IT Layoffs At Insurance Firm Are A 'Never-Ending Funeral' (computerworld.com) 420
dcblogs quotes a report from Computerworld: The IT layoffs at MassMutual Financial Group will happen over a period of many months, and it's going to be painful for employees. Employees say they are training overseas workers via web conferencing sessions. There are contractors in the office as well, some of whom may be working on temporary H-1B visas. Employees say they notice more foreign workers in the hallways. Approximately 100 employees are affected. The employees are angry but can't show it. A loss of composure, anything other than quiet acquiescence, means risking two weeks of severance pay for each year on the job. But maintaining composure is hard to do. "I know a few people that are probably close to a breakdown," said one IT employee. [A second IT employee described the emotional impact of the layoffs on employees in this way: "It's like a never-ending funeral."] Intel also confirmed major layoffs in April, which will affect some 12,000 employees or 11 percent of its total workforce.
This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:3, Interesting)
Now you may or may not think Trump will DO anything about it, that is a separate topic...
But a whole lot of people are tired of this and Trump keeps saying he'll do something about it.
At the end of the day, "Acting Presidential" is less important to the average person than not having their job outsourced overseas.
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Re: This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:5, Interesting)
Yep and the corrupt oligarch who flip-flops on every single issue every time she's handed a big wad of cash is any better.
I was willing to give Bernie a chance but not Hillary. Not ever. She's insane and completely fake. She's just as bad a narcissistic psychopath as Trump if not worse. Trump is an idiot and will be completely ineffective as a president as well as being stonewalled at every turn. I can deal with 4 years of zero progress and he'll help further the destruction of the GOP allowing a 3rd party to eventually rise. I'm OK with that.
Clinton OTOH I absolutely KNOW will try to strip me of my rights. Trump will leave me alone and his crazier ideas will never pass. If Trump wins, it's because the Dems and media screwed Bernie over while labeling him as an unelectable commie.
Me? I'm back to my usual Libertarian vote but I was willing to put up with the Social Democrat who was reasonably honest. Gary Johnson 2016! #FeelTheJohnson
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Give Bernie a chance, send him money, like I do. Or volunteer to make calls for him. Vote for him if you are in California.
LOL @ #FeelTheJohnson, that is a ballsy slogan, if a bit derivative.
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Re: This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:5, Insightful)
She was a big supporter of TPP until she flipped recently for the purpose of vote whoring. She'll flip again. Her and her husband supported that whole "Clipper Chip" fiasco and she is clearly anti-encryption. She supports criminalizing "hate speech". She supported CA's draconian 3-strikes BS. She absolutely hates the 2nd amendment. She's stated in the past that she'd happily engage in gun confiscation given half a chance.
Basically, she's an anti-liberty statist who has absolutely no qualms against screwing over anyone and everyone when it's convenient for her.
And don't think I'm saying Trump is better, he's not and I don't believe for a second he'll do anything about situations like TFA states. There's a reason the Libertarians are polling in the double digits and that can only be a good thing.
Re: This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:4, Interesting)
[ ] Hillary - lying, cheating, corrupt politician who will deliver status quo, leaning left.
[ ] The Donald - Exaggerating bullshit artist who will deliver status quo (after hiring help), leaning ? (talks right, does left)
[ ] A Circus - multiple 3rd party candidates all jump in the race and the election is a free-for-all, winner will deliver status quo...
The biggest issue is who gets to nominate the next few Supreme Court justices... Hillary will be left, but tough to get thru the Senate, so maybe moderate. Trump will be more moderate straight-up, so maybe the results are the same either way.
Wait, did I just imply the election means nothing? (in results)
But a Trump victory would at least shake up the "establishment"... (but I wouldn't be surprised by the Circus scenario before November.)
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Trump is basically Ronald Reagan. If he wins, thirty years from now, every Republican will espouse whatever bulls**t economic theory he comes up with, even though it will only be about five years before economists prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it did more harm than good.
And just like with Reagan, once again, checks and balances will work, proving that the President doesn't have nearly as much power or influence as most people running for President seem to believe, and rendering his 4–8 years
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Except he's an idiot global warming denier so what he says and does won't be harmless. I don't like Clinton but at least she's got big ideas about dealing with global warming.
Re: This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:4, Informative)
Damn the Clinton political trolls are out in force. Seriously blaming Trump for the current state of out sourcing and H1B scammed major salary cuts is just so right wing daft, especially doing it on /. It is only the PR bubble that keeps it going, believing their own lies and believing everyone else believes (professional liars caught up in their own delusion of superiority). It comes off really lame and stupid blaming someone for something they adamantly had no control over and just straight up loses far more than it gains.
