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US Customs and Border Protection Wants To Know Who You Are On Twitter (eff.org) 348

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Electronic Frontier Foundation: U.S. border control agents want to gather Facebook and Twitter identities from visitors from around the world. But this flawed plan would violate travelers' privacy, and would have a wide-ranging impact on freedom of expression -- all while doing little or nothing to protect Americans from terrorism. A proposal has been issued by U.S. Customs and Border Protection to collect social media handles from visitors to the United States from visa waiver countries. The Electronic Frontier Foundation opposes the proposal and has commented on it individually and as part of a larger coalition. "CBP specifically seeks 'information associated with your online presence -- Provider/Platform -- Social media identifier' in order to provider DHS 'greater clarity and visibility to possible nefarious activity and connections' for 'vetting purposes,'" reports EFF. "In our comments, we argue that would-be terrorists are unlikely to disclose social media identifiers that reveal publicly available posts expressing support for terrorism." They say this plan "would unfairly violate the privacy of innocent travelers," would cause "innocent travelers" to "engage in self-censorship, cutting back on their online activity out of fear of being wrongly judged by the U.S. government," and would lead to a "slippery slope, where CBP would require U.S. citizens and residents returning home to disclose their social media handles, or subject both foreign visitors and U.S. persons to invasive device searches at ports of entry with the intent of easily accessing any and all cloud data."
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US Customs and Border Protection Wants To Know Who You Are On Twitter

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  • Would they believe (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sirber ( 891722 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:03AM (#52754683)
    that it's possible that someone doesn't have twitter and/or facebook?
    • Of course it is possible. Now, if you wouldn't mind stepping over here for your strip search...
    • that it's possible that someone doesn't have twitter and/or facebook?

      Probably they would regard it as proof that such a person (like me) is a terrorist looking to hide something...

    • by l3v1 ( 787564 )
      "that it's possible that someone doesn't have twitter and/or facebook?"

      Well, it's possible, but whether they'd believe it or not, that's an interesting question.

      It's also that someone has an account which they won't believe it's real, possibly causing problems - like my twitter acc, which I set up at the time of the Icelandic volcano eruptions 5-6 years ago to follow related news feeds and flight informations and never used it for anything else :)
      • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @10:18AM (#52755213)

        Well, it's possible, but whether they'd believe it or not, that's an interesting question.

        It's just a small slide down from...

        Gov't: Give us your password.
        Me: I don't remember.
        Gov't: We're throwing you in jail till you cough it up.

        ...to...

        Gov't: Give us your account name.
        Me: I don't have one.
        Gov't: We're throwing you in jail till you cough it up.

        • I think its more likely to be..

          Govt: So you don't use social media? Then we'd like to inspect your computing devices. Please ignore the fact that your devices now have new software installed on them. They're Freedom Apps designed to keep you safe.

    • by mwvdlee ( 775178 )

      The assumption is that you are a terrorist.
      Assuming you are a terrorist, why would you not use Twitter or Facebook?
      Because they are US products, and terrorists hate the US!
      Therefore you have now provided evidence to back up the assumption that you are a terrorist.
      If you did use Twitter or Facebook, the question would be why a terrorist would do so?
      The obvious reason would be that you were trying to create a fake cover story.
      You'd only need a cover story if you were a terrorist, therefore you have once again

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Opportunist ( 166417 )

        What are you talking about, last time I checked the only two groups that are still populating Twitter are SJWs and terrorists.

    • My case. I do not have Twitter or Facebook account and I do not intend to have one. If I try to enter the United States I will be accused of being a terrorist?
      • My case. I do not have Twitter or Facebook account and I do not intend to have one. If I try to enter the United States I will be accused of being a terrorist?

        Just point out that that's how they keep saying terrorists communicate so if you are one you're a shit one and no threat.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Sounds like a great excuse to search your phone and laptop for evidence of accessing twitter.com and facebook.com. Some phones come with the Twitter app pre-installed and unremovable.

    • If you don't have a twitter account it must be because Twitter shut you down in its efforts to get rid of terrorism on it's platform, ergo you're a terrorist.

      Now bend over while I get the glove.

    • I don't have either Facebook or Twitter. I guess that means I'm automatically "suspicious".

