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Why More Tech Companies Are Hiring People Without Degrees (fastcompany.com) 329

An anonymous reader writes: According to a recent article on Fast Company, tech companies are looking to hire people without degrees. From the report: "For years, the tech pipeline has been fed mostly from the same elite universities. This has created a feedback loop of talent and a largely homogenous workplace. As a result, tech continues to stumble when it comes to diversity. The technology industry is now trying to figure out a way to attack its cultural and demographic homogeneity issues. One simple initiative is to begin to recruit talent from people outside of its preferred networks. One way is to extend their recruiting efforts to people who don't have four-year degrees. The technology industry is now trying to figure out a way to attack its cultural and demographic homogeneity issues. One simple initiative is to begin to recruit talent from people outside of its preferred networks. One way is to extend their recruiting efforts to people who don't have four-year degrees. IBM's head of talent organization, Sam Ladah, calls this sort of initiative a focus on 'new-collar jobs.' The idea, he says, is to look toward different applicant pools to find new talent. 'We consider them based on their skills,' he says, and don't take into account their educational background. This includes applicants who didn't get a four-year degree but have proven their technical knowledge in other ways. Some have technical certifications, and others have enrolled in other skills programs. 'We've been very successful in hiring from [coding] bootcamps,' says Ladah. Intel has also been looking to find talent from other educational avenues. One program gave people either enrolled in or recently graduated from community colleges internships with the company. Similarly, the company has been trying to get a foothold in high schools by funding initiatives to boost computer science curricula for both the Oakland Unified School District and an Arizona-based high-school oriented program called Next Generation of Native American Coders. Intel, for example, invests in the program CODE 2040, which aims to build pathways for underrepresented minority youth to enter the technology space. Likewise, GitHub has partnered with coding-focused enrichment programs like Operation Code, Hackbright, and Code Tenderloin."
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Why More Tech Companies Are Hiring People Without Degrees

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:03AM (#54184573)
    I don't understand why companies would even give a shit about cultural or demographic homogeneity issues. They exist to make money, period. Nothing else matters, except as it relates to that.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      They care precisely because they exist to make money. The pool of skilled labour is limited to the point that is making it hard for them to get the staff they need, so the obvious solution is to expand the pool. Diversity, H1B, education programmes...

      Do you really think Intel would invest £300m into improving diversity just because some "SJWs" criticised them? No, it's because they expect a return on that investment.

      • They care precisely because they exist to make money. The pool of skilled labour is limited to the point that is making it hard for them to get the staff they need, so the obvious solution is to expand the pool. Diversity, H1B, education programmes...

        Do you really think Intel would invest £300m into improving diversity just because some "SJWs" criticised them? No, it's because they expect a return on that investment.

        This and there is a strong belief by many in management that the actual performance of the employee isn't as important as cutting costs. It's driven by short term gains.

        • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:35AM (#54184759)

          Many Ruby on Rails projects are a great example of how focusing on short term cost savings ends up resulting in long term cost overruns.

          Lots of not-so-bright managers heard the hype about Ruby on Rails. They heard how it could supposedly let web apps be created really quickly, often by cheap programmers who had dropped out of high school. There were also all sorts of acronyms like "ORM", "DRY", "CoC", and "RESTful" that these managers could use to convince their managers that Ruby on Rails was the way to go. So whenever a new software development project came up, they chose Ruby on Rails.

          What was the actual result? Disaster. Many of these projects were huge failures, far beyond the typical failures we see for complex projects. It turns out that Ruby on Rails is often extremely slow on its own. Combine that with high school dropout programmers who don't know what runtime complexity analysis is, and you get even slower software. The main way of dealing with this slowness was just to throw more hardware, and usually more expensive hardware, at the problem until the slowness was mitigated sufficiently. Even then the software was often pretty much unusable because it didn't actually do what the users needed it to do, because high school dropouts aren't capable of properly analyzing the needs of the users. After many delays, performance problems, and usability problems, much of this software was just thrown away.