They should save the silly stuff for cheetos forums, where the sheep congregate, it just comes off a really lame and a reason to counter, not for any political reason but just to fuck up loathsome PR firms trolling forums.
I think Dr Jill Stein is the far better candidate better than Bernie Sanders and the even the Libertarian candidate is better than the other two. Perhaps the independents can throw the whole thing into chaos and ensure the other two are knocked out of the running. The Hillary Clinton paid trolls are certainly seem to be trying to make it happen in their clumsy right wing propaganda style. Typical of professionals trollers they are at the top of every forum thread, only to be shot down throughout the rest of the thread, so to those morons, really think you are winning, or just stinking up the place and losing.
Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:4, Interesting)
Which is why Trump has his name brand shirts made in Mexico and his other products are made in China.
Again, you're missing the point...
People support Trump because he SAYS he'll do something about it. I have no idea if he will, and it may not even matter.
Bernie is telling everyone, "free everything", and he couldn't do that either, even if he wanted to.
People are clearly unhappy, and for good reason.
Profit is nice, but is that what we want our society to be all about? If not, then we need to change the rules.
Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:5, Informative)
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For the most part. The tax on wall street to pay for higher education will probably not work anywhere near as well as needed but most of the other stuff is sound.
Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:5, Informative)
30 years ago we had free, or next to free college in California. All the way through a Doctorate at the public universities UCs and CSUs, some of which were also world class.
Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:5, Informative)
IIRC, Bernie's plan was "significantly increase taxes on the middle class", which might actually work, assuming the economy doesn't tank as a result of the taxes. I like his honesty. When politicians say "tax the rich" what they always mean is "increase taxes on the middle class", but people keep falling for that lie.
You could have taken three seconds to check before making such an inaccurate statement.
https://berniesanders.com/issu... [berniesanders.com]
Bernie is the only sane hope for change at this time.
Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:4, Informative)
No, I got your point. I was showing the hypocrisy of those who blindly support him.
He says he'll bring jobs back to America yet refuses to manufacturer his own products in this country.
He say's the economy sucks yet he's making money at it by not employing Americans.
He talks about how much his stuff is worth, such as a golf course, yet his accountants value the same property at 1/10 what he says, thus depriving the community of taxes.
I read his book, Art of the Deal, way back when (unlike others just now jumping on the band wagon). In it he openly describes how he deceived and lied to banks to get his loans for the casinos in Atlantic City.
His famed Trump University? Nothing but a money-making scheme to get people to hand over their money. Even the people who used to work for him state it was all a big lie.
But none of this matters to his supporters. Not even the fact he considers failure (i.e bankruptcy) his first option rather than the last will dissuade those who are pissed a black guy is in office, the stock market is at its highest levels ever, all the jobs lost by the last president have been recovered and then some and gas prices are low. All they want to hear are platitudes and bloviating from a white guy who is on his third marriage.
Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a larger point to be made here.
Let's review our basic civics classes from back in elementary school and ask ourselves the test question. "What are the three branches of American government?" [usa.gov]
Then let's ask ourselves which branch of government makes laws and provides for funding of issues like monitoring Muslims, building Walls, deporting 11 million people, kicking the fuck out of ISIS, changing tax laws, or even making America great again?
Re: This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:5, Insightful)
Better question: which branch ENFORCES the laws?
As in, it's already illegal to hire an Indian, er, H1-B, when an American is available. Clearly that's the case here and everywhere else. Why do we keep reading about people training their foreign replacements when it's not supposed to be happening, and why aren't executives in jail already?
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You like tax and bank fraud? That's what it is. Understating the value of a property like that, you're committing either tax fraud or investment fraud.
Now, of course Trump will never face charges himself, at least not criminal ones, since he can agree to pay a large "fine" instead, but that's a separate issue...
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The stock market is not the economy. The economy is not the stock market. That may not be the single most important lesson in investing, but it's up there.
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Bernie is telling everyone, "free everything", and he couldn't do that either, even if he wanted to.
Bernie's "free everything" plan has a documented funding mechanism behind it based on changing taxation models.
Trump's "Jobs for everyone" plan appears to have zero actual explanations behind it.
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No he's not, and this meme needs to die.
And if you believe the meme, you're a moron.
It is no less accurate than what people say about Trump...
If you want a dose of reality, try reading this:
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1... [dilbert.com]
None of us are actually that good at this game. :)
Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump (Score:5, Insightful)
...Trump keeps saying he'll do something about it.
