Why Do Airlines Overbook? (bbc.com) 575
From a report on BBC: A common overbooking problem on a United Airlines flight on Sunday ended with a man being bloodied and dragged from his seat and an already troubled airline earning more bad press. How did it all go so wrong? Overbooking on flights happens all the time. Empty seats cost airlines money, so they offset the number of passengers who miss flights by selling too many tickets. In this case, the problem arose because United decided at the last minute to fly four members of staff to a connection point and needed to bump four passengers to make way for them. When there's an overbooking issue the first step is to offer an inducement to the passengers to take a later flight. [...] Of the 613 million people who flew on major US carriers in 2015, 46,000 were involuntarily denied boarding, according to data from the Department of Transportation -- less than 0.008%.
Mile high club (Score:4, Insightful)
Why aren't there breach of contract lawsuits? (Score:3)
We have a simple implied contract:
I give you the amount of money you stipulate as a fare for travel from A to B starting at a specific time.
In the absence of uncontrollable exigent circumstances, you carry me from A to B starting at or very close to that time.
Being kicked off because of a deliberate overbooking policy or a bureacratic screw-up in aircrew accommodation is simple breach of contract.
And it should be up to a civil law proceeding to determine the value of compensation due.
If government has set m
Re:Why aren't there breach of contract lawsuits? (Score:5, Insightful)
According to the contract, it was within UA's rights to remove the passenger from the plane. However, it was a royal PR fuckup to do it in the way that they did, and consequentially, they deserve whatever fallout comes from this.
Because it is profitable to do so (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the beginning and the end of this conversation.
The only way to get airlines to stop doing it is to make it unprofitable to do so either through fines and/or regulations which increase the compensation for those bumped from flights to the point where it's not worth it to do.
Re: (Score:2)
they didn't do it in the 80's and 90's when flying half full planes was the norm. they started in the late 90's when airline tickets first went online and people started to shop by price. after that someone figured out that selling a business class ticket and having that person miss the flight was really losing money cause they could have sold two tickets for that seat.
and it really took off with Priceline who made a huge business of selling cheap tickets that were the first ones to be denied boarding
Re: (Score:3)
they didn't do it in the 80's and 90's when flying half full planes was the norm. they started in the late 90's when airline tickets first went online and people started to shop by price.
I was bumped off a trans-Atlantic flight for just this very reason in 1991, so I don't buy that.
Turned out OK. Put up in a hotel, flight refunded and flew the next day, and I was in no hurry as I was going to the US for the whole summer. But had I been going for just a week, or have had commitments at the other end, I'd have been pissed.
This was with British Airways BTW.
Re:Because it is profitable to do so (Score:5, Insightful)
A suggestion I put in one of the other versions of this story - require airlines to get volunteers and place no limit on compensation. The issue here is that there is a power imbalance and its in the financial interest of the dominant party to take advantage of the weaker.
By removing the compensation limit and requiring volunteers we return balance to the situation and make it a free market. If it occasionally costs $20000 for someone to volunteer then airlines will be more careful about overbooking and people being bumped won't be complaining as they got an amount they're happy changing their plans for.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Because it is profitable to do so (Score:5, Informative)
It looks like there actually is a maximum ($1,350).
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cf... [cornell.edu]
Re:Because it is profitable to do so (Score:4, Informative)
There is nothing to stop an airline paying more compensation. Take this case:
http://heelsfirsttravel.boardi... [boardingarea.com]
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Because it is profitable to do so (Score:5, Interesting)
What baffles me is that United didn't even do that. Passengers said the largest offer they heard was in the hundreds.
I travel for business a lot and often run into the overbooking situation - my company uses Delta, and the most I've seen offered was 1000 "delta" dollars. So, not even cash, but only good for future flights with tons of restrictions. As I've said in other posts, there should be no such thing as involuntary bumping - the airlines should have to keep upping the offer until they have enough volunteers.
Can't bump for crew (Score:5, Interesting)
250.2a Policy regarding denied boarding. In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall ensure that the smallest practicable number of persons holding confirmed reserved space [cornell.edu] on that flight are denied boarding involuntarily.
