Tesla Preps Bigger 100 KWh Battery For Model S and Model X (theverge.com) 113
An anonymous reader writes: Tesla will soon offer a 100 kWh battery for the Model S and Model X that will allow for increased range -- perhaps as much as 380 miles for the Model S. Currently, the 90 kWh batteries are the company's largest capacity. Kenteken.TV is reporting that the Dutch regulator that certifies Tesla's vehicles for use in the European Union, RDW, has recently published a number of new Tesla variants. RDW's public database now includes entries for a Tesla "100D" and "100X," which are titles that follow Tesla's current naming system based on battery capacity. The listing for the 100D claims the vehicle has a range of 381 miles or 613 kilometers. The motor output is reported as 90 kilowatts (121 horsepower), which is the maximum output the Tesla motors can sustain without overheating. Autoblog notes that EU range estimates tend to be more optimistic than those issued by the U.S. EPA. A more realistic range might be 310 to 320 miles.
Re: Hmm (Score:2)
600mph for 30 minutes IMO
Mileage - pinch of salt (Score:5, Interesting)
Those mileage figures need to be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Based on my own experience with my 70D (my real world range estimate = 200 miles) I estimate a 100D would have a range of around 285 miles. Which is still excellent.
I think 381 miles will only be possible driving 30mph on a flat road with no wind.
Re: Mileage - pinch of salt (Score:5, Informative)
Well the 381 mile estimate is based on European figures; the US EPA figures are tighter and would estimate closer to what you said.
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Because the European test cycle is more lenient?
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Correct, the US uses the imperial mile whilst Europe uses the metric mile.
Re: Mileage - pinch of salt (Score:1, Funny)
The "metric mile"? Ah yes, abbreviated "mm", I believe.
Re:Mileage - pinch of salt (Score:4, Informative)
With about 10% of the battery reserved, you have roughly 90kWH to play with. To get 380 miles of range, you'd need to use ~237 WH/mile. I've done that, but it's a pain. Basically constant speed without slowing down or speeding up at ~40 mph on a flat road.
Still, lifetime averages seem to be around 315 WH/mile so 90kWH should result in about 285 miles before the car shuts down (without bricking).
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Those mileage figures need to be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Based on my own experience with my 70D (my real world range estimate = 200 miles) I estimate a 100D would have a range of around 285 miles. Which is still excellent.
I think 381 miles will only be possible driving 30mph on a flat road with no wind.
Do they publish the basis for the range numbers? I'd be most curious to know how using air conditioning on a hot day impacts range, or driving on hills, etc. 300ish miles is pretty darn good either way.
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Real world numbers for the 100D should be between 450 and 500 km (280 - 315 miles).
Well, which one is it? (Score:2)
... the vehicle has a range of 381 miles or 613 kilometers.
'Cause the kilometer range sounds way better... Is there a switch or something?
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Yes. The Tesla X with it's measly 532 horsepower is clearly lacking compared to the impressive 444 horsepower from the M3.
Dumbass.
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Does extremely well in bends due to very low center of gravity.
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Tesla S's power-to-weight ratio is around 0.27 and the M3's power-to-weight ratio is equally around 0.27. We need another season of Initial D to find out which one is better.
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My model S actually handles quite well in turns. It also is not surprisingly heavy for a car in its class, largely in part due to the all-aluminum body. Now the newer versions of my car have even better handling. My car weigh around 4700lbs (P85, 2013). A Lexus LS weighs between 4233 and 5115lbs according to Google [google.com].
Despite the weight, the car handling [cnet.com] is supurb [kbb.com] since all the weight is so low.
weight (was: Re:Meh) (Score:2, Informative)
The Model S is quite heavy. Bear in mind the Model S has the interior space of a Mercedes C-Class or BMW 3-series.
Comparing the curbside weights of the high-performance versions of saloon (American: sedan), as the Tesla markets itself as a high-performance car.
Tesla Model S 85D: 2188kg
Mercedes AMG C63: 1785kg
BMW M3: 1646kg
Audi A4 3.0V6 TDI: 1540kg
The Tesla is over 400kg heavier than a comparable internal combustion car.
Considering larger cars, the Mercedes AMG E63 estate (American: wagon), a significantly l
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Model S is wider than the Mercedes S or Audi A8, and about the length of a Mercedes E or Audi A6.
Drove a A4 for a week this summer, and it was ridiculously small.
