Indonesia Wants To Criminalize Memes (dailydot.com) 163
While the United States has the First Amendment to justify the spread of memes that may ridicule political figures for example, the Indonesian government doesn't. In fact, it is looking to criminalize internet users for posting memes. The Daily Dot reports via Jakarta Post: Its Electronic Information and Transactions Law (ITE) punishes any electronic media communication that incites fear or embarrassment under its defamation article. The public has continuously called for the article's removal, but instead Indonesia is introducing more restrictions to freedom of expression. Posting memes, texts, pictures, or videos would be punishable if found to have a defamatory or slanderous tone. According to the Indonesian government, this provision stands to prevent and control cyberbullying. But it can further be used as a political tool against opposition during elections. Since its implementation in 2008, 200 people have been prosecuted according to data from the Southeast Asia Freedom of Expression Network. Among the most notable cases, was the prosecution of Prita Mulyasari in 2009 for complaining about Omni International Hospital services on an online mailing list.
Reading fail (Score:2)
I read TFS title as "...criminalize mimes"
So naturally, I figured that they had a problem with players of Twisted Metal.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Someone should make an Indonesia Stupid Meme (Score:2)
Stupid is as stupid does. Someone should make a meme pointing out how stupid Indonesia is.
Something like this [mememaker.net], this [pinimg.com] or this [imgflip.com]
--
A downvote is NOT I disagree.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Thing is, Indonesia will filter that meme from their media, so the people who need to hear the message, won't. A lot like North Korea today, and the USSR in the 1970s.
Re: (Score:2)
I know this is a slippery slope but I for one would love to see Meme's disappear. If you are unable to articulate your thoughts in an educated manner then you really have no place at the table.
At this rate our communications will devolve from Memes back to Hieroglyphics. "Dewd she schooled you, she showed you the *bird* "
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Not a cliche or Lazy Language, but a linguistic term used in debate.
Re: (Score:2)
Communication is about reaching people, if you don't care to communicate with people who consume memes, that's your choice... it will, however, mean that your ideas are less easily heard by those people.
Re: (Score:2)
This was created especially for you: https://imgflip.com/i/1btarm [imgflip.com]
Enjoy!
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Bingo !
Brilliant !
+1 Funny.
Major religion? (Score:2, Insightful)
The majority (~87%) are Muslim. This is not a coincidence.
Re: Major religion? (Score:1)
How quickly did they take the place over? Do the locals not care? Or were they raped/beaten/killed if they did not convert?
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Major religion? (Score:4, Interesting)
The logical spiral is kind of interesting.
Read the links. This was a "cyber-bullying" law basically copied from similar USA attempts to stop "cyber-bullying". From that, a silly blog is written and then submitted as TFA by a /. submitter who boils cyber-bullying to "memes". That sets it up for a master persuader like yourself to inform us that the laws to stop cyber bullying come from radical Islam. Oh, wait, sorry... that was MY spin.
My guess isn't that it comes from Indonesia's peaceful Muslims, but by some sectarian Indonesian graduate of a California liberal arts program. But I don't know that, I'm only able to recognize my own confirmation bias.
Photosnarks (Score:1)
"Meme" is a word for the carrying of information, in the concept that information can spread and mutate, in analogy to genes carrying genetic information.
What they're talking about criminalizing is photosnarks.
Re: (Score:2)
Nice try, but that word's never going to stick.
Sometimes the name for the concept becomes the name of a common example. And there's nothing you can do about it now.
As I understand, "meme" was a term for the smallest unit of transmissible information - meaning genetic or otherwise. Blame Dawkins for tying biology to philosophy - he's not the first one to do it. Einstein's theory of relativity is what eventually led to the idea of moral relativism.
Re: (Score:2)
Since you obviously didn't understand Dawkins writing (difficult - he is a very good, clear writer), you missed that he was tying together
Re: (Score:2)
I think you should look closer. Whether the scientists themselves did it or not, major changes in understanding in science precipitate changes in philosophy and culture with an odd resemblance.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
My guess isn't that it comes from Indonesia's peaceful Muslims, but by some sectarian Indonesian graduate of a California liberal arts program.
Not quite, but fairly close.
Its Indonesia, which means its as corrupt as a 20 yr old MS Access database. Basically this is just a politician bignoting themeves by putting forward a law that is imposisble to enforce to make it look like he's doing something other than collecting taxpayer money and bribes.
This kind of shit is commonplace in South East Asia, it happens everywhere from Muslim Malaysia to Buddhist Thailand to the Christian Philippines. Hell, if you want to see some really fucked up laws at the m
Re: (Score:2)
There's nothing atheistic about a Communist personality cult. The figurehead is an explicit God-substitute. Same mental bug, different exploit.