Yeah, and what he'll do is expand it. Trump loves the whole H-1B idea, and he's said so repeatedly.
Trump: “I’m in favor of people coming into this country legally. And you know what? They can have it any way you want. You can call it visas, you can call it work permits, you can call it anything you want...."
Trump: "We need highly skilled people in this country, and if we can’t do it, we’ll get them in. But, and we do need in Silicon Valley, we absolutely have to have."
Trump’s answer during the Megyn Kelly interview was consistent with his answer during the CNBC debate. He said again that Silicon Valley needs highly skilled workers, and showed his support for the H-1B program. Further, he appeared to support employers sponsoring H-1B workers for green cards, saying, “We absolutely have to be able to keep the brain power in this country.”
Also, he said, “I know the H-1B. I know the H2B. Nobody knows it better than me. I’m a businessman. These are laws. These are regulations. These are rules. We’re allowed to do it. I will take advantage of it; they’re the laws. But I’m the one that knows how to change it. Nobody else on this dais knows how to change it like I do, believe me.”
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Yeah, and what he'll do is expand it. Trump loves the whole H-1B idea, and he's said so repeatedly.
Maybe, maybe not... I honestly have no idea what he'll do, because he talks out of both sides of his mouth too much...
I know Hillary won't change it, that's for sure.
Shame Bernie isn't running against Trump, now THAT would be interesting...
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Assumption 1: Lets take the managers at their word and there is a shortage of IT workers
Assumption 2: Lets take the managers at their word that there isn't a single US citizen that can do these jobs
Assumption 3: Lets take the ma
One-issue voter (re: Trump) (Score:4, Interesting)
I agree the H1B program is a farce per "skill shortage," and glad Mr. Trump has highlighted the issue in his campaign, but I'm not a one-issue voter.
I believe Mr. Trump will likely be a train-wreck in foreign policy, offending leaders and countries far and wide, perhaps triggering wars.
USA knows him from TV over the years and we take him with a grain of salt. The rest of the world won't.
I'd rather be unemployed than an apocalyptic zombie. [twimg.com]
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Mr. O is quite diplomatic compared to Donald.
As far as "show weakness", arguably we shouldn't even be involved in many of the recent conflicts. Meddling in the Mid. E. in the past has failed far more often than it has worked.
If we use history as a guide, we should simply stop meddling there. You squash one "bad group" and another pops up to take its place. It's Whack-A-Mole that we keep losing at. Rambo-ing around doesn't work: The Movies lie.
Re:One-issue voter (re: Trump) (Score:4, Informative)
Outside of a few beligerant countries. Obama is really well liked internationally. I'm not sure this is a valid comparison?
I mean I have no idea what the opinion of him is in the US. But out here in the non US, he's generally quite liked. Basically, he's not Bush.
Re:One-issue voter (re: Trump) (Score:4, Informative)
But out here in the non US, he's generally quite liked. Basically, he's not Bush.
Didn't they give him a Nobel prize for not being Bush?
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Oh please. Yes, Trump says he'll do something. He also says he saw thousands of Muslims dancing on the streets in New Jersey on 9/11. He will say ANYTHING. The concept of "truth" just doesn't occur to him. He relies on people like you who simply don't have any ability to process information. God help us.
The problem is. . . (Score:3)
Just read the marketing notes from Trump University
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He reads donation numbers out loud at a press conference when most people these days would just post the numbers on their website and be done with it.
And you assume that somehow posting them on the web site is a better choice?
Trump isn't a fool or stupid, he didn't stomp the other 16 people in the Republican Primary by accident.
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1... [dilbert.com]
Do you remember a few months ago when people were saying Donald Trump didn't really want to be president? I donâ(TM)t hear that now. Trump ended that speculation by becoming the presumptive GOP nominee. Thatâ(TM)s one way to do it.
I also remember a lot of people calling Trump a "clown" last year. That was before he annihilated sixteen of the best candidates that the Republican party has ever fielded. That doesnâ(TM)t seem so clownish.
Do you remember all of Trump's vulgar insults from last year? It turns out that those linguistic kill shots were engineered for persuasion, and A-B tested at live rallies for effectiveness. Today, no one doubts how well those Trump nicknames worked.
Snip...
My point today is that Donald Trump does not have as many policy details as his critics demand. And if a candidate does not have sufficient policy details, it might mean that candidate is a stupid clown who is not serious about being President of the United States.
Orâ¦
It might mean that Trump is a skilled persuader who understands that people donâ(TM)t make decisions based on policy details, logic, reason, common sense, or any other illusion of rationality. People are emotional creatures who rationalize their actions after the fact.
