Windows 10 Upgrade Bug Disabled Cntrl-C In Bash (infoworld.com) 277
An anonymous reader quotes InfoWorld:
A massive set of changes to the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) was rolled into Windows Insider build 15002... If this is any hint, Microsoft's goal is nothing short of making it a credible alternative to other Linux distributions... Some of the fixes also implement functionality that wasn't available before to Linux apps in WSL, such as support for kernel memory overcommit and previously omitted network stack options. Other changes enhance integration between WSL and the rest of Windows...
[O]ne major issue in build 15002 is that Ctrl-C in a Bash session no longer works. Microsoft provided an uncommon level of detail for how this bug crept in, saying it had to do with synchronization between the Windows and Bash development teams. The next Insider build should have a fix. But for people doing serious work with Linux command-line apps, not having Ctrl-C is a little like driving a car when only the front brakes work.
[O]ne major issue in build 15002 is that Ctrl-C in a Bash session no longer works. Microsoft provided an uncommon level of detail for how this bug crept in, saying it had to do with synchronization between the Windows and Bash development teams. The next Insider build should have a fix. But for people doing serious work with Linux command-line apps, not having Ctrl-C is a little like driving a car when only the front brakes work.
Ha-Ha! (Score:5, Insightful)
But for people doing serious work with Linux command-line apps
...we use a Linux operating system.
Re:Ha-Ha! (Score:5, Funny)
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Programs trapping Ctrl-C as an exception are exceptionally lazy - there should be a more "front end" way to quit. Originally Ctrl-C was just to kill, not to gracefully shut-down.
I take exception to the summary's bad automotive analogy. I'd say that removing Ctrl-C functionality is like removing the standard brake pedal, leaving the driver to read the manual to discover where alternate brake controls might be found - naturally different locations in different programs.
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Control-C is the usual way of stopping a Linux command line program. Users expect it to leave the system in a reasonable state and programs to clean up after themselves.
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Thanks for the only non-AC criticism here...
Ctrl-C goes back beyond Linux and SIGINT - it has been a system level "stop now" key combo since the 1980s, maybe even longer - and not just on *nix systems, it even applied to BASIC and other languages on the 6502 and 8088 based home PCs.
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That goes all the way back to the telegraph where you could interrupt the sender by opening the circuit.
RS-232 maintains it in the form of the break signal which just pulls the line low for not less than one symbol's time (ass opposed to ctrl-c that just transmits character value 3).
Cut the wire is as good as any I suppose.
Re:Ha-Ha! (Score:5, Informative)
Programs trapping Ctrl-C as an exception are exceptionally lazy - there should be a more "front end" way to quit. Originally Ctrl-C was just to kill, not to gracefully shut-down.
In a purely TTY environment there's usually only CTRL-C and CTRL-\ to generate signals (SIGINT and SIGQUIT) that processes can catch. (CTRL-Z generates SIGSTOP which can't be caught.) What's so lazy about using one of those? Of the two, CTRL-C is clearly the most appropriate if supported by the environment. What do you mean by "front end" here? If you mean some non-TTY-based mechanism then, sorry, that's not always an option.
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Re:Ha-Ha! (Score:5, Interesting)
You know, some of us use windows since it's quite client facing. This might blow your mind. Anything either side can do to bridge the gap of best of both worlds is a good thing.
Re:Ha-Ha! (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, some of us use windows since it's quite client facing. This might blow your mind. Anything either side can do to bridge the gap of best of both worlds is a good thing.
You somehow missed 30 years of embrace, extend, and extinguish.
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You may have missed that MS is no longer run by an evil genius but rather someone who tries to build just enough value to run companies into the ground.
I don't believe the current management collectively have the braincells to implement EEE. Hell Balmer failed that too and he was significantly more strategic than the current degenerates.
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Windows excels in building user facing apps with good UI and good experiences
An odd quote about an OS that manages to get the buttons in the wrong order for basically every dialog box. Quick quiz: In your web browser's tool bar, does the left or right arrow mean forwards? In any random Windows dialog box, is the left or right button the proceed forwards one?
