Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
United Kingdom Government It's funny. Laugh. Medicine Politics

Use Astrology To Save Britain's Health System, Says MP 320

Posted by Soulskill from the gullible-like-a-capricorn dept.
An anonymous reader writes: An MP from the governing Conservative Party has said that using astrology could radically improve the performance of Britain's National Health Service and that its opponents are "racially prejudiced" and driven by "superstition, ignorance and prejudice." David Treddinick even claims he has "helped" fellow legislators through astrology.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Use Astrology To Save Britain's Health System, Says MP More

Use Astrology To Save Britain's Health System, Says MP

Comments Filter:

  • Oblig (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @10:42AM (#49126825)

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/aortic-aneurysms-caused-by-movement-of-saturn-admits-nhs-2015022595714

  • Please tell me this is satire (Score:5, Funny)

    by Headw1nd ( 829599 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @10:44AM (#49126829)
    Is...is this real? Not some wayward story from The Onion?

    • Re:Please tell me this is satire (Score:5, Informative)

      by Trepidity ( 597 ) <delirium-slashdot@@@hackish...org> on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @10:50AM (#49126893)

      Unfortunately it's real. Tredinnick has been infamous [wikipedia.org] for these sorts of comments for years now.

      • Re:Please tell me this is satire (Score:5, Insightful)

        by knightghost ( 861069 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:05AM (#49127023)

        I blame the people that voted him in. Politicians are the result, voters are the cause.

        • Re:Please tell me this is satire (Score:5, Insightful)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) * on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @12:07PM (#49127699) Homepage Journal

          Did the voters really have a choice? For a start the choice at the general election is for both the ruling party and local MP, so if your national party of choice puts up an idiot as your local candidate you can support one or the other but not both.

          Tredinnick had a 9% majority in 2010, ahead of the the Liberal Democrats. Their vote has collapsed now though... The most realistic alternative might be UKIP in his constituency. So it's a choice between someone who believes in astrology and closet racists, or maybe treacherous liars if the LDs can pull it back together.

          We rejected the alternative vote and I imagine would reject PR on similar grounds (too thick to understand it), so this is what we are going to be stuck with for the foreseeable future.

      • Re:Please tell me this is satire (Score:5, Insightful)

        by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) * on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:06AM (#49127037)

        On the bright side, it's nice to be able to point to this guy when some European elitist claims that Americans (or more specifically, southerners) somehow have a monopoly on unscientific idiocy.

      • Re:Please tell me this is satire (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:28AM (#49127271)

        I'm getting a feeling that most people here are going to say some incredibly anti-democratic things in here in a moment without even realising it.

        Reality is, democratically elected parliament isn't supposed to be a bunch of elites but a cross-section of electorate. That means it needs to have a few superstitious people to be able to properly represent the population which also has such people in statistically significant amounts.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by LWATCDR ( 28044 )

          "Reality is, democratically elected parliament isn't supposed to be a bunch of elites but a cross-section of electorate."
          Yes and no.
          No they are not supposed to be elites in fact the whole idea of anyone being elite is counter to a democracy society in my opinion. But the UK does seem to like there royals and giving people knighthoods.
          But the people elected are supposed to be the best person to represent the population and that should include again IMHO a certain level of education and intelligence.

        • Re:Please tell me this is satire (Score:5, Informative)

          by Trepidity ( 597 ) <delirium-slashdot@@@hackish...org> on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @12:01PM (#49127641)

          I could see that in a proportional-representation system. If 10% of the population is really into homeopathy, they could vote for a party that represents those interests. But the UK has a first-past-the-post system, like the US, meaning members are elected by getting the most votes in a specific district. Is Tredinnick's district really majority in favor of astrology being funded by the NHS? My guess is no, and that he's elected despite this issue, not because of it. Incumbents are very hard to knock off, especially outside of marginal districts (his district is a Conservative stronghold, and the UK has no party primaries), so he keeps winning regardless of whether his district's residents think astrology is useful or not.

        • Re:Please tell me this is satire (Score:5, Interesting)

          by kanweg ( 771128 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @04:16PM (#49130691)

          "Reality is, democratically elected parliament isn't supposed to be a bunch of elites but a cross-section of electorate. That means it needs to have a few superstitious people to be able to properly represent the population which also has such people in statistically significant amounts."

          We let the people who can cook well be cooks, the people who drive well be drivers, etc. etc. Except politicians. Apparently it is perfectly possible to run a country without any qualifications (except perhaps the skill to convince other to vote for you). Or by averaging the opinion of milions of people. That is a terrible kind of democracy.

