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Education

ITT Tech Is Officially Closing (gizmodo.com) 420

Posted by msmash from the goodbye dept.
Reader Joe_Dragon shares a Gizmodo report: ITT Technical Institute is officially closing all of its campuses following federal sanctions imposed against the company. The for-profit college announced the changes in a statement: "It is with profound regret that we must report that ITT Educational Services, Inc. will discontinue academic operations at all of its ITT Technical Institutes permanently after approximately 50 years of continuous service. With what we believe is a complete disregard by the U.S. Department of Education for due process to the company, hundreds of thousands of current students and alumni and more than 8,000 employees will be negatively affected."
ITT Tech announced it was closing all of its campuses just one week after it stopped enrolling students following a federal crackdown on for-profit colleges. ITT Tech and other higher education companies like it have been widely criticized for accepting billions of dollars in government grants and loans while failing to provide adequate job training for its students. Last year, ITT Tech received an estimated $580 million in federal money (aka taxpayer dollars), according to the Department of Education.
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ITT Tech Is Officially Closing More

ITT Tech Is Officially Closing

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  • Universities aren't completely honest either (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @12:45PM (#52835205)

    So when are the FEDs going to shut down the big Universities? $180,000 of student loans and NO JOB prospects ... They aren't being honest either.

    • Re:Universities aren't completely honest either (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @12:56PM (#52835341)

      I went to ITT and now I write for Gizmodo. I applied to slashdot but I didn't have the errors per article count needed to be an editor

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I had a job lined up before I graduated, 20 grand in debt later. I didn't wait until graduation to start applying, plus I don't have a degree in something like archaeology

      • ... plus I don't have a degree in something like archaeology

        And that's why you don't get to do nifty things like fighting Nazis or collecting alien skulls.

    • Simple rule (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      There should be a simple rule, NO federal loans going to FOR PROFIT institutions. It does not make sense to give out federal loans to institutions that exist mainly to make money out of their students.

    • False equivilency (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @01:24PM (#52835593)

      So when are the FEDs going to shut down the big Universities? $180,000 of student loans and NO JOB prospects ... They aren't being honest either.

      You do realize that you don't have to go to an expensive private university, right? Anyway if I go get a Harvard degree it will cost me a lot of money but I will in all likelihood have gotten an actual education along the way. You can argue that it isn't a good deal financially but you do get something at the end of the day. If you can't turn a Harvard degree into some sort of job you're doing it wrong. Comparing Harvard to or even a state university to ITT Tech is ridiculous.

      Companies like ITT (I don't really think of them as schools) basically provide a near worthless degree which nobody respects and doesn't open doors. They do so knowing that a large percentage of their customers (students) will fail out. They exist to load credulous low income people with debt while failing to provide them a real education. They prey on people who probably really aren't the sort of people who are college material in the first place. College is great but it isn't the right path for everyone. Trade schools would serve many of them much better and there is a clear need for skilled trades.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by dosius ( 230542 )

        Part of the problem is that there's a push to put as many high school students into college (even 2-year college) as possible, even those who would be better served going to vocational schools.

        Protip: You can't outsource blue collar work.

        -uso.

        • Protip: You can't outsource blue collar work.

          That's what "temporary" employment visas are for.

        • Trades (Score:5, Insightful)

          by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @01:46PM (#52835867)

          Part of the problem is that there's a push to put as many high school students into college (even 2-year college) as possible, even those who would be better served going to vocational schools.

          I could not agree more. I have a staff full of people who are definitely not college material but would be (and are) served well by a vocational education. There is always a need for skilled trades, welders, machinists, etc. Trying to turn everyone into a computer programmers regardless of aptitude is just idiotic and counterproductive. Not to mention costly.

          Protip: You can't outsource blue collar work.

          Care to wager on that? Ask the folks who work the assembly lines in Detroit if blue collar work cannot be outsourced. There are plenty of blue collar jobs that are very vulnerable to outsourcing when you live in a place with high labor costs like the US.

          • skilled trades, welders, machinists, etc

            And those were great 19th & 20th century trades. The 21st century trades are IT, networking, programmers, etc. Part of what makes it hard to get modern trades started is people like most Slashdotters that insist programming requires a 4 year degree.

        • LMOL no one is forcing you Potsy. And the so called push is employers that require a college degree.

