Struggling University of Phoenix Lays Off 900 133
An anonymous reader writes: The struggles facing for-profit colleges continue. The University of Phoenix announced poor quarterly earnings yesterday, and the institution has laid off 900 workers since September. Enrollment is down 14% since last year, and the CEO of its parent company, Apollo Education Group, says enrollment is likely to drop from 206,000 to about 150,000 next year. Apollo's stock has lost more than half its value since the beginning of the year. "Tighter regulations on for-profits and the Obama administration's push to make community college free top the list of headwinds. And non-profit universities have entered the online education space, where for-profit schools once held center stage."
Johnny can't get a job (Score:2)
So Jane says no thanks to phoenix.
Re:Johnny can't get a job (Score:5, Interesting)
Have you actually priced these guys? My ex-wife used them back in 2001-2003 to finish up a BSN degree, and paid an obscene amount of cash each month to do it. They also adopted that neat little trick the state colleges have of requiring 'bridge classes' and of discounting certain courses taken (in favor of pricier ones they provide), so sometimes you're taking superfluous classes and in some cases re-taking classes you'd already taken.
One thing I do wonder about though... most of the oft-touted 'free' community college courses are more towards getting an Associates' degree, whereas Phoenix' big advertising push is for folks who want to convert their 2-year degree into a 4-year one, or to convert a Bachelors' into a Masters'.
Personally, I think their biggest competition is the recent growth of small state-accredited colleges going online, expanding their presence, and pushing to provide the same thing Phoenix does. Many of these colleges have provided this sort of thing remotely (albeit not online, but by 'traveling prof') to military members for decades, but have recently decided to get a piece of the civilian market now.
Re: (Score:2)
Which is funny, 'cause I'm converting an AS to a BAS via UCF ... a Real Accredited University, and for cheaper. Sure it was quicker for me to also complete a General Sciences AA first and then hit UCF, but if I hadn't it would've only added 4 extra gen ed classes to my "need to take" list.
Re: (Score:2)
it seems like, since UofP started, a lot more Unis have upped their game for online-classes to get their standard degree. The local area Uni here let's you do a huge amount of online work for many bachelors and masters degrees at north carolina in-state tuition pricing. I finished my bachelors that way for a couple of reasons and had some pretty good classes that way.
Re:Johnny can't get a job (Score:4, Informative)
it seems like, since UofP started, a lot more Unis have upped their game for online-classes to get their standard degree.
I hate to spam, but here is something you need to look at if you're looking to get an accredited online degree: www.wgu.edu. Western Governors University is affordable: $3000 per 6 month term, where you can do as many credits as you can. I got my MSc in 18 months, for 9k. Everything was online, except graduation, which was a big party in Utah.
5 Stars, strongly recommend.
Re: (Score:2)
I hate to spam, but here is something you need to look at if you're looking to get an accredited online degree: www.wgu.edu. Western Governors University is affordable: $3000 per 6 month term, where you can do as many credits as you can. I got my MSc in 18 months, for 9k. Everything was online, except graduation, which was a big party in Utah.
I knew there was going to be a catch.
Re:Johnny can't get a job (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you actually priced these guys? My ex-wife used them back in 2001-2003 to finish up a BSN degree, and paid an obscene amount of cash each month to do it. They also adopted that neat little trick the state colleges have of requiring 'bridge classes' and of discounting certain courses taken (in favor of pricier ones they provide), so sometimes you're taking superfluous classes and in some cases re-taking classes you'd already taken.
One thing I do wonder about though... most of the oft-touted 'free' community college courses are more towards getting an Associates' degree, whereas Phoenix' big advertising push is for folks who want to convert their 2-year degree into a 4-year one, or to convert a Bachelors' into a Masters'.
Personally, I think their biggest competition is the recent growth of small state-accredited colleges going online, expanding their presence, and pushing to provide the same thing Phoenix does. Many of these colleges have provided this sort of thing remotely (albeit not online, but by 'traveling prof') to military members for decades, but have recently decided to get a piece of the civilian market now.
The thing is, what matters isn't the final bill. What matters, in recent years, has been the apparent short-term affordability of such institutions.
Two things have been happening in higher education in the last 15 years. One, a recession drove many people out of the work force, and a lot of those people instead turned to higher education while they were idling as a way to improve their marketability and also kind of hit the 'pause' button on working until things improved. And two, most of those people did it by taking on student debt. For-profit schools flourished during this time, because they understood that the name of the game to growing their enrollments was at least as much about how to finance the education as it was about the nature of the education itself.
