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United Kingdom Power The Courts

British Court Rejects Donald Trump's Attempt To Block Wind Farm (nytimes.com) 421

HughPickens.com writes: Sewell Chan reports at the NYT that Britain's highest court has unanimously rejected an attempt by Donald J. Trump to block the construction of a wind farm near his luxury golf resort in northeast Scotland. Trump has vowed to stop further development on the project if the offshore wind farm — 11 turbines, which would be visible from the golf resort 2.2 miles away — goes forward. Trump spokesman George A. Sorial denounced the ruling as "extremely unfortunate for the residents of Aberdeen and anyone who cares about Scotland's economic future" adding that the wind farm will "completely destroy the bucolic Aberdeen Bay and cast a terrible shadow upon the future of tourism for the area. History will judge those involved unfavorably, and the outcome demonstrates the foolish, small-minded and parochial mentality which dominates the current Scottish government's dangerous experiment with wind energy."

Nicola Sturgeon, first minister of Scotland, withdrew Trump's status as a business ambassador to Scotland last week after Trump called for Muslims to be barred from entering the United States. Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen has stripped Mr. Trump of an honorary degree it awarded him in 2010. Trump's mother was born in Scotland and moved to the United States in the 1930s. " I think I do feel Scottish," said Trump at one time.

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British Court Rejects Donald Trump's Attempt To Block Wind Farm

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  • History? Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SydShamino ( 547793 ) on Wednesday December 16, 2015 @05:52PM (#51133163)

    I think if history judges the presence of this wind farm unfavorably, they can, you know, just tear it down. It seems much easier to undo the damage of a wind farm than it does, say, a coal plant.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by GrahamCox ( 741991 )
      It seems much easier to undo the damage of a wind farm than it does, say, a coal plant.

      Very true. Also, it seems much easier to undo the damage of a bumbling ineffective government than it does, say, an idiotic megalomaniac fascist dictator.
      • by mikael ( 484 )

        With the SNP ruling the country, there is actually an underspend of government taxes. Though that might be due to the Labour MP's on the FETA council that didn't approve the funding of regular maintenance of the Forth Bridge, causing it to be caused to be closed when a crack was found.

    • Tell that to all the rich (liberal) folks who stopped a wind farm in Nantucket...

      • Tell that to all the rich (liberal) folks who stopped a wind farm in Nantucket...

        Sure, why not? Why would it be different for one certain group of people, unless you are trying to make this a political argument to a simple technical statement.

    • Re:History? Really? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Wednesday December 16, 2015 @07:47PM (#51133933)

      I think if history judges the presence of this wind farm unfavorably, they can, you know, just tear it down.

      Structures built in/on the ocean aren't typically torn down. The metal superstructure would either be dismanntled and sold for scrap, or just dumped into the nearby sea if the scrap value isn't high enough. The concrete foundations would either remain, or if they're judged to be a hazard to shipping they'd be blasted into small pieces and left in the sea. I'm not sure what would happen to the fiberglass blades. They're not typically recyclable, but aren't heavy enough to sink and form an artificial reef. So they'd probably have to be transported back to shore and buried in a landfill.

      It seems much easier to undo the damage of a wind farm than it does, say, a coal plant.

      Yes the damage from the coal ash and exhaust makes it pretty much the worst possible choice for power. However, for an equivalent MWe of generation capacity, the amount of steel and concrete needed [berkeley.edu] to construct wind turbines is about 5x more than for a coal plant, an order of magnitude more than for a nuclear plant, and two orders of magnitude more than needed for a gas plant.

      Wind is even worse if you compare based on the actual amount of electricity generated, since wind has about half the capacity factor of coal and gas, and nearly 1/4th that of nuclear. (Capacity factor is what fraction of the plant's generating capacity is actually fulfilled on average over a year of operation. Wind is around 0.25, coal and gas about 0.4-0.6, nuclear around 0.9.)

      Note: I don't oppose wind. I actually support it, as its cost has come down enough that it's starting to become cost-competitive with nuclear and coal. I just try to counter the misinformation put out there by the unicorn and rainbows crowd who've convinced the public that wind, solar, and hydro have no drawbacks. Every power source has drawbacks, and picking the right one requires an honest and thorough comparison of all the real advantages and drawbacks.

      • by dbIII ( 701233 )

        However, for an equivalent MWe of generation capacity

        You are comparing apples to aardvarks - wind does not fill the base load niche. Unless you have a square wave of demand with huge jumps then you need something other than base load.

      • Re:History? Really? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Alioth ( 221270 ) <no@spam> on Thursday December 17, 2015 @08:15AM (#51136103) Journal

        I wonder what it looks like when you have to add the steel, concrete and other materials to mine the coal, transport the coal, dispose of the ash, fuel to move the coal to the "resource price" of the coal-fired power station comparison? The thing about wind is the fuel delivers itself.

  • by PPH ( 736903 ) on Wednesday December 16, 2015 @05:54PM (#51133177)

    .. or there will be hell toupee.

  • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Wednesday December 16, 2015 @05:54PM (#51133181) Journal

    Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen has stripped Mr. Trump of an honorary degree it awarded him in 2010

    You kind of have to question why they awarded it in the first place.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 16, 2015 @05:55PM (#51133189)

    Wind Farm? Not Off My Back Porch [go.com]

    But another obstacle is a political heavyweight with a famous name, a local Cape Cod address and hardline opposition to the project.