          With Ruby on Rail's reputation quite tainted within the industry, these managers and high school dropout programmers had to find new technologies to push. As hard as it may be to believe, they actually chose to go with a worse language, JavaScript, and a worse framework than Ruby on Rails, Node.js! Now we're getting to witness all sorts of Node.js projects ending up just like how the Ruby on Rails ones did: disasters.

          What projects have been successful? The ones that ignore the most hyped technologies, and stick with proven technologies used by experienced and costlier professional software developers. Many of these projects use "un-sexy" technologies like Java and C#/.NET. They don't have much hype surrounding them, but they can be used to get real work done. The upfront cost might be slightly higher, but in the end the ongoing hardware costs are minimal, and the software can actually be used for years to come, instead of rapidly thrown away.

        • A person that has spent $100-150k+ for four years of education is inherently more expensive than someone who avoided that time and cost, but not necessarily better for all tasks. Building a company of all superstars has its benefits, but isn't really a sustainable business model.
      • by NicknameUnavailable ( 4134147 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:52AM (#54184845)

        They care precisely because they exist to make money. The pool of skilled labour is limited to the point that is making it hard for them to get the staff they need, so the obvious solution is to expand the pool. Diversity, H1B, education programmes...

        There is plenty of skilled labor, they just don't want to pay what it's worth.

      • by goose-incarnated ( 1145029 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:00AM (#54184881) Journal

        They care precisely because they exist to make money. The pool of skilled labour is limited to the point that is making it hard for them to get the staff they need, at the price they want to pay!

        FTFY

        so the obvious solution is to expand the pool. Diversity, H1B, education programmes...

        Do you really think Intel would invest £300m into improving diversity just because some "SJWs" criticised them? No, it's because they expect a return on that investment.

        In the form of lower salaries. Expanding the pool is not about getting more workers, it's about getting cheaper workers. Those big companeis care about the bottom line, and having a larger pool is secondary to having cheaper workers.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Hmm, let's see. Looking at Intel engineer salaries, $100k seems like a reasonable average for a quick sanity check. So $300m invested, let's say that due to their diversity programme they can hire engineers who are just as productive but only cost $60k/year. $40k/year saved, $300m invested = 7,500 engineer-years to recover their costs.

          (source: http://www.payscale.com/resear... [payscale.com])

          How many $100k engineers does Intel employ? What are the overheads of firing thousands of them and replacing them with brand new div

          • Especially since a plan to break the law by hiring diverse candidates at lower rates, and then publicly announcing it so that you get maximum scrutiny by social justice organizations probably isn't the most sensible way to pull off such a diabolical scheme.

            Jeez, if that's all they want to do, they can just hire women at 77 cents on the dollar for the same type and level of education and the same amount of job experience, and save a hundred million right off the bat.

            /snark

      • by thomn8r ( 635504 )

        The pool of skilled labour is limited to the point that is making it hard for them to get the staff they need

        Then why are these companies - who are so desperate to get skilled staff - laying off so many of the skilled people they already have?

      • They care precisely because they exist to make money. The pool of skilled labour is limited to the point that is making it hard for them to get the staff they need, so the obvious solution is to expand the pool. Diversity, H1B, education programmes...

        I could understand the H1B and extra education programs, but I was under the impression that "diversity" in many US colleges didn't expand the graduate numbers, merely replaced some applicants with other applicants to be accepted instead. Of course they could just accept more people...but I guess that's too simple to work. ;)

      • by sycodon ( 149926 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:25AM (#54185067)

        Absolute Fucking Bullshit.

        What do un-degree'd and H-1B people have in common? They are cheap labor.

        What is happening is that these companies (Ironically run by all those SJWs) saying to all the people who did things the right way, stay in school, get a degree, etc, "Fuck You, we can get cheaper labor elsewhere."

        And yes, Intel sure as fuck would respond to SJWs. Have you fucking read the news lately?

