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Education Government Programming

Arkansas Declares a High School CS Education State of Emergency 120

Posted by Soulskill from the send-in-the-national-guard dept.
theodp writes: Aiming to deliver on Governor Asa Hutchinson's inspired-by-Code.org-and-others Plan For Job Creation Through Technology Education, the Arkansas House voted 99-0 last week to require high schools to offer [but not require] a course in computer science, either in a traditional or online setting, starting this fall. Hutchinson learned last December that the state has only 6 qualified instructors to teach CS to high school students, so it's envisioned that the courses will be offered online through Virtual Arkansas ("where AR kids are Our kids").

Interestingly, House Bill 1183 includes a pretty dire-sounding Emergency Clause: "It is found and determined by the General Assembly of the State of Arkansas that computer science and technology skills are of vital importance to meet the growing needs of the workforce; that public school students need opportunities to develop computer science and technology skills in order to be competitive in the future; and that this act is immediately necessary to ensure that the Department of Education has the time necessary to develop and modify academic standards for computer science courses before beginning of the 2015-2016 school year. Therefore, an emergency is declared to exist, and this act being immediately necessary for the preservation of the public peace, health, and safety shall become effective on: (1) The date of its approval by the Governor."
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Arkansas Declares a High School CS Education State of Emergency More

Arkansas Declares a High School CS Education State of Emergency

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  • Time for the Arkansas Airlift (Score:3, Funny)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @08:06PM (#49022491)

    CS grads, assemble! We must all assemble and hurry to the blighted lands of Arkansas, where we shall seek to restore some stability through our arcane understandings of algorithmic complexity and the like.

    Good thing parachute drops and hand to hand knife fighting were required courses in my CS program! Boy did I think that wasn't going to be applicable in real life. Keep that in mind college CS students the next time you are learning something that seems impractical.

    • Hutchinson learned last December that the state has only 6 qualified instructors to teach CS to high school students, so it's envisioned that the courses will be offered online through Virtual Arkansas ("where AR kids are Our kids").

      I dont see a problem, I see a job opportunity for a number of people

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by khelms ( 772692 )
        Yep. Time to put in for some H1B positions!

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by dbIII ( 701233 )
        As for me I'm wondering what is required as a qualification and whether it's excessively restrictive.
        Back in the 1980s any recent grad with a maths focus could teach the concepts behind CS to high school students as well as anyone. The idea, today as then, is not to TRAIN students in python, perl, logo, basic or the current state of dotnet but TEACH students the idea of getting computers to do what they are told. A single introductory university level CS subject should be plenty to give the teachers more

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sycodon ( 149926 )

      It wouldn't be government without some crises that requires more taxing and spending.

      Next up, a disturbing disparity between girls and boys in Shop.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by BVis ( 267028 )

        That's a nasty jerk you've got in your knee, there. Neither taxes nor spending are mentioned anywhere here other than in your comment.

        I think my wife is a part time Muslim... Once a month she is offended by everything!

        Well, apparently "jerk" is involved here, but not in the way I originally thought.

        (psst.. that sig makes you look like a bigoted misogynistic asshole. Just thought someone should let you know.)

    • Do you know what they pay teachers in Arkansas..?????

  • Does one need to go to class to learn programming? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    My programming skill was honed not in the classroom setting, rather, I got it from reading books, manuals, studying code examples of others, posting questions on programming forum, asking friends, experimenting, lots and lots of testing and experimenting

    Since I never have any experience from attending 'programming classes' I won't comment on the merit or the de-merit of it, but I would like to ask the gurus over here ---

    Do you think it is more beneficial for one to learn programming from a more structural f

    • Just like the way they teach science and history, it's a group reading of a textbook and having a computer in front of you to test theories. I've sat through 4 of them. (6th Grade Applesoft Basic, 9th Grade QBasic, 10th Grade Pascal, Freshman College level C) They all teach the same concepts like sorting, even though most people these days ask a database program to do sorting work with an ORDER BY command in SQL.

    • Re:Does one need to go to class to learn programmi (Score:4, Insightful)

      by s.petry ( 762400 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @09:45PM (#49022921)

      No, there is no benefit especially in high school. High school is about control, not actually educating people. Teach rigid solutions to simple problems, and collect a paycheck. Mandated quarterly and monthly testing ensures that free thinking does not happen in public schools. Only the tests matter. If teachers attempt to teach their students, their students will do poorly on the tests. The tests are designed so that all steps must be followed to get a correct answer, even if those steps can be simplified. The tests are how teachers keep their jobs, and get raises. The only thing the administrators need to understand to do their job is make sure that the test scores are good.

