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United States Transportation

General Motors To Lay Off 2,000 Workers at Two US Plants (reuters.com) 320

General Motors plans to lay off 2,000 employees at two U.S. auto plants in early 2017, the automaker said on Wednesday. From a Reuters report:GM said it will furlough the employees when it cuts the third shift at its Lordstown, Ohio and Lansing, Michigan plants in mid-January. The Lordstown plant builds the compact Chevrolet Cruze, whose U.S. sales through October were down 20 percent. The Lansing Grand River plant builds the Cadillac ATS and CTS, whose sales were down 17 percent through October.An anonymous reader shares an excerpt from a Washington Examiner report, "Trump has already criticized General Motors for reports that it would shift some production to Mexico, a plan that the company hasn't confirmed and didn't allude to Wednesday. The incoming Republican president also has said that he would impose a 35 percent tariff on the products of former U.S. subsidiaries that moved out of the country. When Ford announced the opening of a new factory in Mexico earlier this year, Trump called it an "absolute disgrace" and pledged to tax its imports to the U.S."
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General Motors To Lay Off 2,000 Workers at Two US Plants

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  • President Trump will bring those 2,000 jobs back, and add 5,000 more. He promised. If he doesn't, he is a liar and a charlatan. Check back in 4 years to see how he did!
    • Re:Short Lived (Score:5, Insightful)

      by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @03:49PM (#53249833) Homepage Journal
      Hey, he's president, at worst, you should hope he can do something.

      Frankly, I have no problem with the US giving breaks and incentives to stay in the US, employ US citizens...and penalize those that leave and ship jobs overseas.

      • Think About It... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by sycodon ( 149926 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @04:33PM (#53250287)

        If you believe that companies should be able to move their production overseas, you are tacitly approving of working conditions( wages, safety, environmental, etc.) that, were they in effect here in the US, would have SJWs lighting themselves on fire in the public square in protest.

        If Mexico or any other nation imposes the same regulations as the US, then moving to another nation would be no different than moving to another state. Absent that, it provides an unfair advantage to outsourcing companies at the expense of the employees of the overseas plant.

        This is 100% against what most Democrats believe.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Funny thing, he doesn't believe in global warming but bringing manufacturing to the US with stricter environmental requirements would do more to help than the carbon tax sham.

        • by mark-t ( 151149 )

          Enlighten me as to what working conditions in Canada would you be referring to, exactly?

          Or did you somehow think that countries like Canada would be immune to this?

      • That something is likely to get him into trouble with the WTO. It may save some auto jobs in the short term, but US expert will be hit in the medium term as the WTO will authorize retaliatory tariffs to compensate foreign businesses.

        You can put anti-dumping tariffs in place, not protectionist ones.

        Of course, the US could quite the WTO, but that would have massive impact on US exporters.

        • That something is likely to get him into trouble with the WTO

          Chief of Staff: "Mr. President, we're seeing some pushback from the WTO in Geneva with regard to our recent establishment of protectionist trade tariffs. Do you have a response for the Secretary of State to convey?"

          President: "Sergeant, bring me that briefcase they were telling me about. The one with all the buttons and lights and handcuffs and whatnot."

          Marine guard: "I beg your pardon, sir?"

          President: "And where's Geneva, again? That's in Wisc

        • by mark-t ( 151149 )

          That something is likely to get him into trouble with the WTO

          I don't think he particularly cares what anyone else thinks.

          And besides, what can they do to him, exactly?

      • by MouseR ( 3264 )

        You do realize all his fncking swag like Make America Great Again caps were made in china, right?

    • "Wake Me Up When...", Freeze yourself until preset conditions are met!

      Also... kinda funny how Slashdot turns super liberal the minute Trump wins. Where did all those supporters go? Did their last check arrive or something?

    • Re:Short Lived (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @03:58PM (#53249935)

      He's wanting to put tariffs on imported goods. Car manufacturers rely on imported goods. Detroit is about to get a whole lot poorer. Even if more parts were made domestically, retaliatory tariffs will make American made cars unattractive overseas. America could potentially lose most or all of its car industry. I suspect the design of cars will still be done by well trained engineers in the US, but the whole product will be assembled elsewhere to avoid extra retaliatory tariffs in the rest of the world.

      (we did this whole tariff thing in the 1800's and early 1900's; abolishing it is what led to people getting wealthier)

      • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        I suspect the design of cars will still be done by well trained engineers in the US, but the whole product will be assembled elsewhere to avoid extra retaliatory tariffs in the rest of the world.

        At least for cars that are sold outside the United States. The most likely effect of protectionist policies is a bifurcation of manufacturing, where products for sale in the U.S. are made here and products for sale outside the U.S. are made elsewhere. The net effect on American jobs is likely to be a wash, but the

      • He's wanting to put tariffs on imported goods. Car manufacturers rely on imported goods. Detroit is about to get a whole lot poorer. Even if more parts were made domestically, retaliatory tariffs will make American made cars unattractive overseas.

