Elon Musk Announces $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Electric Car 430
Elon Musk has officially unveiled the Tesla Model 3 electric car at the company's facility in Hawthorne, California. The Model 3 is being dubbed as a "mass market affordable car." The base-model Model 3 will be able to travel 0-60MPH in less than 6 seconds, with "versions of the Model 3 that go much faster." In terms of range, it features an EPA range of at least 215 miles per charge. All Model 3's will come standard with autopilot hardware and autopilot safety features. The Model 3 will also fit five adults comfortably, thanks largely in part to the large, rear piece of glass on the roof area. You'll find front and rear trunks, offering more cargo capacity than any cargo gas car with the same external dimensions. Safety is a big concern for Tesla so they've manufactured the Model 3 with a 5 star safety rating in every category. The Model 3 starts at $35,000 with a release date scheduled for 2017. Tesla will take your preorder now for a $1,000 down payment.
Can it drive me to the hyperloop? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't need this car because I can use the hyperloop in order to drive to work at the gigafactory in order to afford a journey to the mars colony!
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I don't want a family car....
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Please...Tesla, just make a SPORTS car again...or at least one that looks like one again like the original Roadster.
I don't want a family car....
At this time the mass market money is in CUVs, SUVs, pickups, and sedans, in that order. If they're going to be viable long-term, they're going to have to play to the masses. A sports car is a good fourth or fifth model. They'll probably do a small pickup before that, because money.
Let me know when it is under $15,000. (Score:2)
If it has 4 wheel drive and I can use it to haul a couch I might consider test driving one.
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Hauling a couch? Is that your solution for extra seats?
But yes, it does have an all-wheel drive option. I think it's going to take many years before you can buy even a used one for 15k, though.
Let me know when it is under $10,000. (Score:2)
If it has 10 wheels and can haul my semi teailer, I might consider buying one.
Dash (Score:2)
I certainly hope the interior photos are either just a placeholder or a joke, because having a dashboard as ONLY just a 15" landscape monitor mounted on a pole in the center of the car would be the stupidest design, ever!
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/... [dragtimes.com]
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/... [dragtimes.com]
I found others like this:
http://www.autocarnewshq.com/w... [autocarnewshq.com]
which look FAR more reasonable, but I can't tell if those are really just Model S.
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Worked for MINI (Score:2)
A center mounted speedometer worked for tens of thousands of MINI owners (though sadly MINI did eventually move the speedo back by the wheel).
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Makes sense to me. If you watch some of the Periscopes that are going up with people riding in the car you can see that there is a special mode for the screen where it puts a speedometer and other instruments in the upper left hand corner.
I think it's going to be really nice not to have all of that "junk" right in your main view.
Also: remember that with things like adaptive cruise control and autopilot... we won't really need to look at the speedometer quite as much anymore...
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Since the Model 3 is supposed to have a landscape touchpad, I don't think the last link actually depicts the Model 3.
And for me not having instruments in my field of vision is quite the dealbreaker. Flicking your eyes down is way faster than having to move your head to the side (since I'm pretty much blind on my right eye, this is what I'd have to do).
Too bad. OTOH, I just bought a used Mazda CX-9 which I hope to be driving up to another ten years, so it's not a car for me anyway.
"Affordable" (Score:2, Insightful)
Basically, affordable 5 - 10 years later when it's good and used. It's no shock that Elon's idea of affordable is anything but. It's the complete disconnect rich people have with the rest of the world showing itself.
Re:"Affordable" (Score:5, Insightful)
It's already been stated many times - but $35k is the average selling price of a car in the US. If that isn't the mark of "affordability"... then what is?
$35k with financing is ~$600 a month. If you look at this advice from Consumer Reports ( http://www.consumerreports.org... [consumerreports.org] ) it says you should be making ~$75k a year to afford this car. $75k for a household is not "rich" in my book. It's "doing well"... but MANY people will be able to "afford" this car.
They said "affordable"... they didn't say "cheap".
Re:"Affordable" (Score:4, Insightful)
That average is pulled up by larger, more expensive, vehicles such as SUV's and trucks. And given that the Tesla 3 is a sedan - that suggests that average is largely useless as a mark of "affordability" since it includes a large number of vehicles that aren't sedans purchased by a large number of people, the bulk of whom are unlikely to replace those vehicles with sedans. (To be fair, this includes folks driving cheap compacts as well as folks driving expensive SUV's.) A few minutes searching around (but by no means exhaustive) seems to show that the average price of a mid-sized sedan is somewhere in the $20-25k range. So, using your criteria but correcting the numbers to compare apples-to-apples... the Tesla 3 falls well outside the affordable range. (But within the range for luxury sedans, a not inconsiderable market.)