Obviously, IANAL, but reading the source code (the CFR), it appears they yanked this guy off to make room for flight crew. Do crew have a confirmed reserved space?
Re: (Score:3)
They could have hired a limo and had the four driven to their destination - it is only a four hour drive from Chicago to Indianapolis. (Assuming the limo cost $125/hr, and you had to pay for the empty return drive, that's less than $1,000.)
Offering cash wo
Article is Wrong, Man was Illegally Removed (Score:3)
Just because airlines and the TSA constantly break the law, does not make it their right.
Federal courts are constantly towing out FBI cases because of criminal acts FBI officers commit to get evidence.
For some reason airlines, the TSA and private guards that have no more legal power than you, or I are being tr
Re: (Score:3)
But do they come to your room, say sorry, but our employee has to spend the night here, pack up your bags and leave?
Numbers (Score:5, Insightful)
It may be less than 0.008% but it's still forty six thousand human beings.
Re: (Score:3)
I happily voluntarily deny boarding. Last time the benefit I got was worth far more than the cost of the ticket in the first place, not to mention the extra day as a tourist in London. Last time my girlfriend swapped a 4 hour delay in an Australian airport instead of a 4 hours delay in Dubai for her connecting flight, and in exchange had a first class ticket.
Not to mention that the practice of overbooking ensures fully booked flights which also help drive down the costs of tickets. Sure we could target 0%,
Re:Numbers (Score:5, Insightful)
That's good, and MOST of the time I'd happily be willing to accept a delay too. However, there are people who may be flying somewhere for a funeral. They may absolutely have to be back at work the next day or face termination. As the man in the latest United scam claimed (maybe truthfully, maybe not), they may be a doctor that has patients they must attend to.
The bottom line is that is there is something inherently just not right about a business being able to sell you a ticket on a plane that is taking off but then deny you a seat on that plane because they sold too many of them.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Really?
You're in that much of a hurry to see wife and kids? I mean, you have to live with and see them every day.....seems like any little breaks would be welcome.
Don't be an idiot. Any parent might have any number of obligations that would make it high priority to get back home. The spouse might have a trip of their own to make, there might be a family trip planned, there might be tickets for shows, concerts, plays, etc., made as a family, there might be school events or athletic events that the parent had promised to be present at, etc., etc. When you are a parent, your time is not entirely your own, and so you cannot give it away as freely as when you are unattach
Re: (Score:2)
I had a college professor who told us that if we did not hand in our final project at 9:00am on the appointed day, we would not get credit for it. No exceptions. If you were in a car accident, crawl to the class on bloody stumps to hand it in or find someone to do it for you, but there would be no leniency for a late submission. Period. And because he was clear about this from day one of the class, no one in his 30 years as a professor had ever tried to hand it in late and get credit.
I bring this up because
Re:Numbers (Score:5, Insightful)
It may be less than 0.008% but it's still forty six thousand human beings.
Also, denied boarding is a whole different ball game than being physically removed from the plane after already boarding. United should have either offered more compensation until somebody took the bait or they should have bumped one of the 4 UA employees that wanted to fly. I hope the guy that was dragged from the plane has a basis to sue because what happened is not OK.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Numbers (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
I assume they mean $800 + a ticket refund.
No, it was $800, a hotel for the night, and a seat on the next available airplane, which was at 3PM the next day. You accept the deal, you're not getting your money for the ticket back.
But at that point, I have to ask, "Couldn't the airline just send the employees to the destination using ANY OTHER MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION for that much money?"
That aircrew that hands you free drinks has a federal law limiting their duty day and mandating rest periods. Taking 6 hours to drive them to their destination almost certainly means they will violate either or both, making them unavailable for the flight they were trying to deadhead to.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
I don;t think he has the basis to sue. Once onboard an aircraft, the captain is in charge. He issued an instruction for that passenger to leave - the passenger disobeyed that order, so was at fault. Regardless of how s****y it may be for the airline to bump him from the flight, or the circumstances in which it happened, the passenger was guilty of failing to comply with the captain's instruction.
