Google's Android Pay Mobile Payments Service Arrives In US 101
An anonymous reader writes: Google is rolling out its digital payment system Android Pay in the U.S. today. The new system will allow users to make payments in stores using their phone. Existing users of the Google Wallet app can access Android Pay through an update. According to the blog post: "Android Pay works with all NFC-enabled Android devices (running KitKat 4.4+), on any mobile carrier, at every tap and pay ready location across the US. Android Pay will support credit and debit cards from the four major payment networks: American Express, Discover, MasterCard and Visa. These cards are issued by many of the most popular US banks and credit unions, including American Express, Bank of America, Discover, Navy Federal Credit Union, PNC, Regions Bank, USAA, and U.S. Bank. Wells Fargo will be available in the next few days, Capital One and Citi are coming soon, and we're adding new banks all the time."
So how is this different (Score:5, Informative)
This sounds like Google Wallet, with a different name. Same technology.
What is new?
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It's a new piece of software, a new income to deal with in accounting, a new security vector, a new expense, and all in all, a new headache that will bring merchants little to no added value. It's going to die just like all of the new payment methods that have come out recently and are due to come out so
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Except as far as the merchant is concerned, it is no different than a regular NFC card transaction, so no new headaches, no new expenses, no security worries for anyone except Visa/Mastercard/etc. Their current contactless terminals will work with out changes.
Re: So how is this different (Score:2)
I've recently moved to Denmark, and am surprised how popular paying "by mobile" (by online banking, using a mobile app) is. And that is a new, incompatible method.
Places like hot dog stands accept it, or a bar for a $3 drink.
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Except as far as the merchant is concerned, it is no different than a regular NFC card transaction, so no new headaches, no new expenses, no security worries for anyone except Visa/Mastercard/etc. Their current contactless terminals will work with out changes.
I'm a merchant. Our payment terminal has a big sticker on the bottom saying "Triple DES" like that's a good thing.
64 bit block sizes! The 1970s called and they want their bad crypto back.
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It's a new piece of software, a new income to deal with in accounting, a new security vector, a new expense, and all in all, a new headache that will bring merchants little to no added value. It's going to die just like all of the new payment methods that have come out recently and are due to come out so
Not to mention that I'd as soon sweep tiger cages for a living as do financial transactions through Google.
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Not to mention that I'd as soon sweep tiger cages for a living as do financial transactions through Google.
Why? Do you think it would be worse than paying by presenting the plaintext credentials on a magstripe card through a terminal that uses ancient crypto to communicate the transaction over the open internet?
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Apple Pay was a copy of Google Wallet. Now you are claiming that Google is copying Apple Pay by putting out an updated Google Wallet? Your logic makes my head hurt.
When Apple Pay came out, CVS stopped accepting Google Wallet transactions, and enabled Apple Pay, which always bothered me, as both are NFC, so it was only a power play.
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When Apple Pay came out, CVS stopped accepting Google Wallet transactions, and enabled Apple Pay, which always bothered me, as both are NFC, so it was only a power play.
I don't think you have that quite right [forbes.com].
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You're reading it wrong. You don't understand how Google Wallet works at all.
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Yeah, you could use your credit card through Google Wallet. I wonder if it now creates a one-time credit card for each transaction?
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Google Wallet is being split into this for tap-and-pay and a new version which only handles sending/receiving cash via email.
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Didn't Google Pay require carrier's blessing? I seem to remember TMobile not allowing Google Pay to be installed/function on my Galaxy S4 and instead wanted Isis Mobile Wallet (later renamed Softcard) to be the mobile payment method so that the mobile carriers would retain/resell the marketing data from the transaction and not Google. I had to install a unofficial ROM after rooting to get Google Pay to install and work.
In the end it wasn't worth it. It was faster to run my credit card than pull out phone,
Re:So how is this different (Score:4, Informative)
USA will catch up some day, the rest of the world has a crap-load of contactless terminals. I bought my lunch using one half an hour ago.
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Perhaps you should read up on how NFC payment works. The card number never traverses the RF, only a random token which is a one off for every transaction.
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Mag stripe is so much worse. One only needs to record the track data with a microphone and then play it back to any card reader.
Nonsense. Magstripe is exploitable, but not at a distance as NFC has proved to be.
