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Businesses China The Almighty Buck

Amazon Loses Huge Footwear Company Because Of Fake Products, a Problem It Denies Is Happening (cnbc.com) 347

Posted by msmash from the when-orrelation-is-causation dept.
Several sellers on Amazon had noted earlier this month that the platform is riddled with counterfeit products and that things have gotten worse after Chinese manufacturers were allowed to sell goods to the consumers in the United States. Amid the report, the German footwear company Birkenstock has announced it will no longer sell its sandals on Amazon. The company added that it will also ban any sales of its products by third-party sellers on Amazon, effectively making its products unavailable on the world's largest online store, according to a report on CNBC. From the report: "The Amazon marketplace, which operates as an 'open market,' creates an environment where we experience unacceptable business practices which we believe jeopardize our brand," Birkenstock USA CEO David Kahan wrote from the company's U.S. headquarters in Novato, California. "Policing this activity internally and in partnership with Amazon.com has proven impossible."
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Amazon Loses Huge Footwear Company Because Of Fake Products, a Problem It Denies Is Happening More

Amazon Loses Huge Footwear Company Because Of Fake Products, a Problem It Denies Is Happening

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  • Knockoff doesn't have to mean low quality. Often times the quality is almost as good as the premium name item.


    Just saying.

    • Re:Amazon is awesome for knockoffs! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by FlyHelicopters ( 1540845 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:12AM (#52553729)

      Sure, but it is often illegal, and that is the problem...

      Society has rules, you don't have to agree with them, just follow them. There is a process to change them if you don't like them...

      That people don't take the actions to change them is not the fault of the rules, or companies, it is the fault of lazy people who can't be bothered...

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by 110010001000 ( 697113 )
        Except that mega corporations aren't playing by the rules either. For example, they use offshore tax havens to hide profit that should go to paying US taxes. If they aren't playing by the rules, why should you? You can't afford it, they can. Playing by the rules is out the window in 2016.

        • playing by the rules means you lose and some 'unethical' entity wins.

          corps have zero ethics and break rules, knowing its just a matter of numbers and costs/profits. we get laws made by corps that are not constitutional and they fully do this knowing it buys them time and that's all they really needed, anyway.

          cops and judges and the whole legal system is not about fairness or even justice. there are so many levels of 'laws' and rules, its all ruined at this point. so stained and full of holes and exceptio

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by amiga3D ( 567632 )

      They mention this in an article on a company that fake NEC products. In some cases they had researched and developed their own original products and branded them NEC. It's an amazing story.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05... [nytimes.com]

    • The knockoffs on Amazon have been complete trash. Just saying ;)

    • Re:Amazon is awesome for knockoffs! (Score:5, Informative)

      by AntronArgaiv ( 4043705 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:19AM (#52553799)

      Knockoff doesn't have to mean low quality. Often times the quality is almost as good as the premium name item.
        Just saying.

      True, but you should:
      1. Be clearly informed that what you're getting is a knockoff, not the real thing
      2. Be supported by Amazon when attempting to return substandard goods
      3. Expect that Amazon would insist on the above

      That's not happening. My increasing reluctance to deal with non-"Prime" vendors is due solely to Amazon's lackadaisical attitude towards what is being sold. As long as they get their cut, they appear not to care. And the product descriptions on some of this stuff are misleading and so brief as not to provide any significant information about what is being sold. I'm talking about lack of dimensions, poor product photos, that sort of thing.

      Amazon's on track to become as sketchy as Ebay.

      • My increasing reluctance to deal with non-"Prime" vendors is due solely to Amazon's lackadaisical attitude towards what is being sold.

        This so much! I only buy from Prime vendors for that very reason. And if at all possible, I will always purchase from the vendor of the product through amazon, even though it may cost slightly more, I know I will get it in 2 days and it will be legitimate.

    • Cutting corners (Score:2, Insightful)

      by sjbe ( 173966 )

      Knockoff doesn't have to mean low quality.

      True but let's be honest, it usually does. It's typically hard to make things cheaper without cutting corners somewhere. Some exceptions of course but not many.