I imagine he could sue the airline for the way that the situation was handled, but the airline could equally w
Re:Numbers (Score:4, Insightful)
Then maybe the captain should be charged with the assault if you want him to be responsible. Removing someone is not the same as giving them a concussion and a number of other injuries.
Re: Numbers (Score:5, Interesting)
That correspondent is almost certainly wrong in law. The pilot has to have a valid legal reason for asking you to leave, which in this case he did not. Yes you can be arbitrarily denied boarding, but he was already boarded and addition the bumbing was for United employees not paying customers so bumbing him from the plane was a breach of contract, and up till the point he was forced off he was not disruptive. Being a pilot does not give you god like powers.
The most obvious was I can explain it would be if the pilot had come out and said get that black bastard of my plane to a person of African descent. Still think that would be legal?
the 4 UA employees that wanted to fly (Score:4, Interesting)
They were crew for a flight that would be cancelled if they weren't there. What this is, in addition to a PR foulup, is a logistics screwup. The crew should have been booked on a flight already.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Then the real solution is make compensation MUCH higher. Since the airlines apparently are making money off of overbooking (though how much I wonder since most tickets sold are non-refundable, so the seat is already purchased). I'd say let's make the minimum where the passenger can't get on another flight within two hours be $10,000, and in cash. Ban travel vouchers entirely.
Re: (Score:3)
The other three people didn't "take the offer", so much as they didn't refuse the offer and get dragged off of the plane. They weren't given an option; they were ordered to vacate the plane and given a voucher on the way out.
The $800 was offered for volunteers previously and nobody volunteered. These four passengers weren't given a choice.
Re: (Score:3)
The one I looked had gave the airline the right to deny boarding. Once you have taken your seat, you have boarded. Being removed (in plain English, if not at law) is not being denied boarding.
IANAL, and this is certainly not legal advice.
Market failure (Score:5, Interesting)
Security theater at the airports, outrageous fees, cramped seats, inadequate cleaning between flights. Why would anyone fly unless they absolutely had to?
Re:Market failure (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it usually works out just fine, and it's so incredibly fast compared to driving. Days turn into just a few hours. Fewer hotel nights means it's cheaper than driving too, sometimes enormously so.
If you're rich and can afford to drive everywhere because you don't mind more nights in hotels and there's no limit to the time you can be away, I understand why you don't fly. But when you look down on jetsetters, you're being an insensitive snob.
We jump through hoops like trained animals, no longer having the dignity of humans, and now from this story we see that it's unreliable and a carrier might not keep its word. Yet even still, it comes out on top. Look at it this way: Airplanes were such a great technological advancement, that we'll put up with so much bullshit.
Re: (Score:3)
Because it usually works out just fine, and it's so incredibly fast compared to driving. Days turn into just a few hours.
Sure, if you're talking long distances. And it really depends on your particular situation: Do you have a direct flight, or do you have connections? Do you live close to a major airport, or do you need to drive 90 minutes to get to one (and is it in the "right" direction)? How efficient are the security lines, etc. at your airport? How much time do you need to allow for traffic?
And what about your destination? How far is that from the airport? Do you need to pay for transportation while there? Havi
Re: (Score:3)
What the fuck are you talking about? Flying these days can only be explained as a perfect market forces at work and is as good or as bad an experience as you want to make it.
Want to fly across to the other side of Europe for little more than the cost of a local train ride to the airport without food, drink, or anything beyond a small backpack? You can do that.
Want to fly across to the other side of Europe with a suitcase, and lunch served with a bit of extra room? You can do that too.
Need to fly but don't k
Re: (Score:3)
Maybe you should realize that not all of the world is Europe.
Around here we have a government mandated duopoly on air travel. There are 2 airlines, with identical service and identical prices on all routes. The cost for a one hour flight is several hundred dollars, and includes no amenities, no luggage, and no knee room. The only other option is for the same flight to cost several thousand dollars for "business class".
