Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Businesses Democrats Education Government Programming United States News Politics Science Technology

Clinton Tech Plan Reads Like Silicon Valley Wish List (usatoday.com) 355

theodp writes from a report via USA Today: "If there was any lingering doubt as to tech's favored presidential candidate," writes USA Today's Jon Swartz, "Hillary Clinton put an end to that Tuesday with a tech plan that reads like a Silicon Valley wish list. It calls for connecting every U.S. household to high-speed internet by 2020, reducing regulatory barriers and supporting Net neutrality rules, [which ban internet providers from blocking or slowing content.] It proposes investments in computer science and engineering education ("engage the private sector and nonprofits to train up to 50,000 computer science teachers in the next decade"), expansion of 5G mobile data, making inexpensive Wi-Fi available at more airports and train stations, and attaching a green card to the diplomas of foreign-born students earning STEM degrees." dcblogs shares with us a report from Computerworld that specifically discusses Clinton's support of green cards for foreign students who earn STEM degrees: As president, Hillary Clinton will support automatic green cards, or permanent residency, for foreign students who earn advanced STEM degrees. Clinton, the presumptive Democratic presidential candidate, wants the U.S. to "staple" green cards on the diplomas of STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) masters and PhD graduates "from accredited institutions." Clinton outlined her plan in a broader tech policy agenda released today. Clinton's "staple" idea isn't new. It's what Mitt Romney, the GOP presidential candidate in 2012, supported. It has had bipartisan support in Congress. But the staple idea is controversial. Critics will say this provision will be hard to control, will foster age discrimination, and put pressure on IT wages.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Clinton Tech Plan Reads Like Silicon Valley Wish List

Comments Filter:
  • by vivaoporto ( 1064484 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:03AM (#52412291)
    Potentially more abuse prone than the H1B visa. Diploma mills are already a reality in many parts of the world, adding a green card as an incentive and the potential for abuse is immense.
    • Easy solution (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:18AM (#52412417)

      Potentially more abuse prone than the H1B visa. Diploma mills are already a reality in many parts of the world, adding a green card as an incentive and the potential for abuse is immense.

      So you limit it to select accredited universities. Problem solved. If someone can graduate from MIT with an engineering degree and wants to stay in the USA, we're idiots to not help them do that. It only becomes a problem if we don't pay any attention to how it's done.

      • Re:Easy solution (Score:3, Insightful)

        by khallow ( 566160 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @10:04AM (#52413091)

        So you limit it to select accredited universities. Problem solved.

        Accreditation has already been heavily compromised in order to suck up student loan money.

      • Re:Easy solution (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Karl Cocknozzle ( 514413 ) <kcocknozzle AT hotmail DOT com> on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @10:08AM (#52413133) Homepage

        It only becomes a problem if we don't pay any attention to how it's done.

        This idea is a non-starter. We already discourage students from pursuing STEM degrees by allowing companies like Facebook and Microsoft to import cheap labor in the form of H1-B visas--are we now to add a further disincentive by saying that anybody who can slither under the wire to get accepted to a U.S. university (and graduate) is now your permanent competition inside the United States? That's so self-destructive it's ridiculous. Policies like this are why the idiots in Britain voted to shoot their country (and themselves, directly) in the foot with a "Brexit" vote--because of the perception that their government serves "outsiders" ahead of them.

        This policy would make that even more the case in the United States and might push even rational Americans to consider a Trump vote.

        • by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @10:42AM (#52413417)

          We already discourage students from pursuing STEM degrees by allowing companies like Facebook and Microsoft to import cheap labor in the form of H1-B visas

          You do realize that there is a LOT more to STEM fields than working for large IT firms right? I have an engineering degree and I work in manufacturing. (and manufacturing in the US is alive and well in spite of claims to the contrary) Most scientists, engineers and mathematicians don't work in Silicon Valley or Seattle. H1B visas are simply Not A Thing among engineers in my industry. They just aren't. I'm not saying they aren't a problem (they are) but they aren't as wide spread or severe a problem as is sometimes claimed. Frankly H1B visas are kind of small potatoes in the challenges presented by global competition.

          are we now to add a further disincentive by saying that anybody who can slither under the wire to get accepted to a U.S. university (and graduate) is now your permanent competition inside the United States?

          If they work here in the US under a Green Card they aren't going to be paid H1B wages. The company can't deport them and the worker has basically the same rights as a US citizen. Furthermore they are your competition whether or not they are here in the US. Plenty of software and technology is developed outside the US and they don't stop being smart, talented people just because they don't work inside the US. It's actually to your benefit to have as much talent here in the US doing useful things as possible. If they go elsewhere much of their economic benefit goes with them. If there are a lot of smart talented people here then the pool of jobs here grows. If they go elsewhere then they don't create value here and there ends up being fewer jobs. America is a country of immigrants. We only hurt ourselves when we forget that fact.

