Tesla's NOx Problem: Model X Delay Explained? (dailykanban.com) 42
An anonymous reader writes: It may not have come as a surprise that the NOx emissions violations discovered in some of Volkswagen's diesel engines have led to similar findings in cars from several other manufacturers. However, Daily Kanban's Edward Niedermeyer has discovered that a seemingly unlikely car maker has also received a Notice of Violation for NOx emissions: a thermal oxidizer used in Tesla's Fremont, CA plant produces far more of the reactive gases than the permit allows. According to Niedermeyer, the device is located at the paint shop destined for the Model X production and this environmental problem could well be the leading cause for the delay.
Self-reported (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:1)
They may have self reported, but fact is, they claimed their site was going to produce .8 pounds of NOx per day, and their burner alone was producing as much as 1 pound per hour. And there's no indication on how long they'd been using it or how long they knew about it before reporting. You're probably looking for sympathy for them, but when you're producing 10x as much as you're supposed to be, that's pretty bad.
Re:Self-reported (Score:4, Interesting)
Why is NOx a problem at a static location anyway? I understand that they are hard to deal with in a vehicle because of weight and maintenance issues. But in this case they can just run the exhaust through an akaline mister or bubbler that could strip out nearly all the NOx. It shouldn't be that hard.
Does anyone have Elon's cell number? Maybe I can give him a call and offer some suggestions.
Re:Self-reported (Score:4, Interesting)
Any chance that will increase alkali or other emissions?
They don't vaporize, and any that were emitted as a mist would quickly settle out of the air. Ocean spray is alkaline. So is calcium rich spring water sold in grocery stores.
Or noise emissions?
There is no reason that a bubbler or mister would be noisy. Certainly less than the 100 ton stamping machines. The Tesla plant is located in Fremont next to I-880 in an industrial area, and it is a HUGE building surrounded by large parking lots. They are far away from anyone who would care about noise.
Re: (Score:2)
Tell that to the 5 people who got the early production versions 2 months ago, that their cars don't work.
Re: (Score:2)
What you suggest isn't a reasonable analysis either, since it fails to account for the emissions from manufacturing conventional ICE cars.
Re: (Score:1)
RTFA:
"Tesla estimated its plant’s NOx emissions would be just .8 pounds per day". NOT 8 POUNDS, 8/10 OF A POUND. So, estimating 10 times as much is closer than your 3. In actuality, it'd be more like 30 times as much.
That's if the furnace was running at 100%, 24 hours per day. Which is probably not true, but must be considered.
Fucking dumbass AC.
Re: (Score:1)
Why was this modded down?
Re: (Score:3)
Because the cheating the OP is referring to is emissions from the car and what the article is talking about is emissions from the manufacturing process. They are different issues. It is impossible to do a tear down on another company's manufacturing plant.
Re: (Score:3)
The painting is not the issue. It is the disposal of all the VOCs from the painting process and it looks like the oxidizer is running at too low a temperature and producing too much NOx.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Bullshit; maybe not! (Score:1)
I no longer think this can be taken for granted as being true!
Tim S.
That article is full of bullshit, they are saying that the painting of the cars doesn't meet some requirement.
The painting of the cars is not the difficult part, they can use any process any other car manufacturer uses.
This is just talk for the sake of the words and the propaganda.
Re: (Score:1)
In the meant
Re: (Score:1)
1) These environmental guidelines are useful for sustaining life on earth.
2) Moving to Mexico won't help.
3) If you are worried about not being able to compete with Mexico, argue to your (potential) customers.
Re: (Score:2)
1) These environmental guidelines are useful for sustaining life on earth.
They are apparently more useful for sustaining life outside of the US than they are inside the US.
2) Moving to Mexico won't help.
It'll help Tesla and Mexico a great deal.
3) If you are worried about not being able to compete with Mexico, argue to your (potential) customers.
Are your potential customers going to adjust US regulations? Or are they going to buy a more expensive product just to save a negligible amount of pollution emissions?
California (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:California (Score:5, Informative)
They didn't "build it" as such. The Tesla plant is the old GM/Toyota NUMMI plant which built collaborative Toyota and GM cars and pickups for years, which was in turn a GM-exclusive plant for years before that.
It's an OLD car plant, modernized and updated no doubt by Tesla. But Tesla certainly didn't build all of it. They simply grabbed the otherwise disused NUMMI plant for cheap. There were a LOT of good reasons for doing that, ranging from existing infrastructure dedicated to building cars, to workers from what was one of the world's best car factories, to local suppliers, machines, room to expand, etc. Reusing NUMMI was a great idea for Tesla and everyone else too.
This paint booth problem can and will be solved. It won't be enough to stop Tesla or any other auto maker. It's merely something they need to fix.
A pound a day? (Score:2)
For the whole fscking plant? This is so far below the natural background level of NOx creation it is funny. But then I guess it isn't so funny if you are trying to do business in California.
Re: (Score:3)
The non compliance level is 1 lb per hour, as far as I can find there is no indication of how much NOx is being produced in the article beyond speculation.