Bay Area Tech Job Growth Has Rapidly Decelerated (mercurynews.com) 161
An anonymous reader shares a MercuryNews report: Job growth in the tech industry used to zoom like a race car, but these days, hiring by this principal driver of the Bay Area's economy chugs along more like a family SUV. The technology industry's job growth in the nine-county region has dramatically decelerated, according to this newspaper's analysis of figures released by state labor officials and Beacon Economics. Tech's annual job growth throttled back to 3.5 percent, or 26,700 new jobs, in 2016. That's much slower than the 6 percent annual gain of 42,300 jobs in 2015, or the 6.4 percent gain in 2014. And while the industry's 3.5 percent growth last year is still a sturdy annual pace, Bay Area technology companies have already disclosed plans to slash about 2,000 jobs in the first three months of 2017.
Re:Let's Face the Facts... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or more likely there is only so much room to fit people in the Bay Area, so hiring in other cities has started to take up the slack. It really is ridiculous to pay developer $200k a year in a place where that doesn't even give you an upper middle class lifestyle when you can pay people $150k in most large cities (or their suburbs) which can give employees a much higher standard of living.
I wouldn't take a job in the Bay Area for even a $100k/yr raise, since my comfortable six figure salary in the Chicago suburbs gives me a 2500 sq ft house with a nice yard and public schools that rival the best private schools. My $500k house would cost at least $3 million in the Bay Area.
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On the downside, you're in the Chicago suburbs.
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Places with a bad reputation tends to not be as bad when you are used to living there.
In the same fashion places with a good reputation tends to attract all kinds of assholes making the place not as good as its reputation.
I live in one of those immigrant dense suburbs with a crap reputation.
Some decade ago there was a reported shooting. (A gun-nut neighbor shot his rifle to celebrate whatever and probably took reasonable safety precautions.)
Apart from that it is fscking utopia where everyone is friendly and
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So your point is that s/he could escape very quickly and very often?
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IIRC an average of 3 people/year die in Chicago from ice falling off buildings. You can have it.
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Probably something like 3 people/day die in Chicago for looking at someone the wrong way. The Ice wouldn't scare me.
Re:Let's Face the Facts... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sure more than three people a year die in California after receiving their tax bills for the year.
At least the ice is sort of natural.
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You need to talk to someone who owns property in Chicago and ask them about their taxes.
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IIRC an average of 3 people/year die in Chicago from ice falling off buildings. You can have it.
Here in the UK, about 10 people a year die from accidentally falling off cliffs. So I'm not getting within a hundred miles of the sea. Oh, wait...
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IIRC an average of 3 people/year die in Chicago from ice falling off buildings. You can have it.
Three people per year is a rounding error. Do you really consider that an argument against Chicago? Because that makes me statistically feel much better about it!
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It's more than die from droughts, forest fires and mudslides in all of CA (obviously, in an average year). You'd have to go back pretty far for earthquake casualties to get there, if you include the great SF earthquake, you should include the Chicago fire for fair comparisons.
Then we can get into which city has the most corrupt police in the nation. LA doesn't hold a candle to Chicago or New Orleans in that respect.
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But when you go outside your house, you're in the Chicago suburbs.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a lifelong Chicagoan, currently living in Houston, but eager to go back. I love Chicago like a family member. But if you're going to live in the Chicago area, and brave the miserable winter, the miserable mayor, and the Chicago Bears, you at least ought to live closer to downtown, where accessibility to a decent It
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Are you sure you're not from, or related to, a Minnesotan?
Gotta have something to complain about during the winter, dontcha'-know.
In seriousness... I left Chicago for L.A., now in Atlanta.
I wouldn't likely go back, even though the schools in Libertyville, Evanston, Glenview, and Naperville are some of the best in the entire nation.
The suburbs (there at least) are culturally isolated, conformity is king; even with Indian and Asian kids I grew up with, who were culturally nurtured at home. Hugely whitewashed,
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Atlanta is nice.
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Aurora and Naperville might as well be Kentucky.
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You've never been to Naperville.
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We call it, "Napertucky". If you drive through every day, you know very well that's true.
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They have lot's of trains to get into the city. And traffic is not that bad
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But doesn't not needing to pay as much in rent cancel out higher tax rates?
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The Chicago area is a dump, traffic nightmare, and a liberals wet dream! Taxes are so high in the NW Burbs. Glad to be gone.
Taxes are incredibly high in the NW Burbs (about $14k per year on a $500k house) but you also get private school quality education paid for with those taxes. There are plenty of Chicago suburbs with low taxes, but your kids ultimately pay for it. That or you pay far more in private school tuition than you would have in taxes.
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Mod this fella up!
I lived in Libertyville growing up and the schools are some of the best in the nation.