      There is no carrot and stick, there are only whips. Count how many administrators are required to operate outside of the school. That is the number of whippings each teacher faces whenever they attempt to act on their professional skills and "teach" a child in a school.

      Sure, there are exceptions but you didn't ask about the exception. The normal is what I describe, just talk to a teacher who has been in the public school system for more than 5 years.

    • why is this modded down? its a legit question to be asked. I learned the same way as you coming up about tech (im more of a networking guy than programming) Ive sat in classes, and ive done it on my own (cisco classes and others) and I found benifits to both

      Learning on my own, there was less stress to get things done, which is a double edged sword. While I was free to do what I wanted, I had to have the mentality to keep myself on track though.

      on the other hand in class, it made it easier to simply as

    • By that logic let's just do away with school altogether. It costs a lot and everything you can learn there you can learn from books.

  • Therefore, an emergency is declared to exist, and this act being immediately necessary for the preservation of the public peace, health, and safety shall become effective on: (1) The date of its approval by the Governor."

    Who knows what all those nerds who would be studying CS will do now. We must do something before they alight from their parent's basements and on to the streets armed with Magic.

  • Emergency probably has legal meaning (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Etherwalk ( 681268 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @08:18PM (#49022553)

    The emergency language is probably just there for a legal reason--it's going to either free up certain funds for it, allow a body to act that otherwise wouldn't be able to, allow applications for certain funds, allow some other kind of budgeting change, or change the timeline determining when the legislation can become effective.

    Is Arkansas unusual in having 6 CS teachers? Do non-magnet high schools regular teach the Comp Sci AP these days?

    • The emergency language is probably just there for a legal reason--

      Such emergency declarations are usually there to allow immediate implementation of something that would normally require a lead time between passing the law and requiring compliance. If it's a crisis, all kinds of shortcuts can take place.

      But if it were truly an emergency, where are the local school boards? Why haven't THEY already acted to solve the emergency crisis? They're the front line in education, and they're supposed to know what the community needs. They certainly know more about their schools th

      • But if it were truly an emergency, where are the local school boards? Why haven't THEY already acted to solve the emergency crisis?

        They are busy trying to force schools to teach creationism.

      • But if it were truly an emergency, where are the local school boards? Why haven't THEY already acted to solve the emergency crisis?

        Football is more important than skoolin.

        -- Former Arkie

        • Football is more important than skoolin.

          I'm a CURRENT Arkie. That's too wordy, it should be: Football is more important period

    • In state legislatures, an "emergency" declares a law in effect immediately, waiving off the tradition 90-day-or-so notices.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by TWX ( 665546 )
      My 2000-student high school had one qualified CS teacher back in the nineties. My friends that went to other high schools in the same school district also had CS courses taught by real-live teachers at their schools, presumably qualified as well. That meant we were 5/6 of the way to where Arkansas is now.

      The school district that I lived in for awhile has six high schools, and I was acquainted with all six computer science teachers through various social functions. That meant they are 100% of the way t
    • In Arkansas acts passed by the legislature that don't declare an "emergency" take effect 90 days after the legislative session ends (usually in April) rather than immediately. This was designed to give time for a popular referendum to repeal legislative acts before they become law. Yes, the "emergency" clauses can get pretty comical.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by plover ( 150551 )

      Even in a big school in an affluent community in Minnesota (a really good public school with over 2000 students) seems to have had fairly low interest in CSci. When my son went, they had an AP computer science class that had 18 students. The next year, they had 15, and then the next there wasn't enough demand to hold the class. The sole qualified teacher in the school moved out of state about the same time my son graduated, and I don't know if or when they hired a replacement.

      That said, it's a few month cou

      • There is NO shortage of teachers trained in CS. There is a GLUT of middle aged people who were former programmers and engineers [in old programming languages which are out of date] who have decided to become teachers. I don't think that most of them are incapable of picking up Java or C# in one year to be able to teach kids. Maybe after learning a new language, they again become employable and leave.
        Visit your local IEEE or ACM meetings.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bmajik ( 96670 )

      When a bill declares that the measure is an emergency measure, it means that the changes enacted by the bill go into effect sooner than the typical implementation timeframe for legislative changes.

      E.g. if the normal delay is house->senate->governor->july 1st of next year, an emergency measure might be house->senate->governor->15 days

      The specific timing varies from state to state.

      There are a handful of bills being introduced in my state right now that list "AND TO DECLARE AN EMERGENCY" in t

  • Emergency? (Score:3)

    by rsmith-mac ( 639075 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @08:18PM (#49022559)

    Judging from the title alone, at first I thought they were being far too over-dramatic in calling any kind of CS education situation an "emergency."

    But after seeing that they only have 6 qualified CS teachers, I have to change my tune. Something is very, very wrong if a state of 3 million people only has 6 CS teachers.