If you're making in the range of $75k/annum, you're in the top third of US families. Not rich, no, but above average (which is around $55k/annum currently).
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IF you happen to live in the right place, and IF you happen to be in a position to buy before they pull them.
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Don't forget the -$7500 in federal tax rebates,
which gives a net price of $27,500
and state rebates. In my state that adds up to
-$14,500 grand total rebate
Those won't hold... They didn't make much of an impact when they only applied to a few cars sold, but as the numbers go up, those will go away.
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What amazes me is that people are willing to put down deposits now and then wait 2-3 years for delivery. It's worst outside the US - I'd be surprised if the UK saw any significant number of deliveries of the RHD model before 2019.
My finance deal is up at the end of this year and I don't want to go back to petrol. Nissan should have a 200 mile range model out by then, or maybe a used Model S if the prices come down. It's not Tesla's fault of course, I just can't see the logic of lending them £100
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What amazes me is that people are willing to put down deposits now and then wait 2-3 years for delivery.
Yeah, I'm really kicking myself for that $1000 deposit. If only I had the financial acumen to put it in a 1.55% 24mo CD, it would be worth $31 more in 2 years. That's like a latte every 3 months! I could be really living high on the hog.
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I was thinking of putting it towards a house. There are special high interest savings accounts for people trying to buy their first homes in the UK. When you buy a house the government matches what you saved, so you instantly double your money. It's then generally cheaper to tack the cost of the car on to the mortgage, rather than getting a loan or finance.
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Don't be stupid. Most people do not buy new cars - they buy used cars. Really think about how many people you see driving this year's model and stop being asinine.
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Because people don't buy a new car every year, and cars don't just magically go away after the first year. There are cars on the road that are 10+ years old that are still being resold. A new car can only be bought new once. A used car can be bought and sold multiple times.
It's fucking EASY to sell more used cars than new ones. It's like you people are willfully fucking stupid.
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All these comments comparing the cost to other cars just make me wonder why Tesla are even bothering with the US.
The US is a huge car market, there is no reason to ignore it.
I'm sure Tesla will sell a reasonable number of them here. If they really hit their price, performance, and range targets, they might well sell 50,000 of them in the US.
For a plug in EV, that would be an impressive number.
The only problem with that number is that 50,000 gas powered cars are sold each day in the US...
So it still only works out to about 1/3 of 1%. Still, not bad at all, but there is no assurance it will scale beyond those early ad
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The model 3 makes a lot of sense everywhere in Europe. The price and size are comparable to a VW Passat, which is the mainstay of office fleet cars. Fuel is ludicrously expensive compared to the US, so it'll be trivial to save $200 a month by switching to electricity. We don't tend to do thousand mile road trips, so a 200 mile range is fine.
Well sure, if you use selective taxes to move the market around, you can make anything make sense.
Doesn't mean it actually works on its own of course. :)
I just filled up our second car, it took about 16 gallons of fuel and cost $24. That'll last me for 2 weeks.
When my wife fills up our SUV, it does cost more, closer to $50 since it takes premium (93 octane), but even doing that an average of 3 times a month, meh... That is only $150.
Now you may say, "hey, the Model 3 could save you that". No, it couldn't
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The fact you bought a Taurus says exactly how much of a clue with cars you have.
Don't knock it till you've tried it..
Nice car actually, roomy, powerful, MASSIVE trunk space, the rear seat actually DOES hold 3 adults comfortably.
Nice air-conditioned leather seats, sat radio, real wood trim inside, soft touch surfaces everywhere, and 290 horsepower under the hood.
Yes, it is a Ford, not a Lexus, and yes, I know there is a difference (my Mom owns a Lexus RX, nice car, nicer dealer service by far than Ford).
But for $347 a month with nothing due at signing (not even tax), it really is a kill
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More likely he hauls "toys" (four wheelers, dune buggies, whatever) a couple times a month and, maybe, a few kids to and from school and activities. That said, I agree with his assertion that the Model 3 is still too expensive. I don't think a Taurus is a good counter example because they aren't that great, but maybe they are. The model 3 doesn't look that great either.
