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Education

Harvard Hit With Racial Bias Complaint 529

An anonymous reader writes: A coalition of 64 organizations filed a complaint against Harvard on Friday alleging the university discriminates against Asian-American applicants hoping to attend classes there. "Many studies have indicated that Harvard University has been engaged in systemic and continuous discrimination against Asian-Americans during its very subjective 'Holistic' college admissions process." One such study shows Asian-Americans had to score an average of 140 points higher than white students on their SAT test to have an equal chance of getting in. The complaint seeks a federal investigation and demands Harvard "immediately cease and desist from using stereotypes, racial biases and other discriminatory means in evaluating Asian-American applicants."
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Harvard Hit With Racial Bias Complaint

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  • Affirmative Action (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Zelucifer ( 740431 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:04PM (#49708031)

    Isn't racial discrimination the definition of affirmative action? I'm not sure what makes them think they have any actionable complaints against the university.

    • by techno-vampire ( 666512 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:16PM (#49708073) Homepage
      Actually, affirmative action is reverse discrimination because it seeks to make it easier for various minorities to get accepted than it otherwise would have been. The fact that this causes the institution to discriminate against qualified applicants who aren't members of the favored minority is just an unpleasant consequence that proponents of the scheme try to sweep under the rug.
      • by Dunbal ( 464142 ) * on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:24PM (#49708125)
        Yes it's that old argument that "x" is only bad when used against us.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Affirmative Action's original intent seeks to cease historical racism and racists/sexists from claiming that people of color or sex cannot attend a legal institution. People in power misinterpret that to mean that its reverse racism when the policies put in place to handle the compliance of the declaration are the culprit, not the declaration of Affirmative Action itself.

        In any case, money talks. Those who are richer are most likely to get into Ivy league schools regardless of affirmative action.

        • by Taco Cowboy ( 5327 ) on Sunday May 17, 2015 @12:11AM (#49709139) Journal

          Affirmative Action's original intent seeks to cease historical racism and racists/sexists from claiming that people of color or sex cannot attend a legal institution

          Fuck you!

          I am an Asian American and I will tell you to stuff that goddamn 'historical racist/sexist' excuse back where the sun never shines

          I never need any affirmative action to get to where I am

          I never applied for any aid, and never receive any either

          And in academic study I never get - and never even thought of getting - any break just because I am a "minority"

          I do not believe in the bullshit that because of some 'historical event' I am in any way 'disadvantaged'

          And I will say the same "Fuck You!" to those who say that "Affirmative Action" is still needed

          --- --- ---

          That said, regarding the TFA, I do not know why they complaint about the 140 point above the White thing when the fact is that the Hispanic and the Blacks are being enrolled into ivy league colleges (and all other colleges as well) with really, and I mean, unbelievably low scores!

          What they are doing is that they are forcing the talented individuals to share the same class with idiots, they are actually discriminating against those with genuine talents

          I dunno man ... This AA thing is a fucked up thing to begin with and it's 2015 and we still getting stuck with this fucked up thing

          When will America grow up?

          In Japan, in Korea, in China they do not have AA --- and their economies are growing leaps and bounds and everybody can attest to their technological achievements

          America should get rid of this fucked up AA thing, or else we can never catch up to those living in East Asia

          • by Eunuchswear ( 210685 ) on Sunday May 17, 2015 @03:03AM (#49709583) Journal

            In Japan, in Korea, in China they do not have AA --- and their economies are growing leaps and bounds and everybody can attest to their technological achievements

            In Japan? Economy growing leaps and bounds? Where have you been for the last 20 years?

          • by jordanjay29 ( 1298951 ) on Sunday May 17, 2015 @04:19AM (#49709741)

            In Japan, in Korea, in China they do not have AA --- and their economies are growing leaps and bounds and everybody can attest to their technological achievements

            Wait, you mean in a country with low ethnic diversity, there's no need for special measures to prevent ethnicity-based discrimination?!

      • by ganjadude ( 952775 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:40PM (#49708229) Homepage
        there is no such thing as reverse discrimination. all discrimination, is discrimination
        • If only there was some sort of test that people could take to unearth their biases...

          Oh, here are some! https://implicit.harvard.edu/i... [harvard.edu]

      • by NicBenjamin ( 2124018 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @09:06PM (#49708553)

        Depends on what you mean by qualified.