      The smart thing to do now is to create accounts on Facebook and Twitter and fill them with innocuous crap like cat pictures, chili recipes, and other banal stuff.

      No pics of kids or babies (because that means you're a pedophile!)
      No pics of city skylines (because that means you're a terrorist scoping out targets!)
      No "We support our troops!" stuff (because that means you're a militarist whacko!)
      No pics of bridges, build

    • Nobody RTFAed? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Cajun Hell ( 725246 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @12:07PM (#52756175) Homepage Journal

      Who is the "they" doing the believing? EFF?

      A lot of people, including the EFF, are mentioning Facebook and Twitter for some reason. Those sites are said to be fairly popular, so they might be good examples if you're trying to explain the issue to the mainstream.

      But if you actually click through to the .gov site's proposal, they don't say anything specifically about those two sites. They say "social media identifier." The page's only mention of Facebook is that the page has a Facebook-sharing widget.

      So: "social media identifier." For people who use Facebook, their facebook id would, indeed, happen to be something the government would be interested in. But if you don't use Facebook, then that's not what they're asking for. The presumption is that you socialize (to at least some degree) somehow. That may or may not be correct, but for 100.0% of the people who are reading this comment, it happens to be an accurate assumption.

      One good answer to their question might be: what's your Slashdot identifier? Well, if you log in, then it's your login name. Using that combined with some really large logs (presumably where the https was broken) they can see all the pages you requestedwhich uses that cookie, and infer what kinds of things you're interested in. And Slashdot already helpfully shows your posts, so they'll know what you're often saying. And that will happen to work fairly well for you, sirber [slashdot.org].

      If you don't log in, then they might like to know your ISP accounts (home and mobile) so they can check logs to see your IP address at certain times, to either directly tie it to Slashdot activity, or indirectly through, say, Google Analytics cookies or something like that. At some point, this crosses the line into the impractical, but let's remember: if you don't login to Slashdot, then the value of whatever identifies you on Slashdot is significantly lessened, since you're probably not maintaining persistent communications anyway, so they're less likely to care. They'd ask you about some other site.

      Other "site" presumes HTTP, though, and of course social media is far larger than just the web. Email might still possibly the biggest social media network of all, where your identifier would be your email address. IRC? Usenet? (Ok, we're sounding very old here. But maybe someone knows how to investigate old people.)

      If there's really nothing, then you probably are somewhat unusual (no, not a "terrorist," just unusual), so they might need to talk to you instead of just read about you in the other room. The presumption isn't Facebook and Twitter: it's just something.

      Something online. Maybe you spend all your time chatting people up in bars, in the real world, without a computer network. Then I suppose a photograph of your face is your social media identifier. No?

  • They say this plan "would unfairly violate the privacy of innocent travelers," would cause "innocent travelers"...

    I'd say that is EXACTLY the point of the idea if indeed they are actually doing this. Our government is most likely not quite that stupid even though sometimes they make a strong effort to prove me wrong. The vast majority of the time they invoke "terrorists" what they are really doing is finding ways to put their boot on the throats of normal citizens. The more subjugated the citizens are the easier it is for them to get what they want. Crime investigators see the constitution and civil rights as obsta

  • - Custom officer : Do you have a github account?
    - Me: Sure, it's x x x
    - Custom officer (takes one look at the github page, does a double-take): right this way sir. ... And that is how I found myself in Guantanamo, thinking I was going to visit my aunt in New York.

    • They'd find mostly "Fuck the US government, they're scumbags" on my FB page. Don't have (or want) a Twitter account...

  • even Slashdot qualifies as 'social media'. Given the propensity for over-reach that's been displayed by CBP and associated agencies, visitors to the US might soon be required to supply ALL of their usernames and pseudonyms to border agents. After that, I'm sure the passwords will be demanded too.