    For all the fledgling nerds-to-be in AR, I hope they can find a good, long-term solution to the problem.

    • You don't need a CS education to slaughter chickens. Google on "Arkansas Tyson Chicken" to see what I mean.

      Probably anyone in Arkansas who earns a CS degree . . . ends up moving somewhere else anyway.

      • You don't need a CS education to slaughter chickens. Google on "Arkansas Tyson Chicken" to see what I mean.

        Probably anyone in Arkansas who earns a CS degree . . . ends up moving somewhere else anyway.

        I'll bet there is a rider forcing schools to teach Intelligent design in there somewhere.

        • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Most of those voting for it thought CS stood for Creation Science.

      • Probably anyone in Arkansas who earns a CS degree . . . ends up moving somewhere else anyway.

        Walmart does have a pretty big IT shop in Bentonville, which does import CS grads. In between them and Tyson, there are programming jobs for managing corporate systems.

      • Probably anyone in Arkansas who earns a CS degree ends up moving somewhere else anyway.

        Nope, not quite all. Although I have to say all of the other 7(!) people getting a BS in CS at the U of A Fayetteville back in the mid-70s long ago moved away; I never did.

        I've got 3 friends with CS degrees from here that are still here; everyone else I know has moved out of state including mechanical and chemical engineers -- and then one friend that does NO COMMENT for NO COMMENT. I suspect that his Doctorate certificate is written in invisible ink as well .... or maybe it really IS just a blank s

    • For all the fledgling nerds-to-be in AR, I hope they can find a good, long-term solution to the problem.

      Indeed. Programs like EAST [eastinitiative.org], which were originated in AR, are a good approach. They're offering training [ualr.edu] to help teachers for things like AP Computer Science via the state universities.

      And if they succeed in their CS education goals, maybe they'll find a way to get tech companies to set up shop in the state for more than just tech support. Lack of interesting work was one of the reasons I ended up leaving

    • It's another hack-fest from theodp - the beater of the single horse.

      Sometimes it's important, sometimes it's not. Mostly not.

      Do we need to be reminded about every event? No. Do we need to be reminded from time to time when things turn nasty? I'd say yes.

      Still, mostly no.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      "But after seeing that they only have 6 qualified CS teachers"

      Its very hard to find CS teachers who believe the Bible is literal and the earth is only 6,000 years old and still want to claim to be in a scientific field.

      • Amazing how many responders are showing their own stupidity while trying to expose other's stupidity.
        Note for those who think they are learned but are actually very obviously ignorant: Arkansas is not the same state as Kansas.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by nbauman ( 624611 )

        "But after seeing that they only have 6 qualified CS teachers"

        Its very hard to find CS teachers who believe the Bible is literal and the earth is only 6,000 years old and still want to claim to be in a scientific field.

        Forrest Mims.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by TWX ( 665546 )

      But after seeing that they only have 6 qualified CS teachers, I have to change my tune. Something is very, very wrong if a state of 3 million people only has 6 CS teachers.

      Assuming that they have roughly the same student:population ratio as we have around here, they should have closer to 60 CS teachers than six.

      I don't think it's unreasonable to have one CS teacher per high school, if that CS teacher is also qualified to teach mathematics or non-programming computer usage or computer journalism classes

    • Something is very, very wrong if a state of 3 million people only has 6 CS teachers.

      They have more than 6 CS teachers [uark.edu]. The 6 teachers is limited to high school alone, and that doesn't seem unusual to me.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dougmc ( 70836 )

      Something is very, very wrong if a state of 3 million people only has 6 CS teachers.

      I doubt it's that bad.

      What it probably means is that only six teachers have bothered to attain the needed certifications to teach CS in high school there so far, probably because there's been no demand for it.

      If the demand appeared, there's probably quite a few more teachers who have the needed skills already (perhaps they have a degree in CS but they're teaching math or science now, or they don't have a degree in CS proper but have one in a similar field that would also work, etc.) but they aren't certifie

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jstott ( 212041 )

      For all the fledgling nerds-to-be in AR, I hope they can find a good, long-term solution to the problem.

      Simple solution:: pay your CS teachers a market wage and your recruiting problems will disappear. According to the state of Arkansas, a starting teacher makes around $30k. Who wants to put up with a bunch of high school kids for $30/yr when I can make double that in a cube farm?

      -JS

  • A state of emergency for this? really? If there aren't more important things for these politicians to do then maybe we should close down their offices.

  • Sounds like another "war on" (Score:3, Insightful)

    by msobkow ( 48369 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @08:42PM (#49022665) Homepage Journal

    Americans love declaring "wars" on situations and things, or regional/national "emergencies" don't they?