      • by moeinvt ( 851793 )

        "Do you really think Intel would invest £300m into improving diversity just because some 'SJWs' criticised them? "

        Something along those lines, absolutely! Intel has been an extremely successful company with its predominately white, predominately male workforce. This "diversity" bullshit is nothing but a collective mental illness which permeates contemporary culture & Intel is trying to capitalize on it. The whole effort is a big public image campaign.

        It's not just "some SJWs" criticizing

      • The pool of skilled labour is limited to the point that is making it hard for them to get the staff they need, so the obvious solution is to expand the pool. Diversity, H1B, education programmes...

        . . . Tech hiring's job is to assemble the most competent team possible. When you have sufficient solid coders, architects, and engineers, then, MAYBE, you can worry about 'diversity". I'd put the money into education and training. And ignore H-1B entirely. . .

      • Employees to companies are like water to a person. By offering progressively worse working conditions over the last 20 years they have now pissed in their water supply and are complaining there is no water to drink. Congratulations companies, you participated in the race to the bottom and it bit you in the ass. Wonderful progressive business planning.
    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      Diversity is a mandate now, so HR departments have to pay homage to the idea. None dare call it quotas.

      "For years, the tech pipeline has been fed mostly from the same elite universities. This has created a feedback loop of talent and a largely homogenous workplace."

      That's odd. I thought that if your college application included a bio about being a minority abused child who evacuated refugees from Syria using your own homemade soapbox racer, the Ivy League schools would be fighting over you.

    • I know someone without a degree wrote that summary. Take this section, and read it carefully (emphasis mine):

      The technology industry is now trying to figure out a way to attack its cultural and demographic homogeneity issues. One simple initiative is to begin to recruit talent from people outside of its preferred networks. One way is to extend their recruiting efforts to people who don't have four-year degrees. The technology industry is now trying to figure out a way to attack its cultural and demographic

      • I happen to know it was written by someone with a Masters who is working on his PhD.

        Well, no, not really. I have no clue who wrote it. But I don't believe making cut-and-paste errors and failing to proof read your writing is limited to that part of the population that doesn't have (at least) a four year degree.

        I usually proof read the things I write, and still I manage to send emails and post things that have glaring errors that I somehow overlooked. It's an unfortunate side effect of the email culture we h

      • by creimer ( 824291 )

        I know someone without a degree wrote that summary.

        I submitted that article as an AC. I don't have a high school diploma but I have two associate degrees (General Education and Computer Programming). The section of the summary you quoted was from the article. You can't blame for the content or the editor adding more from the article than fair use allows.

        • by fyngyrz ( 762201 )

          Read it again. It repeats itself, verbatim.

          • by creimer ( 824291 )

            Read it again. It repeats itself, verbatim.

            Re-read my comment. That quote is from the article itself, not the person (me!) who submitted the article to Slashdot. I know tech writers with master degrees who can write worse than that.

    • I think it's like when my son has a toolbox with only a hammer in it. He attempts to resolve all problems with the hammer instead of considering other possibilities. In a business having employees who all have a common background and education is great when the focus is very narrow and all of your projects are suited well to your hammer. If you want to expand your list of prospective lines of business you would be well advised to add more tools. This doesn't mean you throw out the hammer and abandon all the

    • I don't understand why companies would even give a shit about cultural or demographic homogeneity issues. They exist to make money, period. Nothing else matters, except as it relates to that.

      In the USA it's federal law. Federal law prohibits discrimination on a pretty wide variety of reasons. How do you not know this?

    • by SirSlud ( 67381 )

      Companies with more diverse workplaces make money money, because you don't have 50 people with the same background that think mostly the same way. Companies voluntarily adopt diversity initiatives *precisely* because they're sold on the data that shows that becoming more diverse is better for their bottom line.

      • by gtall ( 79522 )

        While in general I agree with your sentiments, I have no illusions that hiring managers or bean counters can think that far ahead.

        More likely, companies are getting hammered about diversity, and lowing costs they can flog to investors. Why not put the two together, hire diverse people without degrees and play them less. Two birds, one stone, both dead.