        • Re:False equivilency (Score:5, Insightful)

          by zrobotics ( 760688 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @01:53PM (#52835947)
          While you can't outsource blue collar work, look at the way many of the trades have changed in the last quarter century. While plumbing, electrical, and HVAC are still great money-makers, many other trades are nowhere near as good as they once were. Craftsmanship isn't valued, customers don't know or care how shoddily their mcmansions are built. Additionally, it's hard to find Americans (of any race) who are willing and able to do the work. Anyone with a work ethic and half a brain has been convinced they need college and an office job. Technology has also eliminated many blue collar jobs, mainly in manufacturing. This is happening worldwide; a machinist friend is one of only two machinists employed at his plant. 15 years ago this company employed 14 machinists and machine operators, and the business has grown since then. While the trades are safer than programming jobs, they aren't immune or safe by any measure.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Etcetera ( 14711 )

        So when are the FEDs going to shut down the big Universities? $180,000 of student loans and NO JOB prospects ... They aren't being honest either.

        You do realize that you don't have to go to an expensive private university, right? Anyway if I go get a Harvard degree it will cost me a lot of money but I will in all likelihood have gotten an actual education along the way. You can argue that it isn't a good deal financially but you do get something at the end of the day. If you can't turn a Harvard degree into some sort of job you're doing it wrong. Comparing Harvard to or even a state university to ITT Tech is ridiculous.

        Companies like ITT (I don't really think of them as schools) basically provide a near worthless degree which nobody respects and doesn't open doors. They do so knowing that a large percentage of their customers (students) will fail out. They exist to load credulous low income people with debt while failing to provide them a real education. They prey on people who probably really aren't the sort of people who are college material in the first place. College is great but it isn't the right path for everyone. Trade schools would serve many of them much better and there is a clear need for skilled trades.

        What part of "ITT Technical Institute" makes you think that you're not going into a program that's functionally at the trade school level? In San Diego, it and Coleman College were both seen by anyone I've known as a way to learn functional skills in a given area. It's not a 4 year collegiate undergrad experience, and I can't see why anyone would think so.

        People are ragging on "for-profit colleges" as some hideous evil, but whatever your experiences with Brightpoint, Ashford, or some other trendy places, IT

        • What part of "ITT Technical Institute" makes you think that you're not going into a program that's functionally at the trade school level?

          Perhaps because they don't advertise themselves as being a trade school? Or because they aren't one. ITT Tech advertises having 6 schools. Please point out which one is the trade school:
          School of Electronics Technology
          School of Drafting and Design
          School of Information Technology
          School of Business
          School of Criminal Justice
          Breckinridge

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Ogive17 ( 691899 )
      I don't recall the public universities claiming 99% job placement rates.

      We need quality trade schools, like ITT use to be. I'm in the mid-west, there are so many manufacturing facilities that cannot find enough trained machinists to keep up with production.

      • Re:Universities aren't completely honest either (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @01:52PM (#52835935)

        that cannot find enough trained machinists to keep up with production

        That's because the entry level job is now open for Journeyman with 5+ years of experience, working $8/hr. Maybe if they did what they used to and hire dozens out of highschool for minimum wage, laid off the stoners and kept the ones who learned they'd have trained machinists again like companies did for centuries, but there's no instant gratification in that plan.

        Instead they just hope someone else trains their employees for them, and whine like entitled brats when it turns out nobody's interested in doing that.

    • They were pretty honest to me. Get a CSC degree and have your choice of jobs.

      Maybe you just didn't actually read what the job prospects for your major are/were?

    • You should look more closely at the data [wikipedia.org]. That 4-year degree (from a real institution, not ITT or Devry) is worth much more than $180,000 in increased wages and increased prospects over the course of a career.

      Unemployment in particular drops more than 25% for those with a 4-year degree.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by starX ( 306011 )
      The role of a college or university is to provide education, not necessarily job training, and I don't know of any not-for-profit institutions of higher education that are being dishonest about that. ITT Tech, and its ilk, by contrast, explicitly promise to provide vocational training that will give you the skills needed to be able to get, keep, and excel at certain jobs, and they have clearly failed to do that, while engaging in predatory admissions processes.

  • Don't Worry... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Rob Riggs ( 6418 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @12:45PM (#52835213) Homepage Journal
    Don't worry. The same people will have already started a new company, under a new name, which does exactly the same thing as the old company. Bonus points if they also have ITT Educational Services, Inc. sell all the trademarks for "ITT Technical Institutes" to the new company.
    • If they do *EXACTLY* the same thing, then they will also be subject to the US DOE crackdown. They will *HAVE* to do something differently in order to survive.