As for trains... yeah... not even an option, there simply aren't any around here for anyth
Re: (Score:3)
In this case emergence [wikipedia.org] and not consumer choices that dictate the outcome. It is clearly against preferences of everyone who participates in flying. Call it prisoner's dilemma on a grand scale.
Preference for cheapest tickets at the t
This was a MASSIVE Customer Service Failure not... (Score:3)
an Overbooking issue.
If you want to talk about Airlines feeling they can manhandle passengers out of their seats - great, I think it needs to be discussed so airlines understand that wasn't acceptable.
But, I think everybody here understands why airlines overbook, so don't bother explaining.
Not an overbooking incident (Score:5, Informative)
Overbooking incidents are resolved at check-in counters. This is an incident of someone being removed from a plane to make way for employees. Not only is this not overbooking, but it's also a mindbogglingly dickish move by an airline to de-board someone already sitting and expecting to reach their destination, even more dickish that it wasn't voluntary at all.
I really wish I could boycot United, but as have already done so for years there's not much more I can do. Frankly these types of incidents only seem to happen with one carrier over and over again.
Last time I checked in at a KLM service desk they told me they were overbooked and they gave me the choice of flying 30min later and paid me €200 for my troubles. Quite a different response then "these people will need to get off the plane to make space for an employee of ours".
Re: (Score:2)
I adore KLM as an airline. With 50+ flights and only had issues once I'm fairly happy with how they handle things.
The one time it went to shit I missed my second leg flight to the US but got re-booked and handed a stack-o-euros with no mess.
Re:Not an overbooking incident (Score:4, Informative)
The mildly moronic part was not offering more money or saying "We're going to all sit here until someone gives up." The stupid part was choosing someone at random and demanding he give up his seat without listening to whether he absolutely needed to get back or had some flexibility. "I'm a doctor and I have patients I need to tend to" is a pretty fucking good excuse. Find some retiree or some asshole who sells cars or does computer stuff.
The part that was stupid even for a US airline company was using force to get him off rather than choosing someone else. The airline isn't his parents, the point shouldn't be to teach him to obey.
Re: (Score:2)
That is, there's actual competition on overseas routes, to a degree that really doesn't exist in the US domestic market. Thanks to airline consolidation, there are four major carriers, and they pretty much don't compete on many routes. Other airlines can get you there, but only with a connection or two, and a much longer flight. For instance, look at what airlines offer direct flights from Denver to Ch
Re: (Score:2)
" Not only is this not overbooking, but it's also a mindbogglingly dickish move by an airline to de-board someone already sitting and expecting to reach their destination, even more dickish that it wasn't voluntary at all."
I agree it was poorly handled. But the "employee" that needed to be on board was for 4 members of a flight crew who were to be working shortly after their arrival on ANOTHER flight which would have been delayed or cancelled -- which would have caused 100+ other passengers who were expeci
Re:Not an overbooking incident (Score:5, Interesting)
Overbooking incidents are resolved at check-in counters. This is an incident of someone being removed from a plane to make way for employees. Not only is this not overbooking, but it's also a mindbogglingly dickish move by an airline to de-board someone already sitting and expecting to reach their destination, even more dickish that it wasn't voluntary at all.
Exactly. People keep labeling this is an overbooking issue, but it's questionable whether that's really the case at all. And even if it was, it's likely that they didn't have the authority to remove him anyway.
Airlines have been granted limited authority by the Department of Transportation to deny boarding to confirmed passengers when they're overbooked. As you said, that sort of issue is handled at the check-in counter at the time of boarding, but if all of the confirmed passengers had already boarded and were in their seats, it should be self-evident that the plane wasn't overbooked, given that everyone was already in their seats. Moreover, even if the plane was overbooked, they still wouldn't have the authority to remove people from the plane, meaning that their only recourse would be to deny boarding to the passengers who hadn't boarded yet, namely their four employees. And really, that should have been their choice anyway, given that none of the employees needed to be at the destination until the next day and the destination was just a four-hour car ride away.
