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The Almighty Buck United States IT Technology

IRS Warns of Downtime Risk As Congress Makes Cuts 253

dcblogs writes Successive budget cuts by Congress are forcing the Internal Revenue Service to delay system modernization that would improve its ability to prevent fraud. In telling of the problems ahead, IRS Commissioner John Koskinen almost sounded desperate in a recent memo to employees. The IRS is heavily dependent on technology, and the impact of the budget reduction to IT this year was put at $200 million. It will mean delays in replacing "aging IT systems" and "increasing the risk of downtime," Koskinen said. A new system to protect against ID theft will be delayed, and other IT cost-efficiency efforts curbed.The budget cuts have been so deep IRS employees are being warned of a possible shutdown for two days before this fiscal year ends in October. It would be a forced furlough for agency workers. The IRS employed 84,189 last year, down from 86,400 in 2013. When attrition is considered, the IRS says it lost between 16,000 and 17,000 employees since 2010. The agency has also been hit with a hiring freeze, and appears to be hiring very few people in IT compared to other agencies.
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IRS Warns of Downtime Risk As Congress Makes Cuts

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  • One has to wonder (Score:3, Informative)

    by halivar ( 535827 ) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `reglefb'> on Thursday January 22, 2015 @09:06AM (#48874149)

    If these upgrades are so critical, why did they wait until THIS year, and especially during tax season, to do them? Sounds like PR, like the public park "closings" where they actually increased staff to keep people out.

    • appears to be hiring very few people in IT compared to other agencies.

      So that's the benchmark?

    • by ArsonSmith ( 13997 ) on Thursday January 22, 2015 @09:22AM (#48874247) Journal

      seems like it's time to fire IRS management and bring in/promote some fresh minds that can work under the reduced budgets.

      • by Mr D from 63 ( 3395377 ) on Thursday January 22, 2015 @09:25AM (#48874267)
        During the past several economically sluggish years, all across the nation, companies have figured out how to do more with less. The IRS needs that kind of leadership.
        • Right because those companies are tasked with collecting taxes and performing audits of all tax paying Americans *eye roll*
          • by Dareth ( 47614 ) on Thursday January 22, 2015 @10:17AM (#48874619)

            In other countries, the government collects payroll information and prepares a tax statement for each citizen. People review the tax bill and pay if they owe money. Or they amend any information on income and pay the recalculated payment.

            In the US, citizens are made to calculate their tax responsibility, or hire someone to do it. The government then tells them if they have their calculation correct with threat of penalty if done incorrectly.

          • So, what are the unique characteristics of the task of collecting taxes and performing audits that prevent efficiency improvements? Are you saying that no companies don't perform tasks with similar complexities? Back up your huff with some stuff.

            *jelly roll*
            • A private corporation is free to decrease or increase output in order to find the new optimization point as conditions change, or to pursue new lines of business. The IRS must continue to collect all taxes that Congress requires by law and is prohibited from creating new taxes.

              • I said "do more with less", not decrease output. You still have not addressed anything regarding efficiency improvements, rather you seem to assume that the IRS is operating at maximum efficiency already and there is nothing they can do to improve.
        • Does the amount of work that the IRS is legally required to do reduce when the economy slows?

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by jbmartin6 ( 1232050 )
      This was my first thought too, but it is hard to say for sure. While agencies like this are rife with waste and inefficiency, there must be a point where budget cuts would have an impact on service even if all waste and inefficiency were eliminated. Of course the same can be said of any organization to one degree or another.

      My second thought was, if their budget is cut all they have to do is reduce the scope of their mission. It isn't like their victims are going to complain about not being audited. And r
      • My second thought was, if their budget is cut all they have to do is reduce the scope of their mission.

        They can't. The scope of their mission is defined by Congress. They are tasked with carrying out what Congress says. They can't unilaterally say, "We're not going to do what we're told to do."