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"Model S is SIGNIFICANTLY larger than a BMW M3, Mercedes C or Audi A4."
What counts is internal space. I've been in some large cars which are ridiculously cramped inside (Jgauar XJ12 being a classic example)
When comparing mass of a EV vs IC vehicle, you're not comparing apples with apples.
Acceleration is different as all the power and torque is available from stationary
Milage isn't affected nearly as much in a EV because mass doesn't affect rolling resistance much and acceleration energy losses are offset by
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Do those figures include fuel load? 80 litres of gasoline only weighs about 56Kg, but it is not light.
Re:Meh (Score:4, Informative)
Well with that the range will about catch up with my M3, but the horsepower and refuel time remain lacking.
1. A Tesla has more HP than a M3.
2. The "refueling" happens in your home, while you get on with your life, rather than waiting in line at the gas station.
For long trips, you either pre-plan so that your recharges coincide with a meal at a nice restaurant, or just use your spouse's car (or maybe your mom's).
Regardless, as somebody who actually likes driving, I would still never buy one.
Have you ever actually driven a Tesla?
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Whatever you do, don't take a Tesla test drive. Just don't.
It will make you hate your slow, noisy, polluting M3.
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Re: Meh (Score:2)
Good to hear.
Whatever it takes, make it work. It will be worth it.
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Re: Meh (Score:2, Insightful)
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It's really not safe, let alone desirable, to drive 7 hours non-stop without a rest break or food.
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Fuck, who has the bladder to go 7 hours non-stop?
The way I drink coffee or diet Coke when I drive, I have to piss every couple of hours.
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It's relative. Just like going on a long hike if you are conditioned to it, it really isn't anymore dangerous.
When I do long drives I time my stops where I'll run out of fuel. My current car that is roughly 455 miles or about 6 hours of constant highway driving. I spend no more than 10 minutes refueling and draining my bladder and am back on the road. If my car could drive more than 455 I still feel like I could go further, I wish I could get 7 hrs per stop then it'd be only 2 stops from Phoenix to Spokane.
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Just like going on a long hike if you are conditioned to it, it really isn't anymore dangerous.
Peeing only once in seven hours isn't dangerous to you? Not short term no, and not once in a while. But to say that that level of hydration and urination is good for your and A-OK is also a stretch.
You should both drink and piss more to stay safe in the long run, and I have that advice from a nephrologist.
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Maybe I'm conditioned to this because I never need to stop for a bathroom break before the car runs out of fuel. It really bugs me when someone want's to go with me because I know they are going to need to stop much more often. Of course they're guzzling a 44oz soda while I sip water as needed.
This.
I usually do my 5-6 hour drive with no stops, or one quick bio break, but I recently took it with 2 other people and this forced 3 stops on us. One of the stops was 20+ min. This turned what should have been a 5.5 hour drive into a 6.25 hour drive. Absolutely horrible.
I'm no fan of distance driving, but it's a lot better to get it done and over with rather than add 10-15% to the total time.
Also, Phoenix to Spokane? Wow. Hope you don't have to do that more than twice a year.
Why do you feel the need to lie? (Score:2)
30 minutes of super-charging gives you an extra 180 miles, not an extra 50.
This is how I know that Tesla is going to be super-successful, because the fact that most arguments against EVs include over-the-top lies indicates that the fundamental problem is (a) ignorance and (b) an irrational fear of change. History has taught us that both (a) & (b) will auto-correct.
Re: Why do you feel the need to lie? (Score:2)
Fair enough, my apologies. (Score:2)
(nt)
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One solution for long-haul EV trips is to use a pusher or generator trailer.
Think of it as a hybrid you can detach the engine from when you don't need it.
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Not Really Required.... (Score:3)
Batteries are generally extremely heavy in their weight to energy ratio compared to gasoline. They also cost a fair bit of money and take a while to charge if you manage to drain that huge of a battery. Even your regular 240v home outlet could take a while. At some point aside from bragging rights it becomes impractical to have a battery that big. The Volt only has about a 40 mile battery and I've made it through the entire summer without having to resort to gas on my daily trips. I've even forgotten to plug the thing in at times and it still had enough. Granted I live in a small city so that helps but I can't see what having past 200 miles gains for you. It might be a bit easier for cross-country trips if you're hopping supercharger stations but I have a bad feeling that you're paying a huge amount in extra weight and costs for that minuscule usage situation. (Unless driving hundreds of miles a day is normal for you.)