L.A. is MUCH crunchier than Chicago/NW Suburbs; Chicago is very midwestern most of the time, while L.A. is a bit tweaky and disjointed, but more diverse; much more than Chi-town.
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I looked at buying a place in one of the western Chicago suburbs a few years ago and the high taxes really surprised me. They were around $6,000 to $7,000 per year, almost double what you'd pay in the city.
I've been renting my place on the south-side of Chicago for almost 10 years and pay $1,100 per month for a nice 3-bedroom place in a two-flat with a high ceiling, skylights and a third-floor addition. I've got a small backyard, a covered garage spot and plenty of street parking.
I thought I wanted my o
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Clearly the decline in population for the last few years in IL; I'd say a majority of people disagree with you.
Agreed. Regardless of what most people say, they would rather take a larger house for cheaper than give their kids the best education they can afford. Where I live $500k will get you a 2600 sq ft house in the best school district or a 4000 sq ft house in the much weaker school districts 5-10 miles away. Many people prioritize their three car garage over their kids' education. But that is what makes the best school districts the best; they have better parents. Combine parents who value education with a high
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Racist against whom? Chicago has black suburbs and white suburbs. They're both suburbs.
Me, I like places that have sidewalks, but you'd probably say that makes me a racist, too.
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Out of interest, do you intentionally not understand what "racist" means or are you genuinely confused?
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Or more likely there is only so much room to fit people in the Bay Area.
Can always cram more people in. Manilla has a population density per sq km of:
41,515 people.
San Francisco itself has a population density of
6,659
(I imagine the combined Bay area will be a little lower than that) So you should be able to cram at least 30million more people into the Bay Area if you try).
You could create a lot of SnapChat clones with 30million programmers.
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Or more likely there is only so much room to fit people in the Bay Area
Ummm, no. More likely this is another bubble, and we're seeing the first signs its going to pop. How many of these "businesses" that sell "free" products are actually turning a profit [cnn.com]? And how many are just waiting to be bought out [linkedin.com]? Sound familiar? It's the tech version of flipping houses.
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It's not the house that's expensive in the Bay Area. It's the land.
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The internet is a thing (Score:5, Insightful)
It's 2017, and you're a technology company, no, I will not move to the Bay Area.
Re:The internet is a thing (Score:5, Interesting)
Add to that, get asked to move to the Bay Area, and not get offered a pay raise. OR Relocation.
A former colleague of mine got offered a job as a subcontractor at Apple. She sold her 4-BR house, and most of the furniture, and gave her dog away. . . for enough money to rent a BEDROOM. . . .
Pass. . .
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she gave her dog away...? She deserves worse.
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I know. That right there would have killed the deal. But, apparently, the job was "sexy". Not that she kept it for long. She's gone through 6 jobs since then (less than 2 years ago), and, at least from her LinkedIn, returned "home". . .
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As someone who got offered a job at Apple (and accepted). I got paid my entire moving expenses, including moving all of my furniture across the Atlantic, plus stipends to re-acquire things like cars and electrical goods that weren't appropriate for moving to the US.
I call bullshit on your story for that reason.
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"subcontractor"
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A former colleague of mine got offered a job as a subcontractor at Apple
Probably not being given the full Apple Treatment.
Hit peak? (Score:2)
That's before you even factor in those now-established employers turning to look inward to figure out what they can do to reduce costs, and p
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Perhaps people are realizing when your market is global, you don't necessary have to be in the Bay area to develop; indeed, when you consider overheads, it seems silly, as there's good programmers everywhere.
Re:Hit peak? (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps people are realizing when your market is global, you don't necessary have to be in the Bay area to develop; indeed, when you consider overheads, it seems silly, as there's good programmers everywhere.
The only reason companies stay in the Bay area is because of connections and the ability to quickly find venture capital. If that wasn't an issue you wouldn't see this going on at all.
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That is the issue. VCs don't want anything but the tried and true. If the app slings ads, and it slurps up data to be sold for analytics, -boom- it gets funded. If your app actually does something useful, it won't. Look at the Meitu app as an example of the what is the Holy Grail of what is wanted by the VC people.
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There are other reasons. Only about two years ago, I spoke to someone who had just moved his startup from Austin to the Bay Area. This is someone who has profitably exited several startups, so he has some credibility.
His reason to move: in Austin, he can't find employees who can afford to work for little to no salary while the startup bootstraps itself. In the Bay Area, there are larger numbers of people who are both inclined to take a risk and wealthy enough to afford it.
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Indeed. Here in Atlanta we have a number of studios now, including Pinewood Atlanta, where several of the Marvel universe films were/are being made (Infinity War just started filming).