But now, two other things are happening that counteract each of those effects. One, the job market is growing steadily, and even more importantly, people are returning to the work force. That's how it's possible for more and more net job creation to take place, and yet for unemployment (the number of people *looking for work* who are unemployed) to rise at the same time. And two, everyone has suddenly caught on to the fact that people are racking up massive amounts of debt to finance these classes, without really gaining all that much in the way of job opportunity. So the drive towards education using this model fades, and a counterforce starts pushing away from it.
Really, this was inevitable...it's almost like there was a "higher education bubble" that is bursting as we watch. Instead of it being funded by subprime mortgages and shady income verification, it has been funded by aggressive student loan processes and overstated promises by many institutions.
College != Jobs (Score:4)
The problem in the US is the impression You go to School then you go to College with the college degree you can get a good job.
The marketing for the the For Profit takes advantage of this, and tries to make a Job focuses curriculum. But because employers are expecting a college degree, there is a bunch of other classes and stuff that is needed to take, which overall doesn't help out that much.
The traditional colleges, may have their marketing team say this will get you a good job, once you get into the school it is the impression "College is for learning, not job training"
The real solution is to give a better status of vocational training. So someone who wants a job in a particular field can get job training for that field. It isn't necessary for a Computer Science Degree to be a programmer. Also a Computer Science Degree shouldn't need to focus so much on programming, but more on the abstract concepts, that we normally wont get to until grad school.
College should be for learning. We should have a better quality and more positive few towards vocational schools for the Job training.
Re:College != Jobs (Score:5, Interesting)
The State of Utah did this back in 2000 -ish, by converting their technical (ATE) schools into campuses for the then newly-formed Utah College of Applied Technology. [ucat.edu] UCAT is fully accredited and on the state Board of Regents, but focused exclusively on 2-year Associates' degrees in vocational fields - CompSci (basically programming and systems/network administration), Nursing (up to RN licensing), Diesel Mechanics, Culinary Arts, a basic Business degree, CAD/CAM, and even a Cosmetology certificate (and subsequent state license).
You could then take that AAT degree, and convert it to a 4-year degree at any Utah state college (in fact, each UCAT campus was partnered with the nearest state college - The campus I taught at was allied with Weber State University in Ogden, and I was considered to be faculty and taught a few courses there, albeit while still on the UCAT payroll).
The cool part was that high school students could attend as early as their Junior year, and could, if they applied themselves, have a 2-year degree less than 6 months after graduating high school - all on the government dime, gratis. The classrooms were a mixture of AP-level high school kids and adults, and held day and evening courses.
Re: (Score:2)
Um... for what jobs? (Score:2)
The real solution is protectionism and an end to the H1-B visa program so you don't need a 4 year degree to do something that can be learned in an afternoon. As long as companies use that degree qualification as a quick and easy way to get H1-Bs for free you'll have kid's drowning themselves in debt out of desperation.
Re:Just to be Clear... (Score:5, Informative)
These private collages, such as university of phoenix, result in 90% of the student loan defaults while they service less than 10% of students. That staggering percentage is why the Government is going after these institutions. There are MANY private schools that aren't targeted because they don't have these problems.
Re:Just to be Clear... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Meanwhile the not-for-profit ones continue to grow their endowments unchecked but that isn't considered "profit".
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
A diploma from an Ivy League college is valuable. Some people will get the diploma and still screw up, but nothing's perfect.
It's hard to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt at a state school, since they don't typically charge that much. Also, a state institution diploma is worth having, although not as valuable as the Ivy League diploma.
A diploma from one of the for-profit universities is typically less valuable, and the institution will do its best to get as much money as possible.
The les
Low profit? Double the tuition! (Score:5, Insightful)
This is how we got into this mess - guaranteed loans and inability to discard them in bankruptcy removed all competitive pressures on price.
Re:Low profit? Double the tuition! (Score:4, Interesting)
Pheonix is a mail order degree institute. Many people bought into their hype and trained/purchased their MBAs from this outfit. Once they have their paperwork, the new MBA remains unable to get a top job, being stuck doing office admin and banking crap. Why? Because no one takes this university seriously.
As you almost catch, it's a facility designed, not for edumacation, but to lend money at high rates.