      • Re:Cutting corners (Score:4, Insightful)

        by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:45AM (#52554039) Homepage Journal
        No it isn't. The reason shoes sell here in the US for $100+ that cost $20 to manufacture is profit, development and (mostly) marketing costs. Nike pays Michael Jordan a billion dollars for marketing purposes. That money comes from the consumer. A pair of Jordan shoes costs about $20 to make in China. The $100 profit goes to Nike. It doesn't go to quality.

        • Re:Cutting corners (Score:5, Insightful)

          by TheRaven64 ( 641858 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @10:07AM (#52554223) Journal

          As I understand the term, it's only a knockoff if it's attempting to portray itself as a different company's brand. Supermarket own brand ketchup is not a Heinz knockoff, even if it's made in the same factory with the same ingredients, because it's got someone else's name on it and isn't trying to pretend to be Heinz ketchup.

          If the shoes cost $20 to make and you can get shoes for the same quality as Nike and manage to sell them for $40, making $20 profit on each one, then you shouldn't worry about putting your own brand name on them. You'll get good reviews and the value of your brand increases. The problem is when you make an inferior product and put someone else's name on it, because then you get the benefit from their reputation and they pay the cost when their reputation suffers because of the substandard goods.

          • That isn't how the world works. You can make BETTER $40 shoes than $140 Nike shoes, but you will go broke quickly. People buy shoes and stuff in general based on MARKETING. The reason shoes are $140 and not $40 is explained above. That billion dollars they are paying to Jordan, and sponsorships, aren't coming from a money tree. It is coming from the $120 in profit they make per sale. T

    • The point is that they wouldnt sell under a non-premium brand, hence why this is an issue - they are trading on the value of the brand, regardless of the quality of the goods.

      Otherwise the knockoffs would do just fine under their own brand.

    • That is because "knockoffs" are the real thing. All they do is do "extra runs" of the product and don't tell Nike/Birkenstock about it. I regularly order shoes from Aliexpress. They are identical to the ones I can get in the U.S. I can get for $40 (free shipping) Nike shoes that cost $120 here in the U.S.

    • Hell No (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nehumanuscrede ( 624750 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:45AM (#52554033)

      A few years ago, I purchased what I thought were genuine Nikon batteries for use in my cameras.

      Once they arrived, I took a very good look at them and determined they were, in fact, counterfeit.
      ( They had official looking hologram stickers and whatnot, but were not the real thing )

      I returned them and ended up purchasing the batteries through a local dealer instead.

      Now, while some will say " What's the big deal ? ", if a problem develops within those batteries and
      it ends up destroying your $$$$ camera, you can bet Nikon would tell me " Too Bad for you ". Otoh,
      if a genuine Nikon battery does the same thing, Nikon would probably be a bit more sympathetic since
      it is their official product that I'm buying.

      Bottom line: If I cannot trust Amazon and / or the sellers who operate through Amazon to deliver genuine
      products, I will simply cease using Amazon to purchase any of it.

      It's that simple.

      • A few years ago, I purchased what I thought were genuine Nikon batteries for use in my cameras.

        Once they arrived, I took a very good look at them and determined they were, in fact, counterfeit.
        ( They had official looking hologram stickers and whatnot, but were not the real thing )

        I returned them and ended up purchasing the batteries through a local dealer instead.

        Now, while some will say " What's the big deal ? ", if a problem develops within those batteries and
        it ends up destroying your $$$$ camera, you can bet Nikon would tell me " Too Bad for you ". Otoh,
        if a genuine Nikon battery does the same thing, Nikon would probably be a bit more sympathetic since
        it is their official product that I'm buying.

        Bottom line: If I cannot trust Amazon and / or the sellers who operate through Amazon to deliver genuine
        products, I will simply cease using Amazon to purchase any of it.

        It's that simple.

        Yes, and I'll bet you a donut and a cup of coffee that, if you open up those batteries which are remarkably similar on the outside, you'll find (if you're lucky) undersized calls of dubious quality. The batteries, if you dared to put them in your camera, which I wouldn't recommend, will probably last 1/2 to 2/3 the time a genuine battery would.