        • by SirSlud ( 67381 )

          I don't know about you, but I know a lot of people who work in HR, and no, it's not about paying people less.

    • by elrous0 ( 869638 )

      I don't understand why companies would even give a shit about cultural or demographic homogeneity issues.

      Usually because they've made the foolish decision to locate their company in Silicon Valley. Refusing the fully embrace the SJW agenda there will get you harassed by professional protestors and politicians alike.

      Good news though if you have a vagina or dark skin and don't mind taking a job where you do fake make-work while your white male and Asian co-workers have to shoulder all the load. "Better bring in some more H1B's so we can afford more fake women and minority workers," said the virtue-signalling CEO

  • VocTech 2.0 (Score:5, Interesting)

    by 0100010001010011 ( 652467 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:05AM (#54184591)

    Congratulations companies. You have now figured out that 4 year degrees are not on the job training seminars.

    My local high school has an "IT" track that is very hands on approach to a sysadmin style job without the college. There are multiple job positions across all industries that are better served with a hands on approach to learning just like plumbing, electrical, pipe fitting, etc.

    When you build a house you don't need 50 architects and engineers. You need a handful and then another handful of people that know how to put hammer to wood. I don't know why people think that IT, coding, etc is any different.

    • Programmers need to be able to solve discrete problems, but they don't necessarily need to be high-level software architects. They do need to be engineers.

      Also these are H1-C Visas: instead of a $50k IIT graduate, we have a $30k high school graduate. Once you OJT them, they're just as good; and you can give them slow raises, 2% or so, instead of bumping them by $30k. Since they don't have degrees, you can hire somebody else's trained monkey for peanuts, too.

    • And on this note colleges shouldn't be afraid to have a more hands on learning approach. Having gone through and gotten an advanced degree myself, it was amazing to see how many graduates never did anything practical with their knowledge outside of a single class project or two. Knowing how to put a hammer to wood reasonably well in this example would make a better engineer/architect.
    • Yeah, no. What WILL happen is that in order to pander to both Universities and the students with loan debt, there will be legislation to make them have first access to jobs. Trump may veto, but it can get overridden by both parties in Congress. Also, never discount the close relationship between EDU and GOV.

    • "As a result, tech continues to stumble when it comes to diversity. The technology industry is now trying to figure out a way to attack its cultural and demographic homogeneity issues....build pathways for underrepresented minority youth to enter the technology space"

      Be absolutely clear on this: This is a way to hire more melanin- and vaginally-equipped people.

      This is NOT about 'recognizing a college degree isn't always needed' (which I personally agree is something all businesses need to start recognizing)

    • by scatbomb ( 1099255 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @01:38PM (#54186275)
      Here it comes, the college tuition bubble is about to burst! Not just for everyone getting gender studies and philosophy degrees, either.
  • by ninthbit ( 623926 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:06AM (#54184593)

    Tech workers have been saying the best talent is self trained for decades. No university can teach someone how to be a passionate nerd. As for their motives.... I think it's much simpler. People with degrees want more money, so they can pay off the loans.

    • by OzPeter ( 195038 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:24AM (#54184709)

      No university can teach someone how to be a passionate nerd.

      On the other hand a good degree will introduce you to concepts and rigor that you would otherwise not encounter if you were self taught.

      Just yesterday I was mapping out a solution to a small software task that involves sampling analog data. My EE degree of 30 years ago (oh shit that long!) kicked in and I knew that I would have to implement a low pass filter at some point in the data stream and knew why I had to do it. At which point I looked up some digital filtering code and knew the sorts of filters I wanted to implement and what their characteristics were. And I haven't seriously touched this stuff since I graduated.

      Given my career path, digital filtering is something that would never have crossed my horizon if I had of been self taught. Yet here I am with a complete understanding of what I need to do.