You are right, overbuying for "I might need to carry something" is a common justification for "mine's bigger than yours" purchases in the
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So that's people who are losing $25k on investments?
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Windshield + roof as a single piece of glass? (Score:3)
While it looks real nice, but that means any damage to the windshield now means a more costly replacement. Is that really a sound engineering decision?
Plus, unless you are up north, there are many places where the summer sun will literally cook you in the car with the now very pronounced greenhouse effect. Having an option for a more conventional roof which helps to reflect sunlight make more sense.
5 star safety (Score:5, Insightful)
"Safety is a big concern for Tesla so they've manufactured the Model 3 with a 5 star safety rating in every category."
They haven't manufactured it at all yet. And they hope to get a 5 star rating. They don't award the starts themselves, so they'll have to do their best and wait and see what happens like anyone else.
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A roof composed entirely of glass ...
I'm really waiting to see how that gets a 5 star for roll overs.
Uh, no. The roof skin has been replaced entirely with glass. In an ordinary car, that has ramifications for front-end collisions; up to 40% of the force of a front-end collision can be transmitted through the windshield, through the roof, and into the rear of the vehicle. The magic of unibody. However, in a rollover, it's relatively irrelevant. The roof skin is meaningless to crush protection. The pillars and structure handle that.
I can not imagine that sliding upside down on glass between two rails is going to go well, the amount of glass flying around inside a Model 3 after an accident is just frightening at this point. Safety glass only does so much.
You're not going to be sliding on anything in a rollover. You'll be rolling o
Space capsule (Score:3)
Take a look at interior [imgur.com], the pictures here [imgur.com] and tell me that's not something to die for.
Cargo cargo cargo (Score:2)
You'll find front and rear trunks, offering more cargo capacity than any cargo gas car with the same external dimensions.
Why don'tcha slip the word "cargo" in there a few more times?
If you're for EVs, don't vote for Clinton (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/... [greenpeace.org]
Side note, if you're for Electric Vehicles, don't listen to Clinton and don't vote for her.
She has already gotten $4.5 million from oil and gas companies, and that is the "known" amounts that had to be reported.
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Note: This doesn't mean anyone on the Republican side would be better, you should probably vote for Bernie Sanders.
Re: "mass market affordable car" (Score:2, Insightful)
That is the average price for a new car.
Today, Tesla had lines of 900 people in Denver CO waiting 5 hours to put a down payment on the car. It was like that at all their dealerships. This is hotter than an iPhone.
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That is the average price for a new car.
"Average price for a new car" seems to suffer the same problem as "average salary", the distribution is skewed (IMHO). It's an interesting indicator, but I think that the median price may be a little better. Does anyone has it?
Re: "mass market affordable car" (Score:5, Funny)
Dear person reading the above comment in the future,
Hahaha, yeah, there were really people that thought that way in 2016. The writing was on the wall, though.
Love,
2016
PS: Sorry we weren't timely with the whole 'carbon' thing.
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And we also apologise for the environmental destruction caused by the lithium battery industry.
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You realize there's this thing called "renewable energy"? It can come from the wind, the sun, or from water currents, so you don't have to burn up anything. Quite amazing, I know.
Re: "mass market affordable car" (Score:5, Insightful)
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With "Nobody" you mean the about 33% electric energy, that comes from renewables for instance in Germany, the 80% in Austria and Switzerland and the 90% in Norway?
You don't have to go that far. You got neighbour in the north where ~96% of all energy produced come from hydro power and ~99% come from renewable source [hydroquebec.com]
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yeah, beacause oil production doesn't destroy millions of hectares of habitat: http://extremeenergy.org/files... [extremeenergy.org]
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You realize that almost nobody's energy comes from those sources? You realize that the process of making things like solar panel produces a lot of pollution in itself?
First sentence is simply false, unless your definition of "almost nobody's" covers everything under 100%.
Second sentence means nothing unless you define "a lot of pollution"; taking into account you're comparing means of energy production to replace mining and burning coal, so your "lot of pollution" would have to be a pretty ridiculously massive LOT to even reach comparable orders of magnitude.
Re: "mass market affordable car" (Score:4, Insightful)
Out of sight, out of mind I guess.
That's the fundamental truth of a consumer society and it doesn't just apply to powering vehicles. Almost everything you buy will involve dubious if not downright unethical environmental or societal practices. They're just all hidden from view so as not to concern you.