Re: (Score:1)
BS on the Obama comment (Score:5, Insightful)
>> Obama administration's push to make community college free top the list of headwinds
I lean conservative, but I call BS here. Obama's push was dead on arrival and largely forgotten.
>> And non-profit universities have entered the online education space, where for-profit schools once held center stage.
I'm not even sure I believe this. To save money and graduate faster, I picked up many of my 100's and 200's via "telecourses" I purchased through my local community college...and that was in the early 1990s.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
I didn't go to college to gain knowledge, I went to get educated. As a teacher so eloquently put it, anyone with internet access has access to more knowledge than they know what to do with.
I agree. However, the knowledge you gained from the Internet may or may not be correct though...
False "facts" (Score:2)
However, the knowledge you gained from the Internet may or may not be correct though...
I think it is probably comparable to the accuracy level you'll get from a lot of teachers. I couldn't begin to enumerate the number of bogus "facts" I heard from teachers over the years.
Re: (Score:1)
" I went to get educated."
So, then you failed.
"Went to get an education"
"Went for an education"
"Went to be educated".
Pick one.
"Get" is a verb. "Educated" is also verb. Proper simple sentence structure is Subject-Verb-Object [about.com], not Subject-Verb-Verb
So you are essentially saying you "went to get gotten", which you evidently were.
Pedantic, I know, but anyone throwing around smack about how smart they are should know better.
Re: (Score:3)
" I went to get educated."
So, then you failed.
"Went to get an education" "Went for an education" "Went to be educated".
Pick one.
"Get" is a verb. "Educated" is also verb. Proper simple sentence structure is Subject-Verb-Object [about.com], not Subject-Verb-Verb
So you are essentially saying you "went to get gotten", which you evidently were.
Pedantic, I know, but anyone throwing around smack about how smart they are should know better.
Educated is also an adjective, as in "an educated person". "I became [adjective]" is a valid sentence with valid structure and "get" in the sense of the GP is a colloqial form of "become". You can "get taller", "get fatter", "get healtier". And, as I have just shown, even pedants can "get educated".
Just look at the second example here [englishclub.com].
Re: (Score:2)
"Get" is a verb. "Educated" is also verb. Proper simple sentence structure is Subject-Verb-Object [about.com], not Subject-Verb-Verb
Educated is an adjective you moron. Just like bored, it is formed from the past participle of a verb.
College is to get a diploma. Education is a bonus (Score:5, Interesting)
I didn't go to college to gain knowledge, I went to get educated.
Let's be honest. You (and I) went to get a diploma and you hoped to learn some hopefully useful stuff along the way. I actually work in the field my degrees are in and I use only a tiny fraction of what they taught. Did they teach me how to think? Debatable. How to work? Already had that before I got to college. Impart some knowledge? Some though not always what I really needed and frequently stuff that was pointless or trivial. Not saying it was a complete waste of time (it wasn't) but calling it "getting educated" versus "gaining knowledge" misses the mark.
No, I went to college to get a diploma so I could get considered for jobs. Fortunately I learned some neat stuff along the way but the cost/benefit for what I got beyond the diploma was WAY out of whack. Seven years of classes for me and over $100K in debt is pretty stiff given that the stuff you really are going to need when you get out you'll mostly learn on the job anyway. Take away the diploma and the doors that opens and it really would not have been worth it.
As a teacher so eloquently put it, anyone with internet access has access to more knowledge than they know what to do with.
I prefer the one I heard which was "Don't confuse your schooling with your education". I learned more from projects outside of class that I never got a single credit-hour for than from all my formal classes combined. I worked through college and I guarantee you I learned more from the jobs than from the classes.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
adjective choice (Score:4, Interesting)
One wonders whether it's the "for-profit" nature of the institution, or its "lack of government subsidy" that puts it at relative risk.
Re: (Score:2)
I presume the "for-profit" is actually related to their IRS status and not their overall financial goals. Most colleges are (IRS recognized) non-profits, though they pay high-6 and 7 figure salaries to top officers and have endowments in the billions.
Re: (Score:2)
for-profits either have owners (if they are private) or shareholders (if they are public) who expect a return on their investment each quarter. so for-profits make short term decisions to maximize profits. Non-profits don't have this pressure, so they can make decisions that are in the best interests of the institution and possibly the students.