    BTW, this seems to be a dupe of a story first posted here in June: https://yro.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]

    • by pla ( 258480 )
      "Well, I don't use Facebook or Twitter, or even LinkedIn for that matter... But I can give you my handle for Slashdot, Fark, Reddit, Kuro5hin (oh wait, that went down), Metafilter, Digg, Voat, 4chan, Rotten, DeviantArt, Flixter, Diaspora, Stack Exchange, MySpace (never actually used it, but made an account)... Can I have another page to list these? Oh, and should I include game acounts too? This could take a while..."
  • by jittles ( 1613415 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:18AM (#52754785)
    I don't even have a twitter account and you know they aren't going to believe that. I was listening to the radio this morning and they were talking about roommates and pretty much everyone on the radioshow said they wouldn't trust anyone who they couldn't find on Twitter because not having an account is somehow suspicious to them. What the hell is this world coming to?
  • by Feneric ( 765069 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:18AM (#52754787) Homepage
    How would they prevent people from using sanitized "fake" accounts? Seems a pretty obvious work-around.
    • How would they prevent people from using sanitized "fake" accounts? Seems a pretty obvious work-around.

      I don't think they gave it that much thought.

    • How would they prevent people from using sanitized "fake" accounts? Seems a pretty obvious work-around.

      The point would be that if you lied about it and they find out later they have extra ammunition to prosecute you with. Basically either you give up private information or they charge you with perjury if they catch you hiding information. Either way you lose.

      • by Calydor ( 739835 )

        Which leads to, "We have discovered you have an account on MySpace created three days after the site started and never used. You failed to disclose this to the border agents and is considered reasonable suspicion to search all your belongings etc. etc."

    • Shhh. Just don't mention it, ok? Look, let me tell you how this works.

      They get to find an easy solution that costs little to nothing, so they can feel good about "doing something" while not really having to do anything. They can sell that to the idiots who actually believe this solves anything. And we get to simply continue with our life because it doesn't really bother us too much.

      Once you learn how the system works, it's far easier and less stressful to accept it.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:25AM (#52754825)

    Why do people still travel to the US? I haven't visited the country since they started treating visitors like criminals and I refuse any business travel towards the US. Sure, it may not always be avoidable for everyone, but if tourists simply stop coming, they will have to start treating their guests more normally at some point.

    • by Serif ( 87265 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:36AM (#52754881)

      Exactly my thoughts. I just got sick and tired of being treated like a criminal every time I went through immigration. And guess what, there are lots of other places around the world which are happy to see tourists and make them feel welcome. Who'd have thought it?

    • by Geeky ( 90998 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:52AM (#52754973)

      I'm glad I made several trips back in the 90s when it was still easy. On one road trip, we turned up without a single room booked - you could just put "touring" on the waiver form and it was accepted. Jumped in the hire car, found a motel. Spent five weeks touring with no fixed route, it was a great trip. More or less impossible now - I think you have to supply a complete itinerary.

      Last time I went was 2003, so post 9/11 and the shoe thing had come in but - at least at the airport I went through - that was about it. The horror stories I hear now put me off ever going back.

      I flew into Phoenix on that trip, straight form Heathrow. I wonder if the smaller international airports are a bit less hostile than the likes of JFK and LAX?

      • by 4im ( 181450 )

        From an EU citizen:

        In the 90ies, that form you had to fill was pretty ridiculous, as if ill-minded persons would write out their nefarious plans there. The humor-less stern look by the border agent was certainly just as efficient.

        I seriously doubt that the current security theater is much more effective though - but it does make sure I won't willingly travel to north america anytime soon. It's a pity really, I'd love to see some of the landscapes (Yellowstone, some of the canyons, Death Valley etc.)...

        • by T.E.D. ( 34228 )

          Death Valley isn't really anything special. The Grand Canyon, othh just cannot be adequately depicted in pictures. It was probably the inspiration for Douglas Adams's Total Perspective Vortex, which would drive people mad by showing them their actual importance in the universe.

          FWIW, I can remember a time when the US was indeed relatively lax, and it was Europe that it was a total PITA to travel in due to all the border security theater. Interesting that the shoe is now on the other foot.

    • I endorse what you wrote. I do not even think about traveling to the US to avoid such hassles. My country, Brazil, has a lot of defects but we do not treat visitors as if they were dangerous criminals.
    • Why do people still travel to the US? I haven't visited the country since they started treating visitors like criminals and I refuse any business travel towards the US. Sure, it may not always be avoidable for everyone, but if tourists simply stop coming, they will have to start treating their guests more normally at some point.

      Sucks to be Hawaii, but for the rest of the states, how much money do they make from tourism? Would that be a noteable dent in USA GDP?