That the police went along with this is also appalling, given that they're supposed to be the sane ones who actually enforce the law. Yes, I know it's naive, but I've seen plenty of videos of law enforcement officers who've refused to obey whatever the hell a pissed off TSA agent is screeching at them to do, and have instead helped the passengers or visitors in going about their business (I seem to recall them even asking the passenger in one video if they wanted to press charges against the TSA agent, which shut that agent up immediately). What the officers did here was shameful.
Re: (Score:3)
Every Overbooked Seat is Paid For Twice (Score:2, Informative)
It should be noted that airlines will only oversbook a non-refundable seat/ticket.
A successful overbook is one where a seat is sold to two people and one of them does not show up. In this situation, the seat is paid for twice but only used once. This is free money for the airlines.
An unsuccessful overbook is where a seat is sold twice and they both show up. The second person to check in is not assigned a seat number and told they will get one at the gate. The airline then waits to see if another seat become
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Every Overbooked Seat is Paid For Twice (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
I have a PhD in physics.
disingeneous (Score:2)
"Empty seats" in the sense of the article are already profitable for the Airline, as someone has payed for the seat but didn't show. They don't "cost the airline money" except in the sense that they are a revenue opportunity to sell the seats of no-shows a second time.
Perhaps airlines should be forced to refund tickets if they manage to resell the seat - which given the way their pricing works they invariable do at a higher price anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
"Empty seats" in the sense of the article are already profitable for the Airline, as someone has payed for the seat but didn't show. They don't "cost the airline money" except in the sense that they are a revenue opportunity to sell the seats of no-shows a second time.
Perhaps airlines should be forced to refund tickets if they manage to resell the seat - which given the way their pricing works they invariable do at a higher price anyway.
I'm not defending the practice, but you are missing one scenario: lost connections. If my initial flight is late, and I miss my connection, then the seat I paid for on the 2nd flight is empty (assuming no overbooking happened). The airline still needs to get me to my final destination, which means they need to find a flight with an available seat. In this scenario, putting a paying customer in my "empty" seat actually means breaking even, since that customer basically covered the cost of my seat in the fina
Fallacy (Score:5, Insightful)
It's obvious why they overbook (Score:2)
It must be profitable even after compensating every one that they bump.
those goons that beat up that old man (Score:2)
Why? Abuse is now common. Also social inability. (Score:2)
United's CEO Oscar Munoz made the situation FAR worse by the pretend caring in what he said: United is investigating why authorities dragged a passenger off a flight -- here's what it found [businessinsider.com].
Quotes from the CEO:
"... we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding..."
It was not "apologetic". The passenger was alrea
Re: (Score:3)
While a lot of what you said is correct, it appears that flight 3411 is actually a Republic Airline [wikipedia.org] flight. And really, it appears it's not so much a mis-labeling as it is outsourcing/contracting. United is correct in sharing the blame for this in choosing to partner with them.
Because they can. (Score:2)
At [airline] we have you by the nuts, so fuck you.
Were the employee schedules really that tight? (Score:2)
What about standby? (Score:3)
I've never flown standby, so I'm not completely sure how it works, but I think it's a model that makes more sense.
Let's say a plane has 100 seats. The airline knows on average there will be 4% no-shows. What if, instead of selling 104 tickets at full-price, they sold 100 tickets at full-price, and 4 at a discount? Those people with the discounted tickets would usually get to fly, but would understand they might get bumped.
Overbooking is not even the problem (Score:3)
The problem with what happened with United wasn't overbooking. It was how they handled overbooking. They could have taken the seats at the gate for their people and decided who wouldn't board at the gate. But instead they let everyone board, let everyone sit down and THEN pulled out the "we need your seats" thing. THAT's the problem.
Or more specifically A problem because dragging someone out of the plane by their arms is ridiculous. He's not a sack of wheat. There were three dudes there and they couldn't grab his feet?
And that doesn't even touch the extreme escalation of violence visited upon a Doctor who had purchased a ticket and was already seated.
No they did many many things wrong on this flight but overbooking doesn't even come close to being one of the major ones.