        As Heinlein said, TANSTAAFL. Sure, there's a Nikon markup, but if you want 3rd party bateries, don't buy the ones that are trying to pass for Nikon. Buy some from

        • A few years ago, I purchased what I thought were genuine Nikon batteries for use in my cameras.

          Once they arrived, I took a very good look at them and determined they were, in fact, counterfeit.
          ( They had official looking hologram stickers and whatnot, but were not the real thing )

          I returned them and ended up purchasing the batteries through a local dealer instead.

          Now, while some will say " What's the big deal ? ", if a problem develops within those batteries and
          it ends up destroying your $$$$ camera, you can bet Nikon would tell me " Too Bad for you ". Otoh,
          if a genuine Nikon battery does the same thing, Nikon would probably be a bit more sympathetic since
          it is their official product that I'm buying.

          Bottom line: If I cannot trust Amazon and / or the sellers who operate through Amazon to deliver genuine
          products, I will simply cease using Amazon to purchase any of it.

          It's that simple.

          Yes, and I'll bet you a donut and a cup of coffee that, if you open up those batteries which are remarkably similar on the outside, you'll find (if you're lucky) undersized calls of dubious quality. The batteries, if you dared to put them in your camera, which I wouldn't recommend, will probably last 1/2 to 2/3 the time a genuine battery would.

          As Heinlein said, TANSTAAFL. Sure, there's a Nikon markup, but if you want 3rd party bateries, don't buy the ones that are trying to pass for Nikon. Buy some from a manufacturer like Wasabi (I've had good experience with them) or Digipower (likewise), who are trying to build a brand reputation.

          I agree, if you are choosing a third party battery provider, that you find one that that has good quality. I've used Sterlingtek batteries in my Canon SLR cameras with no problems and they last just as long, if not longer than the manufacturer batteries. That being said, I knowingly went looking for third party batteries. I would be upset if I thought that I was buying a Canon battery but it turned out to be a knockoff.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DrXym ( 126579 )
      No, it's virtually never as good as the premium item. It might be passably all right in its own right and bear a superficial resemblance to the original but that's all you can say for it. At the end of the day, a cheap pair of flip flops with Birkenstock on the side might still suit their purpose well enough that it doesn't matter if they're real or not. But someone expecting they bought the original would be pissed if they got some knockoff. But quality control will be practically non existent. I remember

  • So they are just letting the fakes win? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by turp182 ( 1020263 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:09AM (#52553697) Journal

    It seems like this approach would just let the counterfeit products completely control the Amazon market for their type of product.

    I wonder if Birkenstock is aware of a website called Aliexpress.com... A quick search shows that $20 off retail is much more than one needs to pay for a counterfeit version of their shoes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by H3lldr0p ( 40304 )

      No, this is likely part one of an overall strategy.

      If you noticed the blurb, they've been "working with" Amazon to tackle the issue. However Amazon is unable or unwilling or a combination of both to give them the tools they've been asking for. I'm guessing they'd want something like YouTube's ContentID to flag things. Of course, providing such a tool would be against Amazon's M.O. since it would likely cut into sales to a noticeable degree. Thus the move to get out of Amazon completely.

      Next step is likely t

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by sjbe ( 173966 )

        If you noticed the blurb, they've been "working with" Amazon to tackle the issue. However Amazon is unable or unwilling or a combination of both to give them the tools they've been asking for.

        If they want Amazon to "solve" the problem like eBay then I'm glad. EBay basically gives brand owners free reign to delete listings for products that compete with theirs with no recourse for the seller even if the listing is legit. I used to sell stuff on eBay for a living and we had auctions halted and strikes against us for merchandise (like fancy hand bags) that we knew beyond any doubt was authentic with a complete paper trail to prove it. EBay threw small sellers under the bus. Hopefully Amazon wil

    • They primarily sell the kind of trashy sandals worn by people who leave the house in sweatpants.