        If you're looking for the kid whose actual talent level is top 1%, then a valedictorian from a school with few AP classes, whose SAT score is low because he had to spend his off-hours working at his dad's gas station is a really good bet. Especially if he got a 95th percentile on the test. You know he didn't spend 20 hours a week with an SAT coach. He's probably actually a lot better then 95th percentile.

        OTOH a rich tiger daughter, whose mother insisted she take 8 AP classes, was not allowed to do any extracurricular activities that don't add mondo points to the student-selection algorithm (ie: classical violin rather then rock guitar), and got 96th percentile. You know she did spend 20 hours a week with an SAT coach. Let's just say she's probably not gonna do better then 96th percentile in real life.

        But any criteria solely for accepting applicants based on points, GPA, test scores, etc. is gonna result in her getting in 100% of the time.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 16, 2015 @10:17PM (#49708839)

          My sister worked in Ivy undergrad admissions. She actually tells a story of how an Asian father called her asking WHY they let his son in - his grades and test scores weren't perfect. Her answer was- because he actually played sports, had hobbies, and joined clubs that weren't just resume builders... the kid was interesting.

          They actually had a name for this: "atypical asian"

      • by ttfkam ( 37064 )

        Like when peaceful white protesters have had dogs and fire hoses set on them by all black police departments? When white families were denied access to housing in black neighborhoods? When job applicants were looked over simply because they had a white sounding name? When white kids were more likely to be suspended or expelled from school for the same offenses as black kids? When black felons were more likely to get a job offer than a white person with a clean record? How about when whites were directed tow

    • by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:21PM (#49708109)

      No. Though some people feel that way. Affirmative action is what t says it is; instead of passively assuming that civil rights makes people equal overnight, there needed to be an active response to try and make things equal. Ie, most colleges refused historically to enroll black students, and black schools were historically underfunded and so did not prepare students well for college, then it's completely naive to say "you're all equal now, good luck with that!" and assume things will sort themselves out.

      Of course those who do not believe that institutional racism exists don't believe it though.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 16, 2015 @08:02PM (#49708301)

        TL;DR: Affirmative Action tries to attain Equal Outcomes by eradicating Equal Opportunity.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 16, 2015 @10:07PM (#49708807)

          Better TL;DR: Affirmative Action tries to attain lifelong Equal Opportunity by eradicating short-term Equal Opportunity.

          • by liquid_schwartz ( 530085 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @10:38PM (#49708921)

            Better TL;DR: Affirmative Action tries to attain lifelong Equal Opportunity by eradicating short-term Equal Opportunity.

            Affirmative action has been going on for over 50 years years and has no end in sight. Your being disingenuous if you call that short term. Indeed, any program that has had >50 years to achieve the goal and is still hopelessly falling short should be dropped and a search started for a more effective replacement.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          No. Affirmative action would be things like making an effort to attract more students from underrepresented groups, e.g. by doing recruitment drives at majority black schools.

          Ultimately, admission is still done purely on merit. Let's be absolutely clear about that. Some extra money might be offered to help disadvantaged students get better grades, but ultimately they still have to pass the same bar as everyone else and compete on an equal footing during the admissions process.

          If that isn't the case, it isn'

      • by Oligonicella ( 659917 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @08:02PM (#49708303)

        And that has what to do with discrimination against Asian Americans?

      • by Shakrai ( 717556 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @08:48PM (#49708483) Journal

        Affirmative action is what t says it is; instead of passively assuming that civil rights makes people equal overnight, there needed to be an active response to try and make things equal.

        Meanwhile, those of us who came of age having nothing whatsoever to do with slavery or Jim Crow are disadvantaged because of the crimes of yesteryear. Corruption of blood is antithetical to American values. So is ignoring both the letter and spirit of the Equal Protection Clause. The only people who advocate in favor of Affirmative Action are those that believe the "original sin" is being born with a low melanin count.

        By the by, since TFA is about Asian-Americans, perhaps you'd care to explain why that group has done so well for itself? They were rounded up and put into camps [wikipedia.org] within recent memory, to say nothing of the racially biased immigration laws of the late 19th/early 20th centuries, or the more subtle racism directed towards their group even into modern times.

