India's Infosys To Hire 10,000 American Workers After Trump Criticism (bloomberg.com) 216
India's Infosys said it plans to hire 10,000 Americans in the next two years, following criticism from the Trump administration that the company and other outsourcing firms are unfairly taking jobs away from U.S. workers. From a report on Bloomberg: Infosys, which employs about 200,000 people around the world, will expand its local hiring in the U.S. while adding four hubs to research technologies such as artificial intelligence and machine learning. The first location will open in Indiana in August 2017 and is expected to create 2,000 jobs for American workers by 2021, the company said.
Yes! (Score:2, Redundant)
Re:Yes! (Score:4, Informative)
The "92 million unemployed Americans" was a number that right-wing echo chamber tossed about during the Obama Administration to argue that unemployment figures were wrong and Obama was doing absolutely nothing for one-third of America being unemployed. That number is true but misleading. The majority of those 92 million Americans are children, college students and senior citizens. Only ~6 million are unemployed adults looking for work. Trump is also doing absolutely nothing for those 92 million Americans.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/09/16/trumps-absurb-claim-that-92-million-americans-represent-a-nation-of-jobless-americans/ [washingtonpost.com]
As for coal mine jobs, Trump promised to bring them back. Those jobs are never coming back. Coal miners make nice props for ceremony signings of executive orders at the White House.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/climate/coal-jobs-prove-lucrative-but-not-for-those-in-the-mines.htm [nytimes.com]
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Oh sure, diplomats and envoys and negotiators for years have been trying to make changes here, but The Donald makes a single tweet and one of the largest companies in the world change directions. Genius! Amazing! Why did no one think of this approach before? Clearly this the best of all possible times.
10,000 new worker? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:10,000 new worker? (Score:4, Funny)
And i pity these workers all being employed to ring people up pretending to be Microsoft claiming their Windows PC are sending reports that it broken and needs fixing!!!
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Why not? Except don't start with IT worker. Start with people who barely have a high-school education, then educate/train them in IT. That's all you have to do - as long as they can punch a few keys in a keyboard, that's all you need.
That's about the quality of the people you get from these companies anyways. Add in a few of those signs that say "Work From Home! Earn $$$" and there you go.
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Start with people who barely have a high-school education, then educate/train them in IT.
I don't have a high school diploma. But I do have two associate degrees and a handful of certifications. I'm 20+ years into my technical career.
That's all you have to do - as long as they can punch a few keys in a keyboard, that's all you need.
That's fine for level-entry help desk positions. As people gain more experience, they can move into other areas like desktop support, PC deployments and data center operations. I'm currently doing InfoSec remediation.
That's about the quality of the people you get from these companies anyways.
From my experience with interviewing at a few Indian contracting agencies, they're looking for Americans to "diversify" their ranks and still do the
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"Planning" to hire 10.000 employees.
Just like I'm "Planning" to be a billionaire by the end of the year.
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Re:10,000 new worker? (Score:5, Interesting)
Sadly that sounds likely, although I'm having trouble imagining how they attempted to apply that much pressure in browbeating.
I went into the first interview expecting to be interviewed by the hiring supervisor and his manager at a small tech company. The hiring supervisor got called away, the manager didn't feel comfortable interviewing me by himself, and, BTW, the position pays $20 per hour. The interview got rescheduled. Second interview had the manager called away, the hiring supervisor didn't feel comfortable interviewing me by himself, and, BTW, the position pays $15 per hour. I walked out. The HR person spent a month calling me to see if I would be interested in the job at $10 per hour, as it wasn't likely that anyone else would hire me. Shortly thereafter I had three job offers to pick a new job from.
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Yeah, but then you have to live in Indianapolis...
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yet you actually have to make 80% more to actually be able to live in Chicago.
Not really. Chicago is less than 30% more expensive than Indianapolis. Housing may be nearly double the price, but your car / groceries / utilities / etc. are going to be similarly priced in both cities. Add in the intangible benefits of more culture / entertainment, better food, and overall more job opportunities, it's not surprising that major cities attract the best and brightest in our society.