      On the third hand I am now wishing I did that elective on compiler construction as I have a task that really needs me to build a compiler for a specific language so that I can mine the analysis phase for some code metrics. I know that I will get there eventually .. but it is going to take a lot of preliminary reading just to get to the productive point.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        On the other hand a good degree will introduce you to concepts and rigor that you would otherwise not encounter if you were self taught.

        Yes!

        Is a degree absolutely required? No. It's possible, in rare cases with exceptional people, to end up in a similar place while being self taught. However I do think that is rare. Most non-degree programmers I've seen fall into the "talented hack" category. Which to be fair, many or most programmers with degrees also do. But on the balance, the people with degrees are exposed to things like you are talking about: sampling theory, compiler theory, Fourier transforms, advanced calculus... and we need

        • I recall at one place, teaching our principal software engineer about trigonometry, and transcendental functions. He could use the library functions, but he didn't understand how they applied to a problem we were having - instabilities in an x/y/theta stage control. Apparently he never learned them in his Russian "university" degree that he claimed he had. (He was a pretty good coder, but he really had no foundation in maths at all)
      • Sometimes. We've got well respected universities around here pumping out master's degrees in CS that amount to two years of introductory courses in different languages.

    • Tech workers have been saying the best talent is self trained for decades. No university can teach someone how to be a passionate nerd. As for their motives.... I think it's much simpler. People with degrees want more money, so they can pay off the loans.

      Just because someone attends college doesn't mean they can't be top talent, but being passionate and involved in their personal lives as well is the mark of the most capable and talented people.

    • Tech workers have been saying the best talent is self trained

      That definitely is the slashdot mantra, anyway...

  • Indeed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by OneHundredAndTen ( 1523865 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:16AM (#54184653)
    To do a code monkey's job, you do not need much in the way of a degree, as the Microsofts of the world well know. And the latter can get away with lower pay packages.
  • by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:17AM (#54184665)

    If you're looking for someone trained for a task, you don't look for a university degree... that's a filter for "People willing to put 4 years and a massive amount of debt into a piece of paper to get past an HR/social hurdle".

    Because university is about broadening your horizons and teaching you how to think so you have the capacity to develop the next thing other people will be going to job training for, and using it for anything else is the giant, expensive, frustrating thing that's keeping otherwise talented people out of your shop.

    If you want a programmer, you don't need someone who can think up the next great programming language. You need someone who knows a current programming language and has the capacity to learn the next one, with a side order of sufficient social skills to work cooperatively and (in some cases) interact directly with clients.

    • There is this one guy I used to know who went to a state school worked at withheld as an programmer. And I used some of stuff he worked on it's software was buggy with some bad crash bugs I think about 1 year or less he got fired.

  • "We've been very successful in hiring from [coding] bootcamps" - I call bullshit. There's no way you can get a good coder from a crash course. Best you'll get is a code monkey.
  • Those of us with four year degrees in the field form a non-elite university?
  • by PA23 ( 1708056 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:45AM (#54184811)

    I have been in the IT industry for almost 30 years and I am a college dropout, I'm guessing I have about 60 credits to my name. I got my start working full time for the University I was attending. Since then I've moved around, gone through buyouts, acquisitions, and layoffs. I've worked for some very well known large companies and received offers from others. In my almost 30 years I'm only aware of two companies that wouldn't even talk to me because I didn't have a degree, one was a financial services firm and the other was a telco. There may have been others that I never knew about but I have no way of knowing.

    I have no way of knowing if a degree would have helped me, then again what I'm doing today, WAN/LAN design and implementation wasn't taught when I attended college in the mid 80's, computer engineering was programming, usually Pascal, Fortran, or C, while cisco was barely a company when I started. I do think a degree would have opened up more options to me since I focused strictly on what interested me without regard to what skills might be needed for other jobs, both in or out of the IT industry to improve my marketability.

    Over the years I've had the opportunity to interview potential candidates for positions, I never paid much attention to college degrees, I probably made a mental note if they did or did not attend college but I was more interested in the experience they had listed and if they could backup what was on the resume.