Re: (Score:1)
What you want to say is: "Using politics to deal with religions other than your own as an excuse to force your religion upon others? All of them."
You are probably referring to the USSR under Stalin whose ideology is closer to Christianity and Nazi Germany whose ideology is closer to (ironically) Maccabees Judaism. They were both ideologies that are similar to religions. They were ideologies constructed by reason (hello Kant, Hegel, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Marx, ...) but became the revelation of a new kind
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Censoring the internet never works (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse
The first step (Score:2)
Perhaps Indonesia runs off with some creative legislation some would frown upon they would wish to make the rule of law the finite authority above religion first...
Re: (Score:2)
Fuck FL, Fuck SC and FUCK PUTIN. This msg brought to u by FUCK stupid nation states.
What exactly do you have against Florida and South Carolina?
#NotAllPepes (Score:1)
What's more ridiculous, memes being "speech" in Indonesia or money being "speech" in America?
Re: (Score:2)
Watch and learn (Score:3, Insightful)
We're about to get this too. Can't let a feeling be hurt, can we?
Re: (Score:2)
Well, pretty much the US and Europe, with the US being actually more in danger than the EU from what I can currently see.
The concept of "banning" something (Score:3)
is a meme.
A meme is any discrete unit of culture. Good luck banning that, idiots.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:The concept of "banning" something (Score:5, Informative)
Therefore if you say you're "banning memes" you need to specify.
No, in this case you really don't have to specify. The law is a general ban on "any electronic media communication that incites fear or embarrassment" and is not actually specific to image memes. It's a broad law that allows the government to punish anyone that puts anything online that they don't like. It covers both definitions of meme and then some.
What are memes (Score:1)
You are conflating the two definitions of meme. Richard Dawkins coined the term meme to refer to what you just stated... but the newer definition is (and what the posts are talking about) are the more contemporary uses of meme images, generally referred to as "memes"
That's why I call the other one-- typically a picture with a short sarcastic caption-- a photosnark.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:The concept of "banning" something (Score:5, Insightful)
Censorship laws don't have to make sense or be applied consistently; they just have to give power to rulers looking to put enemies in jail.
Re: (Score:1)
Pendantic nonsense. A 'meme' is whatever the authorities enforcing the law say it is.
Cyber bullying? (Score:2)
According to the Indonesian government, this provision stands to prevent and control cyberbullying.
Apparently only government controlled cyber bullying is allowed.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Indonesia is for cows. (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
A1 posts are that important.
Sadly, typical for a Muslim country. (Score:3)
This deplorable lack of self-confidence is common in Muslim countries. In the West we think it's laughable, but it goes to such extremes where bloggers are targeted and killed - see Bangladesh, for instance.
Re: (Score:2)
This deplorable lack of self-confidence is common in Muslim countries. In the West we think it's laughable.
Your micro-aggression against Muslims triggered me. Check your privilege, this is no laughing matter!
Re: (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
The US doesnt have a culture to lose.
Re: (Score:1)
Private operations have always been like that. BYU expels students for growing a beard.
Re:And as crazy as that seems (Score:4, Informative)
Is this why Hillary Clinton declared war against Pepe?
Probably, it's also the reason she's all for the infantilization of academia and supports safe-spaces and trigger warnings for "scary" things. After all, Pepe wasn't a hate symbol until Donald Trump used it. Well that, and the Clinton Campaign wrote an article on it, based off an article where the author was trolled so hard that despite the troll standing on the bridge and saying "I'm a troll, suckers" they still ran with it.
Re: (Score:2)
Why is it that La Clinton is automatically and personally responsible for every opinion spouted by some random blogger who happens to think she's less terrible than the other option?
Why is it you have poor reading comprehension? The person you replied to wrote:
"After all, Pepe wasn't a hate symbol until Donald Trump used it. Well that, and the Clinton Campaign wrote an article [hillaryclinton.com] on it, based off an article where the author was trolled so hard that despite the troll standing on the bridge and saying "I'm a troll, suckers" they still ran with it."
I linked in the Clinton campaign article, which wasn't linked in the original comment.
Holy Clickbait Title, Batman! (Score:2)
Its Electronic Information and Transactions Law (ITE) punishes any electronic media communication that incites fear or embarrassment under its defamation article ... Posting memes, texts, pictures, or videos would be punishable if found to have a defamatory or slanderous tone.
Right, so it's not banning memes at all, it's banning slander. The fact you can post slander in the form of a dank meme is not the same as banning memes.
Obviously... (Score:2)
In soviet India, meme criminalizes you!
Re: (Score:2)
I thought this was obvious, but this is the first instance I've seen, more than halfway through the comments.
Note: India and Indonesia are not the same country.