        Here's another inconvenient truth for you: The biggest predictor of success in life isn't how much money your family has or what your melanin count is. It's whether or not you come from a two parent household. That Tea Party zealot known as Daniel Patrick Moynihan pointed this out decades ago but was completely ignored by the policymakers of the day. Government can't compel people to stay in relationships (nor should it try) but it could provide mechanisms to remove some of the stresses of American society on families. We could start with a decent family leave system (something half as good as the Nordic Countries and/or Canada) that would actually enable both parents to spend time in the household without worrying about destroying their career prospects.

        • by NicBenjamin ( 2124018 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @09:29PM (#49708637)

          Affirmative action is what t says it is; instead of passively assuming that civil rights makes people equal overnight, there needed to be an active response to try and make things equal.

          Meanwhile, those of us who came of age having nothing whatsoever to do with slavery or Jim Crow are disadvantaged because of the crimes of yesteryear. Corruption of blood is antithetical to American values. So is ignoring both the letter and spirit of the Equal Protection Clause. The only people who advocate in favor of Affirmative Action are those that believe the "original sin" is being born with a low melanin count.

          Don't give a shit about the melanin count. It's actually illegal to give a shit about melanin count in a quantifiable sense.

          Do give a shit that folks like Mitt Romney can arrange it so their kids maximize their SAT scores and GPAs, while using their superior knowledge of the college admissions process to ensure that when their kid spends a couple months obsessed with silly-ass hobby it's something that colleges give points for (ie: computer programming) rather then something they consider more suited to the hoi polloi (ie: learning to be a car mechanic).

          Most Affirmative Action programs that have survived the court system look at the "whole student," so that a kid from a school system that has no AP classes doesn't get penalized for not having those classes, particularly compared to the kid whose Mom got them above 4.0 by refusing to let little Timmy take anything but the 5 AP classes offered his senior year. They look at the numbers, but they are allowed to consider the fact that, yes, little Timmy has GPA and test scores in the top 4%, but compared to his actual peers at $50k a year Prep Schools he's more like 12th percentile. OTOH Billy Bob from West Virginia was top in his class, spent time doing things that look shitty on a college resume (like hunting and car races), and he still got a test score in the top 5%.

          Billy Bob could be taught to be the smartest man in the country. Timmy from Prep School is gonna be lucky if he turns into Dubya.

          By the by, since TFA is about Asian-Americans, perhaps you'd care to explain why that group has done so well for itself? They were rounded up and put into camps [wikipedia.org] within recent memory, to say nothing of the racially biased immigration laws of the late 19th/early 20th centuries, or the more subtle racism directed towards their group even into modern times.

          Here's another inconvenient truth for you: The biggest predictor of success in life isn't how much money your family has or what your melanin count is. It's whether or not you come from a two parent household. That Tea Party zealot known as Daniel Patrick Moynihan pointed this out decades ago but was completely ignored by the policymakers of the day. Government can't compel people to stay in relationships (nor should it try) but it could provide mechanisms to remove some of the stresses of American society on families.

          The problem with that is that nobody wants to marry a working class guy with a part-time gig in retail, but nobody wants to give working-class guys without a very nice degree and some good networking skills any other type of job.

          If they try to get ahead by getting that college education, some Tiger Mother will notice their mother didn't make their applications 100% perfect, and sue the school for racial discrimination because the white/asian-types who have perfect apps are racially different then the black-Latin-white types who make up the working class.

          Note that the obvious solution (having Harvard accept lots more kids) is untenable because part of the USNews college ranking formula is how many kids they say no to.

          We could start with a decent family leave system (something half as good as the Nordic Countries and/or Canada) that would actually enable both parents

          • by Minupla ( 62455 )

            We could start with a decent family leave system (something half as good as the Nordic Countries and/or Canada)

            Funny story - I'm a Canadian working for the Canadian office of a company that's (like most North American wide companies) predominately based in the US. The SHOCK when the US side of my team learned how much time off we get for maternity/paternity leave was amusing, followed by the scramble when they had to back-fill the role.

            (For those who are unaware, Canada gives 6 months leave to each the mot

          • by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

            If you really think Romney's kids would be refused entry into the college of their choice based on grades, you really don't understand anything about this country. Money, money, money. If you've got it, nothing else matters.

        • It's true. We're still dealing with consequences of stuff that happened a couple hundred years ago. But that doesn't mean we ignore it. Pushing problems down the road doesn't get rid of problems.