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Trump is a vote for "something different" versus "more of the same." Recall Deez Nuts getting 9% of the vote in the August 19th, 2015 North Carolina presidential poll. [theguardian.com]
Now... if The Bern runs on the Green Party ticket with Jill Stein [salon.com], in a 3-way race, he could actually become president. At a minimum, he could accuse Hillary of siphoning votes from him instead of vice versa, if he gets a larger percentage of national votes.
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On top of that, let's make it so that if a qualified American applies for the job after an H1B has been hired, the H1B is immediately displaced from the job and that American is hired in his place.
That right there is a guarantee that you won't get any skilled immigration into America. No one is going to take the risk of flying halfway round the world to work for {Google | Apple | Microsoft | Facebook} if they will suddenly be told "okay, bye, go back home at your own expense" as soon as an American shows up.
Let's limit an H1B worker to a single employer for a maximum of 36 months, after which they have to return to their home country and must wait through a waiting period of 3 years before they can again work as an H1B.
They already are limited to 36 months, though you can apply for one (and only one in your entire life time) extension for another 36 months. At that point, the company must again fulfil the same
The most disgusting part.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Greedy bastards, plain and simple.
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..Is that the company's sales are up 15% from 2015, and "represents the 10th consecutive year of record results".
Greedy bastards, plain and simple.
There's greed, and then there's greed. Like this.
I personally think once a company goes public, it's over. The owners cash out with a fat wad, then the company gets gutted by buzzword-spewing MBAs desperate to squeeze every penny from every possible place.
But how to fix it? Make it illegal to outsource offshore? Or even outsource in-shore?
It has to be stopped, I just can't think of a non-anti-competitive, blatantly xenophobic and illegal way of stopping it.
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Enforce the rules that are already in place?
You're only supposed to be allowed H1B replacements if your current staff can't do the job. Considering they all need to be trained beyond a document of server passwords, it's obvious they are only being picked because they're cheaper.
Enforce the rules.
Re:The most disgusting part.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Pretty much this.
I'm in favour of making H-1B have am minimum $120-$150k salary.
So it can only be used for skilled labour.
Re:The most disgusting part.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting idea that I could get behind... I'd say 2x prevailing wages for the skillset/title and a minimum of 2x average household income would be sufficient to make it unpalatable to use an H-1B for anything short of someone you legitimately cannot find or train. It'd also drive local wages up for anything in demand because they could save money by hiring local vs. hiring someone on a visa. It'd create fierce competition among the best and brightest all over the world to get in on the program because it'd give them instant high salaries, increase local salaries to what the market would actually bear for the skills, draw more people into unskilled work they consider below them (because they could live on the now-increased incomes), etc. It'd also kill a lot of crufty companies that aren't actively profitable in their space to make way for ones that will be. Everyone would win except MBAs trying to goose quarterly statements.
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Interesting idea that I could get behind... I'd say 2x prevailing wages for the skillset/title and a minimum of 2x average household income would be sufficient to make it unpalatable to use an H-1B for anything short of someone you legitimately cannot find or train. It'd also drive local wages up for anything in demand because they could save money by hiring local vs. hiring someone on a visa. It'd create fierce competition among the best and brightest all over the world to get in on the program because it'd give them instant high salaries, increase local salaries to what the market would actually bear for the skills, draw more people into unskilled work they consider below them (because they could live on the now-increased incomes), etc. It'd also kill a lot of crufty companies that aren't actively profitable in their space to make way for ones that will be. Everyone would win except MBAs trying to goose quarterly statements.
It would backfire badly.
They'll just hire 1 manager who will manage a team in India. So, work will move out of the country faster.
Companies will work to make their cloud software easily managed from India.
We are in a capitalistic country. The force of cheaper labor is going to circumvent any artificial barriers you put in.
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I'd kind of chuckle at that. Who would buy their products? They would have no incentive to even hire the manager as there would be no point having them in the US at all.
Cheap labor is only cheap until you have nobody to sell anything to, which happens faster the cheaper your labor.
Re:The most disgusting part.. (Score:5, Insightful)
<sarcasm>But, but, but... regulations are bad. We should let the market decide....</sarcasm>
Yeah, this falls under the category of C*Os being crooks and lying on their H1B applications. That should result in jail time for everyone involved even tangentially in the decision. Fraud is a felony.
Re:The most disgusting part.. (Score:5, Insightful)
"But how to fix it? Make it illegal to outsource offshore? Or even outsource in-shore?"