        That said, if they wanted to reduce their mission scope they could always ignore trying to collect money from people who didn't hand over their money to private companies since this has nothing to do with
        • They can't. The scope of their mission is defined by Congress. They are tasked with carrying out what Congress says. They can't unilaterally say, "We're not going to do what we're told to do."

          Interesting theory you have there. So, does that mean that the President can't just ignore Congress and do what he likes about, say, Cuba? There ARE laws in place, after all....

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by dywolf ( 2673597 )

      you poor stupid idiot.

      you have a non argument and no clue.
      you can raise these specious "questions" but they reveal more about your own ignorance than anything of value releated to the IRS.

      maybe the upgrades have been scheduled for months, predicated on projected funding, not an uncommon practice. further, no matter when the upgrades are scheduled for someone can raise the "why now?" question and have it seem important (when its really not). Its not like they only work 3 months out of the year.

      and they have

      • You didn't answer why they decided to wait until tax season?

        • Maybe because it's budget season [wikipedia.org]?

          The current federal budget law (31 U.S.C. 1105(a)) requires that the President submit the budget between the first Monday in January and the first Monday in February

  • Let's hope (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ) on Thursday January 22, 2015 @09:08AM (#48874157)

    That this forces simplification of the tax code.

    • Like the removal of thousands of corporate tax giveaways? Not likely.

    • Re:Let's hope (Score:5, Insightful)

      by OzPeter ( 195038 ) on Thursday January 22, 2015 @09:30AM (#48874295)

      That this forces simplification of the tax code.

      Since when does the IRS decide what the Federal Tax laws are?

      • That this forces simplification of the tax code.

        Since when does the IRS decide what the Federal Tax laws are?

        That is easily the most insightful comment in this discussion so far.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by dfenstrate ( 202098 )

        That this forces simplification of the tax code.

        Since when does the IRS decide what the Federal Tax laws are?

        Since Obama became president. See the affordable care act subsidies.

        • by OzPeter ( 195038 )

          Since Obama became president. See the affordable care act subsidies.

          So you're saying that the IRS unilaterally went out and made changes to the tax law without direction from POTUS or Congress?

          • So you're saying that the IRS unilaterally went out and made changes to the tax law without direction from POTUS or Congress?

            EVERY government agency does this. Neither Congress nor POTUS would ever get anything done if they had to approve every action of every government agency. Congress and POTUS and the judiciary set the framework but the agencies generally see to the fine details and have significant leeway in deciding how to best carry out those regulations.

            Here's how it works. Legislatures write statutes which usually outline what is to be done but often leaves the finer details up to the agencies tasked with carrying out

      • EXACTLY. As long as the tax code is ridiculously complicated, we're going to need ridiculously complicated bureaucracy and IT systems to manage and enforce that complexity. Let's see how well our new GOP overlords in Congress manage to legislate an actual reduction in tax code complexity, now that they have the gavel all to themselves in both the house and the senate.

        Let's not bring the cart before the horse. If you want an IRS that can run on a shoestring budget, make a shoestring tax code that I can print

        • EXACTLY. As long as the tax code is ridiculously complicated, we're going to need ridiculously complicated bureaucracy and IT systems to manage and enforce that complexity. Let's see how well our new GOP overlords in Congress manage to legislate an actual reduction in tax code complexity, now that they have the gavel all to themselves in both the house and the senate.

          Let's not bring the cart before the horse. If you want an IRS that can run on a shoestring budget, make a shoestring tax code that I can print on my home inkjet printer -- THE WHOLE CODE -- in under 5 minutes.

          Otherwise, shut the fuck up and fund the IRS so they can do what they are required to do by law.

          I posted my plan above [slashdot.org], but I'll copy it here for your perusal:

          I think there should be one one federal income tax rate, and only one exemption. Make the rate whatever you want it to be, I don't care.

          The one exemption will be the amount equal to 5 times the level of poverty for a person or family, at the location they live. Use the federal Cost of Living Allowance to factor the difference between poverty levels in California and Arkansas.