    Why all the drama?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Why not? If you are in the business of creating laws, you might as well make a show of it. For this STATE OF EMERGENCY, we are taking TERRIBLY IMPORTANT ACTIONS on behalf of OUR IMPORTANT CITIZENS!

      Not like you lose any points for showmanship/marketing.

    • Because they wouldn't get funding to commission a theme song without all the drama. Arkansas, seriously? The first program that will be written will a cow tipping game.

  • What rools, what OS? (Score:3)

    by The New Guy 2.0 ( 3497907 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @08:46PM (#49022681)

    When I was in high school, we learned QBasic on IBM PS/2s. What's the current equivalent today? Nobody's completed the .net help file, so who has the book to teach it?

    • Re:What rools, what OS? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @08:53PM (#49022719)

      When I was in high school, we learned QBasic on IBM PS/2s. What's the current equivalent today? Nobody's completed the .net help file, so who has the book to teach it?

      You do make a good point. By the time I got done with the C=64 and basic, I had almost tricked myself into computing. We have to start somewhere, and I fear that schools will try to teach the programming flavor of the month.

      Baby Steps first.

      • It's hard to know what to teach in the middle of a debate, as when the class ends it's not over yet. Stay tuned to Slashdot for the updates.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

      BASIC is still widely available, including on low cost platforms like the Raspberry Pi. Horrible as it is something like Javascript might not be a terrible place to start these days, as it can both run as a CLI interpreted language and as part of a web page with immediate practical uses.

      That was always the attraction of BASIC - with a few lines of code you could fill the screen and do something interesting.

    • Well, if you want to go with Microsoft, there's always Small Basic, which is free and aims to be have a relatively shallow learning curve similar to QBasic back in the Dos days. I don't know anyone who teaches that though.

  • Sounds like a phone it in solution compared to the language used in stating the problem. Although given what they pay teachers compared to what you could get actually working in cs it's not too surprising. On the plus side at least they haven't tried to offer online gym classes.

  • It's simple economics (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kremvax ( 307366 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @09:25PM (#49022857) Homepage

    Teaching doesn't pay. Scores are leaving the profession, and fewer and fewer graduates are going into it.

    Education has now spent a decade as one of the five lowest-paying masters degrees in the country.
    (Music Education and Social Work, perennially topping the list.)

    For a degree that can easily cost a quarter-million dollars or more to obtain, starting salaries are scarcely competitive with the night manager at McDonalds.

    If they want real talent, the state is going to need to change their compensation system in a meaningful way.

  • Programming or 'computer skills' training? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GreatDrok ( 684119 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @09:34PM (#49022891) Journal

    When I was a school (many many years ago) computers were metal boxes with black and white (or green) screens and a flashing cursor. That's it. We were taught logic, binary and all that stuff. In school. We learned structured programming, some minor graphics but mostly it was how to do calculations, and make decisions etc. That set me up to pick up multiple programming languages over the years, and I moved from 8 bit through to 64 bit computers with ease. A decade or so after I had finished, schools were focussing on teaching computer skills which pretty much focussed on how to do 'things' in Windows or on a Mac and no-one knew jack about how the computer worked, especially the teachers. The result has been a generation of people who really know nothing about computers or computer science. If we taught other sciences like this we would still be thinking of elements like 'air' and 'fire' etc. Students need to know what is going on rather than skipping all that and focussing on making powerpoints.

  • If not many, then Arkansas may be exporting a lot of Computer Science literate young residents.

    • If not many, then Arkansas may be exporting a lot of Computer Science literate young residents.

      Possibly, but family ties can be pretty strong. If they get married before they graduate from college, it's not unimaginable to see a bunch having to stay in the general area to be around the spouses family, or the spouse has a job that they'd like to keep, and then the CS grad starts their own business to be able to stay in the area.

  • Land of Walmart... What's the Point? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by theshowmecanuck ( 703852 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @09:57PM (#49022961) Journal
    The Waltons outsource everything to China anyway. So why does Arkansas need programmers.

  • They'll get to CS curriculum (Score:4, Funny)

    by plopez ( 54068 ) on Monday February 09, 2015 @11:54PM (#49023301) Journal

    right after they finish up the creationism curriculum.

  • Seriously, rather than focusing on CS, which is a relatively narrow focus, they should consider Robotics instead.
    That is the future.
  • They will fail no matter what, because the education system is dominated by religious fanatics [slashdot.org].

    Since Judge Overton’s 1982 ruling, the concept of evolution has been covered in the biology textbooks on the Arkansas Department of Education’s approved list and appears, though is not emphasized, in its Science Curriculum Framework. However, there is evidence that despite this, evolution continues to be minimized or even ignored in most of the state’s schools. Many science teachers quietly compl

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