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The only good thing is, good or bad, you know what GUI is available in ALL windows machines and you can develop applications. Linux suffers in that respect. Qt? or Tkl or gnome or what? . Quite sad, given X11 actually was w
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If Microsoft wanted to do something actually useful in that regard the, instead of WSL, we'd see them contributing major patches to WINE.
Once, we used Windows for Linux stuff (Score:2)
In 20 years, I've had exactly one occasion to run Linux stuff on Windows. I've had one other program I ran on Windows, that I can recall.
We have a framework on Linux, written mostly in Perl, which runs hundreds of small tools. We wanted to add a specific Windows-only tool to our system. So the g framework is installed under Cygwin on a few machines to run that one Windows tool.
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We have a framework on Linux, written mostly in Perl, which runs hundreds of small tools. We wanted to add a specific Windows-only tool to our system. So the g framework is installed under Cygwin on a few machines to run that one Windows tool.
Why did you choose Cygwin instead of e.g. ActivePerl?
Ctrl (Score:3)
Who spells it with an N?
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Peple wh really hate the letter h.
Re:Ctrl (Score:4, Funny)
And you hate the letter "o" I assume?
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Just google it to get an idea...
hint:
Showing results for ctrl-C
Search instead for cntrl-C
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Who spells "control" without vowels?
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A lot of people spell it without vowels, unless ^ counts as a vowel for you.
Re:Ctrl (Score:4, Funny)
The windows side team, the linux side spells it Ctrl-C, thus their .net json bridge had a disconnect issue.
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Which, for the record, is the way it's spelled on keyboards... makes sense when spelling out a keyboard-command to use the same labels as is commonly found on said keyboards.
Nobody writes "Press Alternate and F1" we say "Alt-F1" because the keys are labelled "Alt".
Re:Ctrl (Score:5, Funny)
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People who decided to use \ as path separator?
Oh no, you really stirred the hornet's nest with that one!
It's full on character war now!
Not an alternative to Linux, an alternative to OSX (Score:5, Interesting)
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Bingo. We have a winner.
Microsoft is pushing hard for Windows lap-tops to no longer be shitty (eg: trackpad), and they're pushing Linux on Windows (until these updates are released its not really useful: it's missing important stuff such as file watching, etc).
Once this is all in, it's going to be in pretty good shape. Just missing a few things like an Alfred alternative that doesn't suck, but that's not as important.
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Pretty good shape for what? I can download Ubuntu and throw it on a box for, well, the cost of the machine (and I've got several lying around). If I want to move data around I've got everything from Samba to ssh copying, and even NFS. What is it exactly that running Ubuntu under Windows grants me? As it stands, at the moment, I'd be pretty buggered with this update. Microsoft's QA on their own products has gone down the crapper, why would I want the same level of incompetence responsible for my BASH session
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Or I can just open multiple SSH sessions and not have to rely on Microsoft at all. I'm sorry, it's clear they have a substandard product, and if you're using this Ubuntu-on-Windows, by this bug alone, you're using an inferior technology. I have no idea what your complaints about drivers are about, since I haven't any of the issues you claim. My guess is you're just another MS shill, but now that the official message is "Ubuntu is good so long is it is running under Windows", your messaging has to adjust.
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Is an insider release not the equivalent of an alpha or beta release?
I've used plenty of Linux alpha and beta distros with some pretty big bugs.
Re:Not an alternative to Linux, an alternative to (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft has been working quite hard to make windows a good development platform for linux. Between WSL and the changes to Visual Studio it has gotten pretty easy to do writing, compiling and debugging of linux software from windows.
For me this is really important since linux has never run well on this laptop. I have optimus which means I have a dedicated gpu + integrated gpu and with windows it seamlessly switches between them and everything works. Under linux there are commands to make one or the other run but it is not remotely seamless and it is really buggy. I have also run into problems with ubuntu and fedora where an update will sometimes break x entirely where the default output gets set to the device that is not activated and then having to deal with debugging that.
