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Businesses The Almighty Buck

Amazon Makes Good On Its Promise To Delete 'Incentivized' Reviews (techcrunch.com) 106

Amazon is making good on its promise to ban "incentivized" reviews from its website, according to a new analysis of over 32,000 products and around 65 million reviews. From a TechCrunch article: The ban was meant to address the growing problem of less trustworthy reviews that had been plaguing the retailer's site, leading to products with higher ratings than they would otherwise deserve. Incentivized reviews are those where the vendor offers free or discounted products to reviewers, in exchange for recipients writing their "honest opinion" of the item in an Amazon review. However, data has shown that these reviewers tend to write more positive reviews overall, with products earning an average of 4.74 stars out of five, compared with an average rating of 4.36 for non-incentivized reviews. Over time, these reviews proliferated on Amazon, and damaged consumers' trust in the review system as a whole. And that can impact consumers' purchase decisions.
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Amazon Makes Good On Its Promise To Delete 'Incentivized' Reviews

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  • Why does Slashdot allow "special" characters in submitted stories when they don't display correctly in the summaries?

    • by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Thursday November 24, 2016 @12:40PM (#53355179) Journal

      Because, presumably, they expect everyone to preview their submission before hitting submit, and verify that what they are writing doesnâ(TM)t contain any such characters.

      There are only a few grievances I have with this site, and its lack of friendliness to utf8 is one of them.

      • There are only a few grievances I have with this site, and its lack of friendliness to utf8 is one of them.

        If I just slap together a webpage, UTF-8 will "just work" by default. So Slashdot must be going through some extra effort to make sure it does NOT work. Is there a reason for this? Maybe the backend database is MySQL 1.0 from 1995.

        • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

          If I just slap together a webpage, UTF-8 will "just work" by default. So Slashdot must be going through some extra effort to make sure it does NOT work. Is there a reason for this? Maybe the backend database is MySQL 1.0 from 1995.

          It's because there's a UTF-8 whitelist. Unicode support was added when the Japanese site was launched, but what happened is commenters rapidly posted garbage that abused all the Unicode control codes and character decorations that seriously screwed up the page. If you want to see

          • So they left off the ones that donâ(TM)t come up so often? They didnâ(TM)t do a particularly good job, did they?

          • by mark-t ( 151149 )
            If slashdot is going to whitelist, then the editor should reasonably refuse to allow any posts that contain utf8 characters that are not in the whitelist... and instead of posting a comment contaiining junk characters that won't display properly, the submitter or commenter would be directed to another editing page where they would be told that there were illegal characters contained in the post, and would be allowed to continue to edit their post just as if they had hit preview instead of submit.
            • by NaCh0 ( 6124 )

              Or you could type in normal fucking english and not have a problem.

              • by mark-t ( 151149 )
                Who said anything about other languages? What about Unicode punctuation that is entirely valid in any English text?
        • UTF-8 support was one of the first things SoylentNews fixed. So there's little excuse for it anymore.

          I imagine the root cause is due to so much of the backend running through deprecated Perl code that is barely \\A\\N\\S\\I aware.
      • It's kind of funny how it comes out as out as a-hat. Because that's exactly what manishs is.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    In the mean time I will continue to thumbs down any incentivized review I see - they are such trash.

  • by dgatwood ( 11270 ) on Thursday November 24, 2016 @12:42PM (#53355189) Homepage Journal

    IMO, this is a bad policy, plain and simple.

    The reality of the matter is that incentivized reviews aren't really a problem, and actually prevent much worse problems. Incentivized reviews (where people get, for example, a free product in exchange for a review) serve a crucial purpose in the industry—allowing products from new publishers, new manufacturers, etc. to get reviewed by someone competent early on so that people will actually consider that product. (Most people won't seriously look at a product that has no reviews.) By banning them, Amazon is basically saying that new publishers, new authors, new manufacturers, etc. need not bother to sell there.

