Japan To Begin Testing Fingerprints As 'Currency' (the-japan-news.com) 106
schwit1 quotes a report from The Japan News: Starting this summer, the government will test a system in which foreign tourists will be able to verify their identities and buy things at stores using only their fingerprints. The government hopes to increase the number of foreign tourists by using the system to prevent crime and relieve users from the necessity of carrying cash or credit cards. It aims to realize the system by the 2020 Tokyo Olympic and Paralympic Games. The experiment will have inbound tourists register their fingerprints and other data, such as credit card information, at airports and elsewhere. Tourists would then be able to conduct tax exemption procedures and make purchases after verifying their identities by placing two fingers on special devices installed at stores. The Inns and Hotels Law requires foreign tourists to show their passports when they check into ryokan inns or hotels. The government plans to substitute fingerprint authentication for that requirement.
not really using fingerprints as currency (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:not really using fingerprints as currency (Score:4, Funny)
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Cloning a fingerprint is just about as easy as cloning credit cards. So after you grate your fingers you can just print out some else's.
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then, of course, there is also the original method of just taking the original finger with you...
And a store clerk, are YOU going to stop the person who pressing a severed digit onto the payment pad?
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Cloning a fingerprint is just about as easy as cloning credit cards. So after you grate your fingers you can just print out some else's.
With a...wait for it...fingerPRINTer?
News At 11 (Score:3)
Dateline: Tokyo, April, 2016
Today, the US embassy issued a travel warning for Japan. When this reporter asked US ambassador Mumblechops for comment on this, he told me that the number of fingerless tourists returning to the US had crossed an unacceptable threshold. "They can't even hold the panties from the panty vending machines" he said indignantly.
My interview was cut short as the ambassador was called away to a meeting; I caught the phonetics "Love Hotel", an acronym I am unfamiliar with, but which no d
Re:News At 11 (Score:5, Informative)
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Dude, they'll cut off the fingers. After they use them to empty your accounts, they'll eat them with a whale and dolphin garnish.
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"I see you turned your shame into an asset"
q:Johnny Mnemonic
Re: News At 11 (Score:1)
gummy bears con costs you big (Score:2)
gummy bears con costs you big
http://www.phonearena.com/news... [phonearena.com]
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... [theregister.co.uk]
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All fiat currencies are virtual, a dollar bill is just an identifier to connect you with your actual currency.
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They're using them as an identifier to connect with your actual currency.
Exactly. The title of the story is nonsensical. If it were true, I'd go out and buy a bottle of ink and a pad of post-it notes -- and start "printing my own money."
Fingerprints are so easy to forge (Score:3, Insightful)
You leave them literally everywhere.
Why not optical retina scans?
But this still leave the problem that every reader must be trusted. We know from ATM machines, this is not the case, and once that biometric data is stolen... you can't change it unlike a password.
I envision a lot of suck in the future.
Three words... (Score:2)
> Why not optical retina scans?
Greetings, Warden Smithers! [imdb.com]
Missing fingers in japan is a thing (Score:1)
Just so you know
It's unique until it's digital (Score:5, Insightful)
is the certainty with which I presume anything digital will eventually be stolen if it matters enough to someone else.
This will work! (Score:4, Insightful)
Great idea, zero potential for / certainty of abuse! And so secure! Tricking a fingerprint reader requires special advanced technology [theregister.co.uk].
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Most decent, serious fingerprint scanners also measure temperature ...
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Which solves nothing. Just carry the dupe in your pocket until you whip it out at the scanner.
For "advanced" scanners that claim to check for a pulse and other horseshit, just press harder.
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Yeah, because heat is so very hard to come by.
The IQs around here are dropping so fast it's practically palpable.
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Maybe it's due to the lack of heat?
too expensive (Score:5, Insightful)
How about you make the country more affordable to visit instead?
Re: too expensive (Score:2, Interesting)
Having been here for several months: yeah, it's not the currency keeping people away, or even the high prices. While many Japanese people are friendly, you get the distinct impression that they don't want visitors.
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No, it sounds like EWE have a problem with it!
Typical homophone!
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Japanese people are xenophobic. It comes from having a very homogeneous ethnicity (after wiping out the real autoctones of the islands) and homogeneous culture. They don't want, and they don't like foreigners. Don't misunderstand their courtesy for respect or "we love foreigners". Their society is bigoted, archaic and ultra conformist.
Another Anglo expert.
Just wait until you get to Korea. Then we can talk.
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Japan isn't an expensive holiday. Going to the states costs more.
If you stay in a big hotel in Tokyo then yeah your going to get hammered. But that goes for any super high density city. Get out of tokyo and stay in Ryokans and the price is minimal.
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What are you comparing it to? Going to New York?
Just like you can get out of Tokyo for a "minimal price", there are countless dirt cheap b&bs all over US.
The only fair comparison is really the cost of getting there, which could be more or less, depending on where you live. For Canadians, it's much cheaper to go to US.
Once there, both countries have cheap and expensive ways of spending your time and money.
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Where as I would have said the cost of getting there was something they couldn't control. For example it is a hell of a lot cheaper for me to go to Japan than it is to the US. $400 return vs $1200 return. If you are in Canada driving across the border is always going to win on price.