        • by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @10:10PM (#49708823) Journal

          Meanwhile, those of us who came of age having nothing whatsoever to do with slavery or Jim Crow are disadvantaged because of the crimes of yesteryear.

          No, it means that you were advantaged by the "crimes of yesteryear", and now it's time to share some of that advantage.

          Privilege is a really hard concept for people to grasp. It's not you, Shakrai, it's human nature. Everybody likes to believe that they got where they are through natural talent and hard work, when in fact people with privilege start the inning on second base. It's like playing a video game on the easiest setting. At some point, you start to think that you're just really good at the game. I'm not saying that you have a special privilege, or did not have challenges in life, only that certain people are part of a privileged class.

          No society is without privileged classes. It might be something as trivial as those with blond hair and blue eyes. There are those who believe that there is benefit to flipping that privilege, based on a desired outcome. Also, remember that Harvard is a private institution.

          • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Sunday May 17, 2015 @04:47AM (#49709815) Journal

            A lot of people simply don't understand the concept of privilige and much of that is wilful. There's always a lot of noise about how we're nerds and we're not priviliged because nerds have it hard.

            I would like to assure those people that if you are a female gay black transgender nerd it would have been even harder.

            Privilige is a fairly statistical thing. It doesn't mean that you personally (e.g. a white male) muse necessarily do better than every member of some less priviliged group. It is also additive, and different privliges have different scales. It ALSO doesn't mean that you (the white male) are evil. It doesn't actually reflect on the members of a more priviliged class at all.

            For example:

            The police and justice system are institutionally racist. This makes being white a priviliged class because as a black person you're much more likely to have a less easy life by virtue of being accused of more crimes and more likely to be found guilty and then given a harsher sensence than a white person would be given.

            Rich people have privilige for incredibly obvious reasons.

            Cis people are priviliged compared to trans because apparently a lot of people really hate transgendered people and they're much more likely to be discriminated agains, beaten and have their complants ignored by the police.

            And the list goes on.

            Having various priviliges doesn't make succes guaranteed, nor does not having them guarantee failure. It does make it respectively easier or harder. It does not make a straight white cis guy evil for working his arse off to succeed. But one really ought to be aware that there are things that affect other people which make it harder. Imagine for example if you were trying to work your arse off to succeed only to be hassled by the police on the way to a job interview, or then be turned down because someone thinks you might stop to have babies at some indeterminate point in the future.

            That would really suck.

      • If the thesis is that refusing to enroll qualified black applicants in college has unfairly sabotaged their ability to compete, what is the anticipated outcome of refusing to enroll qualified Asian students?

        • what is the anticipated outcome of refusing to enroll qualified Asian students?

          They go to Yale or Princeton?

      • I'm in favor of helping impoverished Americans succeed (including those who are impoverished because of jim crow laws and slavery), but it seems focusing on college enrollment is a little late. It makes no sense to put students in a college environment where they are not capable of succeeding.

        I prefer instead to create 'bridge schools,' which give students the skills they need to succeed in college. It might be even better to focus on the problem of child poverty.
    • Isn't racial discrimination the definition of affirmative action?

      Affirmative action is believed by many to be justified to make up for past discrimination, such as by whites against African Americans. But in the past, Asian Americans never systematically discriminated against whites (in fact, the opposite was true), so there is no justification for affirmative action against Asian Americans, in favor of whites.

    • by jcr ( 53032 ) <jcr@m[ ]com ['ac.' in gap]> on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:35PM (#49708185) Journal

      Back when Kennedy coined the term "affirmative action", he was directing federal agencies to take "affirmative action to ensure that race is not a factor" in hiring decisions.

      -jcr

    • Isn't racial discrimination the definition of affirmative action? I'm not sure what makes them think they have any actionable complaints against the university.

      Not all sorts of affirmative action are legal. For example, the supreme court has ruled that quota systems are not legal [wikipedia.org], but some types, affirmative action are legal [wikipedia.org]. It's not entirely clear from the court's perspective what type of affirmative action is legal, which is why they probably have a case.

    • by fermion ( 181285 )
      The rational for AA for universities is that they have a mission to educate the leaders of tommorow for the United States and the world. Therefore every real university that I know of tries to bring in a diverse mix of cultures. That is why the labs that I learned in has Asians, whites, American black, Hispanics, Russians,Algerians, Nigerians, etc. I learned not only my hard science and computers, but also how a wide range of people lived, often in significantly different ways from myself.