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When you are looking at rent of $1,000/month per employee for
cost of housing (Score:3, Insightful)
Studios, 1, 2 bedroom apts are ~$2000, $2500, $3000 respectively. Rooms are $1000-1500/mo.
Re:cost of housing (Score:4)
My 2700 sqft house on a quarter acre with unlimited free water costs $500/month in Idaho - only a 2 hour flight away from SoCal and 1 time zone.
I also have 5 acres of forest overlooking a large lake a couple hours away - $150/month.
SV and others need to expand to nearby cities.
Re:cost of housing (Score:4)
SV and others need to expand to nearby cities.
The exodus is already on for Silicon Valley as people flee to nearby regions. I'm hoping to transfer to the Sacramento Valley this summer. For what I pay for a studio apartment in Silicon Valley, I could get a three-bedroom apartment in Sacramento. Unfortunately, real estate prices are starting to spike there as well.
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A friend of mine (who is not an engineer) says "engineers spoil everything".
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A person can almost make a coherent argument for being boned from behind with no lube in the Bay Area, but why in the nine hells would you pay inflated prices to live in Sacramento?
My parents retired there in the 1990's and I know the area well. I'll probably move to North Highlands, which is above the floodplain and below the snowline, and still affordable.
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Inflated is relative.
Sacramento, at least, isn't full of Bay Aryans. Except downtown of course, which is full of want to be Bay Aryans.
Sac is about as close to the bay area as anybody with sense would get. It's not like we aren't familiar with the hell hole.
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My 2700 sqft house on a quarter acre with unlimited free water costs $500/month in Idaho - only a 2 hour flight away from SoCal and 1 time zone.
I also have 5 acres of forest overlooking a large lake a couple hours away - $150/month.
SV and others need to expand to nearby cities.
QFT. I moved to Idaho 8 years ago and will never go back. The amount I save on cost of living alone will mean the difference between retiring comfortably or not at all. I truly do not understand why people continue to work and live in SV. The one industry on Earth where you truly do not need to live where you work and they continue to flock like lemmings to the same horrible area.
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I hear it, I'm in a native fishing village in Washington with a 7 mile commute to my aerospace IT job. Paying a bit more than you but well under $1000/mo for lease and utilities, 2300 sqft and sound view a block off the water. I won't think of taking a job south of Everett.
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To be fair I and many others probably couldn't imagine worse. I actually own a 2200sqft house on a relatively large properly. I lived in it for a few years and now I rent it out and instead live in a sub 1000sqft apartment in a citycentre. It's a lifestyle choice. Money isn't in the equation here, it would have made more financial sense to stay in the house.
But people can rapidly get addicted to the city lifestyle to the point where room sharing is not a financial necessity but also a life goal.
I must say I
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'cool and cheap...Austin'. When was that? Being cooler than the rest of Texas _isn't_ good enough.
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My mortgage on a 4-bedroom house in the Sacramento area is a little over $900/month [...]
I've noticed that a mortgage cost less than renting in Sacramento.
You're either underpaid, or need to move.
I work in government IT and $50K+ is the national average for IT support techs. I got a lot of hemming and hawing when I requested a cost of living adjustment for Silicon Valley. If everything works out, I'll be moving to Sacramento this summer. After I get my InfoSec certifications, my next job should put me in the six-figure pay range.
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That's more than what I pay for a 1600 sq. ft. house on a wooded half-acre in the Chicago suburbs. I also make more than 150% of your salary here as well.
So what? I was born and raised in Silicon Valley when it still had orchards, canneries were the largest employers, and everyone else worked in THE CITY (San Francisco). If I wanted to freeze my ass off every winter, I would move up to Idaho to be with the rest of my extended family.
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You're the one who's acting proud to be overpaying on their living space while being underpaid.
Thanks to rent control and living in my studio apartment for nearly 12 years, I'm actually underpaying market rate by $300 per month.
[...] while being underpaid.
As an IT support technician (a.k.a., virtual ditch digger), $50K+ is the top of the pay scale. Once I get my InfoSec certification, I'll be making $100K in my next job. However, by living a modest lifestyle, I can live in Silicon Valley without making $100K+ per year.
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Kind of begs the question as to why you want to live in Silicon Valley? You could move to a place with a lot of tech jobs like Chicago, make more money and have a lower cost of living. Yeah, the winters can suck, but it's not bad with the right gear.
I pay $1,100 for a two-level place with 3-bedrooms, high ceilings, skylights, and a covered garage spot. There's plenty of street parking in the neighborhood, I can catch the bus less than a half-block away and it takes me about 30 minutes to get to work.
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Kind of begs the question as to why you want to live in Silicon Valley?
Born and raised here. Used to have family here. Will probably move to Sacramento Valley this summer.