          Policies like this are why the idiots in Britain voted to shoot their country (and themselves, directly) in the foot with a "Brexit" vote--because of the perception that their government serves "outsiders" ahead of them.

          Spare me. Many British voters voted for Brexit in large part because of racism and xenophobia. And frankly given Britian's colonial past them complaining about outsiders is hugely ironic. It wasn't that long ago that Britain was a large empire based on screwing over foreigners in places like India.

        • Re:Easy solution (Score:3, Insightful)

          by lgw ( 121541 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @12:59PM (#52414677) Journal

          to import cheap labor in the form of H1-B visas--are we now to add a further disincentive by saying that anybody who can slither under the wire to get accepted to a U.S. university (and graduate) is now your permanent competition inside the United States?

          Seems like we see this same idiocy on every /. story related to immigration. Here's the thing: an immigrant has the same cost of living I do, the overseas guy doesn't. Every single developer who immigrates get paid more as a result. The average pay for the work increases with every immigrant.

          Your competition has never been "workers in the US" in software development, but "workers in the world".

          • Re:Easy solution (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Karl Cocknozzle ( 514413 ) <kcocknozzle AT hotmail DOT com> on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @01:42PM (#52415009) Homepage

            The average pay for the work increases with every immigrant.

            Um, no. There's something called a saturation point, beyond which adding in more programmers drives down wages. This is nothing more than employers trying to rig the supply and demand equation and save a buck. Any crowing about "shortages" of skilled STEM talent are mostly B.S.--the problem is they won't raise wages to attract someone to the job, and would prefer the government allow them to import cheap H1-B labor, or saturate the market by granting permanent residency to anyone who goes gets a STEM degree here. Both practices dilute wages, because both practices allow employers to defy the laws of supply and demand--they want to monkey with the available supply of these workers to keep wages down.

          • Re:Easy solution (Score:5, Insightful)

            by SvnLyrBrto ( 62138 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @02:51PM (#52415577)

            Seems like we see this same idiocy on every /. story related to immigration. Here's the thing: an immigrant has the same cost of living I do, the overseas guy doesn't. Every single developer who immigrates get paid more as a result. The average pay for the work increases with every immigrant.

            I doubt that's the case with H1B immigrants who are locked into a specific sponsoring employer under pain of being kicked out of the country. It certainly is the case, though, with actual green card immigrants who, if they they are underpaid or otherwise unfairly treated, can jump ship for a new employer. So that would be my solution:

            Eliminate H1B, and any other employer-restricted visas entirely. But for provably skilled and educated workers in the STEM fields, have a fast track program to get them permanent residency in short order. That way they can't be trapped by an abusive employer. And they'll be here, contributing to our economy, in the long-term rather than making a bit of money and taking it, and their skills, back overseas.

    • The key word here is "accredited institutions." If that's done right, it is less abusive and potentially less of a problem for workers than an H1B since they can shop around for better jobs.

      • by Fire_Wraith ( 1460385 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:27AM (#52412479)
        Yes, exactly. One of the biggest problems with the H-1B program isn't the fact that "there's more people here", it's that they're largely stuck on that particular job, with the threat of being sent home for good if they get fired, which means they'll put up with a lot of crap that normal workers wouldn't, even stuff that's supposed to be against the laws about working hours/conditions/etc. Even though they technically can move to another position with another company, it's far more difficult to do that on an H-1B than as a citizen or permanent resident, and if you get fired, you only have a very narrow window to find a new job before you get kicked out (something like 30 days).
      • I agree that the key word here is "accredited institutions.", but for another reason. Consider for instance the current debacle of accreditation bodies [latimes.com] as reported by the LA Times.

        The federal government is preparing to bring down the hammer on one of these toothless watchdogs. Its target is the Accrediting Council for Independent Colleges and Schools, which is renowned for maintaining its accreditation of Corinthian Colleges right up to the day that chain of for-profit schools ceased operating in April 2015. Corinthian filed for bankruptcy days later. ACICS accredits some 900 campuses across the nation, giving those schools the formal imprimatur that allows them to collect an estimated $5 billion a year in federal financial aid on behalf of their students.

        But its role may be ending. The Department of Education staff on Wednesday recommended the revocation of ACICS's recognition as an accreditation body. That means that schools bearing its seal of approval will have to find a new accreditation body within 18 months or lose their right to collect federal financial aid payments.

        The stakes right now are "only" financial, concerning to student loans. When the scope becomes international and the stakes include a green card it will be much hard to prevent this kind of scheme.

        Done right anything is possible but human nature in this particular case will be drawn by greed and greed will rapidly pervert the whole process.

    • by JackieBrown ( 987087 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:24AM (#52412449)

      She is amazingly quick to tailor promises based on who she is talking to. The tech community should be aware of this.