      Some people d

  • It's because they can't say "Pahk the Cah At Hahvad Yahd".
  • by O('_')O_Bush ( 1162487 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:07PM (#49708041)
    "The complaint seeks a federal investigation and demands Harvard "immediately cease and desist from using stereotypes, racial biases and other discriminatory means in evaluating Asian-American applicants.""

    OR... we could just evaluate students on their merits, rather than their skin color. Remove the race/ethnicity indicators from the application forms altogether and don't make them a factor during interviews.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Suit yourself, it'll be 95% Asian / 4.9% Caucasian in no time. Then it'll be the Whites crying discrimination.

    • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:26PM (#49708139)

      Remove the race/ethnicity indicators from the application forms altogether and don't make them a factor during interviews.

      Fine with me. But people should be aware of what that will lead to. Caltech already does this. Their admission process completely ignores race. The result is that their student body is 60% Asian and less than 1% black, in a state were Asians and blacks make up a similar portion of the population.

      • by jcr ( 53032 ) <jcr@m[ ]com ['ac.' in gap]> on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:33PM (#49708169) Journal

        The result is that their student body is 60% Asian and less than 1% black, in a state were Asians and blacks make up a similar portion of the population. ..and the blacks at Caltech are those who can actually succeed there.

        -jcr

        • Pretty much my entire High School class got into U of Michigan under an older version of Affirmative Action that allowed for explicit racial preferences. You actually got points for being black, or being a white kid who went to a mostly black school (which nobody talks about, because of course I -- white boy Nick Benjamin -- got points to go to the University of Michigan, but black chicks named 'Toya clearly had no moral right to such a thing). We did fine. The black kids actually did better then the white

      • by lgw ( 121541 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:34PM (#49708181) Journal

        Sound fair to me. Only idiots and racists care about race.

      • Solution: institute class based affirmative action. Affirmative action was instituted in an age after terrible racial discrimination. I disagree with it happening now, but it was a good idea then. How do you help the unfairly disadvantaged without race based policies? Base it on something that makes clear and profound differences in one's opportunities.

        Though considering that universities like Harvard actually have legacy policies (aka affirmative action for the rich) I don't expect this anytime soon. P

        • by jcr ( 53032 )

          "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." -- H. L. Mencken.

          -jcr

        • That's actually the point of the "holistic" policies they're suing to over-turn.

          The problem is that the race of people who a) really know how to game the system to get the best college application possible and b) actually do so is overwhelmingly Asian. Plenty of white people know how, but the Asian 5-6% really includes a lot of people who treat their kid's High School career like a min/maxed D&D character. Except they don't let the kid play D&D because that doesn't look good on a college application

    • Admission to Harvard isn't a prize or reward for having good test scores and a high GPA.

      There's inherent value - both to the institution itself and to the educational community - in an institution of higher education having a student body that is highly diverse in many dimensions. Those dimensions include things like ethnicity, economic background, activism, political beliefs, religion, etc. Harvard has so many incredibly well-qualified applicants that it can afford to curate its student body as it sees fit

    • The thing you have to worry about in those cases is that you get a University where every single fucking kid is part of the upper middle class. Why?

      Because they're the people who enter 9th grade thinking about how everything the kid does will look on a college application. They're the people who find out that the only way to get all the AP classes at this particular High School is take this particular Honors Course Freshman year, and use the prerequisite to take two more Sophomore year, which qualify for th

      • Because they're the people who enter 9th grade thinking about how everything the kid does will look on a college application.

        It starts way before that. I live on a block where parents stress over the pre-school their kids get into.

        I pity the kids. Shuttled from one activity to the other when they look like they'd rather be sitting in the dirt in the backyard or just playing with some toys. And god forbid their development deviates 5% from the norm, because that's when they start them on meds.