Also I have travelled the US and Japan and what you are describing isn't really comparable. For example Tokyo has a population of 31 million vs new yorks 8.5 million. Density is simply much higher everywhere in Japan. So w
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Never had one in 10 years and 5 trips that even blinked at my blonde haired blue eyed gaijin family.
Fingerprints as digital ID (Score:2, Redundant)
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My guess is that 99% of tourists that are dumb enough to give up their fingerprints and financial information to a foreign government will be carrying a wallet, anyway.
I use Apple Pay constantly, daily, but I still carry a wallet with credit cards in it.
Just saying that your fingers will be safe since traditional robbery will still work pretty well.
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> My guess is that 99% of tourists that are dumb enough to give up their fingerprints and financial information to a foreign government will be carrying a wallet, anyway.
Fingerprints are mandatory for all tourists who enter Japan already. Lots of people who enter the US too. Are you suggesting that tourists should simply stop visiting Japan entirely?
This will not end well (Score:3, Insightful)
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Sure thing, here you go (Score:5, Funny)
Let's see. Give my fingerprint, financial info and positive identification information to a foreign government. What could possibly go wrong?
10 to 1 odds this is backed by the NSA.
How about no. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is like leaving my bank PIN number and bank card on everything that I touch. Do. Not. Want.
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The Japanese are already wearing face masks, perhaps in the future they will wear gloves too?
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What.
The US govt has been finger printing all visitors for forever now.
So how is Japan doing that any different?
Re:MY daighter is schedule to go on school trip... (Score:5, Interesting)
What are you smoking? Go to the US and you get fingerprinted. Christ I went to Universal Studios back in 2008 and they wanted your finger print at the gate to go with your ticket.
Japan has zero crime and there is no requirement to use this system. If you are really worried about the govt tracking your daughters purchases get her to pull cash out of an ATM (useful tip 711s ATMs accept foreign cards not all others do) then buy a Pasmo or Suica card in any one of a zillion train stations and load it up with the cash. That card can be used just about everywhere in tokyo. The rest of the time use the cash. Of course if she bends the card or loses it monies gone. But it's anonymous right!?!?
Your daughter going to Japan would be a really good thing for her. She will get to see another highly developed country that has almost nothing in common with the US. She will get to see a totally different way of doing things and hopefully she will come back more well rounded for it.
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You could learn something from them. Perhaps if you just sat back and looked and tried to understand you might realise the country is very different to what you described. Yes she can learn about a country that promotes the group over the individual. But why is that inherently bad? It is the antithesis of the American mindset but it isn't inherently wrong. She can learn about a country that has almost no crime, no crime because society comes first.
As for the patriarchal aspects of their society there ar
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This is sort of like how the idea of 'women and children first' only makes sense in a small society like a village. You are all in it together and it can make sure your genetics gets passed on, even if you die. These ideas work on small scales where there is personal investment with all involved. When you are just a faceless cog in nation of 10s of millions, its super easy for you to be consume
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I don't think it is that simple. The US still has lots of things that are done for the greater good at the cost of the individual. That is why there are taxes. That said they sit at the personal focus end of the spectrum, Europe sits with a greater focus on the group than the US and Japan is the next step along. The big difference between Europe and Japan is that the socialist view extends into the behaviours of the people as well as the financial.
When you look at the societies the US has the most indiv
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Japan is still very patriarchal, but has one of the highest ratio of single women in their late 30's and beyond of any country, and such a low birthrate that it is causing house prices to plummet around Japan as the population shrinks. It is perfectly acceptable in Japan for women to pursue a career above marriage, even if the glass ceiling is very much still there and very solid.
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Keep telling yourself that. I've travelled extensively throughout Europe, US and Asia, lived in some dodgy parts of London, rural Japan and a largish city in South East Asia, been targeted unsuccessfully by pickpockets in Barcelona, Milan, Rome and London. My wallet was stolen exactly once. It was taken from my kitchen table in my apartment in rural Japan while I was sleeping in the next room. Sometimes complacency is not a good thing - Japanese locals are all very paranoid about crime,
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Don't get all hyped up. Your government has been taking photo ID and fingerprints of all (legal) foreign visitors since ~2002. And as of April 1 this year you can only enter the US with a biometric passport which means my data will be stored in electronic form in one of the many databases the US operate and be susceptible to getting hacked.
The only entity that has my fingerprints is a foreign and rouge government - yours. I have been able to get around a biometric passport until now, so not even my governme
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Government is one thing. Stores and banks are another.
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Re: MY daighter is schedule to go on school trip.. (Score:1)
Revoke it? (Score:4, Insightful)
Excellent idea. Perhaps someone can quickly describe how to revoke a compromised identity when it's based on your fingerprint.
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Excellent idea. Perhaps someone can quickly describe how to revoke a compromised identity when it's based on your fingerprint.
You're in Japan. Do like the natives do, cut off someone else's finger.
Compromised prints? (Score:2)
And once my fingerprints are compromised, then what?