        You mean car manufacturers will have incentive to make things locally?

        Heavens!

        What will the car manufactures do without overseas workers?

        I simply cannot imagine how this will be good for the country! Our GDP will drop at the expense of creating all those jobs!

      • Yeah, I imagine the threat of him bankrupting the country, like he has his own companies, and sending it into another recession, is more real than I'm comfortable with, but that's just one of a whole constellation of things he's likely to completely screw up.
    • Without significant alterations to various trade agreements, including the WTO agreements, how would Trump start nailing such companies with a 35% tariff. This would almost certainly need Senate approval, and it isn't terribly clear that the Senate would be all that interested in basically tearing up the US's international trade agreements just so he can punish Ford and GM.

      • Considering that both Senate and House are also Republican controlled, I'm holding out hope that their game-plan with regards to Trump is to keep him on a short leash so he doesn't completely ruin everything he touches, and that's why so many of them have been holding their noses and keeping their mouths shut this whole time. As we've seen, however, some of the more noteworthy Republicans just couldn't stand the stench long enough and finally just said how they really felt. I do not envy any Republican poli
        • I have a feeling that in some ways the Trump presidency will resemble the GWB and Reagan presidencies, in that it will be the VP, advisers and chief allies in Congress that do much of the actual leg work. I don't think Trump really has the intellectual or emotional capacity to be a president in anything but a nominal way. He'll come into the office much like Woodrow Wilson left it.

          • That's kind of what I'm getting at. You'll note the last two elections the GOP couldn't produce a candidate that was anywhere near popular enough for anyone to get behind, therefore we got Obama, so it makes sense to me that while they've all had to hold their noses and accept Trump, they'll do everything they can to control him, or at least keep him from shooting the entire country in the foot. Meanwhile they work for the next 4 years to come up with a real candidate. Unfortunately for them they'll have to
    • He promised. If he doesn't, he is a liar and a charlatan.

      This is microcosm of the disconnect in American politics.
      Trump's detractors take him literally, but not seriously.
      Trump's supporters take him seriously, but not literally.

      His supporters don't actually expect him to build a wall, or slap tariffs on Chinese imports.
      That is not why they voted for him.
      But they do expect him to address immigration and outsourcing as serious issues.
      THAT is why they voted for him.

      Disclaimer: I didn't vote for Trump, but I understand why other people did.

      • Trump's supporters take him seriously, but not literally.

        That's the very definition of "feels before reals".

        • That's the very definition of "feels before reals".

          Sure. But is it better to have a president that is a bald-faced liar, or one that tells more subtle lies that people believe?

          "Neither" isn't an option.

  • Jobs vs. Stuff (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @04:01PM (#53249963) Journal

    Protectionism has mostly "worked" in Japan, at least in terms of jobs. They have a low unemployment rate compared to other countries. But many products are indeed more expensive because of it. Whether jobs or "stuff" is more important is a subjective choice.

    • Ideally you do free trade and with the comparative advantages that entails, you tax the people who win due to fair trade and give that money to the people who lose.

      • by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        That's assuming the so-called losers want money instead of jobs.

        For males it's especially difficult: our career is our #1 defining quality to society for good or bad. For women the equivalent is looks. That may not be fair either, but it's less career pressure. If a lady has looks, she doesn't have to work so hard.

      • Nice theory, except the way you give money to the people who "lose" is through subsidies and industries that are subsidized don't require free trade to make money. So, your logic there is actually pretty contrarian.

        There's no way to balance letting jobs leave the country and keeping the country employed unless there are new types of jobs being built that the country is progressing towards and thus not needing the jobs that are leaving the country.

        Which brings us to the next farce; a college education
        • The US unemployment rate is hovering somewhere around 5%. Now we can quibble over what that means exactly, but in general, the US has not seen a drop in unemployment due to liberalized trade agreements.

          If you look at the auto industry in particular, it has been in trouble since the 1970s. The idea that NAFTA or any other trade agreement somehow created this crisis is absurd. Detroit has been in a decline for about 40 years. The Rust Belt is hardly the first industrial area in an industrialized country to go

    • The reason Japan's unemployment rate is so low is because it is a demographically shrinking nation. It is at a tipping point where even its drive towards automation cannot make up for the overall losses of workers due to an aging population.

      Describing Japan's policies as some sort of economic success is like describing the Black Death as a great boon for Medieval workers rights. While true on a superficial level, neither claim bears much scrutiny.

    • Cheaper products are little solace to those with no jobs and no money to buy any of them.