          I would like politicians to pass various exams before they're allowed to "rule". (Logical reasoning, fallacies, decision making).
          I would like anyone to be able to comment on whatever is up for vote (in a moderated system where any comment is allowed only once). So, a single individual could change the outcome, by having a strong argument or a better idea, benefitting everyone.

          Why choose for a form of democracy that results in mediocrity, instead of excellence?

          Bert

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Svartalf ( 2997 )

        And he's part of the Conservative Party instead of the Silly Party [youtube.com]?

    • Re:Please tell me this is satire (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Racemaniac ( 1099281 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:08AM (#49127057)

      I'm actually wondering what the result would be if they began implementing this.

      From a pure biological point of view it's ofcourse pure bullshit.

      But we can hardly deny that our current doctors just suck with the psychological side of feeling bad/illnesses. A lot of the power in "alternative medicine" is to support the people mentally, which as the placebo effect shows also helps quite a bit. It doesn't cure your cancer, but adding some spiritual side to the process that doesn't treat the people as patient #145563255 might actually give quite a positive result.

      I think that no longer ignoring the psychological needs of people who are ill is one of the next big medical challenges. I've read people who fought cancer who said that the interaction with doctors & staff is also one of the hardest things. They seem to think you should be able to deal with all the shit that comes with it yourself and be fully informed and pay attention to every detail etc... while you're feeling like shit due to chemotherapy and are trying to resolve everything in your life before it's too late.

      Now we seem to have 2 branches of "medicine". One that cures your body, but doesn't care much about your mind. And one that's full of "you should feel good and be happy" but doesn't know shit about your body (well, depending on the alternative medicine. there are some that do know some things, but still won't cure cancer).

      • You seem to ignore psychology.

        The problem is basically funding, highly trained professionals getting not enough resources to helt people.

        • Re:Please tell me this is satire (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Racemaniac ( 1099281 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:56AM (#49127585)

          I mean in common treatment. Unless you complain about psychological issues (or act really really weird), you won't see anyone who really cares about your mental status. People with serious illnesses who go to modern medicine for treatment end up in a pharmacological & scientific world where their body will be scanned, probed, checked, double checked, analysed, etc.... they'll be given substances & treatments to cure whatever they find. But psychological assistance to go along with this just doesn't belong in that world it seems. You're here for cancer, not for feeling good about yourself.
          And i think we still vastly underestimate how much also feeling good actually helps us get trough things, and helps our body going in such grave situations.

        • You seem to ignore psychology.

          The problem is basically funding, highly trained professionals getting not enough resources to helt people.

          You mean psychiatry. Psychology is a not a medical discipline and therefore treatment by a psychologist is actually alternative treatment.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by pr100 ( 653298 )

      You're surprised by politicians being scientifically clueless? I guess you can't be an American....

    • This might work... But not because astrology works, but because enough people believe in it.
      If someone believes in their horoscope and says today should be a good day to be adventurous, they may use that day to take more risks, and injure themselves in the process. Or the fact that particular stars are visible during different seasons. So while Orion is visible, then there is a higher chance to get the flu.
      Astrology isn't science, but it is just a bunch of data loosely correlated with results. These data co

    • Is...is this real? Not some wayward story from The Onion?

      If you are old enough, perhaps you will remember Nancy Reagan...

    • Re:Please tell me this is satire (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @01:12PM (#49128415) Journal

      The Onion is not fake, they are just ahead of reality. They predicted:

      - RIAA sues radio stations for playing free music

      - Gillette creates 5-blade razor

      - Neil Armstrong's widow cleans out closet of "space crap" (finds museum gems)

      - Joe The Plumber ("dude" pundit)

      - Charlie Sheen going violent

      - Newly elected Bush announcing era of peace and prosperity is over (911, Iraq, mortgage crash)

      - Ann Coulter saying radiation good for you. (Oh wait, Onion missed that one.)

  • ... that this is all a dream and I'm going to wake up.

  • He is linking homeopathy to astrology (Score:5, Insightful)

    by abies ( 607076 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @10:45AM (#49126845)

    "Ninety per cent of pregnant French women use homeopathy. Astrology is a useful diagnostic tool enabling us to see strengths and weaknesses via the birth chart."