    U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy's primary residence is in Hyannisport, Mass., on the Kennedy family compound. It's one of the closest landfalls -- about 6 miles -- from the proposed site of the 440-feet turbines, which would be visible from his house as well as other surrounding coastlines.

    In all fairness, Kennedy's aides were probably afraid he'd try to drive over to the windmills out at sea.

    • Wind Farm? Not Off My Back Porch [go.com]

      But another obstacle is a political heavyweight with a famous name, a local Cape Cod address and hardline opposition to the project.

      U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy's primary residence is in Hyannisport, Mass., on the Kennedy family compound. It's one of the closest landfalls -- about 6 miles -- from the proposed site of the 440-feet turbines, which would be visible from his house as well as other surrounding coastlines.

      In all fairness, Kennedy's aides were probably afraid he'd try to drive over to the windmills out at sea.

      So you're saying that Ed Kennedy was even more of a winner than Trump?

  • Listen all you Scots, Trump's mouthpiece says that experimenting with wind energy is not only dangerous but foolish, small-minded and parochial. Just say no.

  • Hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)

    by raftpeople ( 844215 ) on Wednesday December 16, 2015 @06:04PM (#51133239)
    A blow hard is trying to stop a wind farm?
  • by Idou ( 572394 ) on Wednesday December 16, 2015 @06:06PM (#51133259) Journal
    he was trumped. . .
    • he was trumped. . .

      Yea, but somehow I gather this isn't the last trick...

      • by Idou ( 572394 )
        Perhaps, but I feel like Trump's past success was due to a high $/BS ratio. People found him eccentric, but he had SO much money that they still were willing to look past his quirks.

        His candidacy appears to have exploded the denominator in that ratio, so I am really interested see to what extent that impacts his ability to "get his way."
        • Where I don't disagree with your analysis of Trump, I was trying to further the original poster's card playing joke...

          Trump's running for the nomination is more about dissatisfaction with the status quo in Washington DC where the two parties have literally fought over the controls of a car that is careening along a mountain road towards a cliff. One party has the gas peddle covered and the other is yanking the wheel while the passengers in the back are yelling "Do something you fools!" Trump is seen as th

  • You'd have thought someone with his name [britishslang.co.uk] would like all things wind-related.

  • by TheSync ( 5291 ) on Wednesday December 16, 2015 @06:30PM (#51133409) Journal

    Aberdeenshire and Grampian attracted
    1.62 million visitors in 2011.

    Palm Springs attracts around 1.5 million visitors, and it is adjacent to the San Gorgonio Pass Wind Farm, with over 3000 wind turbines!

  • ...whether to make joke...about...trump is a wind bag...or...about....ridiculous hair blowing away...
  • by BitwizeGHC ( 145393 ) on Wednesday December 16, 2015 @06:55PM (#51133605) Homepage

    Giant windmills constantly turning just makes scenery more awesome.

  • So some university takes exception to something Trump says on the campaign trail and withdraws an honorary degree... How's that relevant to Trump loosing in his effort to block the construction of some windmills?

    Oh yea, it's bash the Republican front runner time... So he gets two demerits, for saying something un PC about some specific religion they don't like AND for being on the wrong side of the "green" movement.

    I think Trump is a joke, but come on people, stop feeding him by reacting to is stupid infl

    • You are exactly right. The liberal media is actually Trump's greatest asset. They play to all his intentionally over the top statements. What the liberal media has intently done over the years is mute, twist, and otherwise minimize any moderate conservative message, and yet here they are running around after Trump's every word like begging dogs.
      • Sometimes I wonder if the media doesn't really know this and are just trying to drive the republican nomination to him. He's Hillary's only hope.

        Think about this. Why did he run as a republican? I think it was because he knew what we all know that Hillary is going to be the democratic nominee, there is no chance anybody else makes it, even Trump. He also knew that a third party run would get him into the general election but he would surely loose and again Hillary would likely win. His *only* path to th

  • Sigh.... On the upside the Scots are through the centuries used to obnoxious overlords trying to tell them what to do and how to behave so they probably could'nt give a "#T% bagpipes hoot about the threats of some random yank who is trying to strong arm them. I mean seriously ? I find it particularly interesting that this man is actually trying to become the President of the United States of America... Once a country most Europeans actually looked up to and respected with great gratitude for the sacrifice
  • Not the first time (Score:5, Informative)

    by kevmeister ( 979231 ) on Wednesday December 16, 2015 @07:58PM (#51133985) Homepage
    Three years ago the Donald tweeted "Ugly wind turbines have destroyed the entrance to Palm Springs, CA. These monstrosities are ruining landscapes all over the globe -- expensive and bad electric".

    In a local TV interview [kesq.com] he expanded on the tweet."The turbines are made in China for the most part and certainly outside the United States, but mostly in China. They are a bird killing machines, they kill birds,"

    Current estimates are that windmill are the cause of 3 out of every 100,000 human-related bird deaths and are way, way below #1, windows (think "Trump Tower") and #2, domestic cats. As to the place of manufacture, at least those windmills are imported from the USA. Yes, Made in America. But the Donald has never been one to let facts interfere with a good sound byte.

I've never been canoeing before, but I imagine there must be just a few simple heuristics you have to remember... Yes, don't fall out, and don't hit rocks.

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