    • Protectionism works up to a point.. unemployment is low there, but the costs of living are quite high.. and salaries do not match.. + you have things that the US doesn't want to implement.. such as national healthcare.. And lets also remember, a lot of ideas don't scale very well when you just have more people (with more ideas, many of them wrong) and more land (so people on the fringe can either remain such or just become invisible because they are not in the nexus anymore) Japan is really one country.. (O

  • GM would be moving low-profit cars to Mexico, not Cadillacs.

    And Trump won't be saving these jobs. Car companies will not be keeping production in Michigan and Ohio, they'll move to Southern states where there is no UAW. Even if Trump keeps them from crossing the Southern border he isn't going to force them to stick with unions.

    • GM would be moving low-profit cars to Mexico, not Cadillacs.

      And Trump won't be saving these jobs. Car companies will not be keeping production in Michigan and Ohio, they'll move to Southern states where there is no UAW. Even if Trump keeps them from crossing the Southern border he isn't going to force them to stick with unions.

      No other course of action will succeed, and in this particular case it won't matter anyway.

      We understand. Your rationalization is pretty clear. We got it.

      • It's your own. It's not what I said at all.

        He won't be saving these jobs. He might save American jobs, he won't be saving these. I understand those in Michigan and Ohio who are upset about losing jobs, but voting for Trump isn't going to save them. Unless they want to move to South Carolina, they might be able to follow their jobs as they move there.

  • The Republican recession begins (again).
  • how trump is going to carry out all of his promises and really help the average blue collar American worker.
  • by krelvin ( 771644 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @04:12PM (#53250073)

    Other than it being announced after the Election, there doesn't seem to be anything political in the announcement.

    Sales are down on vehicles made at those two plant and they are cutting the Third Shift at both plants.
    Nothing about moving production elsewhere or even discontinuing the two other shifts at both plants.

    The added on Anonymously section to the /. article is where the politics are injected with a reference to Trump and his proposed tariffs on products made outside of the US by US mgs.. which this story is not about.

  • by ErichTheRed ( 39327 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @04:12PM (#53250075)

    Growing up in a Rust Belt city, I watched as most factory workers got thrown out of work when factories moved to the South, then offshore. The next 4 years may or may not be a very interesting economics experiment depending on how many policies Trump implements from his campaign promises. The loss of stable high-paying manufacturing jobs has a devastating effect on the locations they hollow out when those workers aren't paying taxes, buying things locally, etc.

    If he does succeed in building the wall, deporting immigrants and taxing foreign imports, how much of a tariff will be necessary to convince manufacturers to make goods for the US market in the US? I know India has a similar setup -- it's very expensive to import foreign goods to India, and manufacturers are responding by setting up plants in India. Unless there's absolutely no way around it, and the tariff is set at a punitive level, manufacturers are just going to say "tough" and raise the price of their goods to cover the cost.

    I know all the arguments are against me on this one, but I would definitely like to see all the manufacturing come back. People say we're one of the top countries in manufacturing output, but the reality is that this is due to high dollar items like airplanes and weapons systems. I'm an educated person, working in a non-factory job for a non-manufacturer, and I see the need for this. The country needs to be able to dump low-skilled people directly out of high school into a job that will pay enough to sustain them and their families over a lifetime. Don't concentrate so hard on educating everyone -- some people can't handle it and don't want to be...look at how many students are just barely graduating college and not actually absorbing anything. I graduated high school in 1993, and even by that time the only route to a stable life without a college degree was to get a union apprenticeship in a skilled trade. This is still viable, but only in union states and it certainly doesn't pay the same as it used to.

    College should be available to those who want it at a reasonable cost, but having it be the new minimum standard to be considered for any type of employment is crazy. Bring back old school factory work, and allow those who can't handle education to work in a steel mill, shipyard or car plant.

    • by _xeno_ ( 155264 )

      The country needs to be able to dump low-skilled people directly out of high school into a job that will pay enough to sustain them and their families over a lifetime. Don't concentrate so hard on educating everyone -- some people can't handle it and don't want to be...look at how many students are just barely graduating college and not actually absorbing anything.

      While you're absolutely right that there needs to be low-skill jobs that pay a good wage - manufacturing just isn't going to be it. We already have robots to make a lot of things. As long as the cost of building things with robots is less than the cost of building them with manual labor - and thanks to the relatively high labor costs in the US, they will be - those jobs are never coming back.

      Ever watch the show "How It's Made?" [sciencechannel.com] The answer is (almost) always robots. I remember one where they showed how moder

      • Exactly. What's happening now is a sort of Industrial Revolution Mark II, and in this iteration, it is automation that is playing the starring role. And if anyone feels grumpy about a dozen robots with one guy sitting at a console making sure the gears turn, jump ahead ten or fifteen years, when that level of automation means even cheap labor in China, India, Mexico and probably by that point Africa can't undercut the robots.