I also write C++ simulation software and I have found no better IDE that VisualStudio so far. With eclipse under linux once I upgraded to an SSD I sometimes had issues to compile multiple times to compile without errors about files not being found. If I compiled from the command line that never happened. Debugging is MUCH worse in eclipse vs visual studio. The worse thing though is profiling. I have no idea what happened to it on linux since I have done linux development for almost 20 years now and we used to have some of the best profilers out there but no it seems most of them just do a horrible job. Trying to profile a program that uses shared libraries in linux mostly ends up with no, poor or inconsistent results even when the program behavior is highly consistent. I ended up trying the proprietary vtune from intel and that worked great on linux and windows.
In the end it is easier to do development on windows where all the desktop type stuff works and get the software running completely correctly and debugged and then deploy it to linux servers, clusters, supercomputers etc for actual running. At this point I pretty much use windows for desktop work and linux for all the server work and the WSL system has made life much simpler.
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Microsoft wants those developers using Windows PCs. Putting WSL/Bash on Windows so that it's a credible alternative to the 'nix tools available on OSX gives those developers one less reason to avoid using a Windows based OS.
Except it isn't a credible alternative, because microsoft does stuff like breaking break. Why would you use that garbage over cygwin if what you're trying to get is development tools?
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Breaking break is a known bug in a beta release. It's not in any production release.
Lots of things don't run on Cygwin that do run on Ubuntu/WSL. And Ubuntu/WSL is more like Ubuntu than Cygwin is.
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First, startups are a thing of the past. Funding has dried up and acquisitions are no longer a thing. I wouldn't be surprised to see Macbooks sinking further with them, like a bad memento of a mad era.
Second, as much as I respect Microsoft for their magnificent business skills, working with Azure on a daily basis is truly horrible. The whole portal reminds me of a demented SharePoint, it feels like something that has been designed by many teams that hate each other, and the price premium over AWS just doesn
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In other words, those who work in a business end up behaving like the business they are in. For years we've been told that capitalism creates improvement through competition and rewards those who win the competition. Are you, then, surprized that this is not only true of businesses relative to each other but of individuals within a business towards one another ?
Getting promoted means being perceived as better than the next guy - this doesn't *just* reward working to the best of your ability, it also greatly
Re:Not an alternative to Linux, an alternative to (Score:5, Informative)
I know for myself, and many others at the companies I have worked for -- THere are a signifcant number of people who use Macbooks, but run Windows on them. As I type here, It's a macbook Pro Running Windows 10.
The hardware runs Windows significantly better than any natively developed Windows notebook. Probably becasue drivers can be written to only a single known configuration and that can be optimized.
WHen running multiple VMs, and IDEs on Windows on Macbook Pro hardware -- it simply outclasses the same setup on alternatives.
But either way, at our office, more than half (500+ users) all run Windows as their primary OS on the Macbooks. Most workers don't know that they can even boot into Mac OSX (minimally sized partition, as even the Engineers don't even boot into OSX)
Once I installed Windows 7 on a Macbook Pro -- I never went back to Windows-first hardware.
1. Buy MacBook
2. Install Windows.
3. Have a kick ass windows box for development and gaming.-
Re:Not an alternative to Linux, an alternative to (Score:5, Insightful)
WHen running multiple VMs, and IDEs on Windows on Macbook Pro hardware -- it simply outclasses the same setup on alternatives.
[citation needed]
Apples are made out of the same chipsets as everyone else's PCs. There's no reason why they would be better at anything, especially since they are usually made with last year's hardware.
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like driving a car when only the front brakes work (Score:3)
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I also had a broken Windows 95 beta that required me to manually kill msgsrv32.exe as I logged-in otherwise the whole box would be inoperable in a few seconds.
Neither experience was especially pleasurable or calming.
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I disabled the rear brake on my race bike. As did many other racers. Sure, the needs of street vehicles is different, but in most circumstances, front brakes only is adequate.
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Actually, if you were forced to pick... you're better off if your front brakes are functional. Remember, rolling friction is greater than sliding friction.
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Can you hear the drums Fernando?
Breaking News - beta software has bugs (Score:5, Insightful)
It isn't an "upgrade bug" as the upgrade isn't slated for release for months.The build in question has only been released to the fast ring for Insider testing. In other words, it's only been given to those on the extreme bleeding edgeof Windows testing.Is Slashdot going to start posting articles for every minor issue in Chrome canary releases also?