Apples and oranges. Mail-order oranges.
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It's not that we don't want contactless terminals, it's that EVERYONE wants a cut of the action and wants to cut out the competition. Google wants people to use their service using Android phones. Apple wants people to use Apple Pay with iPhones. Samsung wants people to use Samsung Pay. Carriers want you to use ISIS/Softcard and not any of those. Merchants don't want you to use any of them because they have their own service, CurrentC, that can do nothing but never actually launch.
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Carriers want you to use Softcard. Sorry doesn't exist anymore?
Google acquired them back in Feb, so carriers want you to use Android Pay now.
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I'm not talking about the situation now. I was talking about the situation then, before Google grabbed SoftCard, back before Softcard wasn't Softcard, it was still Isis, and it was still a joint venture between Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile.
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Didn't Google Pay require carrier's blessing?
According to the blog post cited in the summary above, this works on all carriers.
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I meant to say that the old Google Wallet service/app required the carrier's blessing in some cases. I mixed up my names. And yes, the cited post the "new" service is suppose to work regardless of carrier, the way it should be.
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I think the net neutrality rules prohibit carriers to block this, as it's a legal service.
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The carriers weren't preventing the application data access, nor were they preventing it from being installed. They ordered Google to block the app from installing based on the devices build properties for "security reasons" since it had to use the secure element for storing card info.
More info here [androidpolice.com].
Re: So how is this different (Score:2)
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No, Google Wallet was a payment service just like Paypal, but not as good.
Of course Google has a tendency to join an already established market with inferiors products. They tend to linger for years before they are finally retired. Google is just not a fast follower.
The problem with Android pay is that I have a phone (my previous one) with NFC which is stuck on Android 4.0. My current phone has Android 5.0, but no NFC. Why can't they just use a bar code instead?
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And is available on Android 5 and higher. I used it just the other
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Completely opposite, actually.
Google Pay works like Apple Pay - i.e., it's an implementation of EMV.
Google Wallet works with Bank of America. What happens in this case is when you set up Google Wallet, BoA creates a debit card in your name for your account. Whenever you use Google Wallet, the debit account details are sent to the merchant, who tries to debit the account. Since the account has no money, BoA forwards a money request to Goo
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Thank you. That makes sense. Nothing new is really happening on the terminal end. The phone, NFC and terminal are doing what they've always done. The changes are at the other end with the payment processing.
We have a new payment terminal with all the interfaces (swipe, C&P, C&S, NFC) but the latter three often don't work because the customer's bank can't handle it, even though they issued the card with the chip.
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I'm in the US and we have a store (my wife runs it) downstairs.
It's common for customers to have magstripe-only cards.
It's common for customers to have chip&pin cards and chip&signature cards issued from US banks, but they swipe the mag stripe anyway.
Last year It was the majority of the time that trying to use the EMV or NFC interfaces would fail, except with certain banks.
This year, the failure rate is lower and it works most of the time, but it didn't take many failures to train the cardholders to
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Thanks, this is the most informative comment in the thread.
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Google Wallet is a stand alone app thus you had to first open it to make a tap payment. This is more or less built in and just tap your phone and it pays.
I'm assuming there will also be more flexible options at some point like an API that apps can use to access and use the Android Pay, if there isn't already one.
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annoyances at the checkout counter (Score:5, Funny)
no support for the big two? (Score:3)
mastercharge and bank americard?
how did they miss the big two?
how odd!
Re:no support for the big two? (Score:4, Funny)
Go Google! (Score:4, Funny)
> The new system will allow users to make payments in stores using their phone
They just keep hitting it out of the park!
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HOW many android handsets are technically unsecure? most? more than half? at least half won't ever get critical updates.
but google CARES about you! yes sir, yes they do.
I'd certainly co-mingle my money and the google goliath. yup. what would possibly go wrong?
seriously - I'm gobsmacked by how trusting people are when new risky technology 'solutions' come out. its like they can't WAIT to get raped and fucked over by some security bug or hacker break-in.
and no, I would not trust apple, either, with my
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Just to be clear... our current payment systems are incredibly insecure right now. That being said, I completely agree that I'm going to let others who like to jump on these new fads to be the ones to beta-test things and find out how insecure things really are over the next few years before I sign up. They can put their own finances and credit scores on the line, and I'll just wait until all the bugs and security issues are worked out.