        The fact is that the world is going through a manufacturing revolution, and has bee

    • we need more trades schools and less college. ITT and others like it where good but they got stuck in the college traps as well high costs.

      Also Devry was better but they moved to more online and less hands on classes.

      Community college is hit or miss and some times the 4 year colleges make you repeat classes that you took already.

      4-6 Years of pure class room is way to much for most jobs and they have big skill gaps.

      It's not just low-skilled people there are also lines of work that college is a poor fit for.

      W

    • by quietwalker ( 969769 ) <pdughi@gmail.com> on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @04:51PM (#53250447)

      The thing is, manufacturing jobs won't come back, because they're gone. In the 70's and 80's, it took 200 people to do what 3 machines running 24/7 with almost no error do now. Even if you were to set up a new factory, you'd have like 40 jobs where you used to have 1000 - enough to actually support a reasonable town. So point 1,

      1. You aren't bringing the jobs back.

      Here's another amusing point: even if we do get jobs, the value of them will be based against the value of that job globally - so long as businesses and currency is still traded globally, so until we have really brought the quality of life and cost of living to some sort of equilibrium world wide, these jobs will never provide the value they used to. Back when we didn't have to compete with other countries for this work, it was viable. That's no longer the case and it won't ever be. We avoid manufacturing now because it's simply not the best return on investment for a business OR an employee. So point 2,

      2. Manufacturing work doesn't make enough money for the business or employee to incentivize companies or workers to do it in the US in past large numbers.

      Last, you mentioned vocational skills. Surprising many who haven't looked into it, we do have some vocational training and even government programs to make it cheap and relatively available. The problem? If you churn out 70-200, let's say, air conditioner repairman from the same school, in the same location, every 6 months, you're not going to have enough jobs available for them. The only way that would work is if you got trained and then were required to move at least 20 miles from any other graduate at any point in time. So point 3,

      3. Vocational training doesn't work at scale because it saturates the local markets past the point of available jobs

      The end tally is this: Neither manufacturing nor vocational jobs have the ability or potential to support a nationwide middle class, nor provide economic mobility to enter the middle class in numbers greater than what we have today, with all likelihood of them actually decreasing in the future.

      In layman's terms, manufacturing can't support a large middle class population.

      Even China, the manufacturing king of the world, is dealing with this issue right now. It's prompting their hurried transition to a more service-based economy.

      Advocating to bring back factory work, you may as well advocate to bring back rat catchers, switchboard operators and video rental stores for all the good it'll do the middle class. The reality is that we're moving towards a more maintainable, fully service-based economy and that necessitates higher levels of education to meet the ever rising bar for good paying skilled jobs if we want to maintain a large middle class. For good or for ill, the college degree is fast becoming the old highschool diploma as far as job hunting goes.

  • So, y'all realize the same people that that have controlled the house of representatives are still there right? The people elected the same bunch of Do-Nothings that have been in place for the last 12 years or so. They are anti-tax and free-trade. So unless they all of sudden have decided to become socialists these ideas of having massive taxed on companies that move production overseas is a no go. What Trump can do is Exit NAFTA. But doing that would all of a sudden make millions of materials produced in t

  • Let's not forget the house has been trying to move on removing all H1B caps for a while now. Trump has no love loss for college educated voters, but he does like white males. So that's going to be a toss up.

    • Trump is going to want to increase the H1-B cap so that his future wife can enter the country.
  • Why not blame, oh, I dunno, G.M.? Maybe their management had something to do with it. This quote from the summary might have something to do with it "Chevrolet Cruze, whose U.S. sales through October were down 20 percent". Why were their sales down? According to Hillary and Obama, the economies great so it could be that. And to say otherwise would be sexists.

  • by Streetlight ( 1102081 ) on Wednesday November 09, 2016 @06:31PM (#53251525) Journal
    In 1930, in order to raise revenue the Republican Congress passed the Smoot-Hawley increased import tariffs on 20,000 imports. Trading partners did the same for US imports and a trade war started. US imports decreased to about a third and exports decreased by about 61%. The US GDP was cut in half. Was this act the cause? Other things were going on, but the increase in tariffs is blamed by many economists as part of the cause of deepening the Great Depression. Since the end of WW II there has been a continuing process of reducing tariffs and though we've had ups and downs in economic progress the trend has generally been up.

    In this particular situation, if GM decides it can't make the Cruze economically in the US and the tariff would make it price uncompetitive then it could just stop making the car. Not only would no US workers make the car and dealers not have it to sell and make a profit, but there would be no Mexican workers making it either. This would be good news for foreign car makers producing similar sized cars made overseas. Another option is to build the car completely using robots. GM knows a lot about industrial robotic car assembly.

    Economics is complicated and dramatic, swift changes in policies can have many unintended consequences.

A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can take from you. -- Ramsey Clark

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