Oye whe (Score:1)
Indonesia is muslim what do you people expect ?
Does Indonesia even have political freedom? (Score:2)
Call me ignorant (and maybe somebody will), but my running impression of Indonesia is that of a semi-authoritarian government with a lot of laws controlling political speech and behavior in addition to probably enshrining majority religious beliefs in law.
In this context, the law seems entirely expected. The political hegemony wants to control them because they pose a political control risk, the religious leadership is probably eager to back anything that reinforces the ability to enforce religious power v
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
How will people in Indonesia know... (Score:2)
How will people in Indonesia know if their cat wants a cheeseburger or not?
Cautionary Tale... (Score:3)
First they came for the Harambe, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a handsome gorilla.
Then they came for the most interesting man in the world, and I did not speak out—
Because when I do, I do it silently.
Then they came for nutsack squirrel, and I did not speak out—
Because I did not have big nutz.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
-Mustard Man
It's possible (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's possible than an Indonesian meme has no spoon.
It's equally likely that their spoon is too big, and I am a banana.
Re: (Score:2)
It's possible than an Indonesian meme has no spoon.
It's equally likely that their spoon is too big, and I am a banana.
That's illegal in Indonesia.
ICANN (Score:2)
What the fuck ?! (Score:1)
Wew lad! (Score:2)
You can't really control memes. (Score:2)
Admittedly being pedantic, but: The definition of "meme" has really been bastardized by the existence of stupid Facebook photos with humorous text in them.
A meme-- quoting wikipedia-- will "self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures." An example of an *actual* meme is that of God. God is, essentially, a human idea that has quite successfully survived thousands and thousands of years. It self-replicates through the fear or imagination of human beings who pass dogma to their offspring, mutates
Re: (Score:2)
There are plenty of fascist countries in the 19th and 20th century who managed to suppress the spread of ideas more disruptive than an internet meme and did so successfully for decades. This is an old problem, and once people start receiving corporal punishment or capital punishment for their various thought crimes the vast majority of people there will quit doing "memes".
When cat videos are criminalized... (Score:2)
...only criminals will have cat videos!
Re: (Score:1)
In Soviet Russia the cat has you!
Too easy.
Indonesia, what a LOLercoaster (Score:1)
embarrassment? (Score:2)
Too late, the Indonesia government is already an embarrassment. Anything they public automatically is criminal embarrassment.
The correct word is "meNe" (Score:1)
Buzzwords are not a substitute for an accurate sum (Score:1)
"Indonesia wants to criminalize political parody" would be better. I would have some insight about what the TFS is about.
Include the word "memes" too if you want, it's a real word with a real meaning, but it's just insufficient in this case.
I don't think we're talking about "I can haz cheeseburgers?â here.
Buzzwords no substitute for an accurate summary (Score:1)
Buzzwords no substitute for an accurate summary
This is verging on click bait.
"Indonesia wants to criminalize political parody" would be better. I would have some insight about what the TFS is about.
Include the word "memes" too if you want, it's a real word with a real meaning, but it's just insufficient in this case.
I don't think we're talking about "I can haz cheeseburgers?" here.
Re:Free speech (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm so tired of hearing this bone-headed phrase repeated by people who haven't taken two seconds to think it through. 100% freedom would mean allowing arson, rape, murder and a thousand other behaviors that we currently ban. You want to go back to prehistoric caveman days? Because that's the only time when that sort of freedom existed.
In order for society to work, you have to recognize the rights of other people and their rights limit your freedom to do whatever you want. We accept lots of limitations on our freedom with the understanding that the other people around us accept those same limitations. The end result is what we call civilization.
Re: Free speech (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
100% freedom would mean allowing arson, rape, murder and a thousand other behaviors that we currently ban.
Who said anything about wanting any of that stuff? Freedom of speech, however, should be unlimited and without exception.
Re: Free speech (Score:2)
You don't mind then if I put some speakers under your bed playing my trash metal band songs, blowing at 200â... volume? You won't do anything to limit this expression of my speech, right?
Re: Free speech (Score:2)
That should be 200%, dammit.
Re: (Score:3)
Freedom either is 100% or is not. Freedom at 99.99% is not freedom.
Not at all. You can be more or less free.
I detest all these idiotic absolutist concepts, that divide everything into absolute categories. By eliminating all gradiations, you end up lumping everything together. "In Connecticut you can get a ticket for littering if you drop a cigarette butt on the ground, therefore Connecticut is just as bad as Nazi Germany, they're both authoritarian states."
No. There are shades of difference.
Re:Free speech (Score:4, Funny)
I detest all these idiotic absolutist concepts
All of them?
Re: (Score:3)
I detest all these idiotic absolutist concepts
All of them?
Absolutely!
Re: Free speech (Score:2)