And I admit to being just as guilty of being oblivious.
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Moving the source upstream provides a level of indirection. You're right, pollution is still a problem, but if you've programming experience you know that adding a level of indirection makes a difficult problem a bit more simple. Once the source is moved, you have the opportunity to modify and improve that source without having to ma
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Well, yes. By our very nature humans negatively impact the environment just by existing. Our stone age ancestors were damaging the environment by chopping down trees. You'll pretty much NEVER be able to live without some negative environmental impact (whether that's "polluting" or not is another issue - hydro, wind turbines, solar, etc primarily impact the environment in different ways than polluting).
HOWEVER think of it in terms of overall impact. "Miles per unit of pollution" if you will. If your ele
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I prefer not to reply to AC, I'll just add here that with ZEV your choice of upstream can be away from the usual war zones in and around oil producing countries.
Actually... (Score:3)
A lot of electricity now is produced from natural gas which is much cleaner than gasoline.
Re: "mass market affordable car" (Score:5, Insightful)
We have solar panels and we're producing more than we need. Bought them in anticipation of an electric car in a few years. In my street, half the houses have solar panels. That's an average street with young families, not a rich neighborhood. Even now that the subsidies have run out, people are still installing them because it takes less than 10 years to recoup the investment and they last about 20 years.
Meanwhile, given the massive interest in solar panels, new technologies are being discovered all the time yielding cleaner production methods with less toxic materials. All of that while at the same time the oil industry is investing in fracking and other extremely polluting methods.
How can you seriously say that we need to continue to burn fuel?
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The average price for a new car in 2013 was $31,252. That's below 35k, and it should be pointed out that this is the average price PAID for a new car- not sticker prices or whatever.
So yea, lots of people can buy 35,000 dollar cars. One thing I can't find is the MEDIAN price paid- cars are probably on some bell curve, but it has a long tail. If your neighbor drops 100k on a GTR, that's going to push the average up. Even if the median is a decent bit lower, you still end up with plenty of Americans that
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Even if the median is a decent bit lower, you still end up with plenty of Americans that can pay 35k for a new car- especially an electric one.
Yes, they CAN, but people who spend $35K+ on a car want more than a Ford Fusion or Toyota Camry.
BTW, I got an e-mail from my Ford dealer yesterday... offering a Ford Fusion for $15,998. There is a Toyota dealer here who has a billboard up for a base Camry for $17K.
$35k buyers expect more. For all the flash and pomp, the Model 3 is clearly not "more", at least for the base model.
Re: "mass market affordable car" (Score:5, Insightful)
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115,000 already have
No, 115,000 have put down a $1K refundable deposit worldwide...
Many of those people will not end up buying, and while I have no doubt he'll sell a bunch of these cars, assuming he hits the price, performance and range targets, 115,000 cars worldwide is a drop in the bucket.
"In all, auto makers sold 17.5 million cars and light trucks in the U.S. last year, a 5.7% increase."
The increase from 2014 to 2015 was 1 million cars.
And that is JUST the US autosales, the 115K is worldwide.
It sounds nice, but it is a ro
Re: "mass market affordable car" (Score:4)
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You have to factor in the cost savings on fuel and maintenance. The cars will come with supercharger ports, but it's not clear if access to the superchargers will be free, and if it is free for how long, but in any case charging at home and work will be much cheaper than buying petrol.
Maintenance should be much lower too. The only fluid that needs replacing is windscreen washer, there are no spark plugs, exhaust, drive shaft, alternator, starter motor, radiator etc.
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Here's a fairly recent article that says ~$35k is the average selling price of a new car: http://www.usatoday.com/story/... [usatoday.com]
I expect that MANY... very MANY people in the US can afford to buy this car.
Google has a "car payment calculator" (just google that and it will come up). It says the payments will be $600 for a 5 year loan at ~3% interest. That's only $7,200 a year. So anyone making more than that a year can "afford" one (that's the TRUE American way! :-)
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It says the payments will be $600 for a 5 year loan at ~3% interest.
You missed something then...
$35,000 + 6.25% sales tax (average) + $300 in title, licence, and other fees = $37,500
$37,500 financed for 5 years at 3% interest = $674 per month.
Re:"mass market affordable car" (Score:5, Informative)
And after these five years, I'd expect the range of the car to have dropped 20% or so.