    • by Kagato ( 116051 )

      Same here. Went into consulting and hit it big when Y2K was a thing. Stuck with consulting and now my income put me in the top 4%. Which is great since I live in a very low cost area. I do a lot of on-shoring gigs these days. All the customers that did off-shoring early on are having buyers remorse that's compounded by how wages are on the rise in India.

  • Because they can pay them less.

    • And they're less mobile. Harder to move to another company w/out a degree. But I suppose this trend may reduce that advantage.

  • I have read every comment to the present time. Passion? How many of you have read "The Art of Computer Programming," all four volumes cover to cover and worked through most of it. Do that and I will say that you are passionate. I only made three volumes. Going through just three volumes, how many would say the person is unqualified. I would say that a person that made it through three volumes probably has a greater fundamental and advance knowledge than most programmers and experts. I have an advance degre
  • by creimer ( 824291 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:12AM (#54184969) Homepage
    Geez, Slashdot, you dumped the entire article into the summary. Fair use requires only a small portion of the original content. When I submitted this story as AC, I put in the first two paragraphs (89 words) for the summary. The revised summary has 337 words. Whatever happened to 120 words or less?
  • by K. S. Kyosuke ( 729550 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:14AM (#54184977)

    For years, the tech pipeline has been fed mostly from the same elite universities. This has created a feedback loop of talent and a largely homogenous workplace

    Many companies would love to have the problem of having a largely talented and well-educated workplace obtained by recruiting people from elite universities.

    • by aaarrrgggh ( 9205 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:33AM (#54185127)
      At first, yes. The problem is you don't get people that excel at different parts of the process. Yes, that might be a codeword for the "production" work. Super-intelligent people are great at some things but not everything.
      • by malkavian ( 9512 )
        What? Just because someone'e intelligent, they don't have a different thought process? I've done the whole university thing, and run my own business as well as contracted and done the full timer thing.. One thing I can say about University people is they have radically different approaches to things. There is no magical "diverse through process" that can be gained by _not_ having a degree. What the degree does is expose those natural thought processes to approaches that will make code more maintainable,
  • by evolutionary ( 933064 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:21AM (#54185033)
    The industry has long know that the best developers are self taught to the point they actually didn't need the degree. I'm not saying the material learned in doing the degree isn't useful. (Some programs are better than others mind you.) but the best are self trained, typically from their early teens and will take on projects during high school that are often beyond undergrads in university. It also demonstrates initiative and the ability to adapt with the expense of formal training. Many university only computer professional stop learning after they graduate. Not all, but some. And if the candidate has only recently graduated from university with no pre-university experience, there is no way to prove immediately they they will continue to learn throughout their career. So there it is. The key to IT (and any profession in my opinion) is to be a lifelong learner, and that is what IT pros without degrees had to prove to be hired.
    • The very best are totally self-trained but that's maybe the top 2%. Then you have people who have a combination of self-trained and schooling which makes up maybe the next quartile, a big half who just got paper degrees and muddle through, and then there are the folks who somehow managed to get a job and not get fired but nobody can figure out why.

      Anyway, 2% of the workforce is effectively zero if you have to do any significant hiring. Your best bet is to hire the next quartile to be your managers, have t

  • by SmaryJerry ( 2759091 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:35AM (#54185145)
    When will people get that. People of the same race are so different it is crazy to look at race or demographics as a way to diversify. It shows they have no idea what diversity is that they assume a whole race or sex is the same. We need to assume all humans are the same and forget about trying to meet quotas or exactly equal the population distribution. A different culture is exists in every single city of the world. Just look at the U.K. And how accents change city to city.
  • by foxalopex ( 522681 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @10:37AM (#54185159)

    I'm a university graduate myself in Comp Sci and what I often find missing in programmers that never went to post-secondary education is the theory of why certain things are done the way they are. While there often aren't any hard rules, some topics like how to deal with multi-threading, deadlocks and linear optimization will not be things that folks are good at programming unless they've had some exposure to the theory. Or programmers come up with the wrong solutions for complex problems which sort of work but usually less optimal or somewhat flawed. I should knowx I worked on a deadlock problem in high school and came up with something that worked but not reliably.