Re: (Score:1)
... speaking as someone who works in higher ed I have to take exception with your last statement. The non-profits may not have the same pressure, but the (big money) decisions are made to benefit the administration, not the institution and never the students. They couldn't care less about the students, other than the enrollment number. And if that isn't what they want they flounder. Anything from "must pass everyone" pressure on the academics to creative statistics "year-on-year we have more students due to
For-profit versus non-profit (Score:3)
I presume the "for-profit" is actually related to their IRS status and not their overall financial goals.
For-Profit means that the organization has shareholders and any profits can be distributed without regard to the mission of the organization.
Most colleges are (IRS recognized) non-profits, though they pay high-6 and 7 figure salaries to top officers and have endowments in the billions.
Non profit doesn't mean they don't make a profit. It means they don't distribute their surplus revenues (basically profit) to shareholders but rather put those surplus revenues back into the organization's mission.
Re: (Score:2)
Or hoard it for the rainy day that will never come because they can lobby for government handouts far better than the for-profits simply because the are non-profits and "profits" are evil in our society now.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
I can not speak for most but MIT's endowment was over 12 billion last year. I do not recall how much over 12 billion it was but it was over that. They still wanted money.
Re: (Score:2)
That is a general argument against most not-for-profit organizations. Because they NFP do seem to spend a lot of time and resources towards collecting money, and investing their "Excess Revenue" into sources where they can bring in more revenue.
For Not for profits do have to deal with being under a fine tooth comb and do not enjoy the same freedoms a for-profit will.
Paperwork burden (Score:2)
For Not for profits do have to deal with being under a fine tooth comb and do not enjoy the same freedoms a for-profit will.
I've been on the board of directors of several 501C3 non-profits. I also am an accountant specializing in corporate finance. I assure you that in general the paperwork burden for most non-profits is less than or no worse than that for corporations. In my experience it's generally been much less especially if the non-profit is quite small. For a large non-profit it's generally comparable to a for-profit business of similar size.
Re: (Score:2)
One wonders whether it's the "for-profit" nature of the institution, or its "lack of government subsidy" that puts it at relative risk.
It is neither, UoP is at relative risk because it provides little to no value to students. The only value it provides is giving a degree that can pass through an HR filter, and this usually only works when the filter doesn't pay attention to the institution name. Anyone willing to hire a UoP graduate is likely willing to hire someone without a degree as well.
The majority of government subsidies all private colleges receive today are in the form of government backed student loans. This is probably the majori
Re: (Score:2)
"If the student defaults, the institution isn't on the hook."
Well sure, the institution has delivered what it agreed to. The loan was not from the institution but from a bank - or the feds, with their own perverse incentives.
"we should probably cut back on the for-profit college companies"
What, by outlawing them? No, even those people involved should be free to pursue their happiness.
Good (Score:1)
Phoenix and other for profit schools are nothing more than diploma mills. They need to die.
Re:Good (Score:4, Insightful)
Agree. Any employer who sees the name "University of Phoenix," or "Devry," or "ITT" etc. on a resume is going to throw that shit right in the trash.
Re: (Score:1)
Yes. You're better off with *just* the experience. Putting one of these "colleges" on your resume is a big red flag.
Re: (Score:2)
State universities are normally funded from a different source and are less dependent on students' money.
Re: (Score:3)
Phoenix and other for profit schools are nothing more than diploma mills. They need to die.
And this is different from state run schools how?
If you actually attended both UoP and any state school, you would understand the difference. I already was self educated so the lack of rigor wasn't a problem (I literally just needed the piece of paper / diploma), but it was truly a waste of time for anyone trying to learn a trade.
To put it in context, here are the 5 assignments I had in my second semester SQL class at UoP. They constituted almost 100% of the grade (the rest was just participation in forums). One assignment was due each week of the 5 week
Re: (Score:1)
To put it in context, here are the 5 assignments I had in my second semester SQL class at UoP. They constituted almost 100% of the grade (the rest was just participation in forums). One assignment was due each week of the 5 week class.
1) Create a database (literally just a CREATE DATABASE command).
2) Create three tables
3) Create foreign key relationships between the tables
4) Populate the tables with data from a CSV file
5) Create a report listing the data ina tabular format
And the sad part is that most of the students probably still had to cheat.
Re: (Score:2)
I wandered into my professor's room one day to ask him about his thoughts about World of Wacraft's database. He to
Re: (Score:2)
They needed 900 people to print out fake diplomas? (Score:5, Funny)
Couldn't they just go to Kinkos?