Um, no. I own a vintage 2008 Tesla Roadster, and its range has dropped only about 10% over nearly 8 years. The battery chemistry and durability used by Tesla has only increased since then, so I the Model 3 will do substantially better even than that. Over five years, it might drop 5%. Possibly 10% at the outside, but not anywhere close to 20%.
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As others pointed out, more like 10%.
Even if it drops 20% that still leaves a range of ~180 miles. And just like a mobile phone, you can change your lifestyle habits ever so slightly to accomodate more frequent charging. After a while, you wouldn't even notice. Plus the majority of people 180miles is more than sufficient to get them through to a nightly charge.
Re:"mass market affordable car" (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll go there. Seriously, how many Americans can truly afford to buy a $35k car?
Don't know, but the average new price of a car is $33560 [usatoday.com] so with inflation to 2017 it's well... average? And I'm guessing there's somebody buying them so eventually there's cheaper second hand cars on the market. Of course it comes with the range limitations, but from the prices I've looked at tanking up a Tesla is cheaper than a gas guzzler, the value drop-off because of the aging battery is a bit unknown but overall I don't think it should have a higher total cost of ownership. It's not exactly a bargain either but he only needs mass market appeal, not mass market dominance.
I preordered one but that's mostly due to Norway's crazy high tax rates on ICE cars while EVs get a lot of benefits, but I'll see how much of that stays way until 2018, it might help that 2017 is an election year. If not, well it's a reservation so I can still cancel... but just to give you an idea, with our tax incentives the EV market share is about 15% and hybrids 22% and I think the Tesla 3 is a much better price/performance car than the current crop of Nissan Leaf, BMW i3, Renault Zoe and Tesla S that currently make up most of those 15%. It'll sell real well here.
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Yes, but that "average" includes a million pickup trucks, most of which are sold well over that average.
The "average" price of a F-150 these days is in the mid $40's, with higher end models near $60K.
I'm sorry, am I supposed to not understand how averages work, just because you live in Texas? I know y'all try to fuck up everyone else's textbooks, but the reason 35k is called an average is because some vehicles sell for more, and others sell for less. In particular, commercial vehicles damn well better cost more than average given the amount of tax writeoffs we're throwing at them. I'd sure hope they're providing more utility than a Nissan Versa. The least a lifted F-whatever with a gun rack and hay guar
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n particular, commercial vehicles damn well better cost more than average given the amount of tax writeoffs we're throwing at them.
A whole bunch of pickup trucks sold today no longer are "commercial vehicles". Almost ALL the "expensive versions" are private vehicles.
Come to Texas, you could easily be sitting at a stop light with a F-150 on either side of you and one behind you.
They sell so many of them here, Ford makes a "Texas Edition" of the truck, just sold here. Even comes with a "Texas Edition" badge on the truck.
While ignoring the SUV Tesla just released last year.
What, that little toy car they call a SUV? The one that costs over $100K?
Call me when they release one that actually
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Good question : http://www.autoblog.com/2014/0... [autoblog.com]
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With decent credit thats a $500 payment, excellent prolly $350...
To get the car down to a $350 payment, you either have to put a crap ton of money down, or you need to extend the payment terms to a very long time.
Even at 60 months at 0% interest, which isn't likely to happen unless Musk buys down the bank rate, you're looking at $624.79 per month after taxes and fees.
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Sure, but if you're using it to commute and you have a decent commute, that $624 a month will be more like $424 a month with all the gas you're no longer buying. Lots of people have cars with payments in that range.
Re:"mass market affordable car" (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, but if you're using it to commute and you have a decent commute, that $624 a month will be more like $424 a month with all the gas you're no longer buying. Lots of people have cars with payments in that range.
Maybe... But to save $200 per month, you need two things to happen...
1. Electricity has to be free... It isn't... it is cheaper than gas to be sure, but it isn't free...
But lets pretend it somehow is...
2. You'd have to drive more than 3,800 miles... a MONTH... to save $200 in gas...
Buy a Ford Fusion, spend half the price ($17,500 buys, after rebates, a nice Ford Fusion that carries 5 people), so end up with a payment of $310 a month.
Combined city/highway is 29 MPG. At $1.50 a gallon for gas, you're spending $1 for every 19.3 miles you drive.
If you average 12,000 miles a year (a reasonable number), that is 33 miles per day. So you're spending about $1.60 per day, or $48 per month in gas.
But keep in mind, if you don't drive at all for a week, go on vacation, get laid off, or change your driving, the payment remains.