      • They will *HAVE* to do something differently in order to survive.

        Programming boot camps. Big money now that the federal government is getting involved.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Rob Riggs ( 6418 )

        I would be surprised if they cannot do exactly the same thing. The problem ITT Educational Services, Inc. currently faces is the sanctions imposed on them. A new company won't be under the same sanctions. It takes time to build up enough history to be sanctioned by DOE. Playing whack-a-mole with unethical corporate entities is a long-held tradition in the US. This is because we consistently fail to hold corporate officers accountable for their actions.

        I would love to be wrong about this.

  • Now people can take a look at their local community college options without being distracted by ITT ads.

    If the feds could arrange to move the the $580 billion to the community colleges to fund more technical programs, they might find they get value for money.
     

    • I have seen commercials for ITT Tech over the past 40+ years, but I have never worked with anyone who attended there. Conversely, I attended a Technical Institute that didn't broadcast commercials all the time.

      The moral of the story is: Let your curriculum and graduates speak for the school's quality, not a TV commercial.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kenh ( 9056 )

      Now people can take a look at their local community college options without being distracted by ITT ads.

      Right, that's what kept people from applying to their local community college...

      If the feds could arrange to move the the $580 billion to the community colleges to fund more technical programs, they might find they get value for money.

      Don't confuse federal loan guarantees with actual money - that $580 Million (not Billion) is owed by the students to the lenders, not as grants from the federal government.

      • Re:Well Good. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by TechyImmigrant ( 175943 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @01:18PM (#52835545) Homepage Journal

        Now people can take a look at their local community college options without being distracted by ITT ads.

        Right, that's what kept people from applying to their local community college...

        If the feds could arrange to move the the $580 billion to the community colleges to fund more technical programs, they might find they get value for money.

        Don't confuse federal loan guarantees with actual money - that $580 Million (not Billion) is owed by the students to the lenders, not as grants from the federal government. In order for the local community colleges to get the $580 Million that previously went to ITT Tech the local community colleges would have to raise tuition to the level charged by ITT Tech.

        In the case of my local college, it was oversubscribed and the technical programs were limited and oriented to licensed trades.
        However for first year college, they cover the same stuff as any other college for a fraction of the price and the results counted towards a degree in the state universities. So you if you played it right, you could get a serious discount on your education. This worked for 2 of 4 children, the other 2 went straight to uni. It also serves as a path to escape high school early. College is such a better learning environment than high school.

        Hence - if the US government wants cost effective college teaching, fund the community colleges to do it. They have a track record and a customer base. The local colleges would not need to raise tuition at all. They are able to teach at a specific cost per student. There's no need for it to change because they take on a few more techy courses.

        Point taken on it being loans though.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by slew ( 2918 )

          Hence - if the US government wants cost effective college teaching, fund the community colleges to do it. They have a track record and a customer base. The local colleges would not need to raise tuition at all. They are able to teach at a specific cost per student. There's no need for it to change because they take on a few more techy courses.

          As a reminder that sometimes community colleges aren't necessarily the panacea you only need to look at City College of San Francisco...

          Apparently the financial governance at CCSF is so bad, they have been threatened with losing their accreditation. They are currently now on probation. Elected officials (since it is a public community college, board members are elected by the citizens of SF) were convicted of diverting/laundering bond money to finance election campaigns, and accreditation audits showed 1

  • How much money goes to the favored public and private institutions from the federal government? There are plenty of worthless degrees you can get at any institution. None of their promises of employment or employment at a particular wage are worth anything.

    Why is it all right to go after the technical schools and not go after everybody else?

    They should just stop the funding and let all the colleges adapt. The more they've subsidized students costs of attending, the higher the tuition has been priced. Ju

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ADRA ( 37398 )

      Take away a GI's right to go to school after service. That's a great political move.. The reason ITT and co. were specifically targeted was because they were playing games with their employment numbers. That assumes that the enrollee's even completed their programs, which should be a condition for that individual's education.

      Basically it comes down to people making bad decisions with their education choices and having someone else (the gov) paying for their mistakes. If you're giving someone free money, mak

    • RTFA ass-hole. These for profit schools are ripping off students and tax payers. FYI they want access to student loans because that's all the federal money available. Pell grants provide next to nothing for financial aid so you need loans to pay for education.
    • Subsidized loans and a few grant programs are about the only way the federal government invests in higher education (not counting the research dollars, which are also huge but cover research activity). Most states have reduced their funding of the public institutions, which pretty much guarantees higher tuition for students. The biggest driver of costs in higher education is personnel, and one of the biggest personnel costs is health insurance.