Big cities are overrated (Score:2)
Chicago is less than 30% more expensive than Indianapolis.
That depends on what part you are living in. Here are some actual numbers [numbeo.com] on the subject. These are averages which may vary by specific location.
Simple fact is that the cost of living difference is substantial and wages often aren't enough higher in the bigger city to compensate.
Add in the intangible benefits of more culture / entertainment, better food, and overall more job opportunities, it's not surprising that major cities attract the best and brightest in our society.
People in big cities far too often seem to think they are better than the people who chose to avoid them. New Yorkers seem to be particularly full of themselves in my experience. Big cities do not universally attract the best an
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Big cities do not universally attract the best and brightest, merely a percentage of them and only for certain industries.
Of course they don't attract all of them, simply a greater percentage of them than smaller cities or rural areas. If you are an amazing doctor or engineer or lawyer, you are more likely to move to Chicago than Indianapolis.
Finance? Sure you probably want a big city. Agriculture? Not so much. Manufacturing? Depends on the product.
Certain industries in general tend to attract more capable people. This is basically just because of salary levels, but also to a lesser extent because of prerequisite ability to succeed in the industry. If you take the top 10% of nearly any high school graduating class, in urban or rural
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It's About Pay: Outsourcing to Insourcing (Score:5, Interesting)
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Anybody here who would work for Infosys?
They'll be lucky to get C student, recent college graduates, useless air thieves to apply. Apparently, just like in India.
Re:It's About Pay: Outsourcing to Insourcing (Score:5, Interesting)
Anybody here who would work for Infosys?
I used to work for Infosys a long time ago. I have to say that they are as dishonest as their reputation.
Re:It's About Pay: Outsourcing to Insourcing (Score:5, Interesting)
Anybody here who would work for Infosys?
They'll be lucky to get C student, recent college graduates, useless air thieves to apply. Apparently, just like in India.
I don't even work for companies that use Infosys, let alone work for Infosys directly. I'm not opposed to using consultants, but Infosys, Tata, and WiPro are blacklisted for me. I find it hard to believe I would have executive level buy in to create quality enterprise software systems if they are already willing to use these companies. For a while I just used this as a red flag to investigate the company further, but after consistently being disappointed with what I found I just treat the usage of these outsourcing shops as a complete deal breaker.
I am a big fan of the idea of the H1B program and believe immigrants are the primary thing which has made and continues to make our country great, but companies like Infosys are a blight on our society with no redeeming value I can see.
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A very smart stance I would say. I also like your last bit since not everybody is aware enough to realize immigrants that are coming in to stay here forever and to help the US become better are great people. I will quote:
I am a big fan of the idea of the H1B program and believe immigrants are the primary thing which has made and continues to make our country great, but companies like Infosys are a blight on our society with no redeeming value I can see.
Visa != Immigrant [Re:It's About Pay: Outsourcing (Score:2)
Most visa workers are not immigrants. Some may become immigrants, sure, but they are two different things.
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Most visa workers are not immigrants. Some may become immigrants, sure, but they are two different things.
In January 2010 there were 12.6 million permanent visa (green card) holders in the US. (source [migrationpolicy.org]) In 2013 there were about 1.4 million temporary visa holders working in the US. (source [epi.org])
While not all green card holders are working, it is clear that most visa workers are immigrants. Probably around 80-90%. All temporary visa holders are not immigrants, by definition, but that is clearly not what you meant since you used the word "most". Then again I don't think you knew what you meant, or understand the actual
Re:It's About Pay: Outsourcing to Insourcing (Score:4, Insightful)
I worked for a competitor - Keane, which was bought by an Indian Outsourcer but kept the keane name. They were bought by NTT as I was leaving.
It was a medium sized insurance company. They didn't like paying their IT staff the salaries they earned, let alone the generous retirement package they gave to everyone. They fired the IT staff and Keane hired them back, cutting the fat in the process.
They would hire graduates in India at 1/10th the salary, but then they would need to employ 10 of them to do the same amount of programming, and it was always poor, and I mean always.