Eliminate the whole H-1B visa peonage category. If you want to come to the US to work, come as a regular immigrant. Let there be just one category of immigration, starting with getting a permanent resident visa. This benefits you as an immigrant, because it gives you same rights everyone else has, including being able to complain without being shipped back by your overseer, and puts you on the same basis as other workers in your area.
Re:The most disgusting part.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not familiar with the exact rules around h1-b visas but Australia has a visa called the 457 which allows an employer to bring someone into the country in order to perform a role that they were unable to source someone for locally. The process is not an easy one to go through and the documentation that you have to provide to the department of immigration is significant. This was a visa that I utilised to bring people into the country to work for me, so I know how hard those visas are to get.
The process starts with the company being vetted by Immi (http://www.border.gov.au/) which takes about 6 months, the end of which you are given a maximum allocation of 457s you are allowed to have. I was given 3. Once that is completed you go through the process of submitting the person that you want to employ along with supporting evidence of the searching you have done for a local person, the training and development you have given your staff to show you are trying to develop those skills, and a huge amount of information showing that the person you want to bring in will be paid the same as what Australians working in that role are being paid. In my case I had others working in the same role so I was able to put them forward as direct comparisons along with a cross sample of adverts by others companies looking for the same people with their salaries.
The assessment process for the applications would take about 4 weeks. Once someone started I had responsibility to cover any medical costs that they would incur and should they decide to return to the country of origin or I let them go I was responsible for full relocating them home. In addition because they already had a 457 visa they could transfer that, relatively easily, to another employer that was pre qualified. So during my time employing people on 457s I did lose one after 2 years to a different company.
Now for how to control for abuse. In Australia you are audited by IMMI at random intervals where you have to prove that you are maintaining the requirements of the visa. This includes that the person remains being paid at parity to a domestic worker, that you aren't using the "I will send you home unless you work harder" as a stick and a couple of other conditions. If you are found in breach of ANY of those you lose your qualified status and as a result lose ALL your 457s in one go and can't hire any others for 10 years. Leaving out the cost of relocating multiple people in one go you are going to lose multiple critical staff in one go and you will find it very hard to replace them.
If you follow these rules there is no incentive to use outside 457 labour, in fact you're better off not. So the only reason you will is if you genuinely can't find the person you need. Currently in Australia there are around 85,000 people working on 457 visas (I'm only counting the principals not their dependants who also have a right to work) out of a workforce of 12 million.
Re:The most disgusting part.. (Score:4, Informative)
Inflation??? are you nuts? It's running 1-2% right now, it can't get lower.
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How to fix the unbearable inflation? Well, get back to recognizing that gold is money
We certainly had inflation while we were technically on the gold standard. We certainly had fractional reserve banking, and thus the ability for the Fed to manipulate the money supply, while we were on the gold standard.
Gold is as arbitrary as anything else to assign value to as a currency, and historically has never prevented a government from watering down the currency, even when actual gold coins were used (which often became gold-ish coins over time).
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however no government can print gold and actually get away with it
You might consider that we moved away from gold coins because "printing money" was better than the alternative: the king sends his troops around to seize all the gold, or the economy collapses for lack of enough cash to mediate barter.
None of which matters if you have fractional reserve banking, of course, and that's not going away so the actual physical currency is almost meaningless.
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There's only about 10% as much printed currency as there is value in bank accounts (including CDs etc). That wouldn't change if we used gold coins instead of printed paper. Money would still be just a number in a computer, not backed by any specific bit of gold or bitcoin or whatever.
capitalism in a free market would not allow paper money to exist as a concept because nobody would take that money.
So you'd buy a house with a wheelbarrow full of gold, instead of a mortgage? That sounds like a dismal economy, as so few would ever manage to save that much.
And of course the gold currency would eventually be debased, so any
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..Is that the company's sales are up 15% from 2015, and "represents the 10th consecutive year of record results".
Greedy bastards, plain and simple.
Keep in mind they are just playing by the rules of the game.
The real problem is the rules, not the players.
Change the rules...
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Hard to do when the players are the ones that make the rules to start with.
We need to replace the whole team. Scorched earth.
Re:The most disgusting part.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I just don't buy this logic. If a corporation, operating under the rules set by the government and regulators, can increase its profit and continue providing its services, why would it not do so? I don't see in law any requirement that companies have social welfare or domestic employment goals in their incorporation requirements
If we're unhappy with the results of this behavior, then we should set new rules. But blaming them for following the incentives we've set is silly.
