interest just sucks their ability to get more stuff
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
It's just too tempting for most people to say, "Well, this ONE month, I'll pay it late and then get that JetSki I've had my eyes on."
But don't hoist
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Hmm they love the transaction fees they get from retailers, that in turn make you spend more money on the item you bought. I do the same thing as OP, FWIW, but the world needs to find a way to remove CC companies from the loop, it's not working for anyone.
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Why? Because most of the people you reach with your message will fail to do so correctly, and ultimately will owe the credit card company fees.
Not really.
My wife works for a credit card issuer. For the sake of this discussion, we can divide credit card customers into two buckets: "revolvers" (those who revolve a balance each month) and "transactors" (those who use their cards only for their personal convenience when doing retail transactions). Issuers make the bulk of their profits by borrowing money at a low interest rate and lending it out to revolvers at a higher interest rate. They make a lot from fees too, but they try to avoid that now becau
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Hey mythosaz... I think you will find that trying to save every single one of the many billions of people in the world from all the nasty carrots which get wiggled in front of their faces by big companies every day is a losing proposition.
I'm reminded of the Cecil Adams / Straight Dope tagline: "Fighting ignorance since 1973 -- It's taking longer than we thought."
I've seen lots of people successfully churn every last purchase, every last reimbursable business expense, every last opportunity to pick up the check at a shared meal when their friends were paying cash and be very, very, successful.
I've also seen people buy the JetSki, figuratively.
I have no illusions of saving the world. I'm just sharing my thoughts on a message board built for
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I'm just sharing my thoughts on a message board built for that very purpose after someone else brought up the topic.
Perhaps, but your idea that financially responsible people are "evangelizing" about it is wrong.
People get pissed off at me bacause of the interest rates I get. But if you want a bad credit rating, and the increased difficulties in getting loans and higher rates, and you think I'm evangalizing about finanacial responsibility?
Can I get an AMEN?
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I've been 98% cashless since the early 90s and never have more than a few dollars on me at any given time
If you live somewhere where a natural disaster is a possibility (earthquake / hurricane / tornado) it's prudent to have a stash of small denomination cash that you have easy access to (100 five-dollar bills, for example). Generally when disaster strikes things revert to a cash (or barter) economy.
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Where I live - number of x in last 100 years:
Hurricanes: 0
Earthquakes: 0
Snowstorms: 0
Tornado: I think there's been 2-4 very minor ones with local damage only
Revolutions: 0
Military invasions: 0
Floods: 2 (again minor and localized)
Widespread power outage > 12h: 2 in last 30 yrs
I guess I can chuck the wallet!
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That last 2% is what they are looking for.
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I'm sure the credit card company hates people like me, but fuck'em.
When they can charge merchants a 3% fee because you won't consider using cash, you can be sure your CC company fuckin' loves you.
(Where did you think that "free" money was coming from? Did you think merchants just eat that cost?)
(You didn't actually think your CC company was losing money on you, did you? Really!?)
Hey, guess what, I pay exactly the same price whether I use cash or credit card. The number of businesses that do not accept credit cards is extremely small and getting smaller every day. Yes, merchants *DO* eat the 3% CC fee. They have to. They have no choice thanks to good old fashioned competition. If you don't take credit cards you WILL lose business to competitors who do.
Back some time ago a bunch of merchants won a lawsuit challenging Visa/Mastercard rules, and as a result merchants are now allow
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Hey, guess what, plenty of businesses in my neighborhood, gas stations especially, offer a discount for cash. Even when you couldn't charge more for credit, you could give a discount for cash. ...because technicalities.
Businesses on a budget in this town have charged credit and debit surcharges since the second they could - most notoriously Dell Tacos charged a ~$0.50 surcharge on swipes for a long, long time.
You might also find that, outside of big chains, lots of vendors will give you a couple of percent
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(Where did you think that "free" money was coming from? Did you think merchants just eat that cost?)
How are online merchants offering free shipping without charging higher prices? UPS and FedEx don't deliver packages for free. The merchant eats the cost to get more business. Same with credit cards.
.(You didn't actually think your CC company was losing money on you, did you? Really!?)
.They lose money on me but make it back 1000 times over on all the dumbasses who charge more than they can afford to pay back.
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They don't lose money on you.
They got paid 102.5% for everything you bought after the merchant's transactions fees were added.
Giving you a portion of that 2.5% back still leaves them in the black.
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Where did you think that "free" money was coming from? Did you think merchants just eat that cost?
The merchants build the cost into the prices they charge. So what? There is nothing that I, as an individual, can do about it. So I might as well take advantage of the benefits of using a CC.
But cash also has costs for businesses, also built into prices, such as robberies and employee theft, that are much less of a problem with CC transactions.
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When they can charge merchants a 3% fee because you won't consider using cash, you can be sure your CC company fuckin' loves you.
(Where did you think that "free" money was coming from? Did you think merchants just eat that cost?)
(You didn't actually think your CC company was losing money on you, did you? Really!?)
So what places give you a 3 percent discount every time you pay in cash?
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When they decided to make it exclusive to apple devices while ignoring the much bigger android market.
The Android marketplace already had their shot...and only grazed the target. When Apple Pay becomes bigger, it will likely lift Android purchases as well. It's the retailers grouping together with alternatives like Current-C that will hamper all other payment methods.
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Apple Pay is EMV-compatible and requires no work for the merchant to support over supporting regular Visa/Mastercard NFC cards.
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It's your life dude, but it sounds like a whole lot of documents that you could leave in the glove compartment of your car. And in much of the world, where people don't drive (often or at all) and have free medical care, progress can go on first.
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"If I am in a car accident, I do not want the emergency responders wondering what my blood type is"
They test it on the spot, anyway.
"or if I can pay"
More civilized countries have socialized health care systems so they don't need to ask.
"This is a solution looking for a problem."
This is 100% true. Specially once you figure the unestated: we won't carry wallets... because all of us will own an iDevice, no competitors allowed.
Re:Not in Spain (Score:4, Insightful)
"This said, going cashless, if this happens, will probably be one of the strongest blows to the back-market economy. Suppressing large US banknotes would also make drug and weapons traficking a bit harder."
So what? Paper money has another very desirable property that electronic money lacks of: anonymity.
It's nobody business where and how I expend my money. Full stop.
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My lost $20 bills never seem to find their way back to me. OTOH, I've never paid a dime for any erroneous charge.