    Worse, a ban on incentivized reviews significantly increases the pressure on small businesses to use truly unethical means of getting reviews, such as hiring companies that pay people to buy the product and write fake reviews. Lots of seriously bad products invariably have dozens of obviously fake five-star reviews, and that abuse of the system makes it even harder for legitimate businesses to get their foot in the door.

    The only way this decision doesn't represent an absolute abandonment of Amazon's duty to protect consumers from outright fraud is if they also make participation in the Vine program free and available to anyone who asks, whether they are Amazon vendors or not. Otherwise, this ban just encourages outright fraud by eliminating the one legitimate means that most small businesses have for getting reviews.

    And the policy isn't just anti-small-business. It's also anti-consumer. The notion that the difference between 4.74 stars and 4.36 is meaningful is laughable. Star ratings are completely meaningless in aggregate (at least without a standard deviation), because a product could have three five-star ratings that says "This product is great" and a one-star rating that says "This product burned down my house", and in aggregate, that product would have a 4.5-star rating. Everybody who actually buys products understands the fallacy of comparing star ratings, and instead reads the highest-rated high, low, and average reviews to see what they actually say about the product.

    Moreover, anybody serious about buying the right product also does keyword searches looking for aspects of the product that interest or concern them. For this reason, consumers are served best by having as many reviews as possible, paid or otherwise, because (with the exception of very bad products) each review is likely to provide information about some aspect of the product that no other review provides. So deleting incentivized reviews is not just anti-small-business. It's also anti-consumer, because it reduces the amount of information available to consumers about products that they are considering buying.

    I'm absolutely blown away at the absolute cluelessness of this decision. It is as though their management never actually bought a product on their own website, never sold any product anywhere, and couldn't be bothered to ask consumers or sellers what they thought. The resulting decision is utterly naïve.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      You give away copies of your books in exchange for reviews, don't you? Either that or you write incentivised reviews yourself, because I can tell this is personal for you.

      Just like many areas of online life, for me this issue is about signal-to-noise ratio. In a fantasy world, just one honest and thorough review would be all you'd need to make a decision, that would be a perfect SNR. In reality, you have to deal with fake reviews, incentivised or otherwise biased reviews, reviews from clueless reviewers, an

      • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        You give away copies of your books in exchange for reviews, don't you?

        Actually, I haven't gotten around to it yet. :-) I'd like to be able to do so, as giving away books is pretty much the only way for new authors to get reviews, period. And literally every non-bestselling author eventually resorts to it; whether in the form of Goodreads giveaways, making the Kindle edition free for a day/week/month, or whatever, the net effect is the same—you're giving away copies of your book in the hopes that som

    • It is like the proposed ban on lobbying at the federal level. If you regulate it, then there is some control and transparency. If you ban it, then it goes underground.

      The problem with these reviews is that they get elevated to the to-, presumable because sellers then have everybody click to find it useful. If amazon would mark these reviews, the relegate them to a lower position, they would serve a purpose without being overwhelming.

      • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        I know this is off-topic, but the solution for lobbying is not to ban lobbying, but rather to ban our congresspeople from Washington D.C. I've said it before, and it is no less true now than when I first said it.

        If all of our congresspeople were required to spend at least 330 days per year in their districts, participate in floor debates via videoconferencing, and vote remotely from their office in whatever district they serve, it would effectively be equivalent to a successful ban on lobbying. Big compa

    • I'm absolutely blown away at the absolute cluelessness of this decision. It is as though their management never actually bought a product on their own website, never sold any product anywhere, and couldn't be bothered to ask consumers or sellers what they thought. The resulting decision is utterly naÃve.

      As someone who absolutely refuses to trust any "I received this product at a discount" reviews, my wish would be this: leave the incentivized reviews alone, but provide me with a filter that I can clic

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Read the reviews, and look for those who had a need/background/set of tastes similar to yours.

  • by ZorinLynx ( 31751 ) on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:14PM (#53355333) Homepage

    Amazon could solve this issue by only allowing reviews from people who have actually purchased the product on Amazon.