Re:Not Really Required.... (Score:5, Informative)
For me, I don't have a charger at home (live in a condo with garage parking). I charge at work. So having the extra range means I don't need to fight for chargers as often. Right now, with a 85kWH battery, I find myself charging about twice a week (including the weekend trips) at work. If I can knock that down to once a week, it'd make a big difference to me.
In dense urban places, that kind of mentality is probably pretty common.
The other benefit of a bigger battery is that superchargers will give you more range before going into the trickle-charge range. That should make refueling on a road trip faster.
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For me, I don't have a charger at home (live in a condo with garage parking). I charge at work. So having the extra range means I don't need to fight for chargers as often. Right now, with a 85kWH battery, I find myself charging about twice a week (including the weekend trips) at work. If I can knock that down to once a week, it'd make a big difference to me.
Could you knock it down, though? How much amperage can your employer's chargers deliver? Most of them are limited to 30A, which means it's going to take better than 12 hours to get 80 kWh on board. If they support the J1772-2009 80A mode then your car can take 72A (17.2 kW) and you can get a full charge in 4-5 hours. Otherwise, you may have to plug in twice per week just because you can't get enough during a single session.
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On my Model S, I get about 29 miles for every hour of charge. At 10 hours a night, that's 290 miles.
So, true, for home charging you're getting close to the upper limit ... and it's quite rare that I travel > 200 miles in a day.
But it's so comforting to know that I have a lot of extra wiggle room on those road trips with the family, when we don't know exactly which place we're going.
BTW, on the supercharger it's pretty common to get >190 miles for at least the first hour of charge. It slows down dram
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I couldn't survive with a 40 mile range. I really would like at least 200 miles so that I never have to sweat it. For cross country driving I think it's still gas only for me. I'll think about an electric vehicle when I can drive 300 miles on a charge and recharge it in an hour or less.
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I think you're right, if I lived in a city an electric car would be great. In a few years they'll probably be at the level where it would make sense for me too. Maybe in 5 or so years. Battery technology continues to improve.
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"For cross country driving I think it's still gas only for me"
Then hire a gasser when you need it.
Or fly cross country and hire a car when you land.
Re:Not Really Required.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Unfortunately not everyone is as luck as you with their commute, and some people do things on the weekend. 40 mile range is laughable. If it didn't also have gas engine it would sell as well as electric bikes...
What would be cool, is a quick way to add batteries. 150 mile standard, and add/remove battery where you can add multiple 25lb batteries under the back seat to get up to 300.
300, which isn't high(comparing to gas) is respectable and 20 min charge times are not much longer than normal fueling.
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"Even your regular 240v home outlet could take a while."
Like.... overnight?
If you need it to charge faster, get yourself a 3-phase power hookup. They're not terribly expensive.
What a joke... (Score:1)
I know they have to start somewhere, but electric cars still suck ass when it comes to range and convenience.
I can get in my 8000lb truck and drive 600+ miles before needing to refuel... and I can stop at nearly any fuel station to fill her up with 30+ gallons in 2-3 minutes(diesel pumps tend to be MUCH faster than gas pumps).
Then there is the problem of towing and hauling, with the technology available in the near future I can't see any way for an electric vehicle to be even remotely as capable as one tha
Re:What a joke... (Score:4, Informative)
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I think people who actually need to tow things are the niche market since most people don't. Most people here go from home to work, home to drop the kids at school, home to the store etc and for that the range of the Tesla is good enough.
For that a Nissan Leaf will do, really. But how often do you do those not so everyday things? If it's one trip a year maybe, if it's ten trips a year I have to take out a lease, go collect the car, inspect it for any damage so they don't blame me, transfer all my belongings, deal with an all new car and once I'm done drop it off and get home I'm not going to do it. Actually a Tesla would be pretty sweet, but it's also a premium car. I can get a compact that serves my needs for half the price if all I need i
Re:What a joke... (Score:5, Insightful)
"niche market" is kind of an overstatement. In fact, your usage scenario -- according to statistics -- is the "niche market". Very very few people actually need the ability to get into an 8000lb truck and drive 600+ miles before needing to refuel.
Most people need to drive 5-40 miles twice a day with a ~8 hour gap in between. Hardly a "niche market".
As for hauling and towing...it depends on your fleet size. Electric motors are actually far more ideal for the job of towing due to the flat torque curve. But if you're a one-truck-shop and can't swap trucks out to recharge (like larger businesses can) then ya, electric would be very impractical.