      If you want to reduce the cost of attending a public universit
  • >> received an estimated $580 million in federal money (aka taxpayer dollars)

    Heh - as if what we paid came close to what the Feds spent. If you're going to use snide-ness, why not try "a.k.a. yet more debt"?

    On the other hand, where do you think all those "job training" dollars that a lot of people keep demanding go? The Feds feel pressured to spend them on...well...something...regardless of actual results.

  • It would be great if the Department of Education would impose the same scrutiny on the so-called non-profit state and private colleges...

  • Good (Score:5, Interesting)

    by geek ( 5680 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @12:55PM (#52835325)

    I had a friend that worked at the office of one of these campuses. She told me that 99% of the time they didn't even have a teacher for the class until the day before it started, let alone lesson plans or anything else. She quit after the second FBI raid and never looked back.

  • "permanently after approximately 50 years of continuous service. "

    Should be:

    "permanently after approximately 50 years of ripping off the American taxpayer and tricking it's so called students"

  • Went to ITT (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @12:58PM (#52835357)

    Having gone to ITT Tech AND then having gone to get my BSEE from an accredited university I can say without doubt those schools are designed to let you pass with a minimum amount of effort. HOWEVER, you CAN get a tremendous amount of knowledge IF you step up to do the extra work, which is what I did. That being said if you are willing to step up and be that self motivated to do that much work then it's no harder to go to a normal uni and getting a real degree.. which I did 2 years after going to ITT tech.. it was an expensive waste of time and energy that would have been better put to something else.... like a real degree. I did find the first few years of EE classes pretty easy due to what I had previously learned... but the path I took mistakenly took is not one I would recommend for others.. It REALLY wasn't worth it in time or money.

    good riddance.

    • Re:Went to ITT (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Acron ( 1253166 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @02:37PM (#52836305)

      I guess it's gotten a lot worse from 20+ years ago. My ITT two year degree from 23 years ago is accredited, and employers at the time were very happy with graduates from the particular ITT I attended. At the time, they had a 100% placement rate for everyone who graduated and did not go on to further education (and that was my whole reason for going, as my 4 year engineering degree from a top 10 school got me and 70% of the graduating class na-da : and the rest broke down as 20% going on to grad school and 10% being the chem engineers getting hired to go work in Saudi Arabia). But that quality came from the local ITT staff, not the corporate level. I heard even back then that the quality of your education depended on which location you went to. And it was definitely a heck of a lot easier than my 4 year degree, but also one heck of a lot more practical (which makes sense given it was a degree for a technician working on circuit boards, etc, not an engineer designing parts or systems).

  • so sad :( (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @01:02PM (#52835391)

    I was a student there. That was the best 7 years of my life -- good friends, better drugs, best sex. I'd drink a red bull and viagra on Friday afternoon and fuck 10-15 dudes before Monday came around. I'm working as a fullstack junior web engineer at a SF startup so there's just as much, if not more, sex, but I miss the drugs and friends. Skipping work because I'm hungover isn't quite the same as skipping class because I'm hungover.

    I plan on doing my own startup in a couple months, once I get a cofounder, raise a series A and find an idea. I wouldn't be here without ITT so this is a little sad for me :(

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ADRA ( 37398 )

      You're comment was just sad and ridiculous enough to have the hint of reality. I enjoyed that, so thanks for warming my morning.

  • Where else can I go and do very little and get a degree that no-one takes seriously if they close down ITT Tech.

    Thank goodness I still have the University of Phoenix to go to.

  • Last year, ITT Tech received an estimated $580 million in federal money (aka taxpayer dollars), according to the Department of Education.

    In the form of federal grants? GI Bill Tuition payments? Or, the most likely form, as federally guaranteed student loans - which aren't really "taxpayer dollars" until the student fails to pay their loan payments.

    • Pell Grants (which do not have to be repaid) and subsidized loans, which do, but the interest is covered by the feds until they are paid (they are interest-deferred while in school).

    • ITT was one of the groups that specifically targeted GI's. At one point I remember reading that 80% of their revenue came from the DOD. The Fed's have moved aggressively against these colleges targeting vet's. ITT was disbarred from taking GI bill money a week or so ago and this is the result.