    Sure, this would remove the ability to review products that you bought elsewhere, but I'm sure that's not a large percentage of reviews. If you bought the product from Amazon there's a good chance you're not a shill for the company. This also limits the reviews to one per customer per purchased product.

    The only downside to this is we'll lose the hilarious "reviews" that some products get.. but that's a small price to pay for more legitimate reviews from real customers.

    • by hawguy ( 1600213 )

      Amazon could solve this issue by only allowing reviews from people who have actually purchased the product on Amazon.

      Sure, this would remove the ability to review products that you bought elsewhere, but I'm sure that's not a large percentage of reviews.

      They could easily have it both ways - provide a checkbox to show only show reviews (and calculate the average score) for verified purchases.

      Though this wouldn't get rid of the problem entirely -- companies that are willing to give away product in exchange reviews will just reimburse reviewers for the purchase price of the product, so they'll come up in the "Verified purchase" section.

    • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:36PM (#53355469)

      Amazon could solve this issue by only allowing reviews from people who have actually purchased the product on Amazon.

      Nope. My daughter writes fake reviews, and she typically charges $20+"price of product" if they want a "verified" review. For more expensive items, she will sometimes charge the difference between what the product costs on Amazon, and what she can resell the NIB product for on eBay or Craigslist, and then she has Amazon drop-ship directly to the secondary customer.

      Requiring all reviewers to be verified buyers may help somewhat, but it would be only a partial fix by raising the cost of the fake reviews.

      • Amazon could solve this issue by only allowing reviews from people who have actually purchased the product on Amazon.

        Nope. My daughter writes fake reviews, and she typically charges $20+"price of product" if they want a "verified" review. For more expensive items, she will sometimes charge the difference between what the product costs on Amazon, and what she can resell the NIB product for on eBay or Craigslist, and then she has Amazon drop-ship directly to the secondary customer.

        Requiring all reviewers to be verified buyers may help somewhat, but it would be only a partial fix by raising the cost of the fake reviews.

        You are correct that Amazon can never fix fake reviews; he best they can do is attempt to minimize their impact. For example, they could only attach verified purchaser status if the review was written at some point in time after recipes, and not do that for any not shipped to the purchasers billing address or one used frequently. They could also look at purchase patterns to see if they are unusual for a particular demographic, but that is less likely to indicate fake reviews. Still, there are ways around an

    • by stevel ( 64802 ) *

      Amazon does now limit reviews of non-verified purchases to 5/week. (Books, videos, CDs and Vine excepted.)

    • The additional marketing expense of buying a product is generally inconsequential to other marketing costs, thus the verified purchase tags essentially mean nothing.
    • I'd have thought so too. But apparently, some fake reviewers buy the products, then return them to the sellers for a refund, plus the fee for the glowing review. It certainly adds a significant shipping cost to the price of each fake review, which is a good thing I guess, but it doesn't completely stop them.

    • by antdude ( 79039 )

      Also, how long they had them too.

    • by Ecuador ( 740021 )

      No, this won't work. Sellers have groups (on FB or dedicated sites) where they organize people to buy their product for free or almost free (they provide a discount code) in exchange for a review. They don't usually tell you directly to give them a 4/5 star review (although I've seen that too), but tell you to contact them first if you are not happy and if you leave a 3 star or less review they simply don't give you any more free stuff... or worse!

      When I say worse, this is an example recent experience of mi

  • by Anonymous Coward

    You have to read reviews with a lot of perception in mind. I find the bulk of honest (believable) reviews are negative reviews and I usually look through the negative ones to get a sense of whether there truly are deal-breaking issues. It's easy to tell the difference between bullshit negative reviews and real legit negative reviews, but not so easy to tell them apart with the positive ones.

    Sort with negative reviews first. That will tell you the real story.

  • by WaffleMonster ( 969671 ) on Thursday November 24, 2016 @02:23PM (#53355731)

    I know people personally who have engaged in industrial scale review Shenanigans on Amazon for profit and can only imagine the cesspool of asshats involved. Screwing with Amazon has become an industry on to itself.