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Just to be clear... our current payment systems are incredibly insecure right now.
Yep! This is why I still stick to the trusty old barter system. And if you're listening, Timothy, I've got two sacks of potatoes for some mod points!
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This feature has been around for over a decade in Japan. I've been keeping tabs on how long it takes for Japanese technologies to reach the west. It varies, but on average I'd say about 10 years. For some things like broadband internet access it's longer, for other things (like 3D city models in sat nav) it's a bit less. But on average I'd say 10 years.
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So, what techno wizardry are they sporting in Japan right now that I can look forward to in 2025?
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Really high speed rail. Washlet toilets (we are like 25 years behind on that). Japanese lighting is so far ahead of western lighting it's not even funny. Small but spacious cars. Oh, and ever OTA TV channel has been HD for years, and they are planning to start 8k (not 4k, 8k) broadcasts in 2020 for the Olympics.
excuse me, may i use your phone? (Score:3)
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Is your entire existence in your phone? Or are you being ridiculous?
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My phone has a guest account. Also the payment applications have distinct passwords. That said, the only time in the last decade someone asked to use my phone, and I let them, it was apparently to try to score some xanax. Lesson learned: you may not borrow my phone. Homeless people have cell phones these days, if you don't have one (for some bizarre reason) ask one of them. I'll consider exceptions to this rule if I know where you sleep.
Has this ever happened to you? (Score:5, Insightful)
There have been a couple of times when I left home without my wallet and went to the store and realized, oh crap, no wallet. But I had my phone on me. For those times, it certainly would be convenient to have the ability to pay with my phone.
Oh and another big one. Receipts. Freaking lots of them. I would much rather have all that in a neat list inside my phone that I can pull and review. Between multiple credit cards, cash and checks etc, I would not be able to figure out how much money I spent last week or last month. But with completely electronic payments, things get a lot more manageable.
This service is obviously not for the paranoid who think that Google and Feds already have too much of their information. They probably should stick to paper money.
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Are you trying to budget, or retain the receipts. Cause I would love to get computer readable receipts.
Not that I would love it enough to let Google have all that information. The Feds are fine. Google is a for-profit corporation that pretty much only makes money selling my information (although I suppose it makes a ton off the app store as well).
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To channel Linus, only wimps keep receipts, pay with bitcoin and let the blockchain mirror them.
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just imagine you get stopped by a cop and he ruffles thru your phone.
would you feel ok with him grabbing (copying!) any and all data (including receipts) on your phone?
you 'phone guys' are WAY TOO TRUSTING of your own phones. fine for you, I guess, but you could not (literally) pay me to engage google any more than I'm already forced to (by virtue of it being a losing battle to even block google domains from simple browsing; and I know, I keep trying and its an uphill battle).
yeah yeah, I did nothing wrong
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So what can be done besides bitching here about this?
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It's right and well that you've been modded down. First of all, the obvious. Encrypt and lock the phone. You were doing that in case of loss or theft anyway, right? Secondly, there was just recently a high profile supreme court case where it was found unconstitutional for cops to stop you and just start going through your phone so I wish they would do that. I'd subsequently beat the case with a public pretender.
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you have not been hearing or reading about the devices cops have to entirely go around any 'phone locks' you THINK you have?
phone locks are cute but the black hats that work for the man have done their work and have it all figured out. any mainstream phone has an unlock protocol that the man can call up simply by connecting a usb device.
yeah, they have those. and yeah, you'd stupid to trust some vendor who has no choice but to give in to L.E. on such things.
your phone is NOT safe during a traffic stop. l
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Really? Everywhere you pay with cash, they give you a 3% discount? That's amazing!
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I get 2% back on gas on my credit card, and at least 1% everywhere else. Other than gas stations, you're paying the card fee either way, so I figure why not use a card?
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But the merchants eat it. If you use a debit card for a $100 purchase they eat 2-3%. If you use a credit card for the same purchase, they might eat 3-4% and if you use a "rewards" credit card, the merchant must eat 4-6% of the transaction. Maybe their retail markup was only %12 on that $100 item, and now instead of making $12, they only made $6 because you got "rewards".