On the infrastructure side we might find one good candidate out of 20, and of course the minute that person could find a better job in India they were gone, and not that I blame them.
The Business suffered, and the whole thing cost far more money than what they started with, but the line of CEOs, CFOs and CIOs that made the decision and stuck by it all left with very large salaries and golden parachutes, only to go off to the next financial services firm and do the same thing again. Its all a total shame. No one saves money on this stuff, it just sounds good.
Meanwhile salaries at Keane were completely stagnant. They would implement some bonuses for the very high performers that were onshore, but there were zero salary increases. I and other high performers could get better jobs elsewhere, and we did, leaving the company with only people they didn't really want.
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Companies who are quality-ignorant software cheapskates will probably be cheapskates with citizen labor also and suck no matter what, and end up later throwing yet more labor into the pile to put out fires they created themselves. Eventually it may sink the company. But in the shorter term, PHB's will do PHB things.
Re:It's About Pay: Outsourcing to Insourcing (Score:5, Insightful)
Never work for insurance companies or any other business that _sells_ pure commodities. They are run by and for the benefit of marketers, as that is all that matters.
When IT is just overhead, you get treated like pure overhead. Work somewhere that you job actually makes a difference.
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You would be surprised at what companies hire Tata/Infosys/etc. I remember a recent interview I had last year with a small company where the VP told me that security had no ROI. When I asked him what he would do if/when a breach happened, he said he would just call Accenture, they come in with their battalion of consultants, get everything fixed, and business would continue.
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Basically, he came right out and said: 'I don't have a clue about anything related to computers or consultancies...'
That VP is going to get the rogering of a lifetime. If he ever calls Accenture for anything...he'll be bleeding from the asshole as well as several stab/bullet wounds used by consultants that prefer 'fresh holes' for fucking.
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The H1B program is specifically designed to prevent the workers from staying any longer than the particular employer needs them. I'd be all for a program that allows skilled works to immigrate, but H1B is about making them indentured servants for a company with no negotiating leverage -- not making them citizens.
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The H1B program is specifically designed to prevent the workers from staying any longer than the particular employer needs them. I'd be all for a program that allows skilled works to immigrate, but H1B is about making them indentured servants for a company with no negotiating leverage -- not making them citizens.
Of course the US *already* has a program that allows skilled workers to immigrate w/o bein indentured servants. It's called a green card. Green cards even have different preferences for highly skilled employees (e.g., EB1, EB2), and even not-so skilled ones (EB-3).
The "problem" is that green cards are geographically constrained. If you are from any country but China, India, and the Philippines, you don't even need to mess with an H1b, just apply for a green card immediately. The "problem" is only exper
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Being a fan of the idea doesn't seem to garner much hatred.
Liking the current implementation doesn't either. Just derision and/or pity.
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Anybody here who would work for Infosys?
Well, if I wanted the consultancy lifestyle and valued money over satisfaction then yes. I have skills they desperately need and they'd pay handsomely for them.
I just don't hate myself that much yet. Maybe when I'm ready for a 3-4 year earnings burst ahead of retirement.
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Consutancies...hire competent people and pay handsomely?
Why would they do that when they could hire an incompetent recent college graduate and charge their clients the same rate. You'd bill fewer hours getting it done than the incompetent would bill not getting it done.
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Well, you send the competent people in, they wow the decision makers, provide actual thought leadership, insight and competence, and win the business.
Then you roll in the cheap nasty clowns and charge Cirque du Soleil prices for them.
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They already have that one competent person. Now they want cheap.
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Your cheap, they might actually hire you. You're not competent are you? That would be a deal breaker for them.
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C student used to mean you were average. These days I wonder though, because the way some of my friends act around their kids anything less than a 4.2 GPA is failure.
Let's say C is below average grades for a student. Ok, so why act like below average wages isn't fair?
Americans need good paying jobs, but perhaps not everyone is qualified to have the best job.
Typo (Score:5, Funny)
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Lip service (Score:3)
It's like Trump saying that he will actually donate money he raised for veterans, to veterans. Did not happen until somebody found out that he was not doing it and shamed him into following through.