    At first, I have failed to see the common ground between homeopathy and astrology - these two sentences sounded completely unrelated. But they are actually related - it says
    "90% of French women are gullible enough to fall for homeopathy. This means that most of them are stupid enough to also believe astrology crap, so market is ripe"

    • Sounds like Bill Nye needs to lambast Britain and France next since he had so much fun calling out Americans for irrational behavior

      • Rightly so, if you permit me. He's pointing out that since 90% (a figure for which he has no proof, of course...) of women in France use homeopathy and pay lots of money for it, and since homeopathy has exactly the same scientific justification as astrology (i.e. zero), why not use astrology as well? Makes perfect sense.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dave420 ( 699308 )
        Did the nasty man huwt your feewings?

    • "Ninety per cent of pregnant French women use homeopathy. Astrology is a useful diagnostic tool enabling us to see strengths and weaknesses via the birth chart."

      At first, I have failed to see the common ground between homeopathy and astrology - these two sentences sounded completely unrelated. But they are actually related - it says "90% of French women are gullible enough to fall for homeopathy. This means that most of them are stupid enough to also believe astrology crap, so market is ripe"

      That would be true only if all French women are pregnant.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by abies ( 607076 )

        Well, amount of pregnant women is big enough to be representative. Unless there is a selection bias which links pregnacy to stupidity/gullability...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) *

      The stat about French women is a lie. Even if he means it in the sense that "90% of pregnant French women drink water", which is all homeopathic medicine is, it would still be wrong as I'm sure 100% of them do.

      This guy is up for re-election in a few months, let's hope he loses his seat.

    • When applied correctly homeopathy is GREAT for treating not-actually-existing issues plaguing patients. Essentially you are applying a placebo to a patient who is feeling "nervous" or something else rather hypochondriac and if the placebo producer did not violate production regulations you end up giving them a bit of sugar and like that you cured the non-existing with the not-healing.
      Despite tongue-in-cheek I do mean this serious because there are people who DO suffer from non-existing issues, yes it is all

    • Re:He is linking homeopathy to astrology (Score:5, Informative)

      by Guybrush_T ( 980074 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:14AM (#49127119)

      I confirm that here in France, homeopathy is very common, and even MDs frequently use it.

      But let's be serious. The placebo effect is one of the most effective thing in medical problems. The problem with it is that if you don't believe in it, it no longer works. Building false theories that makes sense for most people is therefore a skill that can be much more effective than finding real cures.

      So, in a way, I can't blame people who use it just because, as an ultra-rational guy, I do not have the "chance" of being able to use those things with a positive effect. Maybe using astrology and homeopathy would indeed increase the efficiency of the health system. Not because it prevents illnesses, but just because we have to recognize that it really works by misleading people's brain.

      • But let's be serious. The placebo effect is one of the most effective thing in medical problems. The problem with it is that if you don't believe in it, it no longer works. Building false theories that makes sense for most people is therefore a skill that can be much more effective than finding real cures.

        Only by creating a system in which, in order to work properly, information must be hidden from the patient. This is unacceptable, full stop.

    • A difficult birth... (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:17AM (#49127151)

      "Astrology is a useful diagnostic tool enabling us to see strengths and weaknesses via the birth chart."

      Doctor: Hmm, I've consulted the charts and I'm afraid you're in for a difficult birth. It would seem that on the due date your Sun will be in Uranus.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • "Ninety per cent of pregnant French women use homeopathy. Astrology is a useful diagnostic tool enabling us to see strengths and weaknesses via the birth chart."

      At first, I have failed to see the common ground between homeopathy and astrology - these two sentences sounded completely unrelated. But they are actually related - it says
      "90% of French women are gullible enough to fall for homeopathy. This means that most of them are stupid enough to also believe astrology crap, so market is ripe"

      And that figure of 90% actually comes from where? I mean other than out of Tredinnick's ass of course.

  • But I asked a magic 8-ball if it was a good idea and it said "Without a doubt". Who am I to argue with science?

  • Nutjob Tory MP in Irrational Lunacy Shock (Score:5, Informative)

    by Oxygen99 ( 634999 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @10:48AM (#49126873)
    Tredinnick's a nut who has form for this kind of statement. [independent.co.uk]

    Still. At least he's not on the House of Commons Health Committe [parliament.uk] or anything. What's that? Oh...

  • US Monopoly (Score:5, Funny)

    by crunchy_one ( 1047426 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @10:50AM (#49126885)
    I'd like to remind David Treddinick, and any other non-US citizens contemplating similar actions, that we in the US take our intellectual property rights seriously. We believe that we and we alone enjoy the right to use or sell crackpot politicians. Unless Mr. Teddinick has a license for our technology, he's set himself up to be on the receiving end of some very strongly worded letters from our attorneys.
  • And here I thought the USA got all the nut jobs after the American War. Good to see the UK retained a few.