    • The problem for Birkenstock is that their shoes are vastly over priced. The cost of manufacturing and selling similar shoes is much less. This makes them a very attractive target for counterfeiters.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Lumpy ( 12016 )

        The Nike and reebok problem..

        They sell $3.95 shoes for $100 or more. It's still low grade china made junk but with a premium price.

  • It happened to me (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wcrowe ( 94389 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:39AM (#52553987)

    When you think of fake products, knock-offs and the like, you think primarily of fashion goods, like the Birkenstock sandals in the article. So, when I bought a Black and Decker electric knife recently, I never dreamed there would be a problem. The knife is a piece of crap. It was haphazardly packaged, and will not cut through anything. True to form, when I complained about it, they offered to take it back if I would return it. But then I thought, "What I bought was an errand." Instead of getting a legitimate product, conveniently delivered to my front door, I got a crappy product, and now I have to print out the return strip, repackage it, and then go down to the UPS store and stand in line to have it shipped off. They say they'll pay for the shipping and refund my money, but isn't my time and effort worth something? Why should I have to waste an hour dealing with something that is obviously a fake product? If they can deliver me a glob of shit, they can goddam well come around and pick it back up. Amazon needs to scrutinize their sellers better.

    • Honestly Black and Decker isn't much better than a Chinese knockoff. They are the cheapest appliance brand for a reason.

    • Re:It happened to me (Score:5, Interesting)

      by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:56AM (#52554137) Homepage Journal
      There is no company that is designing "knockoff electric knives" with separately tooled factory lines. It doesn't make financial sense to do so. What they are doing is making extra runs of the "real" product without B&D knowing about it and throwing them into packages. The product is the same. The main issue is that the Black and Decker knife is crap, like most of BD stuff made in China.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by wcrowe ( 94389 )

        While I am sure that it probably happens that companies do extra runs as you describe, I think it's erroneous to assume that "there is no company that is designing knockoff electric knives". China is famous for selling all kinds of knockoffs of all types -- batteries, chargers, cell phones, automobile parts, and so on. I cannot accept the simple argument that "B&D stuff is crap." I have a couple of friends and family members who have B&D electric knives and they function just fine. I also have a

        • It costs a lot of money to tool up a manufacturing line for electric knives. It is almost 100% certain they are using the same tooling as the "real" line. Well 90% certain. OK, maybe 30% certain.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by ScentCone ( 795499 )
      Right there in front of you in writing are instructions on how to have UPS stop at your door and pick up the item you're returning. Yes, it's a shame an unscrupulous third party sold you a counterfeit item. But don't pretend Amazon doesn't have mechanisms in place to have that UPS driver pick up your return. They do it every day.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by wcrowe ( 94389 )

        Nope. Not so in my case. I just checked the instructions I received to make sure. There is nothing that says I can have UPS come pick up the package. In fact, the only place UPS is mentioned in the instructions is where it says, "We recommend returns be made via UPS insured freight or fedex insured only and you keep the tracking number so that you would make sure that we would receive the item."

         

    • Tools are an area where this seems to be a real problem. Another I've noticed is razor blades. I bought some Gillette Fusion blades last year which turned out to be very, very dodgy counterfeits, with obviously-fake packaging and blades that were downright dangerous to use.

      This isn't just about shoes.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by wcrowe ( 94389 )

        I can totally believe that. That's a product ripe for exploiting. It's expensive, inconvenient to buy, and lot's of people need them.

        BTW, not that I'm trying to sell a particular product, but since you mentioned razor blades, I've been using the Dollar Shave Club stuff for four years now and I am totally happy with them. I get five of the higher quality blades for $6 per month. Of course, they just got bought out by Unilever, so that might be the beginning of the end for DSC, but so far their products a

    • Hand it to the delivery guy, leave it for them etc I've never had to go to the ups store ever.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by wcrowe ( 94389 )

        I'm sure this works if you have it packed and boxed and labeled correctly, etc. I don't have a box to ship it in (the original is gone), I don't have any packing tape, and no way to securely seal the lable to the package. Will it really work if I just leave the knife on the porch with the piece of paper with the return label taped to it and a note that says, "Hey UPS guy, take care of this"?