I can catch the bus less than a half-block away and it takes me about 30 minutes to get to work.
Two local busses and an express bus takes me from the doorstep of my apartment to the doorstep of my job 30 miles away in 60 minutes.
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I pay that for a 2000sq ft house in Minneapolis. My TV room is bigger than 475sq ft. I have a tax write off and equity. Sucker...
That's nothing. My brother's in-laws bought a $1M house in Gilroy with a wet bar bigger than my kitchen and a kitchen bigger than my apartment. So obscene. The mountain lion behind the 20-foot-tall wired fence was cool.
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$1M house in Gilroy, what's that, 750 sq ft and no garage?
Five bedrooms, 3K- to 4K-sft and three-car garage. Lot size is from a little to a lot.
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Gilroy_CA/beds-5-5 [realtor.com]
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20 years ago 3M hired about 100 CA engineers and tracked them. At the end of the second winter they had 1 left, he was from there originally.
3M doesn't even try to hire CA engineers anymore.
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As others have said anywhere outside the big cities that would be a mortgage on a million dollar home.
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When I worked as a tech at UCSF in the late '70s I was paying $250 / month for a room in a large Victorian, a block from the hospital. Bog knows what the place is going for now.
Time and inflation. Amazing concepts.
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You want to pay someone $60K for an 60-80 hour week in the bay area and can't find anyone to fill that roll!
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The answer is obvious... (Score:5, Funny)
There's a shortage of tech workers to hire. Industry must have increased H1B caps!
H1B (Score:1)
They're realizing that they can't keep importing indentured servants. The 21st century's Big Cotton is collapsing.
What are locals saying? (Score:5, Interesting)
LinkedIn can't be wrong... (Score:5, Funny)
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LinkedIn says there are 100,000+ tech jobs available in the San Francisco Bay Area.
LinkedIn endorses me for several languages and skills I've never learned.
Re:LinkedIn can't be wrong... (Score:4, Interesting)
The two facts are not at necessarily odds with each other. The reporting is on the number of people employed; LinkedIn tells you the number of open vacancies. The problem is that with the housing capacity tapped out and the cost of living through the roof it is becoming increasingly hard to fill the jobs that exist, so hiring is slowing down. Cities in the Bay Area from San Mateo to Sunnyvale have been building office space faster than they have been building homes and is this is the result.
Most Programing/Tech Jobs Aren't in Silicon Valley (Score:2)
There seems to be this idea that Silicon Valley is the center of all things tech. It really only accounts for a tiny fraction of the Tech labor force. What makes it "special" is the access to venture capital. If you had a big idea and wanted to be the next Facebook or Instagram sure, Silicon Valley might be for you. If you want to be a computer programer you could stay in any big Midwest City, make $150K (Full Time W2)/200+K (1099 Contract), and pay less than $1000/mo for home mortgage.
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I know! I know!
A venture capital app.
Or is that recursive?
Dump H1B (Score:4)
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I hear how instagram is this amazing success story, but it's fucking picture sharing. Facebook, Twitter? They're good ways to kill a few minutes and I understand they've made a lot of money for a few people. And sure, not everything needs to be getting flying cars and curing cancer.
Google might be making self-driving cars that could stop a lot of road deaths. Tesla is makin
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you could say the same of most of the comforts of life including the internet and personal computers and smart phones...just conveniences we don't need in the absolute sense.
economy is made of many such things. since I'm old I know most of what we have isn't "necessary". I spent more than half my life without cell phone, electronic ignition and fuel injection, microwave oven, etc.......but man am I glad for such things and if you want to take them from me I'll fight you 8D
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I don't see the problem with crappy startups. They are like a parasite sucking money from venture capitalists, it creates jobs, even if they are just crappy ones.
Who cares (Score:2)
Even if they were to hire more people it would be from outside the country. Whether hiring stalls or is accelerating it doesn't make a difference to americans.
Bad analogy (Score:1)
Obviously the author has not seen how "family" SUVs are driven. I can assure you, they do not chug along. More like, "Prepare for ramming speed! [youtube.com]"
Remote Work (Score:1)
Only 3%: places in the Rust Belt would love it (Score:2)
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It's your fault America (Score:2)
This is what happens when you don't buy your family new iPhones every year. You should feel ashamed, don't you know that a lot of us have 7 figure mortgages to pay?
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It's not really so bad. To put it into perspective, cops and firefighters make $120k-$130k, more if they move up in the ranks. Cops get a lot of overtime and make a little extra money that way. Firefighters tend to have some kind of side business because they get a fair amount of time off. (Just about anything from working as a handyman to writing mobile apps). Median home price in some places might be $800k+, but 20 miles away you can find areas that are closer to $600k median and with a pretty large range