Stop driving the Ford and the gas cost goes away.
Also, keep in mind that we assumed that wall power was free. The above numbers are worse in real life for the Tesla because:
1. Electricity isn't free
2. A home charger isn't free
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It is also worth noting that there are many lease programs on the Ford Fusion, I regularly see $199 a month lease deals with nothing due at signing. Just sign and drive.
Now you might say... "but, but, the Tesla isn't a Ford, it is fancy!" Maybe... but is it twice the money fancy? It is a box with 4 wheels that takes 5 people someplace.
They'll sell, but don't kid yourself, it is still expensive.
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the cheapest you can get gas right now is more than $1.80/gallon. Most places in the US it's more than $2/gallon, so why did you use $1.50 for your calculations?
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I put gas into my Taurus for $1.50 a gallon this week.
Granted, it was E85, but it still gets me from A to B as well as the dead dino version.
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E85 is a fool's game. There's far less energy density in E85 than gasoline. You actually end up paying more per mile.
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You're in the USA aren't you ?
Yep, in Texas no less! :)
Here in Europe fuel-prices are 3x the prices in North America.
(Lots of environment taxes, taxes because the local government needs to fill their deficit and to put insult to injury they charge VAT on top of the taxes.)
Yep, gotta pay for all those "free" services somehow. :)
(I kid, I kid... ok, not really)
So with my daily commute being between 120 miles and 200 miles per day (multiple locations) and currently spending around $500 in fuel per month this is starting to look very interesting.
At those gas prices and that millage, it may very well make sense for you. If it does, by all means, go for it.
Most people drive less than 50 miles a day, millions drive less than 25 miles a day.
EVs right now seem to only make sense if:
1. You pay a crap ton for fuel because of taxes
2. You drive well above the average number of miles
Which is fine, if you're that person, then go ahead and get one
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I live in Amsterdam, and there would only be one reason to get an EV: to be allowed to park on the EV-only spots with charger ports :-)
We bought a new car a year ago, but my daily commute is by bicyle and I use the car for longer trips. So, EV would only make sense once the charging-on-the-road is really solved. Now we just bought a cheap and light city car (VW UP) which supposedly gets 5l/100km (1:20, 47mpg), in reality gets between that and 5.5l/100 (1:17, 43mpg), but that is partly due to 'bad' driving o
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The target market isn't average Americans. The cars are for people who use sites like this and likely make in excess of 100k
I'm exactly the target market. Someone who is totally comfortable with technology and I make well north of 100k.
I'm still not going to buy one, it is too expensive for what it really is, a fancy Ford Fusion with a battery pack and electric motor.
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My bank is always offering credit at 3.4% for unsecured loans of up to ã25k so this could be affordable without a huge stretch.
$37,500 USD (taxes and fees added to the $35K base price)
At 3.4% for 60 months, your payment would be $681 per month.
I don't know if that is "a lot" in your country, but in the US, that is well north of what the "average" is.
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No way. From my quick math, counting in the $7,500 rebate, in order to afford a $27,500 car one would need income of about $70k a year.
The $7,500 rebate isn't going to be there.
It is one thing to offer it to a few thousand, or even a few tens of thousands of people per year.
Half a million? A million?
No.
The real payment is a whole lot higher...
Even the base model, at $35K, is really $37,500 or so once sales tax and paperwork fees are added in ($300 of paperwork and 6.25% tax)
For 60 months, even at 0% interest, that is $625 a month.
Re:"mass market affordable car" (Score:4, Interesting)
So yeah, anyone complaining about the price of this car will get laughed in the face by not only Anonymous Coward above, but also by me.
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Here in Singapore you can't even get a really cheap car for that price. A new Toyota Camry costs the equivalent of 103000 USD here.
Yea, but that is a special market, so you can blame your location, situation, and government for that.
The Model 3 won't be $35k there either.
A new Toyota Camry can be had here for under $20k.
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Nah, I saw headlines about the brand new iPhone SE lines competing with the Model 3 preorder lines yesterday, before April 1st. It's real and actually announced finally, though now that it's announced, I find myself utterly disinterested.
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Yeah that was my favourite one too. Delightfully, the logo was saved for posterity on the wikipedia page.
Re:Great Ads (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Great Ads (Score:4, Insightful)
Thanks. Yeah Elon Musk called me up and said he'd write me a check for ONE MILLION dollars to run this story, because he said he really wanted the Slashdot AC's to hear about his new car, and because he said it wouldn't be covered anywhere else.