    • As another reply noted you can have the UPS just come collect the thing...

      But if you prefer to drop it off in a store, you can just leave it on the counter in the store, you don't have to wait in any lines.

    • This is where the reviews come in. If the buyers voice their experiences with that product openly and they are verified buyers of that item, then there shouldn't be an issue. I've also seen an item that has glowing reviews, but then you scroll down to see that all of the reviews are either not verified buyers of that item, or that they received the item at a discount or for free in exchange for an honest review.

      Sometimes these reviews turn out to be legitimate, I also used to receive things from Newegg ba

    • Lev Andropov: It's stuck, yes?
      Watts: Back off! You don't know the components!
      Lev Andropov: [annoyed] Components. American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!

      I find it hard to get worked about about "branding" issues of Chinese knockoffs when most of the "branded" crap is made in China anyway.

      Perhaps not in the case of Birkenstocks, which is perhaps why they are the only ones making a fuss over it. Otherwise it seems a tad overly hypocritical...

  • Amazon 'marketplace', wish I could disable it. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:40AM (#52553999) Homepage

    When I go to Amazon to perhaps purchase something, I go there to buy from Amazon, not some unknown third party. I wish there was an option to disable the entire marketplace listings for my account. If there was such an option, I might shop there more. As it is I barely go there anymore.

    I view Amazon now as I have Ebay for a long time, where I go to buy cheap trash I don't really need. And i don't buy cheap trash.

    Other well known sellers are becoming like flea markets too, Newegg I'm looking at you. If I go to an online retailer I am going there to buy from them, not some guy on a street corner. That's how it feels now. :(

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Rhys ( 96510 )

      At least newegg gives you an option to limit it to newegg itself as soon as you hit search.

      But yes, my one experience with their 'marketplace' (flash deals) was shit. Item shipped significantly different than item pictured, far lower quality. On the plus side, they gave a refund and did *not* want their trash back. At least it only wasted a little time (and materials)?

    • I wish there was an option to disable the entire marketplace listings for my account.

      I'd love to have this option as well. Screening out all the cruft and crap at Amazon is nearly more trouble than it's worth now.

      The other thing that baffles me about Amazon is that in their search pages, you can't jump ahead 5 or 10 pages...you can only advance 1 or 2 pages at a time. Depending upon what you search for and how you sort it, you might get 50 pages of irrelevant 99-cent items before you start to find what you need. Then you have to slog through them to get to what you really want. It's a perfe

    • I'm willing to pay more at Amazon or Newegg...ONLY because I'm expecting them to stand behind what I buy there. When they start disavowing responsibility for stuff sold through their site, there's really no motivation for me to buy through them.

    • Sure a filter that spares you from having to read the words in front of you would make it a little quicker. But there is no way to purchase from a third party vendor at Amazon without knowing that's exactly what you're doing. If you don't like third party sellers, don't click "Add To Cart" on those items. How hard is that, really?

      • I know which items are from a third party seller, yes you can tell at a glance. The issue is I don't care to see them, that's not why I am at Amazon, I am there to buy from them, and only them. Until recently I was very trusting of Amazon, now it appears counterfeits from third parties now get put in the same spot in the warehouse as legit items and sold by Amazon. Many Amazon reviews discuss this commingling problem and the resultant distrust.

        The signal to noise ratio is way too high due to the flood of ma

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Spril ( 524430 )

      That strategy used to work, but not anymore. For "more efficient logistics", Amazon mingles counterfeit crap with their own. I've had to return camera batteries that were clearly fake, and water filters that were used, which I purchased directly from Amazon.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @11:06AM (#52554777)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by cdrudge ( 68377 )

      When I go to Amazon to perhaps purchase something, I go there to buy from Amazon, not some unknown third party. I wish there was an option to disable the entire marketplace listings for my account. If there was such an option, I might shop there more

      Search for whatever you're looking for. In the results, scroll down to Seller filter. Select Amazon, Amazon.com, or Amazon Warehouse Deals (used, scratch and dent, returns, etc) as appropriate. Presto, you just eliminated anything not sold at least by Amazon.