So what if he's a doctor (Score:3)
As for the article, it has a wrong conclusion saying "if you face security then just comply or you get a fat lip". Well, everyone complying is the reason the police shoot unarmed people on the streets, passengers get dragged off the plane after paying full price for the ticket and so on. Compliance is not the way to deal with assholes like United.
New fare class (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You know... I would buy a non-refundable ticket in certain cases, even at a higher price... if it meant I could guarantee no bumping for that particular flight.
For some flights I care about it, for others the freebies they offer in exchange for a 6 hour delay getting to my destination are worth it.
Re:Why do airlines overbook? (Score:5, Insightful)
No one except airlines WANTS THEM TO OVERBOOK, because the only entity that overbooking benefits is the carrier. Overbooking does not benefit the customer (no, overbooking does not "help them keep fares low", competition does). The obvious solution in this case was to continue offering higher and higher incentives until they reached the point where people were willing to give up their seats. Dragging a bloody paying passenger off the plane is going to end up costing them far more than just raising the offer until they got enough volunteers.
In this case overbooking wasn't even necessarily the case. The plane was fully loaded when 4 employees showed up and told the gate agent that they needed to be on that plane, because it was the last plane to their destination that day. They weren't booked for the flight, they just showed up and said they needed to be on it. Overbooking doesn't even apply to this case. The problem is how United handled the situation, by deciding to call in the police and drag a paying customer off the plane instead of just offering whatever it took to get 4 people to agree.
This whole whine session is silly.
I'd like to see if you still feel that way if you decide that getting to your destination is worth more than $800 to you and instead the police come on board, bloody your mouth, and drag you off the plane.
Re:Why do airlines overbook? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Depends on the circumstances.
I've had to re-book more than once at the last minute during business trips, and when I did, they would re-arrange the schedule, leaving a seat open for someone else. Since they couldn't re-sell the now-open seat in the few hours before the plane actually takes off, it makes perfect business sense for them to have an overbooked ticket waiting to fill that seat. Happens way more often than you think (and not always for business reasons - a kid gets real sick the night before and
Re: (Score:2)
Typically for seats that allow re-booking they charge extra, that extra is meant to cover the cost of occasionally having an empty seat.
Some articles are saying these were actually United executives going to a meeting rather than flight crew.
Re: (Score:2)
So if you pre-order a device and don't come pick it up, do you expect them to burn it?
Re: (Score:2)
If you contact the airline, they will pretty much always credit the ticket price to another journey within 12 months, even if the ticket was in a non-refundable fare class.
Re: (Score:2)
I've never managed that in the UK / Ireland.
Re: (Score:2)
And yet they don't refund the tickets for the people who don't show up. What other industry is allowed to sell commodities twice? Usually that is considered fraud....
Typically, if you show up to the airport within two hours of the flight departure time they will rebook you on another flight for free. If you do not show up at the airport at all, and your ticket was non-refundable, you're screwed.
Re: (Score:2)
It still dumbfounds me that people/companies will spend a few hundred dollars then not show up. Granted many can get refunded/shuffled around, but still. If I spend $400 to go somewhere, I treat that as a contract between myself and the airline. You can be damn sure I'll be there.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
i've done this. fly somewhere for work but it takes more than you thought it would and you end up spending the night or having to take a later flight
one time i had a government ticket and just didn't show up and forgot the day i was supposed to fly back. two weeks later Delta gave me another ticket for no charge
Re:The four seats were used by crew, how was this (Score:5, Informative)
United should be fined hugely for this, the four removed should sue. The staff involved fired, the execs making that policy fired.
But nothing will happen, i normally fly them, but will look elsewhere.
Yes and it seems many others here are blindly commenting and don't understand what actually happened. This wasn't an overbooking scenario. This was a scenario where passengers had been cleared, boarded and seated. Then another flight crew needed to board to make a flight for the next day. No one volunteered, so they played Hunger Games with the passengers. One of the ones selected was a Dr that had patients to see in the morning and thus his refusal.
United Airlines then turned in to President Snow and had a 69 year old man beaten and drug, yes, drug, (not carried as some outfits want to say), off the plane over it.