A corrupt company stuggling. Boo hoo. (Score:5, Insightful)
The struggles facing for-profit colleges continue. The University of Phoenix announced poor quarterly earnings yesterday
Cry me a river. These are companies that prey on people who are financially unsophisticated and often have no business being in college. (No disrespect intended but not everyone is college material or is ready for it even if they are) They push huge amounts of debt on people ill prepared to deal with it and provide a shoddy facsimile of an education. No employer is impressed by a degree from these degree factories because they know the "schools" are third rate at best.
Re: (Score:2)
The struggles facing for-profit colleges continue. The University of Phoenix announced poor quarterly earnings yesterday
Cry me a river. These are companies that prey on people who are financially unsophisticated and often have no business being in college. (No disrespect intended but not everyone is college material or is ready for it even if they are) They push huge amounts of debt on people ill prepared to deal with it and provide a shoddy facsimile of an education. No employer is impressed by a degree from these degree factories because they know the "schools" are third rate at best.
Way to paint the whole group with the same brush. That's ALWAYS the best path to the truth.
Show me a counter example (Score:2)
Way to paint the whole group with the same brush. That's ALWAYS the best path to the truth.
Point me at an example of a for-profit school that is not a good approximation of my description of them. Perhaps there is some for-profit college that is doing a spectacular job but I've certainly never heard of one.
I've actually lectured at several of them so I'm speaking from direct experience. I've also as an employer seen the quality of graduates they generally produce during the hiring process and let's just say I'm not impressed.
Re: (Score:2)
It doesn't matter whether you are impressed, it matters if they are providing an education at least as good as their peers, in this context
No excuse for fraud (Score:3)
It'll take a generation to get online education up to snuff, getting the curricula, controls, and individualized instruction in place.
Fine. Let's assume that is true even though I don't really buy that argument. That still is no excuse for scamming a bunch of people into taking on crushing debt while providing no meaningful education nor a credible diploma from a respected institution. Hell, many of them aren't even accredited. Even if they haven't figured all the details out that is NO excuse for the fraud that these institutions are committing on thousands of people.
Re:A corrupt company stuggling. Boo hoo. (Score:5, Interesting)
University of Phoenix once offered me a part time position teaching an online Statistics course. I have no background in Statistics and told them so. No problem, they said, as they'd give me the course materials.
They wanted to pay be $500 for a one term (semester?) course with 40 people in it. I don't remember what the students were paying, but I do remember that what they were offering me was only a teensy tiny part of it.
They also informed me that I could not fail anyone, nor could I give less than a B to more than 10% of the students, and no less than an A to 70% of the students.
I passed and now consider UOP degrees to be worth the paper they're printed on and not much else.
Re: (Score:2)
What's sad is that UOP really could have done it! If they offered actual counseling guidance, and curricula that didn't just suck, and made sure that their clients passed classes with rigor, they could have *easily* made a profitable college with good reviews and earned trust.
Instead, they violated that trust, and probably deserve to be shut down.
Re: (Score:2)
What's sad is that UOP really could have done it! If they offered actual counseling guidance, and curricula that didn't just suck, and made sure that their clients passed classes with rigor, they could have *easily* made a profitable college with good reviews and earned trust.
But....but....that would mean less profit!
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly!
Not that many of the "not for profit" colleges aren't guilty too. But most of these for-profit colleges just don't provide much value to the students. Years ago, my ex-wife attended ITT Tech for a while, thinking she wanted to go into Electrical Engineering. The whole thing was a disaster. She wound up hugely in debt after only a couple of semesters, and eventually decided the program wasn't for her. Then, she realized the credits earned there were basically worthless, trying to transfer them elsew
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly!
Not that many of the "not for profit" colleges aren't guilty too. But most of these for-profit colleges just don't provide much value to the students. Years ago, my ex-wife attended ITT Tech for a while, thinking she wanted to go into Electrical Engineering. The whole thing was a disaster. She wound up hugely in debt after only a couple of semesters, and eventually decided the program wasn't for her. Then, she realized the credits earned there were basically worthless, trying to transfer them elsewhere. So it was just thousands and thousands of dollars down the drain.
In their defense, they do now point out that "not all credits may transfer". To me this is just a red flag that no other school considers their classes as worth anything.