      Some big examples would be gay marriage, TPA, patriot act, Iraq War, etc.

      Yes, I know all politicians lie. I am just annoyed that people believe things that Hillary say means something.

      On a tech site, we are cheering someone's tech platform whose tech level is so low that her defenders say we should not expect Hillary to be able to manage two separate email accounts.

    • Green card holders are not tied to the job like H1B's are.

    • Potentially more abuse prone than the H1B visa. Diploma mills are already a reality in many parts of the world, adding a green card as an incentive and the potential for abuse is immense.

      Diploma mills aren't accredited... If they are they are typically more than mere mills :)

    • Yes, but as a Silicon Valley CEO, how else are you going to put [downward] pressure on STEM wages? Supply and demand- increase supply, keep demand the same, prices go down.

    • Critics will say this provision will be hard to control, will foster age discrimination, and put pressure on IT wages.

      That's part of Silicon Valley's wish list though, is it not?

    • by pr0fessor ( 1940368 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @09:31AM (#52412879)

      We have a "Technical College" that pumps out A+, MCSAs, and AAS on an assembly line, most of them learn nothing and don't make it in the real world.

    • I'd rather they get a green card and have the ability to leave an abusive employer. They still might undercut American workers, but it would push the bottom of the barrel H1B wages up toward native wages, meaning foreign workers would have to compete on merit (which I have no issue with).
    • by buddyglass ( 925859 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @10:45AM (#52413447)
      Simple solution: only give green cards to foreign students who graduate with STEM degrees from suitably well-accredited universities. At the far end of elitism you could restrict it to AAU members, but that would rule out a good number of decent state universities without a graduate research focus. I'm sure there's some other designation you could use that would exclude obvious diploma mills but include mid-tier state universities and other schools (e.g. Notre Dame) that aren't AAU members.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:04AM (#52412301)

    Hillary and the various silicon valley billionaires are tight. They get her elected and she will try to implement their agenda. And make no mistake, their agenda involves more money for them, less privacy for you and more control over you.

  • Green Cards (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:05AM (#52412311)

    The green card idea is interesting, and I would enthusiastically support such a plan if it also included a dramatic reduction in the H1-B program.

  • by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:07AM (#52412321) Homepage

    ... for all the basis in reality the plan will have once she gets elected in.

    Wouldn't it be nice if politicians were legally oblidged to give realistic manifestos and if they failed to deliver on at least a given percentage of them then there would be a fine or reduction in tenure time or some other punative measure?

  • No surprise (Score:5, Funny)

    by onyxruby ( 118189 ) <onyxruby AT comcast DOT net> on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:15AM (#52412385)

    Considering that Silicon Valley almost certainly came up with it to begin with. She always stay on script. Sigh

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

  • by SciCom Luke ( 2739317 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:17AM (#52412407)
    ...especially prior to elections! The promise mountains of gold... until the elections are over.
  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:21AM (#52412435)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by WindBourne ( 631190 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:28AM (#52412489) Journal
    I suspect that she is listing all this stuff to enable her to INCREASE the number of h1b . For somebody that speaks of supporting the middle class, she is looking to gut the jobs by offspring and increasing immigration.
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:51AM (#52412639)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Since she's for more guest worker fraud, she's against her own country.

    Then again, she's one of the globalists.

    • A Green Card isn't a guest worker, though.

      It's a permanent resident status, meaning there's nothing "Guest" about it. If you think that immigration is bad, then that's a bad thing, but if your concern is about temporary status workers being taken advantage of, to the detriment of normal workers (as well as themselves), then, giving permanent (no strings) status instead is a vast improvement.
  • by EmeraldBot ( 3513925 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @08:58AM (#52412683)

    This actually doesn't look so bad to me, it's surprisingly sane, actually. The US is pretty reliant on only a few major industries for exporting, mainly entertainment and food. They're farther ahead then any other country when it comes to the size of their tech industry, so I think we should be focusing on ensuring that the country doesn't needlessly fall behind, especially with people becoming seriously concerned about the state of our privacy laws. Investing and growing it is a smart move, and I don't oppose the green card idea if we require foreigners to graduate with a degree from an American university (or other accredited source). If they did all the work an American would do and passed the same classes, and they stuck around long enough to complete it (which is usually around 4 years for a college degree), I absolutely don't see why we don't give them a green card. She recognizes how important tech is, and although I don't agree with all her policies, she's definitely got the right idea here.

    The major concern with her internet policy is that she implicitly supports the bulk data collection. She is leagues and leagues ahead of Donald Trump, who has advocated for cutting America's internet off from the rest of the world and would almost certainly outlaw encryption of any kind, but she's far inferior to Bernie Sanders who favors privacy much more. Factoring this into account, I can live with her policys, but it's frustrating for us all that very few politicians seem to grasp what this means or that is actually weakens security, because now we have to automate sorting through it all on account of how big the data is and machines are so laughably bad compared to people at spotting this sort of thing.