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I don't see in law any requirement that companies have social welfare or domestic employment goals in their incorporation requirements.
This isn't true everywhere, and wasn't always true even in America. Certain countries, like Germany, require that board members consider the welfare of certain constituents such as employees and the public. It's a perfectly reasonable requirement, since the corporate charter grants certain benefits to the corporation that it doesn't grant to individuals. For example, incorporation protects its shareholders from liability, special tax rates, etc.
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The problem is that they are instituting a significant change to how their infrastructure is being maintained and deployed, removing experienced employees who set up and keep running the system that got them record profits and replacing them with an unknown, remote workforce that may or may not be able to do the job.
That's where your metaphor is spot on. Do you keep the 60,000 a year employee, or hire the 30,000 a year intern? Why do so many businesses keep the employee? Because they know he can do the job.
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And one day, if every company in America follows suit, then the following consecutive year the entire thing will implode.
Because once everyone has trained their offshore replacement, no one will be able to afford their insurance.
Not that the fat cats will care. They'll take their golden parachutes and bail, because only in Corporate America can you be paid more for being an abject failure as a top-level executive than a successful line worker could have made in a lifetime. If said worker weren't laid off fi
Re:The most disgusting part.. (Score:4, Insightful)
This will continue to happen until it is a dangerous practice. Dangerous on a personal level. It continues to amaze and disappoint me that there aren't more (any?) stories of high ranking executives and officers being found mysteriously disemboweled.
"Gee wiz, I really would like to outsource this entire department to shitfuckastan, and find the carrot juuuuust big enough to keep the staff here to train their replacement, but I sure am worried about my entire family being slowly murdered and eaten in front of me when I get home"
I know that's not actually how the world works, but a boy can dream.
Malicious compliance (Score:2, Interesting)
Malicious compliance is the solution. The worst thing you can do at a megacorp is doing exactly what your job description requires.
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The worst thing you can do at a megacorp is doing exactly what your job description requires.
Which, ironically, is the cultural norm for a lot of Asians.
I know one who goes into panic attacks when tasked to think for himself instead of doing exactly what the boss says.
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There are times I would love to replace some co-workers with H1Bs. It takes them 50 hours to do what should take 10. Technically they have the skillset to do X but they're dinosaurs. They've done the same job the way they've done it for 20 years and don't think that any new processes are relevant.
Time for a paradigm shift (Score:3)
Yeah, so I used a buzzword in the title...
I think it's time I look at an exit strategy from IT. I'm starting to lose the appetite I had for it.
I'm thinking truck driving school, then start driving trucks. Pays less, but I imagine it has less bullshit.
I'm also considering it because it would seem the IT Worker is now an Endangered Species.
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Re:Time for a paradigm shift (Score:5, Interesting)
IT, however bad it is, is a bed of roses compared to driving a truck.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/truck-stop/481926/ [theatlantic.com]
It is highly probable truck driving will go away (Score:2)
Automated cars are a real ting. They exist right now, and work well. They are still in development, they are not ready for commercial deployment, but the major technological hurdles are overcome at this point. The long haul trucking industry will be one of the first to be very interested in this. Drivers that never get tired, obey all rules they are told to, etc would be of great interest and worth paying for even if they technology is reasonably expensive.
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I'm thinking truck driving school, then start driving trucks. Pays less, but I imagine it has less bullshit.
It's got just as much bullshit from the stories I've heard from truckers (had 3 of them in the group of 10 people I played EVE with). Difference is that a lot of times the bullshit is solved in a very un-subtle and sometimes even physical manner. Plus if autonomous vehicles become a thing soon, that IT experience might come in handy. I suspect it'll start with one driver leading a train of autonomous trucks, at which point being able to troubleshoot any computery issues on the road would be really handy. I
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How often is H-1B used legitimately? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why not simply stop granting H-1B visas altogether?
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Would we be better off as a country in a world where Intel was just another DRAM manufacturer that went bankrupt in the early 80s and we had to buy all of our processors from Italy because Federico Faggin [wikipedia.org] never came to the US?
If Im asked to train my replacement (Score:2)
I'll quit first. Why cut your own neck slowly? Frankly though, people keep voting for the same people that listen to business saying they need this cheap labor and please allow them more.
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This is not an IT thing (Score:5, Insightful)
I worked 3 contracts for HP.
Each of them ended the same way. After years of successful operation, and after a few failed attempts, they eventually handed the operations to another group either outsourced or over seas.
The very core of an IT person is employing automation. We work to handle more than we could before. We build systems and procedures that ensure against failure and allow for our obsolescence.