What about. . . (Score:2)
That's not the reason tourists stay away (Score:2)
Sorry, but "ease of payment" isn't why people don't come to Japan. It's not like paying is any different or more difficult than anywhere else. It's not even the price. It's your damn xenophobia. Teach your people some manners and we'll talk about visiting.
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I've spent about four months total in Japan, mostly in Osaka but some day trips out to the boonies. The Japanese people I encountered were almost universally polite and helpful. I got quite a few free drinks and even a free dinner from people who wanted to practice English.
Yes, there was one drunk guy unhappy to see a white guy on his street and yelled at me, one cashier who ignored me and one older guy who didn't want
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> one cashier who ignored me
This situation usally happens due to japanese people's fear of taking individual responsibility. If he/she started to serve you and failed e.g. due to perceived or real language barriers, he/she would bear the responsibility of ashaming the employer's reputation, which is a big no-no in Japan. Thus inaction is the safest venue but it doesn't mean the cashier has anything against you personally. Typically, he/she would call for the manager, who would then call for the boss to s
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Have you been there?
I've been there 5 times in the last 10 years. The people are LOVELY. I've had custom dinners cooked for me at bars. People driving me places then refusing any kind of payment. I've had someone come running after me to give me a bag I had left on the train. I've had a taxi driver say follow me when I was lost while driving and then refuse to let me pay the meter.
Every shop you walk into you are greeted by the staff. And I have been all over the country. From Hiroshima to Sapporo.
Biometrics not a panecea... (Score:3)
As Bruce Schneier noted, Biometrics not a panecea...
One more problem with biometrics: they don't fail well. Passwords can be changed, but if someone copies your thumbprint, you're out of luck: you can't update your thumb. Passwords can be backed up, but if you alter your thumbprint in an accident, you're stuck.
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Of course, there's always worse...
Get your hand caught in a shredder, and you'll have a hard time giving the hospital your thumbprint...
Shouldn't this be multi-factor? (Score:2)
I don't see how this is better than a credit card (Score:2)
Now, Japan is well known for preferring cash to plastic but then if you're going to get a business to buy into this complicated scheme and run a fingerprint scanner Point of Sale wouldn't they be just as likely to take cards? And if they don't I'm stuck with cash anyway.
Ready for the 2020 Paralympics? (Score:2)
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That's fine. It's not the Special Olympics. You don't need to worry about being invited. ;-)
Biometrics are not secret! (Score:2)
The big flaw in their plan is that biometrics are not secret and cannot be changed. If you are tracking people who do not want to be tracked, like prisoners, criminal suspects or parolees these are really good attributes. The endpoints also have to be trusted clients, which is also a tricky to enforce security model. If someone can steal or reverse engineer a trusted terminal it will lead to uncontrollable fraud.
It's a bit like having everyone pay with their SSN if your SSN was irremovably tattooed on yo
Japan ... Crime ... WTF? (Score:2)
Japan is one of the few countries where you could accidentally drop a wallet full of cash and have one of the following happen to you:
1. Go back and find the wallet still on the floor cash intact.
2. Have someone run after you and give you your wallet cash intact.
3. Go to the local police station and get given your wallet cash intact.
There's a lot of things that come to mind when I think of Japan but crime is definitely at the very bottom of that list.
Bad idea (Score:3)
If they make it required, I guess I will never visit Japan. Fingerprints should not be used for biometrics. Period.
Using fingerprints and allowing a third-party to have access to that data is unacceptable. Not only because the government should have no need to track what people are doing but because the gov should not have fingerprint registration data (which will be horribly abused) . Every time a national database is searched, if your data is in there, you are being searched without probable cause.
Stand up for your rights, people... and the rights of your children. Once you give this data to the government (or big business), it will NEVER be erased or restricted, regardless of claims or laws- it will go into huge databases and shared between all agencies and used however they want for as long as they want.
There is only one safer and practical biometric I know of- that is deep vein palm scan. That registration data cannot be readily abused. It can't be latently collected like DNA, fingerprints, and face recognition can. You have to know you are registering/enrolling when it happens. You don't leave evidence of it all over the place. When you go to use it, you know you are using it every time. And on top of all that, it is accurate, fast, reliable, unchanging, live-sensing, and cheap. If you must participate in a biometric, this is the one you should insist on using.
Example: http://www.m2sys.com/palm-vein... [m2sys.com]
But we also need to realize that IT IS NOT EVERYONE'S BUSINESS WHAT WE ALL DO. The first step in securing freedom is privacy. When you are tracked, you are losing your freedom, whether you realize it or not.
A few problems with fingerprint authentication. (Score:1)
1) common condition as people age is loss of fingerprints
2) very easy to spoof - various techniques to both record and then make a plastic overlay
3) worst case fingers can be detached from person
All forms of biometric Id suffer from above to greater or lesser extent. They make great form of Id but any form of authentication ultimately needs some additional data in head
Google is already 'fingerprint free' (Score:1)
makes data outside Japan safer (Score:1)
The good side of this is that more and more cyber criminals will flock to Japan and Japanese gov websites for one stop shopping: credit card and personal data for vacationing owners all in one place. So our data elsewhere in the world will be safer.