          Anyone who reasonably believes their income for the year will fall belo

    • by LWATCDR ( 28044 )

      They already did that back in the 80s.
      Trouble is that if you make the code too simple than you can hurt business. You want to encourage business to do things like give benefits, hire people, spend on research and development and so on.
      You also want to encourage that average person to save, invest, spend education and so on.
      Frankly the answer of "simplify the tax code" is an oversimplification of a rather complex problem. Many people think that the rather complex tax code of the 60s and 70s was more fair tha

  • That's horrible! Just horrible. Oh, the humanity!
    • by fuzzyfuzzyfungus ( 1223518 ) on Thursday January 22, 2015 @09:48AM (#48874381) Journal

      That's horrible! Just horrible. Oh, the humanity!

      Actually, I'd go with 'yes, if a bit hyperbolic' on this one. Even in a hypothetical libertarian utopia, the military and police functions are deemed within the legitimate scope of the state, and not exactly expected to be paid for by donations and bake sales(in fact, the bake sales would be specifically illegitimate since they'd be a particularly feckless flavor of state industry).

      And, if you must have taxation, are you actually better off with incompetent, ideosyncratic, error-prone, and potentially insecure taxation, likely focused on shaking down easy targets in order to save money, rather than aiming for greatest possible procedural uniformity? Obviously, nobody enjoys the fact that things cost money, and essentially nobody would assert that our tax code, our budget, or both(usually both) are remotely optimal; but it is vanishingly unlikely that the reforms you(or anybody else) wants are something you'll be lucky enough to get as a product of the IRS flailing around in absence of the resources to operate as designed, or the state as a whole flailing around in an attempt to deal with budget shortfalls(unexpected ones in particular).

      Even the wholly serious 'starve the beast' theorists tend to be dangerously optimistic about the order in which various organs of 'the beast' will atrophy(frequently not the order they want); as well as tending to ignore the fact that, until deficit spending becomes impossible(either through political impasse over debt ceilings, or because the world at large won't buy T-bills anymore) deficit spending actually makes government-provided services more attractive(given that the US government can generally borrow with minimal difficulty and at fairly good rates, the percentage of a given project funded by debt is, at least in the short to medium term, almost indistinguishable from a pure discount. In the suitably long term, or to people who have a gnawing fear of 'debt' as a concept, this is troubling; but aside from them, deficit spending actually makes it easier to sell government programs: even fairly half-assed ideas start to look good at a suitable discount.)

      For these reasons, I'd maintain that any gloating about IRS dysfunction is deeply shortsighted and (unless it is specifically helping you avoid scrutiny of your stash in the Caymans), likely even self destructive: There are many potential gains to be realized through improvements in the tax structure and budget; but it is not actually that likely that they will be realized by unsystematic institutional starvation, while the consequences of a system too dysfunctional to even administer the already problematic tax code and budget as they are written are quite unlikely to be improvements.

      • Sorry I don't have mod points. Nice.

        Now, you can make a separate argument that the IRS needs a management change, or needs their entire IT strategy to be re-evaluated and possibly massively overhauled. You can also make an argument that they should be able to work efficiently with less resources than they get now. But I don't think anyone can make a serious argument that problems with their ability to function are desirable.
        • Indeed, it is perfectly possible that their IT strategy is utter crap(though it's also possible that their IT team is a bunch of plucky, hardworking, and dedicated people pulling off amazingly good results per dollar; I don't have the data to judge either way, and I'm pretty sure that either condemnation or praise for an IT operation of that size wouldn't fit in a slashdot post, though if anybody does know anything, I'd certainly be curious); but I've never understood the desire for an organization that wie
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by WhiplashII ( 542766 )

          I don't think anyone can make a serious argument that problems with their ability to function are desirable.