  • Or, in other words (Score:4, Informative)

    by Trailer Trash ( 60756 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @09:21AM (#52412813) Homepage

    Clinton doesn't actually have a "tech plan". She was given one by her wealthy Silicon Valley donors. This is a woman who doesn't know how to use a fax machine, the idea that she even remotely understands net neutrality is a joke.

    • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @09:53AM (#52413021)

      This is a woman who doesn't know how to use a fax machine, the idea that she even remotely understands net neutrality is a joke.

      When did using a FAX machine ever become a job requirement?

      I had a FAX machine between 2005 and 2010 when I got into IT contract work. HR would fax the contract, I would sign it and get my I-9 notarized, and faxed the documents back. These days I can print out from computer, sign the documents, scan into computer, and send documents back via email. Heck, I sometimes use a digital signature for some of this stuff.

      BTW, Donald Trump reportedly doesn't use a computer and has two rotatory telephones on his desk. He probably doesn't know how to use a FAX machine.

  • by Chas ( 5144 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @09:23AM (#52412817) Homepage Journal

    Seriously.

    Every politician on the hunt for a job has a slick, sexy "action plan" designed to grab a given constituency by the short and curlies and make them want to vote for that person.

    The problem is, after the election is over and the candidate is firmly ensconced within their comfy office, said action plan and the promises contained within are forgotten faster than the name of a partner at a drunken one night stand...

  • reducing regulatory barriers and supporting Net neutrality rules

    Net neutrality — whether you like it or not — can only be achieved by a regulatory barrier. The government is telling owners of cables, routers and switches, what they can and can not do with their own equipment and data passing through it.

    Clearly, some regulation is more equal than others and Hillary Clinton is, once again, talking from multiple sides of her very experienced mouth.

    • by Fire_Wraith ( 1460385 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @09:56AM (#52413057)
      It's not a binary question though - we're not forced to choose between "All regulation is good" or "All regulation is bad." We can choose to set an appropriate level, and degree. Like anything, it's a tool, and it can be used for good or for ill. Some regulations are good and some are bad - I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.

      For instance, Net Neutrality isn't telling them in exacting detail how to manage their network, specifying that they have to use this kind of switch but not that kind, or that they have to use specific government approved connectors or things like that. It's merely saying "your role is to pass traffic along, and you can't abuse that by charging extra or degrading service based on whose traffic it is". That's a regulation that encourages competition in the provision of services over the internet.

      On the other hand, we could certainly do with removing regulations that serve solely as a barrier to competition or entry, such as those in the ISP market, which is desperately in need of real competition. If anything, my complaint with her 'plan' is that she doesn't really address this, but then, the politicians that you would think should be championing free market mechanisms are instead too busy trying to defend monopolistic rent-seeking behavior.
  • by wardrich86 ( 4092007 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @09:53AM (#52413023)
    She's lied about everything else... who the fuck would trust her on this? It's just a dangling carrot that, and she'll probably end up eating it herself if she gets in.
  • Green Cards (Score:4, Insightful)

    by EndlessNameless ( 673105 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @10:22AM (#52413263)

    Clinton... wants the U.S. to "staple" green cards on the diplomas of STEM... masters and PhD graduates

    Good. We need to balance out the culture of ignorance that is developing in this country. The people who mock learning and expertise aren't moving the country forward now, and they never will.

    Plus, if these people have real green cards, they cannot be abused and underpaid the same way H1Bs are. That should stabilize the labor market a bit, especially if the program ultimately leads to a reduction in H1B issuance.

    If American citizens have no interest in education, go ahead and allow *real* immigration. As long as the immigrants integrate culturally, the country will come out stronger like it always has.

  • by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @10:23AM (#52413271)

    Seriously.

    As there isn't any accountability for campaign promises, why would anyone ( who has lived through more than one election ) give any candidates promises any credibility at all ?

    I put her promises in the same category as Trump.
    ( or any candidate for that matter )

    Lots of fluffy talk tailored to whatever group they're trying to snuggle up to, never any follow-through and no consequences.

  • by ooloorie ( 4394035 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @11:11AM (#52413707)

    I have talked to Hillary supporters who have said without any embarrassment: "Of course, she can't keep those promises and she has to lie. But it's vitally important that she get elected and she has to say things because American voters are stupid and she wouldn't get elected otherwise. Once she has been elected, she will just do what's good for the country."

  • How about a job (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rfengr ( 910026 ) on Wednesday June 29, 2016 @11:27AM (#52413833)
    How about attaching a JOB to diplomas of US CITIZENS who obtain STEM degrees?

As of next Thursday, UNIX will be flushed in favor of TOPS-10. Please update your programs.

Working...