Re:A corrupt company stuggling. Boo hoo. (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair, most employers are also third rate at best and will end up staffed with third-rate employees because first-grade ones require first-grade pay and job. It's the pathological refusal to admit mediocrity is okay that causes the whole student debt crisis, since companies dream of being the next Google without any intent to invest anything towards that. It also leads to a cynical workforce that ignores even sensible corporate policies due to having witnessed megalomania and utter disconnect from reality too often.
Work all too often resembles an absurd farce where everyone lies, everyone knows everyone lies, everyone knows that everyone knows that everyone lies, and so on (my personal pet peeve is "zero incidence culture", where no incident is acceptable, thus people wait until work is finished before going to see a doctor if they get hurt to avoid getting punished for costing management their safety bonuses, leading to more sick days and sometimes mortal danger). They go through the motions anyway, since it's a kind of ritual meant to give something that theoretically exists only as legal fiction a palpable presence. The problem is, that presence is all too often heavy and oppressive, a kind of vampire sucking life out of its victims to sustain its own.
Good. (Score:3)
These universities only exist to suck money from the department of education, and have nothing to do with actually educating or producing people with skills.
(traditional schools and their palatial grounds and constant build projects are an entirely different topi.)
Re: (Score:3)
Traditional schools have the problem that they still think employers want workers who are well grounded in theory. Current employers want cogs that can be shoved into an organization and start making them money immediately; there's no room for the big picture. What employers want is fresh graduates with 3 years' experience that they can't get while they're in school; at the very least they need practical, marketable skills. Going to college and getting a bachelors' degree used to be about getting educate
Re: (Score:2)
Traditional schools have the problem that they still think employers want workers who are well grounded in theory.
In my experience, universities (at least, the better universities) do not think this. Rather, they are pretty well aware what employers want, but they don't cater to it because they are not vocational training schools. I think they have a reasonable point; it is the employers' fault for demanding unnecessary liberal arts degrees, not Harvard's fault for refusing to turn into a vo-tech.
Re: (Score:2)
Of course it's the employers' fault, that I think goes without saying. But, until people stop needing jobs, they hold all the cards and can do pretty much whatever the fuck they want.
So, universities will continue to crank out students that aren't employable, and employers will be able to whine about no qualified graduates.
Harvard is a bad example IMHO. When you get a degree from Harvard, it's not the diploma or the education that matter, it's the network. It's the brand. Put "Harvard" on your resume an
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Such as...
Seriously, even STEM graduates can't find jobs these days. Employers whine about a shortage of STEM workers, but it's demonstrably not true. Schools are putting out twice as many STEM grads as there are job openings. What the employers really want is cheap foreign workers, or to pay STEM grads about half what they should get and make them do the work of four people.
No, the only degree with a "proven track record of job availability" is Time Travel Engineering, which allows you to get the 3 year
Rumors and whisperings (Score:2)
I don't want to defame UoP, so I'll say that I've heard from a large number of sources that this institution has come to represent everything wrong with for-profit education, i.e. complete lack of quality in offerings leading to useless certifications, watered-down assessments so that "everyone passes," and shady applications and loan-mongering to skim the most revenue possible from unaware students.
Now that community and mainstream colleges are legitimately coming on board with better online offerings, it
Re: (Score:2)
I don't want to defame UoP, so I'll say that I've heard from a large number of sources that this institution has come to represent everything wrong with for-profit education, i.e. complete lack of quality in offerings leading to useless certifications, watered-down assessments so that "everyone passes," and shady applications and loan-mongering to skim the most revenue possible from unaware students.
Now that community and mainstream colleges are legitimately coming on board with better online offerings, it couldn't be that UoP is being squeezed out by the competition? ...or so I've heard.
Yeah - but.. if they had a football team they'd be making millions.
Go doggies! (one of you is destined to become Governor)
Re: (Score:1)
Hmm... Maybe they should have one of those fantasy football teams?
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm... Maybe they should have one of those fantasy football teams?
Too late - they just laid off the coach.
Re: (Score:3)
As someone who did attend, you are correct that the degrees given by UoP are worthless as anything but a way to get past HR resume filters.
I had no other option in 2009 other than an online degree because I needed to work full time. Standard brick and mortar schools didn't offer online or night school BS programs in anything but a handful of degrees (oddly enough none of them IT related). Today that is no longer the case, so there really is no reason to attend UoP anymore. They simply prey on people with un
Re: (Score:2)
I had no other option in 2009 other than an online degree because I needed to work full time.