        I can't say

  • I'm 100% against using race or gender as a first pass system for sorting HOWEVER, it's a private school, they can accept who ever they want to. If the government was flipping the bill for post secondary education then the story would be different but the second you are funded by the students, then you can the decision about which students you want to let in . If you really want to fix this issue, you need to conceil the identity of the student down to a numeric identifier.
    • by Dunbal ( 464142 ) *
      It's a private school that receives federal funding, federal loans and federal grants. If you don't want the feds to have a say then give back the money. Notwithstanding, law applies to private as well as public entities. If discrimination can be proven to a judge or jury it matters not one bit that Harvard is a private school. You think only a government employer can't refuse to hire you because you're gay, for example? The only reason it's easier to ignore the law for private institutions is because usual
    • by jcr ( 53032 )

      HOWEVER, it's a private school, they can accept who ever they want to.

      That would be true if they weren't taking tax money, but they do.

      -jcr

    • HOWEVER, it's a private school, they can accept who ever they want to. If the government was flipping the bill for post secondary education...

      One problem with that is Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and just about every other educational institution is receiving federal money so the government is footing at least part of the bill. It may not be direct but they are getting it: government backed student loans, PELL grants, research grants and let's not forget to mention tax breaks (like NO property tax) for non-profit educational institutions in many jurisdictions. You want government money and perks (tax exemptions)? You play by the government's rules

    • by Shados ( 741919 )

      Private businesses can decide who do they do business with, but there's a few things they're not allowed to discriminate against, such as gender and races. Even if they weren't taking government funds (which they are), they wouldn't be able to.

      Your local convenience store cannot refuse to sell to an asian.

      • by Khyber ( 864651 )

        "Private businesses can decide who do they do business with, but there's a few things they're not allowed to discriminate against, such as gender and races."

        This is patently false. Age discrimination happens ALL THE TIME, OVERTLY EXPRESSED even, but it's A-okay because it doesn't fucking count unless you're over the age of 40 by Federal law.

        Don't believe me? Jobrivet is one of those companies. I had a profile on the site for job applications wiped because I am over the age of 26.

    • by m00sh ( 2538182 )

      I'm 100% against using race or gender as a first pass system for sorting HOWEVER, it's a private school, they can accept who ever they want to. If the government was flipping the bill for post secondary education then the story would be different but the second you are funded by the students, then you can the decision about which students you want to let in . If you really want to fix this issue, you need to conceil the identity of the student down to a numeric identifier.

      Harvard takes a lot of government money one way or another.

      One is NSF, NIH and other research oriented grants and funds. Those funds are in some ways also designed to develop future scientists and if you're racially biasing against one group, then Harvard would be ineligible to receive any such grants.

      I know a poster long time ago said that a lot of money for Harvard comes from the alumni and the race of the people with money do not correspond to the race of the potential student body. Before the immigr

    • I'm reasonably sure that Harvard students are qualified for government-backed student loans, which means that the federal government is, in fact, indirectly paying for those student's educations.
  • by ChrisMaple ( 607946 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:37PM (#49708199)
    He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.
  • by Shadow of Eternity ( 795165 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:38PM (#49708211)

    I'm just trying to keep track since first they weren't white, then they were white when everyone wanted to attack the tech industry and particularly google for being "too white", and now apparently they're not white again. Is there a newsletter I can subscribe to? Maybe a calendar or twitter feed that keeps us all up to date on who's "white" or not today?

  • by Anonymous Coward

    According to Hillel (http://www.hillel.org), Jews are 25% of the undergrads, and 63% of graduate students.

    It's not whites crowding out qualified Asian-Americans, it's Jews.

  • by melted ( 227442 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:40PM (#49708231) Homepage

    Someone is about to learn about Simpson's paradox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]

  • by scottbomb ( 1290580 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:42PM (#49708239) Journal

    Yes, it's news. Yes, it's probably important. But WHY IN THE HELL is it on Slashdot? It's crap like this that keep my away.

  • Systemic (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Livius ( 318358 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @07:42PM (#49708241)

    If there are racist recruiters, there should be little difficulty tracking them down and firing them.

    However, if there is racism, it is presumably systemic bias that is inadvertent and unconscious and there is no single person who is actually acting in a prejudiced way. Telling them 'cease and desist' is ineffective.

    It's quite conceivable that there is discrimination that is not based on race but only loosely correlated with it, perhaps actually due to income, culture, or command of English, which might or might not be part of a legitimate application process.

    Hopefully Harvard has a few people with knowledge of statistics to figure it out.