United could have easily booked this crew later or sent them by other means. They chose to violently remove a 69 year old man like he was brandishing a weapon or threatening people.
So, people carrying on about overbooking can get bent as that's not what happened. This wasn't denial of boarding. It was violent eviction.
United is going to end up paying for this event, one way or another.
The Aviation Security officer has already been placed on leave and his outfit as publicly stated his actions were not in line with their policy (re: he's f*cked).
Now it's on to see how UA is going to handle this mess.
Re: (Score:3)
The "other means" would have cost the airline actual cash, the $1,000 airline credit/seat is essentially free.
It is a four hour drive (Chicago to Kentucky) - United should have hired a stretch limo to drive them the four hours to the KY airport, then the four hour return drive empty for less than $1,000.
Re:The four seats were used by crew, how was this (Score:5, Insightful)
The Aviation Security officer has already been placed on leave and his outfit as publicly stated his actions were not in line with their policy (re: he's f*cked).
Security and police are just about never f*cked. The first rule of a police state is that you don't throw the police under the bus. They may get bad press but where the rubber meets the road, or perhaps I should say where the baton meets the suspect, they still have free rein. Virtually all suspensions result in a slap on the wrist are are in effect paid vacations.
Re: (Score:2)
He was upgraded to a security risk.
Re:Slow day in tech, then? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, TFA is a bit off if they're referring to the United Airlines incident, since it wasn't simple overbooking (which would mean passengers would be denied at the gate). In that case it was four UA aircrew that needed to get a flight at the last minute, and UA decided that they needed someone to be voluntold off the plane itself.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The fair and most capitalist thing to do would be for the airline to simply have an in-cabin auction for your seat - have the captain announce higher and higher prices for your seat, and the first four call buttons to get pressed win the auction. (first N call buttons if a different number of seats than 4 are needed)
Thrown in a business class upgrade and I'm sure it wouldn't take long to get a few empty economy seats, and everyone's happy.
Re: (Score:2)
They did, the bidding stopped at $1,000/seat (in airline credit I assume).
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
And the law actually requires a minimum of $1,350 refund for the seat if forced off. The guy was still in the right to refuse to give up his seat at any price lower than that, and the Chicago police helped United Airlines violate Federal Law.
Re:Slow day in tech, then? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
It's the maximum compensation that the government can force them to pay to the complainant if a complaint goes to the government for resolution. They are not prohibited from paying more to avoid a complaint from going that far.
Re:Slow day in tech, then? (Score:4, Funny)
For 4000 dollars, they could have put all 4 employees on a chartered turboprop and had them in Louisville in 90 minutes.
For the amount of the resulting lawsuit or settlement they could have bought a Gulfstream to fly the 4 employees to anywhere.
not necessarily cash money (Score:3)
Someone on a reddit thread yesterday said that this happened to them, they were offered $600 to leave the plane. However when they did leave the plane, they discovered that the $600 was not actually CASH money but rather 12 $50 vouchers for air travel that could not be combined and expired one year from the date issued.
So yeah, people assume that this is all cash money being offered to the patrons but i bet it wasnt.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Is anyone asking the real question here? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Is anyone asking the real question here? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
those first three people decided not to question their selection to be #REACCOMODATED whilst the last man felt his opportunity cost was much more valuable than waiting an entire day
No, all of them felt the same way about leaving. Only one of them wanted to fight about it. I'm a little conflicted on this issue - the guy who we're all supporting here was clearly in the right, and many people would describe what he did as "sticking up for himself against an abusive company," but he did so at the expense of... how many other people on that plane?
It was a terribly self-centered act, and he's going to be richly rewarded for it. Meanwhile, the other three people who were just as inconveni
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
When I read a story like this on Slashdot, I expect to see comments by people who are insightful enough to understand the mathematics of booking passengers on flights.
I also enjoy seeing ACs post stupid comments so I can feel superior to them.
Re: (Score:2)
I hope we can agree that this is even worse than overbooking...
Re: (Score:3)
Clearly UA had no idea that UA staff were going to be needed to fly on a UA flight down to another airport in order to work on a scheduled UA flight.