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Subject to the whims and bugs of Microsoft.... (Score:4, Insightful)
.
Yeah, that sounds like a success story.
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No more Linux Clients (Score:2)
So MS wants no more Linux clients for administration, so Linux becomes solely a server/CLI environment, and to allow Linux tools to easily leverage Windows components and possibly come to depend on them?
Sure shortsightedly it is more options to help people get work done, but I'm talking about long term here.
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In the long term Microsoft is fearful that the whole computing world is shifting beneath their feet, and they need to try to stay relevant. I'm sure there some of the old the old Triple-E evilness here, but in reality they're watching the PC fading as a platform (no, it won't die quickly, but it is doomed), so trying to get more developers to use their platform, even if it means they're running a fucking BASH shell and developing with vi is better than them not using a Microsoft product at all.
For myself, I
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It's a value-add for those 'forced' to use Windows. Your options otherwise are maintain a Linux box (in a VM, dual booting or a dedicated machine) use ported applications which mightn't receive the love their Linux-native cousins do or use cygwin.
What Windows lacks is a decent package manager (and I've tried Chocolatey). So the alternative is that every major vendor, from Google to Mozilla to Adobe runs there own crapware background updater service. Synaptic and apt-get would be a huge improvement, so if th
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Likewise, I run a Linux/Windows test system. It has a unified filesystem, under which files can be accessed transparently of the actual box on which they reside.
The Windows boxes run BASH and Perl scripts, but under Cygwin. As far as I can tell, this Ubuntu on Windows is completely useless for me because (unlike Cygwin) the environment does not have access to the full filesystem of th
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As far as I can tell, this Ubuntu on Windows is completely useless for me because (unlike Cygwin) the environment does not have access to the full filesystem of the Windows boxes.
It does although there are some gotchas with regards to permissions (same with cygwin). And the next version will let wsl interact with windows binaries.
Re:No more Linux Clients (Score:5, Funny)
For myself, I can't see any reason to use this Ubuntu-on-Windows.
It's for those who want the beginner friendliness of command-line Unix with the stability and security of Windows.
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MS is worried about staying relevant to IT geeks and Android developers. I welcome the changes if MS can get this shit together as competition ends monopolistic companies according to economics 101. If you do not want to use WIndows then don't.
VS 2015 includings Android emulators and SDK's that use IOS, Windows Phone, and Android for mobile developers. I like this as I do not want to buy a mac just to port an application to IOS.
So, they do not even get signal handling right (Score:2, Interesting)
How are these people thinking they are qualified to write an OS-like subsystem, let alone a full OS?
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Keep in mind this is in a Windows 10 beta relase which is based on a very new version of Ubuntu. THe stable one uses Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.
I am not defending MS as I had to downgrade to WIndows 8.1 as my main OS due to bugs. In my opinion if you need to use both us a VM. This is 2017 and most any newish PC in the last couple of years can run each others OS as a VM for any IT professional.
Re:So, they do not even get signal handling right (Score:4, Insightful)
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I had to downgrade to WIndows 8.1 as my main OS
This is actually a true upgrade.
Dear Microsoft (Score:4, Interesting)
will remap the interrupt key to any thing you want. Try using DEL, as it was mapped on some Unix systems. It was only changed to ctrl-C to make it easier for DOS users moving to Linux.
It's the console stupid! (Score:5, Interesting)
WSL is better than cygwin. It is a lot faster and it has apt-get instead of that dreadful install wizard that cygwin has.
However, the console in windows is stuck in the 80's. It is the same DOS command prompt that we saw in windows 3.1. The terminal emulators in linux or macOS support multiple tabs, text selection that reaches the end of the line instead of a rectangular shape, split panes, your default directory is your home directory.
Now someone will raise their hand and say "PowerShell ISE". It looks promising, but at this point it is unusable because console programs cannot read input in PowerShell ISE
Until they have a console from this century, WSL is worth using only when you don't have linux or macOS available.
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If you install an x server - there are quite a few of them - then you can run pretty much any Linux-based terminal. It works fine - it was the first thing I tried.
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Install an X server and run your konsole of choice.