The big box stores can negotiate lower rates, so use your rewards card there, or at a merchant you don't care about, but if you can, pay wi
Re: Cash, thanks. (Score:2)
Debit cards use a fixed fee, usually a few cents, up to 50c for a very small retailer.
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check if you see NFC in the specs.
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You can also get NFC/RFID tags that you can then code with instructions for your device. I have one in my vehicle next to my car mount which puts the screen and sound on bright and turns off the wifi. And another on my end table (where it usually sits when I'm at home) that turn
No it isn't... (Score:2)
The app is still unavailable as of 9:00 PM EST, and in fact I actually got an email from Google saying it is NOT rolling out today.
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It is rolling out. It's just Google's typical and annoying incremental rollout, so you may not be selected to receive the app for a few days.
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That isn't how Google Play works. You can't get the app until it is posted. The app does not exist in Google Play.
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Apple Pay only works with cards from certain banks because they force the bank into an agreement
How does Apple force any bank into anything?
They don't have the power of arrest, nor sanctions, nor anything else for that matter.
Haters gotta hate.
Rewards (Score:2)
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They will work on the selected banks that support Android Pay right now. If you were using Google Wallet before with any old Mastercard or Visa (or Amex or whatever) that is not from a supported bank, they will continue to work if you register them to Android Pay. However, your rewards will not work as these are going through a third party bank.
My guess is that any credit union or bank worth their salt that is currently accepting Apple Pay will likely accept Android Pay as well some time in the near fu
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My guess is that any credit union or bank worth their salt that is currently accepting Apple Pay will likely accept Android Pay as well some time in the near future.
Mmmm. With the plethora of credential-stealing Apps and exploits like in StageFright on the Android platform, who in their right mind would use this?
And before you start the Apple Hate Machine, please point to ONE actual, non-theoretical exploit involving an individual and ApplePay.
Android Pay... but why? Bye Google. (Score:3)
I think I might have the answer to this, and it is a universal one from Google. As a frequently frustrated user of many other Google services, having asked dozens of questions about why seemingly nonsensical changes have been made to various services, and never having received a reasonable answer for a single one of them, Google's universal answer to the question "Why?" is simply, "Fuck You. That's why."
I have been slowly transferring my data off of other Google services for the last 6 months. I used Google Wallet just today before reading about this new idiocy. I'm probably going to miss this phone swipe ability, but I'm not changing to the new app. I am tired of the Google culture of disposability. There have been too many things that they made, and that I enjoyed, and that they then trashed. What they need to realize is that not offering any explanation for things like this makes me as a customer feel trashed. Bye Google. You finally broke this camel's back.
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If you think this is more complicated, you're doing it wrong. Android pay is a single purpose app for commercial transactions: loyalty and CC payments made at a POS machine. Wallet will be the paypal-esque app for sending money between private parties using pre-loaded funds (aka cash) that resides in your Google Wallet account. It actually makes more sense this way and, as someone who does not like linking an account with *my* money to an online payment system, much more secure.
As for dropping the goog, wha
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I think he or she is someone who has actually done some research on the subject, unlike someone who would consider this decision to be 'arbitrary'.
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It makes sense if you realize that Google Wallet (New) is just a Paypal-like system, complete with its own physical credit card. Google Wallet can run as a web app, run completely "offline" using the card, or even as an app on iOS (or Blackberry or WinPhone...) if Google releases it there.
Android Pay is an NFC-based payment system baked into Android. Consider that even if Google wanted to, it is unlikely that Apple would ever allow something like Android Pay in iOS considering it competes directly w
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Android Pay is an NFC-based payment system baked into Android. Consider that even if Google wanted to, it is unlikely that Apple would ever allow something like Android Pay in iOS considering it competes directly with Apple Pay.
If someone has an iPhone, why in hell would they want/need Android Pay? There is zero advantage, and considering Google's reputation for Data Mining, there is nothing to recommend it to iOS users, period.
Locked phone? (Score:2)
Do you have to unlock your phone for it to work?
Because it would take much longer to grab my phone, unlock it and tap it on the terminal than it is to grab my wallet, get my credit card out and tap it on the terminal.
I work in the payment business and we're doing a lot of projects for mobile payments, but frankly I don't see the point?
Anyway I currently have a Moto G so no NFC anyway :-)
Finally! (Score:2)