    No point in using Amazon IMO. They spend too much time making excuses for their sellers. Seller reviews and good/bad ratio's are NOT front and center like they are on eBay. You have to go digging.

    From my experience many sellers on Amazon have ratio's that would get them laughed at by any eBay buyer. (Low 90's or even 80's)

    Then we have issues of Amazon actively leveraging their market position. Refusing to sell certain goods unless you join their little "Prime" club. Refusing to sell low cost items without buying something else. Playing games with intentional shipping delays while not offering much of anything in the way of savings.

    Amazon refuses to keep their marketing goons on a leash and their community governance is teetering on the brink of Twitter level fail.

  • by DeanOh ( 61485 ) on Friday November 25, 2016 @05:10AM (#53358643)

    Here's your bottom line up front: Amazon doesn't care about the quality of reviews. Period. Amazon cares about control of the process.

    Here's how I know this:

    I have been an amazon Vine member since 2009. At the time I was invited to start receiving "free" (no longer are they free: for the last two years, every item is assigned a "fair market value" (FMV) for tax purposes that results in an an annual 1099 for the IRS; generally the FMV is about 1/3 of the sticker price) items, I had written less than 20 reviews of things bought from amazon since 1997.

    From 2012 until early last month, I also accepted and reviewed items provided directly to me through amazon vendors. Some where shipped directly to me, and some where provided through amazon via a vendor-supplied claim code that would result in an "amazon verified purchase badge. At the "high water mark" of my reviewing activity, I was ranked in the low two digits of amazon's "Top Reviewer Ranking" list.

    The above represents three categories of reviews:
    (1) Amazon supplied through Vine (which carries a giant green "Vine Customer Review of Free Product" banner)
    (2) Vendor-supplied direct (and therefore, no "verified purchase" label)
    (3) Vendor-supplied via claim code (and therefore labeled as "verified purchase"
    (4) Things I bought from amazon with my own money (the "true" amazon verified purchases)
    (5) Things I bought someplace else and reviewed on amazon.

    For (1): Amazon generates the disclaimer.
    For (2) and (3): I provided the disclaimer at the end of the review. I didn't make a rhetorical attempt to convince you that I had provided an "honest evaluation...blah blah blah.." .I simply stated that fact of receiving the item for reviewing, in order to comply with both Amazon and an FTC requirement.

    I had no incentive to inflate the ratings on any of these products categories.

    The stream of Vine items was not dependent on me offering a high rating, and I have 1-starred many big ticket items. Since 2009, the Vine program has sent me over 300 items..from Post-It notes and advance reviewer copies of books to high-end A/V equipment carrying 4-figure price tags; overall average value is about $65 for ALL products...but there is nearly a $1600 range between the most and least expensive items). I'll tell you more about why the scoring or strength of content was irrelevant to amazon in a second.

    For vendor-provided items, the majority of these were Chinese-manufactured smalls (Bluetooth speakers, LED flashlights, Lightning cables, USB cables, kitchen items, RC vehicles, dashcams, GoPro knockoffs... although a few others popped into the "shiny" zone, and came from brand names you would recognize immediately), but I also had no incentive to inflate the scoring of these products either. Typically, the vendors had not read any of my reviews, they simply had my email address (and there is clearly an active network of vendors exchanging big lists of such email addresses). Before accepting an item I told each vendor that I would be disclosing the receipt of the item, and that the rating and review would be based directly on my user experience. The email associated with my amazon account received an average of about 35 such offers every day. Since amazon ended "incentived" reviews. I still get 15-20 offers daily, even though they are deleted without reading.

    And for stuff I bought myself (on Amazon or elsewhere: just as with Vine and vendor-provided products: I reported my user experience. My overall average product rating was slightly above 4 for over 1600 reviews written since 2009..

    In order, here's what amazon has done since October:
    -Told ALL reviewers that they could no longer review items received for free from vendors.
    -Deleted the entire contents of reviewers that amazon's magical systems decided were engaging in manipulative behavior. Sometimes this removed the reviews of obvious shill or dishonest reviewers...and sometimes this threw out the baby with the bathwater as honest

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