You'd still need an xserver for raw clients like rxvt. But my idea would be that they can work on integration with the popular cross-platform toolkits such as Qt/GTK+ etc so that a dynamically linked Linux GUI binary would render using Win32 native widgets, without need for an X11/Wayland server. (A .so acting as a shim for a windows .dll)
ctrl-z (Score:2)
What, doesn't ctrl-z; kill %1 work? What's the point?
Embrace! (Score:2)
It's been a while since I've been able to break out the old motto.
Next step: Extend!
bad example (Score:2)
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Re: In other news (Score:3, Insightful)
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Just open the the file read-only, then read-write, then read-only, etc. There you go!
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Microsoft will be porting emacs hotkeys to MS Word
Maybe that will help all those poor emacs virgins.
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you will take vi from my cold dead hands
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Are you sure it wasn't already taken from you?
I haven't seen vi around since quite a while.
slack: /usr/bin/vi /usr/bin/vi /usr/bin/vi -> elvis /usr/bin/elvis /usr/bin/elvis
$ which vi
$ ls -al
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 Aug 21 16:50
$ ls -al
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 522496 Sep 23 2008
deb: /usr/bin/vi /usr/bin/vi -> /etc/alternatives/vi /etc/alternatives/vi /etc/alternatives/vi /etc/alternatives/vi /etc/alternatives
# ls -al
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Oct 30 18:32
# ls
# ls -al
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 Oct 30 19:37
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Once in a while I stumble upon a "real" vi on a unix machine somewhere and it's not fun.
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Gentoo here: /usr/bin/vi -> //usr/bin/nvi
% ls -l `which vi`
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 Oct 10 2009
nvi is as close as you're going to get these days.
At least it does blocking file locking by default like vi, which helps with things like editing files that can also be edited through other means. There's little need for special "visudo" or "vipasswd" commands. And u u undoes the undo, while . repeats all commands, including undo. I hate how vim gives u a status of not really a command.
And, of course, it i
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nvi is as close as you're going to get these days.
No, it is not. [sourceforge.net]
And, of course, it is lean, so suitable for embedded:
My god, that's more than four times bigger than ex-vi.
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xBSD: /usr/bin/vi
$ ls -l $(which vi)
-r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 501380 Jan 2 01:55
yBSD: /usr/bin/vi
$ ls -l $(which vi)
-r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 501380 Jan 2 01:55
zBSD: /usr/bin/vi
$ ls -l $(which vi)
-r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 501380 Jan 2 01:55
Apple Windows: /usr/bin/vi
$ ls -l $(which vi)
-r-xr-xr-x 3 root wheel 501380 Jan 2 01:55
Re:so they give up (Score:5, Insightful)
As their revenue dwindles let this be a lesson.
Microsoft revenue has grown in a more or less linear fashion since the 90s. Doesn't stop idiots from announcing their imminent doom for over 25 years.
Amazing since market share dropped from 98% to 38% (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is amazing considering that a few years ago, 98% of people used their flagship product, Windows, while now only 38% of people do (Netcraft, 2016). They've done a really good job pivoting to maintain revenue while customers have dumped their traditional products en masse.
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Which is amazing considering that a few years ago, 98% of people used their flagship product, Windows, while now only 38% of people do (Netcraft, 2016). They've done a really good job pivoting to maintain revenue while customers have dumped their traditional products en masse.
What kind of numbers are those? Please provide a link.
As far as I know, Netcraft only monitors web servers and there's just no way IIS ever had a 98% market share. Even with Azure going full blast it would never go anywhere near that, especially since a lot of Azure customers run Linux.
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I think it's a joke, "Netcraft confirms it" is a meme around here. But the number is right, Windows has been surpassed by Android. StatCounter confirms it. [wikipedia.org]
Yes, StatCounter, not Netcraft (Score:2)
Had I been more clever, I would have worked in a Netcraft joke and made it funny. Instead, I just accidentally typed Netcraft when I meant to type Statcounter.