    • And the good news is most of these nuts are in politics, a profession that doesn't have any repercussions for everyone else...

  • ..and we're done (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    We had a good run from post WWII to about the early 21st century. For some reason, science and technology had to wait for a major war, then suddenly we accepted science and technology as we gave ourselves a great orgy of technology.

    Now that the wind has run out of that sail, and we've hit plateaus on pretty much everything, and university education is dumbed down and sold like a late-night infomercial, humanity will slide back to what we always were; a bunch of emotionally-driven lunatics hungry for power.

    • . . . says yet another person who appears to be totally ignorant about history. Do you really believe that if you went back in time to, say, 1950, you couldn't find politicians saying equally idiotic things, perhaps in even greater numbers? And do you think "technology" is limited to, say, space travel?

      I am carrying, in my pocket, a computer significantly more powerful than anything I used as a child (and much cheaper in absolute dollars), with access to a global information network containing most of hum

  • What an idiot... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Buchenskjoll ( 762354 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @10:56AM (#49126959)
    but what else would you expect from a capricorn...

  • David Tredinnick ... come on down, you're our next contestant on "how did I live so long being such a fucking moron?"

    I'm sorry, but no.

    The MP for Bosworth, in Leicestershire, who is a Capricorn and in 2010 paid back £755 he had claimed in expenses for software that used astrology to diagnose medical conditions, told Astrological Journal: "I do believe that astrology and complementary medicine would help take the huge pressure off doctors".

    Dumb as a box of hammers, looking to spend taxpayer money

  • Good to hear about the trans-Atlantic stupid-party co-operation.

  • Yes, racist! (Score:3)

    by T.E.D. ( 34228 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:11AM (#49127079)

    Anyone who laughs at using the predictable alignment of stars and planets to make earthbound decisions is clearly only doing it because they hold an ugly prejudice against ancient Sumerians [wikipedia.org].

    Few things are more disgusting than an anti-Urist. Come on people, its not 1965 (BC) anymore!

  • its opponents are driven by superstition !! .. oh my god i'm gonna laugh my ass out .. I cant stop ..

  • This made my day... (Score:3)

    by MiniMike ( 234881 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:17AM (#49127143)

    But I'm only laughing because I'm not British. This would terrify me if I were British. Not that we don't have plenty of similar nuts in Congress.

    Has anyone checked recently if Treddinick weighs as much as a duck? I think it's time.

  • The funniest line in this article is "The MP for Bosworth, in Leicestershire, who is a Capricorn..." -- well done to the journalist who wrote this!

  • Surely this is grounds for him being dismissed as an MP. What a truly stupid man.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Chrisq ( 894406 )

      Surely this is grounds for him being dismissed as an MP. What a truly stupid man.

      If being mentally incompetent was grounds for being dismissed as an MP the chambers would be almost empty

    • Surely this is grounds for him being dismissed as an MP. What a truly stupid man.

      I can't believe anyone would vote him back in anyway.

      I assume he's in a safe Tory seat?

      • Appears largely be so, yes. This muppet has held the seat continuously since 1987. Last election he won the seat by nine points (runner up was Lib Dem, not Labour, incidentally).

        • Appears largely be so, yes. This muppet has held the seat continuously since 1987.

          So, stupid idiots, with beliefs based neither on reality nor evidence ... get re-elected by stupid idiots, with beliefs based neither on reality nor evidence.

          This really is what is wrong with the world ... stupid people elect stupid people.

  • ... even when used with good intentions.

    It may do good in the short term for some people, much the same as a placebo, but unlike a placebo it brings with it a whole load of baggage (like homoeopathy and it's pseudo science research that was government funded in the UK until only recently).

    The last thing anyone wants to see is astrology becoming more widely accepted as anything other than fiction... Stick with the placebo pill, it has the same effect and is a plain white lie with no baggage polluting minds o

  • He actually could be right. No joke. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Qbertino ( 265505 ) <moiraNO@SPAMmodparlor.com> on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:35AM (#49127347)

    Seriously.