I laughed... would read again +8 :)
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Better yet, BizX has flipped /. and renamed it ./ and sold it to Monster (Dice's competitor?). A new CSS signifying a move to the 2.0 interwebs would have been nice, after all flippers are known to use some spit and polish.
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Re:Great Ads (Score:4, Funny)
On a side note, I checked out your comment history and I agree with many of your suggestions.
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Maybe I shouldn't troll people so much, though it's part of Slashdot's storied tradition. Thankfully, April 1 is a holiday dedicated to people like me. Recommending the elimination of logged-in users was in jest, by the way.
In all seriousness, people are going to bitch no matter what you do or don't do. Even when it comes to something like eliminating Devshare, I'm sure there are a few developers who aren't happy to see it gone. You did absolutely the right thing by nixing Devshare, and I don't think there'
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There will be an all-wheel-drive version. With some snow tires I would expect it to do well.
That said - it does sit rather low... so you won't be driving it through very deep snow!
Re:How does it do in the winter? (Score:5, Informative)
This is bases on my x-country trip in my brother's Model S:
With the 4WD option this car is really superb in the snow. The computer can adjust torque on all four wheels completely independently, and the low center of gravity make both acceleration and breaking solid.
Where a Tesla will get you is in the reduced battery capacity. Tesla operates their batteries at 72 +/- 1 deg. F. and it will use power from the battery to maintain that temperature. At some point it gets cold enough that waste energy from motors and battery discharge is not enough to keep the battery at operating temperature and at that point there is a noticeable drop in range. Cold weather also extends charging time because the battery needs to be warmed up before charging.
The spookiest part (from my perspective) is that you could park the car with enough charge to get to the next super charger, have the battery cool off, and end up short of charge. In general a 110 outlet is not enough to charge the car (a full charge at 110 would take 25 hours), but we did plug the car into 110 overnight to keep the system warm. People with engine block heaters will know how this works.
The visibility was decent. A large front windscreen is both a blessing and a curse in rain/ slush. The lane-assist is not a smart option when visibility is poor.
Depending on how and where you drive the car, the biggest issue will be a strong desire to keep the car plugged in when stopped in the cold.
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Nice! I haven't heard a first-hand story of winter travel in a Tesla yet. I figured it would work well with the 4WD system... but it's really interesting to hear about the battery issues.
Thanks for the post!
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As an EV driver myself (Leaf), what you have to remember is that the reduced range is recovered when the batteries warm up again. How much they warm up depends on what kind of driving you do, of course.
I've noticed that the battery charge display in the Leaf is not quite linear either, and maybe the Tesla is the same. From 100% it drops faster than when you get down to 50% or 20%.
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The love it in the Nordic countries. Seriously, it's huge over there.
Yep, tax gas cars enough and provide large enough EV incentives, and people will do that sort of thing...
Doesn't make it a rational market nor mean it will work elsewhere. :)
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It's a money saving scheme. They have socialized healthcare, so ICE vehicles are costing the taxpayer money (not to mention individuals and businesses having to deal with time off work, sick pay etc.) Pushing EVs as quickly as possible will save money on healthcare and cleaning up pollution, and it's also helped their EV infrastructure companies become world leaders too.
Re: How does it do in the winter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep, tax gas cars enough and provide large enough EV incentives, and people will do that sort of thing...
Doesn't make it a rational market nor mean it will work elsewhere. :)
Purely "rational" / "homo economicus" behaviour is very far away in the mobility market even without EVs:
- Passenger trains are (often) subsidized directly and indirectly by not having to pay full cost for using rails, stations etc.
- Cars are subsidized indirectly by building roads, but taxed directly with sales tax and (often) extra vehicle tax or import tax
- Gasoline is taxed with sales tax and other taxes, but subsidized indirectly by military interventions / protecting shipping lanes
So let's see what your rational mobility decision is in a country without a functioning government to 'distort' the market. My bet is going to be on walking, especially walking away :).
Re: How does it do in the winter? (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't make it a rational market
Neither does making gas available for cheap and forcing your pollution to others. Still, it's the logic used in most of the world.
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No, it means there are no cross supports and none of the traditional sound dampening material in the roof, just one sheet of solid glass (or something glass like) so there is a thinner, lighter roof. Taking out those cross supports gives a very surprising feeling of a lot more space.