      • by Enigma2175 ( 179646 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @10:38AM (#52755411) Homepage Journal

        From Wiki [wikipedia.org]:

        Purchases of travel and tourism-related goods and services by international visitors traveling in the United States totaled $10.9 billion during February 2013 ...
        In the US, tourism is either the first, second, or third largest employer in 29 states ...
        Tourists spend more money in the United States than any other country, while attracting the second-highest number of tourists

        • OK.. then the US should think twice about those ideas.

          And honestly, given the treatment you receive at the US border, I haven't expected tourism to be that popular. They are already doing a good job of not making you feel welcome.

          • by dryeo ( 100693 )

            Don't forget that a lot of those tourists will be Americans traveling in their country

    • The UK might actually be worse.

      https://medium.com/@rachelnabo... [medium.com]

      • That's a pretty terrible story, but technically, she did not have a valid visa to enter the country. How do you think someone attempting to enter the USA without a suitable visa would be treated?

        On the flip side, I would have thought that a rule that would have allowed her to enter if she were being paid by a UK company but did not allow entry because she was paid by a German country would be in violation of EU rules.

    • Why do people still travel to the US?

      Forced to. Interestingly enough one of the few countries I actually dread travelling to.

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Is it really more difficult to travel in the US as a foreigner than to travel to other countries? I can understand it being super easy to travel within the EU as a citizen but that isn't really a fair comparison. Is it easier to get into Singapore or China? I am of the opinion though that our welcoming committee is one of the worst in the world. Traveling back to the US into Philadelphia, I was very embarrassed by the way the TSA comported themselves. They were a bunch of stressed out armed assholes -bu
      • by bradley13 ( 1118935 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @03:09PM (#52757447) Homepage

        Once you arrive at the US, you have to get past passport control and customs. That's what most people worry about, but it's less unpleasant than getting the visa. The problem is only that the personnel act overworked, surly and suspicious - very unwelcoming.

        Far worse is the process of getting a visa, because this requires visiting the American embassy. The place is built like a prison, and that's pretty much the feeling you have when you are there: the personnel is behind thick glass windows with over-pressure against poison gas, talking to you through a crappy speaker. Even though you may "have an appointment" you often spend hours waiting. Sure, your appoint may begin on time, but then you wait again, then go to some other window, then wait some more, then go pay at the cashier, who may be on her lunch break...

        And you aren't allowed to take anything in with you. Just your wallet and any paperwork you may have. No bags, not a phone, not a Kindle. I've learned that they let me take in a physical paperback, a pad of paper and a pencil - that's as far as you can stretch the rules.

        The process of checking people to let them inside is slow, and the only place to wait is outside - if it's stormy, windy and raining, be sure to dress warmly. But not too warmly - you can't have a backpack or anything, because the embassy has no provision for your belongings. They don't want them on the premises, so you have to find someplace else to leave your stuff. The obvious spot is the train station, which is about a mile's walk away (there's no parking at the embassy, they're far too paranoid for that). This is really great for people who are visiting for the first time, because they naturally assume there will be lockers or some other provision for their belongings; they face a 40-minute walk to deposit their stuff elsewhere, missing their appointment. It is also great for families with babies or small children, since you can't bring in your kiddy bag to take care of them.

        The whole setup is a truly unbelievable PITA - you have to see it to believe it.

    • by Anubis IV ( 1279820 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @11:10AM (#52755687)

      they will have to start treating their guests more normally at some point.

      I think you underestimate our insular mentality and the degree to which we believe in American exceptionalism. Only 30% of us even have passports, despite the 2007 change that requires us to present them every time we re-enter the country, even if we just visited a neighboring nation. And regardless of whether it's true or not, I'd wager that most Americans would believe that the tourism taking place within or between states far outweighs the 80 million visitors that come to the US for tourist activities each year.

      On the flipside, I think you also overestimate the typical person's level of care about any of this stuff. I've opted-out of going through the body scanners every single time I've gone through an airport since they were introduced, but in all of those trips, I have yet to see anyone else do the same. While you and I might view this suggestion as an abridgement of our rights and a gross invasion of privacy, most people won't give it a second thought, simply because they've already made their vacation plans and a question on a form about something minor like that isn't enough to put them off. I wish it wasn't so, but we both know that to be true.