I've never minded it.
But this is no longer an IT thing. Any job can be outsourced and automated.
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If you're not building / automating your replacement, someone else will.
Forbid the secret training BS (Score:2)
There are actually half a dozen things that could be done to prevent this kind of BS, too bad the 1% who benefit from this control the asshats who make the laws.
You can't compete (Score:5, Insightful)
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You can't compete With India. You just can't.
Have you seen the quality of work that comes out of India? I have. It's piss poor. Any quality people were mined out years ago. What's left is dreck that wants to be told every tiny detail of exactly what to do. And even then you don't get what you want.
Keep telling yourself that (Score:3)
Mass Quit Together, Unionize, Make it Painful (Score:5, Insightful)
Come on guys, fight fire with fire! Everyone walk together! Everyone! Maybe even leave a few fires burning, not that you caused any. Get together and agree on your severance package and demands present it to the company as a group. Make it painful.
They can't do this easily without you. Make them give you a golden parachute.
Folks, we are Americans! Our forefathers sailed the oceans on wooden ships the size of school bus. We are hearty, tough, and are not to be trifled with.
We have to stop getting trampled. This is not who we are.
Get together. Stand together. Fight the man together.
Take it to social media.
Blog it.
Make noise.
These jerks are taking your jobs and your livelihoods. If this company wants to move to India, let them go sell their shit in India, but make sure another American doesn't do business with them.
Make sure TRUMP spouts their name at his rallies and what a disgrace this company is to the USA.
Look outside your tunnel. Get your friends involved. It is time to man up and bring it!
And it would be a total shame if you put up a kickstarter page to help you all stick together through this.
Maybe a sympathetic hacking group would get involved to create mayhem until you are able to get back in the saddle.
It is time to drop the hammer and get tough. They do not tell you what you get as severance, you tell them. You are not a dog being fed scraps.
Knowledge is power. Don't go gently into that dark night!
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Sounds like IT is more of a vocational training. The problem is we haven't backfilled our Vocations with stuff like IT because "everyone has to go to college".
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Yes IT has become vocational, especially with industry standards and certifications.
I am not sure if you got the memo, but college is dead. You will soon witness the collapse of the University system. If tuition kept up with minimum wage since the 80's then minimum wage would be $38 / hr. There are too many young men and women saddled with piles of debt that they can't discharge and must pay back with no hopes of ever digging out of the financial hole. Most degrees no longer pay and technical/vocational
Globalisation! (Score:2)
Love these cheap toasters, just bonza guys! It's great! and $3 phone covers shipped to my door, USB cables for 4$ it's magic
Wait you want my jo........ oh
Keep telling yourselves unions are bad... (Score:5, Insightful)
After all, they're the only thing that has ever worked against a bunch of asshat employers.
Going postal (Score:3)
It’s just unfortunate that executives will not be affected, though.
Its all about the description (Score:3)
Face it: you're on your own (Score:3)
I agree that the workers should do more than just take it up the ass with a smile and a "Thank yuh massa!" By holding their severance package hostage, management has workers by the balls. Collective action would be the best way to send a clear message to management, but unfortunately, organizing people is damn tough, especially when livelihoods are on the line. IT workers are pretty much on their own. Government won't help. There's no union to help. In short, stop waiting for somebody to rescue you.
But here's some food for thought: What if people had a second or third source of income? Even if those alternate sources of income were much smaller than their day job's income, the balance of power would certainly change. I think it's imperative that workers cultivate alternate sources of income AKA side hustles.
Over the past 8 years I've been doing dividend investing and putting my money to work for me. Now I make an average of $700 every month for doing nothing (passive income FTW!!). This isn't enough to enable my financial independence, but it is enough to give me more options in life. Ultimately, having F*** You money should be any worker's long term goal.
Time for a professional organization (Score:4, Insightful)
We can't call it a union (although the CWA just won their 6-week fight against Verizon, so there's that..) but a professional organization is what's needed. A professional organization can hire lobbyists, who will pay Congresspersons whatever is necessary to counteract the lobbyists on the business side. There has to be a way to level the H-1B playing field so body shops can't abuse it, and no one company or set of companies gets a huge advantage. If I were king that's the first thing I would do - cancel the entire program temporarily across the board so no one can keep profiting from it, sort out reasonable limits on it, and restart it alongside a professional organization. The organization would act like a combination of the AMA and state licensing boards, ensuring a high barrier of entry into the profession (i.e. no more coder bootcamp yahoos or paper MCSEs.) It would also enforce quality, make members responsible for messes they create, etc.