          OK, here is the argument:

          1) The IRS audits certain classes of people a LOT. (I've been audited almost every year for the last 5 years)
          2) Normally, they don't find anything worth mentioning. But the taxpayer still had to pay for the audit.
          3) So the taxpayer is out several thousand dollars, the "people" gained nothing
          4) Repeated across 10 million audits, on average the "people" are gaining FAR less th

          • Anecdote is anecdote.

            I've seen a ratio of 1:6 quoted a number of times before as being the dollars spent on audits to tax dollars collected as a result of the audits. Arguably that ratio would have to scale such that at some point it is no longer profitable to perform audits. But currently the IRS budget has been cut repeatedly and as a result it is safe to guess that we are letting more people get away with cheating on their taxes, or making silly mistakes.

            My Mother in Law is one of those that made a silly

      • by King_TJ ( 85913 ) on Thursday January 22, 2015 @10:56AM (#48874999) Journal

        The IRS suffering a temporary shutdown would be cause for celebration.

        I'm not talking about libertarian utopias here at all. Rather, I'm saying a failure of that magnitude (a government incapable of even keeping its agency going which collects its FUNDS) would be a huge wake-up call that the current system is broken.

        Discussions that might come from such a shutdown would include, "Maybe it's about time we simplify the tax code, so all of this infrastructure isn't necessary to collect taxes?"

      • by hendrips ( 2722525 ) on Thursday January 22, 2015 @10:57AM (#48875011)

        As someone with a fairly libertarian outlook, I'd like to chime in with my agreement. There is a whole raft of cuts that I'd like to make to the IRS and the tax code generally, but I'm not silly enough to think that de-funding their IT budget is going to help accomplish my goals.

  • I wonder if anyone in Congress realizes the IT staff probably includes the IRS in house security team. Cue the IRS suffering a breach at the height of tax season.
    • Aren't high level security breaches most likely to be due to employee's not following protocol? Having fewer employees doesn't increase that risk. Having new, inexperienced employees might.
      • Having fewer employees does increase that risk. If one person has to do the work of five, they will have to take some shortcuts (either to complete tasks quicker, or to drop 'low impact' tasks like checking and patching the latest vulnerabilities in software in use).

        • I doubt you can find any real world examples of that. It seems that most high level breaches are the result of phishing or similar schemes.
    • Bah! Who needs IT peons when you can buy 'Security Solutions' from your favorite vendors? Filthy neckbeards just spend their time pointing out additional problems that they claim to need more money to solve. Who needs people like that?
  • This is no more than an agency squeeze play for budget restoration. In other words, bull shit.

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday January 22, 2015 @09:32AM (#48874313)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by Shados ( 741919 )

      Not completely through fault of theirs thought. You have one of the most complex tax codes in the world (with several times the population of the only other first world country i can think of with a tax code thats just as fucked up), and a population who, because of heavy government distrust, is doing everything it can to stick it to the man (not counting corporations which always are).

      That will end up making it a much more complicated problem to deal with than the FBI has to. Its employees are also going t

    • by DrProton ( 79239 )

      The IRS is an unbelievably bloated agency.

      I call BS. Do you have any evidence of bloat at the IRS? The Boston Globe has reported that the IRS is not "up to the basics of its job." [bostonglobe.com] The IRS makes billions of dollars in fraudulent payments "because it lacks the ability to check whether many returns are accurate before refunds are mailed." The IRS relies on tax preparers to file accurate returns. Guess what, they often screw up. The agency is "so short-staffed it cannot answer nearly 40 percent of phone calls, and it has failed to meet its own 45-day d

    • They routinely expected 60 hour work weeks from the contractors.

      Boo hoo. Contractors are paid by the hour aren't they? Every other company in America is demanding 50 hours of their salaried, overtime exempt (only in name in most cases) employees. So again, boo hoo.

    • If they are so bloated why would the contractors have to work overtime? Would that mean they have excess labor?

  • by Anonymous Coward

    "Burn everything down, because there might be problems in the old implementation, so let's start from scratch." It's fun to think back to the time when /. wasn't filled with paranoiacs, and when working as a team to solve things wasn't seen as socialism.