    That said, experience and whether someone is actually good at programming can't be determined by a degree. I've met folks who are talented programmers who never went to school and folks who went to university who couldn't program if their life depended on it. About all the advice I could give to companies would be to take your best programmer (not your best HR or Manager) person who understands what they're doing and to have them pick the candidate to hire based on some actual programming tests. Talented programmers know each other and besides, you do want your programmers to work together I would assume.

    • Yeah, that's the thing I think gets missed here: you don't need a college degree to be a programmer. You don't need a college degree to do any job. But the people who do the job best are the people who've been studying it their whole lives.
  • An optimistic view of this situation would be that these tech companies are trying to avoid the monoculture that occurs when all of your employees went to the same 10 or 15 schools, are white, Asian or Indian males, all got near-perfect SAT scores and GPAs, and all have the exact same ideas on how to approach a problem. Google used to only hire top-10 CS graduates for a while in its early history. I think what tech companies are trying to do is to get out of the mindset that no one could possibly be useful

  • Not too long after the millennium you could write your own ticket with a good cert. The demand was huge because of the networking boom but also because certs like CCNP could cost ~$60k.
    This was until Indian out-slavers figured they could replace more US workers if they passed whole classes on cert. exams based on the results of the highest grade and destroyed the value of any of certs through incompetence.
    • by creimer ( 824291 )
      I don't think the Cisco certification cost ~$60K back then. The CCIE will always be expensive with the physical hardware exam going for $1,500 each and most people taking it three or four times to pass. Not many certifications that will get you a job starting at $250K.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    But I forgot whether that's degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit.

    The odd thing ia that I have rarely encountered a software developer with a university degree in Computer Science or Computer Engineering, whereas ones with degrees in Electronics or Physics are quite common.

  • Blah blah blah (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ilsaloving ( 1534307 ) on Thursday April 06, 2017 @11:48AM (#54185549)

    Blah blah homogenity issues blah blah

    Let's be realistic here. People with degrees cost more. It's as simple as that. Not only that, they're going to be older and so be more likely to be advancing to the next stages of their lives (ie: family, etc).

    The younger you can get em, the less you can pay them and the more you can abuse them. It's not as good as H1Bs, but it's a great Plan B, and to the ignorant who can't extrapolate their end game, the companies even get some publicity points.

    I can't wait to see the looks on the 25 year olds when 18-20 year olds start declaring that the 25-ers are "too old" to be in the business. I'd laugh if it didn't have my palm covering my face.

    • by creimer ( 824291 )

      I can't wait to see the looks on the 25 year olds when 18-20 year olds start declaring that the 25-ers are "too old" to be in the business.

      I spent six years as a video game tester from my mid- to late-30's. Most youngsters hired out of high school don't believe me when I told them that I played the Atari 2600 in the early 1980's since no console existed before they were born. I introduce them to "grandpa," who did have grandkids and built arcade machines in the early 1980's. I then introduced them to "armourer," who was an armourer in the Army and tested pen-and-paper games in the 1970's. Their heads usually explode at that point.

  • You know, I'm self taught in the area of embedded development. You know what I do? Right now, write an IP stack fully in assembler. Because I know the assembler of the MC I use better than I know its C. Plus the compiler creates shit code.

    Do you want that in a professional, production environment? Hell no! That code can be maintained by exactly one person: Me. If that. This is not what you want! What you want is someone who has the skill to plan his code for a team, who understands the necessity of well def

  • by Frosty Piss ( 770223 ) * on Thursday April 06, 2017 @12:26PM (#54185791)

    This is mostly the praddle of those that dropped out or never went. Sure, if you want to be a Systems Admin drone, and think that it's the apex of IT, fine. But if you want to be a serious software archatect who understands the global issues and actually builds the future, no, sorry, a high school dropout usually doesn't cut it.

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