I could totally see shipping trucks being an ideal situation for electric. Regular schedules, a lot of dead-time and regular routes where chargers could be installed.
Realistically, gas cars *are* the niche market. The cost is what's keeping electric sales down. But battery cost/kWH is actually dropping quite a bit in recent years due to all the advances made for smartphones.
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"niche market" is kind of an overstatement. In fact, your usage scenario -- according to statistics -- is the "niche market". Very very few people actually need the ability to get into an 8000lb truck and drive 600+ miles before needing to refuel.
But a very high percentage of people who bash Tesla in online forums seem to have this as a critically important use case :-P
Re: What a joke... (Score:2, Funny)
If a job's worth doing, it's worth over-doing. I wouldn't be happy unless I had several thousand horsepower available, and a good few tens of tons so I can take a few knocks.
A tank. What I need is a tank. Armor plated for those dangerous 5 mile drives to the bus depot or Safeway. Enough power to tow my wife's Honda along with all the other cars in the neighborhood...simultaneously. Cuz you know that happens EVERY SINGLE FREAKIN DAY. I need a good size gas can on board for when I need the range. 200 gal cans
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"I could totally see shipping trucks being an ideal situation for electric"
Any kind of drayage work would be an ideal EV truck solution - and being a truck chassis you can hang a _lot_ more battery on the thing.
For long-haul transport regular IC (no hybrid) is still likely to be the most cost-effective solution.
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I can get in my 8000lb truck and drive 600+ miles before needing to refuel... and I can stop at nearly any fuel station to fill her up with 30+ gallons in 2-3 minutes(diesel pumps tend to be MUCH faster than gas pumps).
All very true, and a definite advantage for fuel-powered cars over battery-powered cars, in scenarios involving long-distance travel.
However, most people do not drive 600 miles at a stretch, so for them, there is not much advantage in being theoretically able to do so.
Just like with cell phones, as long as the car's battery can reliably last you until you're ready to plug in for the night and go to sleep, that's good enough. It will be fully charged again in the morning; any capacity above that is gravy.
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It's a balance of costs to benefits.
Until quite recently you were paying about $16,000 more for fuel over the life of your truck for that capability. Now it's about $8,000. (It may be much worse for your truck than I'm stating tho as those figured are based on 28mpg car vs the cost of electricity at 10 cents per kwh. Electric contracts go down as low as 8cpkwh and truck mileage can easily drop below 28mpg).
Your truck is actually more of a niche vehicle than electric cars. Electric cars match the most co
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I could drive about 2/3rds of the way across my country in a fully-charged Tesla S, but I couldn't charge it at home, nor at work. Even a free EV would be useless to me.
Only 121 Horses? (Score:1)
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From TFA (this is Slashdot, you're excused for not reading it):
[NOTE: An earlier version of this article suggested that the quotation of 90 kw (121 hp) for the Tesla's motor output was a typo or an error. We thank our reader Vigge50 for pointing out that EU requirements appear to require quoting maximum sustainable power over a long period, rather the peak outputs quoted by Tesla in North America. We've corrected the error.]
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it's measured weirdly with an electric car -- I'll let someone with much more knowledge of it than me explain.
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That seems surprising to me, since I have taken my Tesla P85 up numerous long steep grades in the Sierra Nevada mountains, usually driving well over the speed limit. The only thing I notice about going up grades like that is the battery drains rather faster than normal. 120HP (90KW) for steady driving is a lot. For freeway cruising in my model S I average around 35KW.
So it's about halfway where I would need it to be (Score:2)
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As good as a diesel in trying to cheat to actually pass emissions? Or is that in cost per mile?
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As good as a diesel in trying to cheat to actually pass emissions? Or is that in cost per mile?
Why not both? Electricity produced by burning coal/natural gas/gas has the same environmental impact as directly burning gas in cars. And in the future the EV owner need to pay extra road construction/maintenance fee because they don't pay through pump.
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Cost? (Score:3)
Re:Cost? (Score:4, Informative)
Or have they figured out how to pack more kilowatt-hours into the same physical space?
That one.
Tesla is changing the battery format [fortune.com] it uses now that the Gigafactory is open and they produce their own cells. This new cell design is optimized for the needs of Tesla, and not other things like laptops.
ANd who the fuck cares? (Score:1)
And Ford increased the gas tank size on Fusion from 14 to 16 US gallons....
yeah up the battery...what could go wrong... (Score:1)