  • devry & ITT used to be good. But collage for all push made it so you needed an degree so they kind of got roped into the degree system. Now for real good accreditation you needed the full load of filler and fluff with I think masters or higher / phd level professors.

    Now unlike the trade schools the professor at the collages they for the most part have little to no real world work experience (out side of the ivy tower)

    https://www.dslreports.com/for... [dslreports.com]

    I used to know an Programer who went to an state schoo

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      my god man. what skool did you's go to for lerning to spelling?

      I want to make damn sure my kids do not land in the same place!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by JustNiz ( 692889 )

      > devry & ITT used to be good

      I can see exactly why you'd think that just from the quality of your own writing.

  • Finally! (Score:3)

    by ErichTheRed ( 39327 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @01:10PM (#52835463)

    I know ITT Tech and other for-profit schools fill a gap in the education system, but this whole sector seems perfectly positioned to scam uneducated people out of student loan money, VA benefits, trade adjustment benefits, etc. and give them very little in return.

    The vast majority of potential students would be much better served going to community college, or if they're in a strong union state, joining a trade's apprenticeship program and actually getting paid while learning.

    • Be careful, you just suggested that Trade Unions have some value. The Randroids are probably massing at your door right now.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by al0ha ( 1262684 )
      It is the failure of our country to realistically commit to the education of the populace that is to blame for the rise of for-profit schools like ITT

      For as long as I can remember, every politician in every election has espoused the position that they support education - damn liars every single one of them, Republican or Democrat.

      I can remember at least 4 decades of broken promises on supporting education, as community and state colleges around the nation cut costs and negatively effected the student

  • Between Trump U and this story (Score:3, Insightful)

    by marmot7 ( 4676645 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @01:22PM (#52835577)
    People now have no excuse to choose to go into debt to attend one of these places. If there are still people open to a pitch like this, what else can be done? Sure, go after the colleges but they're like moles. It's buyer beware and take some responsibility. Frankly, I would choose a state university or community college or some other option that enables you to get a decent education without too much debt. It's not worth the crazy debt levels and everyone should now know that the for profit college space is more than a bit sketchy.

  • For-profit? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    So what about all of the universities that operate with the same motives? I happen to know that the drive to get more Adjunct
    Faculty is money/profit driven. As are all of the fees ( Parking, meals, activity, recreational, computer, lab, etc... ).
    They scream for tuition and fee hikes while having billions of endowments and holdings...
    Graduate students are used as cheap intellectual laborers...
    Most Universities ask a job applicant (technical only, in my experience ) "How much money can you bring in?"
    Research

  • My former "school" went down too (Score:3)

    by wjcofkc ( 964165 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @01:43PM (#52835821)
    Just before the dot com collapse of the last century, I was just getting started with a couple years of freelance PC tech stuff and minor web design under my belt as I worked my way up the business desktop support chain at Gateway dreaming of more challenging things. These "schools" were hot stuff then. I foolishly decided to go for it. I don't remember the name of the place, although a lady friend of mine I met there insists to this day it was a satellite office for Stanford University. Needless to say it is not, she does not work in IT, and the school went poof shortly thereafter.

    As a testament to their teaching, in the Linux class, I had to show the instructor how to compile source code and so on. By the time I was thinking about calling quits, it was obvious that I was now effectively teaching the more general A+, Network, 50+ student class. The day before an open note test, the lady mentioned above asked to xerox my notes. When I came in the next day, every last student had a copy of my notes. Why? Because they had zero confidence. I walked right out.

    So now I am just reminiscing but you get the idea.

  • Received $$$ via government loans (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "ITT Tech received an estimated $580 million in federal money (aka taxpayer dollars),"

    The wording in the article and summary make it sound like government just wrote them a check. Wrong. The school received the money because its students, like 70+% of the rest of the students in the country, are taking government loans and grants to pay for their schooling.

    Too bad the story wasn't about the Department of Education closing its doors forever.

  • There goes that job track (Score:4, Funny)

    by damn_registrars ( 1103043 ) <damn.registrars@gmail.com> on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @02:00PM (#52836027) Homepage Journal
    I was considering applying to be faculty at ITT. I figured at this point in my career if I can no longer be part of the solution I might as well be part of the problem, right? I'll have to find a different for-profit college to go after instead.

  • Good. (Score:3)

    by JustNiz ( 692889 ) on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @02:49PM (#52836379)

    Good riddance.
    This will end one of the major sources of hacky/bad programmers.

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