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Transportation United Kingdom

Heathrow Plane In Near Miss With Drone 325

An anonymous reader writes with news about a near miss between a drone and a plane near Heathrow. "An unidentified drone came close to hitting a plane as it landed at Heathrow, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has confirmed. An Airbus A320 pilot reported seeing a helicopter-style drone as the jet was 700 feet off the ground on its approach to the runway at 1416 GMT on 22 July. The CAA has not identified the airline or how close the drone came to the plane, which can carry 180 people. It gave the incident an 'A' rating, meaning a 'serious risk of collision'. This is the highest incident rating the CAA can give. Investigators were unable to identify the drone, which did not appear on air traffic control radar and disappeared after the encounter."
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Heathrow Plane In Near Miss With Drone

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  • It won't be long (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    until these morons flying drones over and around airfields cause death, probably some kind of small light training vehicle with an inexperience "pilot".

    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      Let's be more realistic here. People shouldn't be stupid and fly drones at the airport, sure. But they are vastly more likely to cause property damage than death if a collision actually happens.

      The last thing we need is 'officials' wetting their pants over yet another 'dire threat' and overreacting again.

      The drone's radio control has a limited range and well known frequency range. It should be possible to track the idiots down, fine them, and remind them that if they actually have a collision the damages wi

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2014 @05:13AM (#48545901)

    So, being that it is called "An unidentified drone", do we know that it was a drone and not a bird or something else?

    How about we just call it for an Unidentified Flying Object until we figured out what it was?

  • Near miss? (Score:5, Informative)

    by maestroX ( 1061960 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @05:37AM (#48545953)

    When two planes almost collide, they call it a near miss. It's a near hit. A collision is a near miss.

    George Carlin

  • No bigger than ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jamesl ( 106902 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @05:43AM (#48545969)

    ... a bird. And airplanes hit birds on approach almost every day. Certainly every week.

    N417SW SKYWEST AIRLINES FLIGHT SKW2608 BOMBARDIER CL600 AIRCRAFT ON FINAL, STRUCK BIRDS, LANDED WITHOUT INCIDENT, DAMAGE TO AIRCRAFT IS MINOR, SACRAMENTO, CA
    http://www.asias.faa.gov/pls/a... [faa.gov]

    UAVs (sometimes called "drones") shouldn't be operating around airports but the likelihood of one downing a transport category aircraft is just about zero.

    • by Viol8 ( 599362 )

      Clearlty you see no distinction between a soft squishy bird and solid lump of metal, plastic and potentially explosive lithium batteries hitting a fan blade at 200mph.

      Even if 1 engine out is unlikely to bring a plane down I doubt an airline really wants to pay millions for a new engine (not to mention the service disruption of the airliner being taken out of service) just because some juvenile asshat gets his kicks playing with his toy near a flight path.

      • by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @07:08AM (#48546179) Journal

        " A solid lump of flesh and bone or a solid lump of styrofoam, plastic, and some small bits of metal." FTFY

        I would worry more about the "potentially explosive" lithium batteries, but the actual energy involved is likely less than the rated capacity of 57Wh (for a DJI Phantom, a fairly large consumer model), or 205kJ of energy. If you consider they fire multiple chickens (at 3-4kg) at a combined vector of aircraft speed and compressor blade speed of 275m/s, the impact energy is north of 300(+/-)kJ. If you're concerned about high temperatures, remember that this is a jet engine made of high temperature steel and ceramics. Don't forget that they also fire 120+g balls of ice into the engines at hundreds of m/s, so it's not all "soft stuff" they test against these engines.

        That's not to say that a large drone might not do damage to an engine, but if you combine the chance of an idiot drone pilot *and* the chance of getting ingested into an engine *and* the chance of actually having an impact which severely damages the engine you're talking very very remote possibilities. You may as well start patrolling the highways to make sure nobody flies above them for fear of the drone losing power and diving into traffic. Current laws cover the conditions well enough for general safety (glide slope and general hobby a/c altitude limits).

      • ... just because some juvenile asshat gets his kicks playing with his toy near a flight path.

        Like this dickhead [youtube.com] - literally over the road from a London Heathrow [google.co.uk] runway.

        My office is on an old Halifax (WW2 bomber) airfield and we get RAF Pumas and Chinooks doing low (shakes the building low) level training over it. So when I built my quadcopter and was testing/tuning it, I double checked whether we are in a MATZ [wikipedia.org] - it ends on pretty much over our office (though the chart is a small scale, so it' difficult to be precise), so I can fly up to a thousand feet (if I was stupid enough).

        The problem is that

    • by dbIII ( 701233 )
      So 200 deaths since 1988 is no big deal?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_strike#Incidents
    • by Richard Kirk ( 535523 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @06:36AM (#48546077)

      Bird strikes can be dangerous if one goes into the engine. This rarely downs an aircraft unless you have a two-engined aircraft and both engines get hit at the same time. Remember the plane that landed in the Hudson after a double bird strike? That was an Airbus A320.