  • Summary leaves out a key part of the quote (Score:5, Informative)

    by jratcliffe ( 208809 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:41AM (#52554005)

    Summary quotes the Birkenstock CEO as saying "The Amazon marketplace, which operates as an "open market,” creates an environment where we experience unacceptable business practices which we believe jeopardize our brand." It leaves out a later sentence in the same paragraph, which it probably at least as much of an issue as the counterfeiting problem: "It also includes a constant stream of unidentifiable unauthorized sellers who show a blatant disregard for our pricing policies."

    Birkenstock wants all dealers to sell at full list - stores were selling on Amazon at a discount, and undercutting other dealers, who were complaining to Birkenstock.

    • Re:Summary leaves out a key part of the quote (Score:4, Interesting)

      by dj245 ( 732906 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @12:50PM (#52555623) Homepage

      Summary quotes the Birkenstock CEO as saying "The Amazon marketplace, which operates as an "open market,” creates an environment where we experience unacceptable business practices which we believe jeopardize our brand." It leaves out a later sentence in the same paragraph, which it probably at least as much of an issue as the counterfeiting problem: "It also includes a constant stream of unidentifiable unauthorized sellers who show a blatant disregard for our pricing policies."

      Birkenstock wants all dealers to sell at full list - stores were selling on Amazon at a discount, and undercutting other dealers, who were complaining to Birkenstock.

      I used to be 100% against such policies until I realized the advantage. With MSRP policies, vendors have to compete on service and customer satisfaction. Without minimum pricing policies, the main competitive advantage comes down to price. Minimum sales price policies protect small vendors against large ones, to some extent. The big companies might be getting a volume discount from the manufacturer, but at least the small businesses have a chance at competition on their merits (service / reputation / customer satisfaction), rather than on price.

      Another point is that the manufacturer dodges the potential legal problems of preferring one reseller to another. They can point to their MSRP policy as proof that they don't play favorites (they don't illegally play favorites, anyway) with their resellers.

      I'm not saying MSRP policies are good, but they aren't 100% bad either.

  • Amazon is a crapshoot. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:42AM (#52554011) Homepage

    It's just like what Ebay has been for over a decade now. You can not be sure you are buying anything that is real. I used to use the "prime" as a real item indicator, but even thouse are now turning out to be china junk sold as real with a username that even looks real.

    "SandiskMemory" is NOT Sandisk... in fact Sandisk does not have a direct amazon store so anyone using the seller name SanDisk is selling china fake junk.

    Amazon refuses to fix this because they are making mad profit off of it.

  • I have some sympathy for Birkenstock, but not much. For the amount of money they are asking for essentially a good name, they can spring a few extra coins (or whatever) on holograms or some other identification that shows it's THEIR genuine product.

    Other than that, knockoffs are knockoffs and if a customer just wants the design and not the name, they should have the right to buy that if that's what they want.

    I can tell you from my own standpoint, I feel a hell of a lot better scuffing up and getting sand in

  • Amazon owns Zappos. Losing a single fringe-brand wont even be a blip. Amazon certainly wont fold to Birkensmuck. The publishers they've gone toe-to-toe with were Titans compared to some shoe-brand that almost no one has heard of.

  • Commingling Inventory (Score:5, Insightful)

    by crow ( 16139 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:46AM (#52554043) Homepage Journal

    The biggest problem raised in the article is the commingling of inventory. Many sellers of products provide the products to Amazon, and they are shipped out of Amazon warehouses. When multiple companies are selling the exact same product, Amazon commingles the inventory, as they consider the products to be fungible. In theory, that's fine. However, if some of the companies are selling knock-offs, you have a problem. People ordering from the knock-off seller have a good chance of getting the real thing and writing a great review. People ordering from legitimate sellers get knock-offs and write terrible reviews.

    I've seen a number of products myself where the reviews clearly indicate that people are receiving different products, and there's no way to tell which one you might actually receive.

    If Amazon were to fix this one problem, they would be in a much better position to manage counterfeit products.