      The fact that international tourist visits to the US have grown in the last few years (only France receives more tourists, but we bring in nearly 4x as much tourism revenue as they do, and nearly 2x that of China, which is the next closest in terms of revenue) only provides evidence for the notion that these draconian measures haven't adversely impacted the industry.

  • by Zarhan ( 415465 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:27AM (#52754829)

    I'm planning to visit US in August 2017 to watch the total solar eclipse that pretty much is visible in lots of the states (path of totality goes from Pacific northwest to South Carolina). If this ruling gets implemented, I wonder what's would be more problematic: Leaving the field empty since I don't have any (well, I guess I could give my nick on IRCNet) or creating a throwaway account on Facebook without any content if they decide to look it up?

    Not that I really expect any true problems at the border, have visited US many times in the past due to business although not in last 5 years. Some agents have been more friendly than others...but no real problems whatsoever.

    • by starless ( 60879 )

      You are on a social site - you're "Zarhan" on slashdot.

      Hmmm... and perhaps some of your previous posts might warrant some additional investigation...

    • Honestly, best way would be to fly to Canada, and sneak into the US. There's plenty of ways to get in without inspection.

    • by prefec2 ( 875483 )

      You can visit the total solar eclipse from a nice camp site from Cuba. Alternatively you can experience your own eclipse.

  • by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:29AM (#52754843)
    i dont have a facebook account, (I HATE facebook)
    i do have a twitter account, but i never tweat to anybody ever, i only have a twitter account so i can read tweats from things that interest me, i just flag the spammers is about the only interaction i do
    • Border patrol has jurisdiction 100 miles inland from the border.

      So, the entire state of Hawaii & Rhode Island.

  • I put my phone number on goods I'm having shipped to America illegally so customs can call me for an explanation if they so desire. Yes, I'm trafficking things across the border that I'm not allowed to traffick across the border; and yes, customs inspects the package and decides it's fine.

    I still don't want them digging through my Facebook and shit. My Facebook is online and exposes a ton of shit to everyone; there is no expectation of privacy, and they're welcome to go looking, and I still don't want

  • Really? It's not even funny anymore, the fascists are winning, it's out of control....

    This initiative sounds like it was paid for by Twitter and Facebook to boost the creation of extra accounts that people can give the SS at the border while being themselves on another account...

  • No problem, officer. My Twitter handle is @TheConstitutionAppliesToEveryInteractionOfThe USGovernmentWithUSCitizensAnywhereInTheWorld.
  • Busywork (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jandersen ( 462034 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @09:47AM (#52754941)

    This is not supposed to achieve anything - except for making them look like they are "doing all they can". Last time I went to the Statets, I was required to fill in form that asked me"Are you coming to America to carry out terrorist offences?" or something like that. The things they come up with; I still haven't figured out how anybody can even ask such a question.

    • ... I was required to fill in form that asked me"Are you coming to America to carry out terrorist offences?"

      Same here when my sister wanted to visit Disney, is simply hilarious... Come on the US embassy, a real terrorist would answer "yes" to this kind of question? Is silly
  • the terms of your plea bargain require you to stay away from all social media sites.

  • Why should freedom of expression necessarily mean freedom of accountability for such expression?

    Not trying to troll... this is a serious question.

    Barring the situation where one is living under an actual oppressive regime wherein the government surreptitiously "silences" anyone who expresses disagreement with them, I don't see how that is an issue. The USA still definitely has its problems, but it is one of the furthest places I can think of in the world from having such a regime.

    I am not an advoca

  • by The Cisco Kid ( 31490 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @10:13AM (#52755179)

    is not "I don't have a facebook|twitter" account.

    It is "Huh? Whats a facebook?"

  • Dear US customs,

    from past experience visiting the (now no longer existing German Democratic Republic (Democratic as is Congo)) you could do so much more to make your country save. First, do not use Facebook or Twitter to find out anything about people. These services are used to project your public image. Second, in the old GDR no filthy foreigner could simple visit (except for those from West Berlin to East Berlin). You required an invitation. Third, everyone required a visa and you had to exchange some mo

  • "U.S. border control agents want to gather Facebook and Twitter identities from visitors from around the world."

    That would assume I have a Facebook or Twitter account, which I do not.

  • We're all @Snowden on Twitter, right?

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