      Whether this is a significant risk depends on what the drone flyer is trying to do. If they are trying to get close-up pictures of aircraft then they are probably no bigger risk than birds. If they are aiming for the engines because they want to take down an aircraft, then there is a significant risk, particularly of the drone is carrying some load designed to do damage. Why would someone do this? I dunno. Why do people use laser pointers to try and blind pilots? Maybe not terrorism: some people are just dicks.

      What do we do? Well, if they are radio-controlled then we can pinpoint the controller by radio. It would be a nice problem to design a set of drones that can triangulate the source of a radio signal, home in on it, and track what they find.

    • I'll give you another anectdote [reuters.com]. And you can do this all day. It's fun!

      How about "UAVs (sometimes called "drones") shouldn't be operating around airports but the likelihood of one downing a transport category aircraft is low, certainly not zero and something responsible people are concerned about".

    • ... a bird. And airplanes hit birds on approach almost every day. Certainly every week.

      N417SW SKYWEST AIRLINES FLIGHT SKW2608 BOMBARDIER CL600 AIRCRAFT ON FINAL, STRUCK BIRDS, LANDED WITHOUT INCIDENT, DAMAGE TO AIRCRAFT IS MINOR, SACRAMENTO, CA
      http://www.asias.faa.gov/pls/a... [faa.gov]

      UAVs (sometimes called "drones") shouldn't be operating around airports but the likelihood of one downing a transport category aircraft is just about zero.

      Might depend on if it's got a couple of sticks of dynamite (or whatever) stuck to it when it gets sucked into an engine.

  • by StripedCow ( 776465 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @05:47AM (#48545983)

    Thank goodness my Amazon drone-delivered goods were not destroyed by this incident.

  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @06:36AM (#48546075)

    Unless said drone carries some hardened steel components, this is more like a collision with a bird. Even airplane engines (the most vulnerable part) are designed to withstand that. A direct collision will probably result in some light paint scratches on the airplane. Unlike the case of an airplane collision, the destruction of the drone is not an issue here.

    What is going on here is that some bureaucrats inflate the risk perception of something that is basically a non-issue to look really, really dangerous. This is likely done for purely political reasons, to inflate their perceived importance.

    • For one, commercial quad-copters are a lot larger than the average bird unless you are talking about a giant eagle.

      Second, if the drone is powered by a LiON battery pack and gets sucked into the engine, when the drone is struck by the impeller it COULD rupture the battery pack in a way that causes a small explosion. I don't know if this would be enough to damage the engine but I certainly would not dismiss it.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @06:55AM (#48546141)

        And you think anybody would be flying a commercial quad-copter near a runway approach? That is BS. Nobody is going to risk not only a very expensive piece of equipment but also a huge fine and possible loss of permission to operate drones. This clearly was something far lighter and far less expensive.

        Also, Li-Ion can _not_ explode. It burns, very hotly, but it burns _slow_. There is no "could" here. Really, there is not. Goose feathers are a far better explosive than Li-Ion batteries. They _can_ explode if pulverized finely enough and mixed just right. Does that happen? No. It does not. Would it be a problem? No. Not enough energy in there to do actual damage. If you want a drone to blow up an airplane engine, you better add some pretty damn powerful explosive.

         

      • What that engine is designed to do is already between a lithium fire and an explosion. Don't worry about the lithium.
        Having said that, anyone operating a drone on an airport (without authorisation from the tower) is an idiot and should, at the least, lose their drone.
        If it becomes a real problem I vote for a hunter that just shoots them down before they get anywhere dangerous.

        As for bird strikes: Those do bring down the occasional aircraft. We can't do much about them. However, there is no need to actively

    • Birds contain batteries now?
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

      "Withstand" is a relative term... The engine is designed not to explode in a ball of fire and take the aircraft with it if hit by a bird, but that doesn't mean it will continue working properly. At the very least the aircraft will have to loop round and land again for inspection.

  • and it's because of people like this that we probably won't be able to have cool toys like drones
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 08, 2014 @07:50AM (#48546353)

    I'm fed up with hearing the old trope that engines are tested by firing geese into them. Whilst this is true, the test is to ensure that the engine does not completely disintegrate peppering the cabin with shrapnel. The engine is most certainly not unscathed and if not written off completely would require extensive and costly refurbishment.

    A drone may not be as heavy as a goose but it would very likely cause damage to the turbine blades resulting in reduced power and vibration and necessitating expensive repairs. Reduced power would also pose a danger.

    Consequently, it goes without saying that airports do everything possible to prevent bird strikes and will presumably do the same for drones.

    It's unfortunate that idiots like this (and the idiots that shine lasers into cockpits) will spoil it for us all. Inevitably, good toys will eventually be banned.

    • In the case that this becomes a real problem I hope that the airports are going to employ hunters that shoot the drones down. The cost would be limited, for the airport. The cost for the idiot who flew his drone there would be quite big.

  • ...idiots like this will make sure that it's only a question of time before drones are forbidden/regulated.

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