    Yes, I understand that you think taxes are theft. Given that the alternative is either not having civilization or living in a permanent Mexican standoff (which, one could argue, is also not having civilization), it seems like having a functional government

    • by halivar ( 535827 )

      it seems like having a functional government would be something to support.

      Bolded the key word there for you. We currently have the most inefficient, nonsensically bureaucratic bloated warthog of a government in the western hemisphere. It's eating our capital to sustain its own largesse and that is stealing.

  • Instead of systematically targeting conservative groups by sitting on their paperwork, they should burn it for fuel.
  • Poor babies, so they'll have to get by with just 12.5 Bn in 2015...your tax dollars at work.

  • All the more reason to move to a flat tax system.

  • Yes. It's that simple: Shortsighted moronic stupidity.

    But this is the GOP playbook: break things so they don't work, then complain that they don't work, and break them some more.

    Case in point: the IRS.
    Now nobody particularly likes the taxman.
    But the IRS is responsible for funding the rest of government.
    So impairing the governments ability to actually pay for the things it does, is stupid.

    Specifically, for every dollar spent on the IRS, government takes in 5-7 dollars.
    So cutting the IRS, impairing it, preven

    • by dywolf ( 2673597 )

      to lash out at Big Government. They should call it the Ayn Rand Wet Dream Enhancement Act of 2014.

      (end got cut off again)

    • by halivar ( 535827 )

      for every dollar spent on the IRS, government takes in 5-7 dollars.

      Just because it collects the revenue does not mean it generates the revenue. You need to demonstrate that reducing the IRS's budget will, in fact, mean that people pay fewer taxes, which is a specious argument.

    • by sycodon ( 149926 )

      Kind of like breaking the Healthcare System because a tiny minority wasn't being served to the satisfaction of the Democrats?

  • Why is the tax code so convoluted that there is an entire industry devoted to following the code? It's because Congress keeps piling on the laws, exceptions, work-around, and "social engineering". Instead of adding law to the US Code, they should be removing pages from the US Code. To make things simpler, start eliminating "targeted" deductions and exemptions/exceptions to deductions, so that individuals and married people can play by the same rules as the businesses, companies, and corporations. If ins

    • "Why is the tax code so convoluted that there is an entire industry devoted to following the code?" - Good question. A lot of it has to do with lobby groups who seem to have their hands in every piece of legislation. Some of it is just general government mindset. They love to congratulate themselves for passing more regulations.

      "If you are going to give people money, give people money directly, and not via the IRS" - Couldn't agree with you more. It is far more efficient and less expensive to give the money

  • Reason being the tax code is so complex that to code that takes an enormous effort.
  • by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Thursday January 22, 2015 @11:40AM (#48875391) Journal

    WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING WE WANT.

    I know this is a crazy idea, but maybe we could have a serious discussion about what our government spends its money on, instead of just continuing to write checks for every bloody social program or war we feel like funding, and then kicking the can to future congresses by coming up with a "sequester" that takes a flat cut of every budget.

    I mean, yes, at least taking a TINY bit from each budget is better than never cutting spending at all, but that result is what you get when the room is filled with incompetents too stupid to compromise/prioritize in any way.

    Two points:
    1) the fact that we're the wealthiest nation with the highest standard of living ever in human history, and are having this discussion is pretty pathetic.
    2) Congress is largely to blame, but POTUS gets much of this as the nation looks to him for leadership, yet he cheerfully - like everyone else in Washington, largely in both parties - as if the money will never really run out. Every SOTU speech is filled with new programs he wants to enact, and new things to spend $ on. To repeat:

    WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING WE WANT.

    I know, I don't belong in politics. Clearly, I'm irrational by Washington standards.

  • You can't get rid of frauds as long as the IRS is involved. An organization with a license to steal should be talking about others' fraud.

For God's sake, stop researching for a while and begin to think!

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