  • I see the problem: they are thinner on average than other ethnic groups and therefore perform weaker at football. As a result they cannot enter University college.
  • Acceptance to universities should not be judged on anything but scholastic merit. I would even argue against using sports as a basis for acceptance, but we know that will never happen.
  • by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @08:51PM (#49708489)
    and damned if you don't There are only so many seats. They either try to distribute those as evenly as they can ( affirmative action ), or they fill it up with just the best candidates ( read that, test scores ) where they later catch nothing but hell because their student population isn't diverse enough. :| So they get hit with discrimination claims either way. Just from different groups. What this really shows is that not all colleges are equal. A Law degree from X is not the same as a Law degree from Y. So the folks complaining about discrimination are themselves enabling it, just later on down the road. In case I lost you with that last sentence here's how I explain it. Folks go to the Ivy League schools why ? Because they know top tier employers will choose students from those schools over other qualified candidates who didn't go to an Ivy League school. Two perfect candidates for the job, one with Ivy League credentials, one without. Who do you think will get picked up ? :| ( and everyone knows it, thus the competition to get in ) While not race based, it's still discrimination based on school reputation. Were all schools funded and staffed equally, this becomes a non-issue.
  • Harvard would rather not have 1500 spots of every 1600 member freshman class be the sons and daughters of mainland Chinese billionaires, that's why.
    • by Trongy ( 64652 )

      The complaint is on behalf of Asian-Americans, that is American citizens of asian race or ethnicity.

      If the 1500 children of mainland Chinese billionaires are actually American citizens, they should not be discriminated against.

  • Harvard does give extra credit for children of Harvard graduates and they surely are also appreciative of wealthy graduates who donate large sums who have sons and daughters seeking admission. Also athletes may get some extra consideration and some areas of the world emphasize sports other than what we play in America. Factors like that may well completely explain the apparent disparity in admissions. There is also the matter of comparing grades when the quality of high schools in foreign nations may no
  • An Asian-American argues in favor of admission policies that disadvantage Asian-Americans. Whether you agree, it's worth thinking about.

    http://askakorean.blogspot.com... [blogspot.com]

  • A part of a college education can be meeting and interacting with people of different cultures and backgrounds. If a private school wants to have this type of culture they should be free to create it by whatever means they determine is best for their school. You have no right to attend the school.

    Now if this was a public school they might have an argument.

  • So the main complaint seems to be that admitted Asians have significantly higher test scores than their counterparts. This would be slam-dunk evidence if really good SAT scores were all it took to get into Harvard, but they aren't and never have been. They are going to have to go into a lot more in-depth with their analysis to prove their point.

    Also, to echo a point made on Reddit, haven't we been saying for years that standardized test scores are not good indicators of performance? Why in this case are w

  • by Applehu Akbar ( 2968043 ) on Saturday May 16, 2015 @11:28PM (#49709031)

    ...One Wednesday last July, and I noticed something: a large percentage of the people on campus were Asian. I have no idea which were students and which were just other visitors, but on that day at least the campus teemed with Asians, many in large groups.

    Social justice warriors, go ahead and hate white people and all that "colonialist," "imperialist" civilization has wrought. I saw our worthy successors that day in Cambridge, and when you try to take them on you will wish you still had our compliant legal system to use as your playground. Asians will build their bullet trains and their giant telescopes wherever they want to, totally ignoring whatever standards of political correctness you have been used to imposing on everyone else. Long may they rule.

  • by eluusive ( 642298 ) on Sunday May 17, 2015 @12:32AM (#49709187)
    *All* Asians make up ~5.6% of the population of the United States, but they make up 20% of those admitted to Harvard. Discrimination?! https://college.harvard.edu/ad... [harvard.edu] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D... [wikipedia.org]
  • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Sunday May 17, 2015 @12:44AM (#49709221) Journal

    I'm just floating a theory here, so please don't pounce all over me.

    For hundreds of years, getting into the better jobs meant passing written exams in China. Thus, the population may have been genetically filtered (bred) to be better test takers.

  • I don't get why people are basically saying 'fuck you, tough shit'.

    These are kids who worked their asses off to get into college and have to OUTPERFORM peers to to get into the same schools. This is not the case of an under qualified or underachieving person getting in simply because of their race (which I never liked), but getting pushed out even though THEY'RE BETTER CANDIDATES because of their race.

    How does anyone think this is fair or just? Jesuz fuck people, imagine if that was your kid....

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