I'm sure others have come up with slightly different numbers, but the point stands regardless. MS has gone from complete monopoly, what everyone used, to a minority - their market share of current *sales* is even less than the 38% statcounter shows. Yet they've managed to maintain and even grow revenue. Of course some of that is the fact that they act
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I never understood they mobile strategy. Windows Phone isn't a bad product; it looks good, has decent features out of the box. But they scare developers away with their app store clone and their mysterious release cycles for the o/s and sdks. And they did buy a big manufacturer but did nothing with it. What is wrong with those people?
They are making money with the tablets though - now about a billion per quarter. Maybe that's the plan, Surface Phone. I think I'm gonna increase my MSFT position just in case.
Best of luck (Score:4, Informative)
> I think I'm gonna increase my MSFT position just in case.
Best of luck with that. I've always done mutual funds instead of trying to pick. I often discussed this with my best friend, who would always pick stocks. One day, in early 2008, he told me that rather than picking one company he had made a can't-lose buy: both Intel and AMD. Being the only two processor manufacturers with any significant market share, one of them would have to do well! Of course that was just about the time Android was released and most processor sales started to be ARM devices, neither Intel nor AMD.
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But they scare developers away with their app store clone and their mysterious release cycles for the o/s and sdks.
Hmmm.. Once you code something it's supposed to work for many subsequent OS versions. How is that scary?
Re:Yes, StatCounter, not Netcraft (Score:4, Insightful)
The tale of Windows Phone is one of absolute hubris. Let me tell you the ways.
Microsoft thought, just by planting a guy to make Nokia move to WP, they could steal Nokia's exceedingly loyal users. But those people were not blindly loyal to the brand, they were invested in the roadmap: Symbian now, MeeGo soon. Without these, might as well go a completely different way. Especially when many were angry for the loss of MeeGo.
Ditto about carriers and app developers, who were counting on that roadmap. They had put a lot of money and work in preparing for MeeGo. The move to WP cost them a lot, so they were enraged and went with anyone but Microsoft.
The Skype acquisition didn't help either. Calls and messages for free? Carriers saw it as an existential threat. Microsoft got promoted from "those people are a headache" to "those sons of bitches are actively trying to murder us".
And WP may be decent now, but it was originally rushed. When the first Lumias came out, it was an incomplete mess without a possible upgrade. This meant lots of returned phones, a headache to retailers. So they also hated WP and discreetly guided potential buyers to a less headache-inducing alternative.
Microsoft was so sure they could buy success, they ended up stepping on everyone's toes.
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Microsoft revenue has grown in a more or less linear fashion since the 90s
The reason being the growing number of people having access to a computer (China, India for instance).
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rural area, only other choice is satellite, which would be just as bad.. perhaps worse, because the wired connection from the satellite 'modem' could not be set to 'metered' - which i made sure is now set on their pc.
From a security perspective, the only thing worse than a satellite internet access point is maybe going to Moscow airport and connecting randomly to a "free" wifi endpoint.
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Why would this be the case? Does it require a specialty application to connect or prevent your connections from using TLS under the guise of compression or something?
Re:wow, people can get win 10 updated? (Score:4, Interesting)
Check this piece on ars technica:
http://arstechnica.com/securit... [arstechnica.com]
Most available satellite-based Internet remains almost as limited now as when it was introduced two decades ago. It's slow and provides users only with a unidirectional download link. But there's something about the connections that made them highly attractive to Turla members: most satellite links are unencrypted and can be intercepted by anyone within a radius of more than 600 miles. That means a connection between someone located in, say, a remote location in Africa and a satellite-based ISP can be monitored or even hijacked by an attacker.
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Lately I've been playing with MobaXterm when I need to use Windows boxes. Seems pretty decent. Wish I had use of minicom so I'd have xmodem when I need to deal with devices at the console though.
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They don't have DNS where you work?
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The point isn't the addressing method, it's having to navigate through dialogue boxes in order to enter it.
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You can just invoke putty from the command line if you want...
c:\>putty ipaddress port
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I'll start caring what MS wants when they start caring what I want.
Re:Microsoft playing games us usual (Score:5, Funny)
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it seems like a tower of shit waiting to fall over
Definitely one of the most original expressions I've heard in some while!
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I am DONE with Linux as of now.
And yet, you kept ranting after this sentence.