    • Re:Commingling Inventory (Score:4)

      by swb ( 14022 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @10:47AM (#52554617)

      This is one of my main complaints -- you find a specific item and there's a dozen or more sellers of the item, including Amazon itself.

      I usually filter by Prime and try to choose Amazon as the seller to make sure I have the best chance of getting the real product and a recourse for a failed product.

      I think Amazon could benefit itself and its reputation by forcing greater differentiation of products by seller. You would think they would want to for brand identity purposes and to claim more sales, especially when the alternative sellers are often underpricing Amazon. I know they're making money either way, but usually they're making more when they are the seller and not just the transaction handler.

      • This can be especially frustrating for what would otherwise be basically unbranded goods. I was looking for beeswax, but the reviews ranged from perfect to "not really beeswax" with little way to tell what vendors were selling good product. I suppose it is better for the local economy I got it at a local farmer's market instead, but certainly Amazon and any reputable sellers trying to sell on Amazon were disadvantaged by the disorder.

  • 30% is a lot of money (Score:4, Informative)

    by DogDude ( 805747 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:49AM (#52554077)
    Amazon gets 30% of everything sold there. There's HUGE incentive for them to let anybody sell whatever they want because:
    - 30% is a lot. Last I checked, it was 30% of the sale price AND shipping
    - Amazon doesn't make anywhere near 30% on just about everything else they sell, themselves. Much of their stuff is sold at a loss.

    Now why somebody would want to give up 30% of the price (PLUS shipping) is beyond me. There are very few things that have the kind of markup it would take to make any money after that huge commission. I suppose that there's always somebody dumb enough to think that if you somehow sell enough stuff for a loss, eventually, you'll make money...?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by guruevi ( 827432 )

      Depending on the sale it's typically about 8-15%. Some high-risk items are 45% (software licenses and other intangibles like digital music and books).

  • Who is losing who? (Score:3)

    by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @09:51AM (#52554095)
    Birkenstock needs Amazon more than Amazon needs Birkenstock.

  • Oh noes! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @10:08AM (#52554237)
    All of the Birkenstock wearing hippies will have to buy their overpriced status symbols somewhere else. The horror!

    The issue here, really, was that some vendors were actually willing to discount Birkenstock products instead of sticking to full retail price - and that made BIrkenstock's brick-and-mortar and small-web-site retailers cranky. So Birkenstock would rather lose a huge outlet for their products than lose a lot of smaller ones that don't want to compete on price. That's their call. But this is only marginally if at all about knock-offs. This is about competition and price, and Birkenstock is chopping off a venue where shoppers might save a few dollars on shoes so they could spend it on tofu instead.

  • Actually I've had a problem recently in that I wanted to get some good Converse knockoffs and Amazon was facing limited supply because of attempts on the part of Converse to crack down on this helpful customer-friendly business practice.

    [Birkenstock] added that it will also ban any sales of its products by third-party sellers on Amazon

    How can they even do that? Amazon isn't their site, and they aren't even going to be an Amazon seller any more. I suppose what they mean is that they won't sell to resellers who sell on Amazon, perhaps? Good luck with that whackamole game.

    I guess we'll all turn to Birkens

  • Shoes, like monitors, are something I simply can't bring myself to buy over the internet.

    Comfort of a specific shoe is such an individual thing, I couldn't do it without trying them on.

  • They are trying to scam YOU, so hit them back (Score:3)

    by Optic7 ( 688717 ) on Thursday July 21, 2016 @04:32PM (#52557143)

    I have returned small counterfeit or complete no-name imitations that were sold as the real item before. But then I realized that when a seller does that, they are basically trying to scam you and hoping that you won't do anything about it.

    After realizing that, I just hit them where it hurts - give them a one-star rating of the vendor/transaction (not the product - remember that there are two different ratings on Amazon), and make clear on the review what the problem was. This will affect their ability to sell on Amazon, eventually.

    The only time so far that I've had to do this for a small item the vendor refunded my purchase price and shipping without asking for the apparent counterfeit (and/or used) item back.

    So remember, they're trying to scam you and get away with it - act accordingly!

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