A failing of society. Around here, non-trad students with no degrees get paid to go to a State University. I first found out about this when a 30 year old father of two children was going to class full time and working part-time told me the state was paying him just enough to keep going to school and keep his home.
I wouldn't hire anyone with a U. of Phoenix degree (Score:1)
It screams "Hey! I'm a moron!"
Re: (Score:1)
It screams "Hey! I'm a moron!"
Or, Hey, I got my degree overseas while in the military in 90s.
Re: (Score:2)
[Have a UoP degree] screams "Hey! I'm a moron!"
UoP degree holding candidates should simply be treated the same as self taught candidates. Up until recently there were no other options to get BS degrees online or at night school for the vast majority of majors, so students were forced to attend diploma mills like UoP or Devry. To get past HR filters schools like UoP were the only choice for many people.
I got my BS degree from UoP for these very reasons, but I followed it up with a MS degree from a real school. Even the MS degree wasn't that useful for so
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe the laid off workers need a better education (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I know a place where they can get one.
The School of Hard Knocks?
Too many out of work people with degrees (Score:2)
The big universities can't even claim to get you work with a degree so why would you slap down that kind of money for a degree from what most consider an over priced diploma mill?
best news in a while.... (Score:3)
Hallelujah about friggin time.
The University of Phoenix and others of it's ilk are the proverbial scum of academia, the quicker they cease to exist the better for us, our culture and our society.
According to recent reportin (google NPR) UoP, suckered returning GI's from Afghanistan and Iraq out of more than $1,000,000,000.00 in GI benfits yielding a graduation rate of 7.3%! and for those lucky enough to get a "degree" vast numbers had to find out out the hard way that the accreditation that these "degrees" afforded were basically worthless. Spamming millions via email with their scams, hosting events at military bases to "advise" future students of how wonderful their shit is, these parasitic fuckwads have set back the cause of higher education multiple generations. Who amongst us would even council the youth of today to pursue a higher education? Now before you think I am not being fair to the well intentioned souls who work for UoP let me state this: As long as the federal student loan system/GI benefits system are in bed with the major financial institutions, creating a system where the US government earns 9 figure sums per year, while indebting countless millions of people to the tune of $1,000,000,000,000.00 can we really be mad at those capitalist "entrepreneurs" who know how to take advantage of a system designed to fuck millions with permanent indenture while at the same enriching exactly those who least need enrichment in our society?
Fuck for profit "universities".(*note for-profit != private, other criteria is needed to weed out the parasitic scum from genuine institutions of higher learning )
Fuck the federal student loan program.
Fuck the congresscritters responsible for this shit.
Re: (Score:2)
While I agree with the sentiment lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Fuck the federal student loan program.
As someone who used student loans (both private and federal) to get a B.S. in CS, the federal student loans were very helpful and were reasonable. Some of these changes had occurred recently, but loans that originated in 2005/6 were eligible of consolidation to take advantage of new government proposals (special loan consolidation in 2011/2012 iirc). These consolidations and proposals that passed lowered interest rates, payback
Stanford iTunesU iOS class - FOR FREE (Score:2)
Are Walden and Capella having the same problem? (Score:3)
Good, this needs to happen (Score:2)
One of the problems with the for-profit college market is that they prey on unsophisticated people. Corinthian Colleges was just forced to shut down by the Dept. of Education because their graduation and employment rates were so abysmal. Unfortunately, they know non-traditional students often see education as the only way out of a bad situation, and know exactly how to take advantage of that.
A lot of people say it's the fault of the student loan program, but the reality is that these institutions are simply
Good Riddence! (Score:2)
I went to UOP for 1 year (at the UOP in Denver, CO) - at the time they were the only college I found that had "adult education" curriculum's. Once Regis University came out with their's I dropped UOP like a bad habit! They were a TOTAL waste of my time and $$$! They were forever losing the tuition checks sent to them and always asked me to have the bank re-send them. I took one computer science course where the instructor took the WHOLE class time to talk about his theory about what happened to the Dinosau
community college / hs needs a trades track as wel (Score:1)
community college / hs needs a pure trades track as well as a mixed trades / more college like track think stuff like IT / programming (does not need the full CS) and the pure college track. Maybe even a law / med school track (just to cut time down they are in school so long that they should cut out 1 year of filler / fluff from there class load)
I say at the very least move the gen ed that are in to days college in the new system not all tracks need the full load load of to days gen ed's yes some is need