    I did consult a homeopath in the 90ies and early 2000nds, mostly because my mother was all super-pushy about it and I wanted her to quit pestering me. He would question me on the phone for 40 to 60 minutes. His anamnesis was the best I ever had. I don't recall if I even opened the package that came a week or so later containing the "LM Potence" of some obscure Homeopathic substance, i.e. a water and alcohol mixture in a small important looking flask. But I do remember being way calmer and way more educated on my condition. I thought I had heart problems and he pin-pointed reflux after the extensive questionaire and talk on the phone.
    I've never spoken to an doctor for that long and I'd be suprised if any doctor had time or could afford such a thing. I would like to have such a medical expert to talk to that does not push obscure 'treatment' on me, that would be optimal.

    I treated my reflux with healing-earth, baking soda, meditation/relaxation excercise and a change in diet and told my MD who wanted to sell me a "heart and lung condition" diagnosed in the record time of 2.5 minutes to fuck off. Never had problems since.

    The point is: Good Homeopaths are actually quite well medically educated and can be terrific "anameticists" (wording?), because their main job actually is to talk to the patient, find out what's bugging him and - ideally - do a solid diagnose. That they only prescribe sugar-pills is a minor nuiscance from that perspective.

    If astrology would lead to a new occupation in which the main purpose is talking to the patient and find out what exactly the condition is, it could be a good thing. Wether the professional in question would be a homeopath, an astrologer, magician or whatnot wouldn't really matter. Only treatment then, of course, would need to be decided upon by a different party.

    Modern medicine need a profession specifically for anamnesis. Until that happens, homeopaths and perhaps even astrologers will fill that gap. Poorly at time perhaps, but they'll fill it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Chris Mattern ( 191822 )

      Anamnesis [wikipedia.org] is a philosophy that we subconsciously know information from our past lives. "Anameticist" isn't a word. I have no idea what word you actually meant to use.

      • Crackpot.

    • Re:He actually could be right. No joke. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sribe ( 304414 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @12:28PM (#49127951)

      I've never spoken to an doctor for that long and I'd be suprised if any doctor had time or could afford such a thing.

      No, but a decent doctor could do the differential diagnosis of reflux vs heart problems in about 1 minute flat, without spending most of an hour on irrelevant bullshit intended only to impress the gullible (which looks like it worked, at least in this case).

  • Astrology and Homoeopathy are both extremely effective, especially for difficult conditions such as mental health issues. Now sure, this is only due to the placebo effect, but doctors are pretty rubbish at exploiting the placebo and the placebo is extremely powerful! Something seems to prevent them from telling a patient nonsense that will make them believe they will get better and thus actually help them get better. Astrologists and Homoeopaths have no such issues, so this politician is completely correct

  • This is the most sensible Tory statement on NHS (Score:3)

    by Chrisq ( 894406 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:36AM (#49127381)
    This is the most sensible Tory policy on the NHS that I have heard for a long time ...... sad but true

  • Total fruitcake (Score:3)

    by hairykrishna ( 740240 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @11:40AM (#49127423)

    The guy is a well known loon. In the past he's been very vocal in his support of homeopathy and various other quackery. If memory serves he once also publically claimed that blood won't clot under a full moon.

    He sits on the Science and Technology Select Committee and the Health Select Committee. An astonishingly clear example of an elected official not being fit for purpose.

  • I guess it might be less so if you were actually british though.

  • http://www.theyworkforyou.com/... [theyworkforyou.com]

    what a complete and utter waste of democracy this man is.

  • Ahh yes, crying racism is the new solid defense against anti-batshit/religious/woo claims.

    I don't know who this asshole is, but I am willing to bet he is a white christian, which makes the claim even more hilarious.

    • Yeah, I wanted to hear a bit more about his "racism" claim. I can only assume a rational brown skinned person laughed at him in the street or something.

      • I am not a minority in any way, but I would think actual minorities should be annoyed by the use of this.

        But perhaps just pointing and laughing is the best response.

  • "An MP from the governing Conservative Party..."

    Why am I not surprised.

    The stars are also against the EU, I presume.

  • In a high tech world, we can no longer afford to be governed by the innumerate, technically challenged and the uneducated. Democracy as currently constructed is failing.

  • "But the village idiot's dirty smock and wall falling are a far cry from the modern world of the urban idiot. What kinds of backgrounds do these city idiots come from?"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • but isn't astrology just superstition?

  • Not so lonely anymore (Score:3)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @12:52PM (#49128211) Journal

    It's good to know that USA does not have a monopoly on anti-science whackjob politicians.

    Maybe we can swap politicians to keep 'em fresh: We'll trade you 2 witches and a faith healer for 2 astrologers and a Stonehenge cultist.

Slashdot Top Deals

Understanding is always the understanding of a smaller problem in relation to a bigger problem. -- P.D. Ouspensky

Close