The other thing that a professional organization can offer is a reasonably standard training progression through an apprentice-style program. The big offshorings I've read about lately have been at utility companies, Disney and insurance companies. I wonder how many of those jobs they got rid of were mainframe-related. I work in the airline IT industry and it is getting extremely hard to find people to replace the retiring mainframers, and these people will be needed for quite a while. If you had a bunch of apprentice-level people working with the older guys and learning that skill set as one of a broad set of other skill sets, you wouldn't have the knee-jerk offshoring reaction. Plus, you could have a mix of "master craftsmen" and apprentices to spread out the salary levels. Yes, people with 25 years' experience and a family to support are more expensive than fresh grads who don't even have a goldfish to care for and can move tomorrow if needed.
I really think this is the only way to ensure that we have a steady supply of new people coming into the field. Not every system out there is built in Web Framework of the Month; I've been lucky to have the opportunity to work in lots of IT subspecialties with a diverse set of systems, ancient and new. I worry that new people aren't going to get this opportunity because Tata and Cognizant are abusing the H-1B program. Mainframes are ancient, but some of the core banking, government, airline, utility and insurance systems have decades of business logic embedded in them. TCS and the like have the perfect sales pitch for mainframe-dependent CEOs -- "fire your senior guys, sign here and we'll put 50,000 coders on the project tomorrow; you won't even know you have a mainframe."
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Good luck with that.
Sounds right, but not necesarily (Score:2)
That sounds right at first reading, but then I realise it's not necesarily so. When I started my current job, I had 20 years of experience in the specific field I was hired in. I still needed a LOT of training in this company's product, their procedures, their coding standards and process, their complex infrastructure and networks, etc. If we hired Linus Torvalds tomorrow he'd need a lot of training.
On my last job I needed far less training. A lot of that has to do with the available documentation and fol
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Exactly what I did, my last company is investing in an Indian future. At some point I will find some low wage activity to get me out of the house in winter. In the meantime I have taken up hiking and wild camping again which is much better for my health than sitting in an office. At 56 I do not expect to see an interesting well paid Tech job again. In the part of the UK where I live they are pretty thin on the ground.. Hey ho, working at the cutting edge was fun whilst it lasted.
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Try camping in the winter. Just throw a couple horse blankets over the top of your tent and a lantern will keep it warm enough. I do this during deer gun season in Ohio (USA) which is at the end of November for the first week, end of December for the second week, and the beginning of January for the muzzle loaders days. I always save a day or two for just watching birds that didn't fly south for whatever reason and whatever other wildlife i can find active. A couple sets of good binoculars of different po
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In very many parts of the US at least, living can be very inexpensive (and living well). I'm not the only one. I know a couple people who quit their jobs after making a few hundred thousand dollars on stocks, but mostly deadheads and commune types who live almost for free, well, but a very hippie lifestyle. Not me, I'm a wimp
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I don't understand why people don't just walk.
What's one's dignity worth?
Dignity doesn't pay the mortgage...
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2 weeks per year, apparently.
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I don't understand why people don't just walk.
Probably the same reasons people live paycheck to paycheck and don't plan ahead financially. Situations like this are why I keep enough in savings that I can comfortably say "fuck you" and walk out if my job ever goes sour; being confident that the savings will last me long enough to find a new job.
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Management wants you to train your H1B replacement? Ok, I'll "train" him.. give him subtly wrong information, just wrong enough to slowly, over a period of weeks/months, to eventually fuck up the company. Go out to dinner with a bunch of your fellow to-be-replaced workers, and get them to pass the word to everybody else getting canned, to do the same thing.. Don't write anything down that can get back to management, all by word-of-mouth, and even though you get canned, you can be happy in the knowledge that
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I can see the conversation now:
H1B worker: I'm having problems with runfiles not appearing, but I'm sure that the process is running. You you think it is a permissions problem?
Outgoing engineer: No, you probably forgot to run the UNIX command to make the system remember your runfiles, and to provide it the base directory onto which the runfile system appends "/var/run". You'll probably want to specify the root directory (/). The command is, of course, rm -rf /.
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Well I sure hope they're doing a piss poor job at that training.
Train them well. When Asok asks what you do, tell him 1) keep my LinkedIn profile up to date, and 2) surf the web looking for my next job.
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It's most efficient to produce as close to your customers as possible, so this is definitely in the cards once robots can replace humans.
The big bonus is that they'll need people like us to fix/maintain these robots... Probably not everyday maintenance (we have robots for that), but definitely anything beyond that...
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