These "commitments" from Infosys are about the same quality. If there is no law behind it, and they can bribe Trump by buying a condo in his tower at high price, then the matter is settled.
Some of you are under the illusion that Trump is working for you. When it is clear that he is working for himself and couldn't give two hoots about you.
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It's like Trump saying that he will actually donate money he raised for veterans, to veterans. Did not happen until somebody found out that he was not doing it and shamed him into following through.
These "commitments" from Infosys are about the same quality. If there is no law behind it, and they can bribe Trump by buying a condo in his tower at high price, then the matter is settled.
Some of you are under the illusion that Trump is working for you. When it is clear that he is working for himself and couldn't give two hoots about you.
Or simply lay them off once the spotlight is no longer on them. Now, if the H1B laws were changed to limit the number any one company of nation can have then we might see some substantive sustainable changes.
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And your racism leaks through. Limit on one company makes sense but limit on one country?
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And your racism leaks through. Limit on one company makes sense but limit on one country?
I said that because otherwise the company will simply create wholly owned entities to skirt the requirements. I see that in cases where a company grows to big to be considered a small business and simply creates a new sub to qualify for set asides; the limit would apply to all nations and not target any one and thus prevent companies from gaming the system, but thanks for playing the racism card.
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Some of you are under the illusion that Trump is working for you. When it is clear that he is working for himself and couldn't give two hoots about you.
Help me understand how that is any different than any president in the last 50 years. Damn the Democrats for rigging the primaries. Given the choice between two highly toxic candidates a protest vote is not unreasonable.
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> Given the choice between two highly toxic candidates a protest vote is not unreasonable.
Regardless of how much anybody may like Hillary. Comparing her to Trump is unfair. If you think Trump and Hillary are "equally" bad for leading this country, then our thought process is different enough that a discussion on any topic would be a useless exercise.
They knew they were wrong (Score:3)
Infosys is one of those companies abusing H1B visas, aren't they?
They're just trying to get the scrutiny off themselves?
and from the other side of the debate... (Score:2)
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Well on the question of qualification, they are able to do the job which means the qualifications they have are enough for the job and they had overqualified folks doing mundane IT jobs. If a PhD works as a babysitter and is somehow able to convince the parents to pay 50 dollars an hour and then the parent replaces them with a 20 dollar an hour babysitter, the PhD really has no right to complain. The PhD would be better off doing something which is actually worth 50 dollars and which the teenager cant do.
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..."Just following orders" is not a good defense in court.
Agreed, and if Indian companies are violating US labor laws there should indeed be consequences but I thought for this discussion we were talking about legal hires. Illegal hires is a whole 'nother matter :)
I can only speak to my own experience but we're seeing a fairly large departure of talent mainly because the company doesn't quite pay market and even the H1B holders are moving on to greener pastures. I've been here for five years and am paid slightly above market, but my company has decided that em
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all the employees of these outsourcing companies have valid credentials?
That's one place I always felt like I was at a disadvantage relative to H1B's - I did my undergrad at a relatively no-name college here in the US (it was cheap and close to home). Now, whenever somebody reads my resume and doesn't see MIT, Stanford, or Harvard on it, they figure, "never heard of it, probably a degree from a diploma mill". On the other hand, who the hell, in America, knows the difference between the University of Hyderabad and the University of Mumbai?
Re:and from the other side of the debate... (Score:5, Interesting)
I think you can blame those guys. It's not "just" responding to an RFP. Because of my work title, I get marketing and sales calls from the business end of these companies all the time (they want to convince me I need to put out an RFP, and that they can help write it). Trying to game the sales/business process isn't new, and could be considered firmly American. Where they lose me are the arguments that engineering labor is a commodity and that my business culture is less important than labor cost.
Now, keep in mind that I have never asked for anything from them. They come to me and my business partners making these arguments early and often to get us thinking about engineering a certain way. Enough effort like this can shift the standards in a field. They have made a concerted effort to set the standard for software to treat most programmers as commodities. Ultimately this is the problem. The standards they set for the field culturally and economically are not in the best interests of either the workers or the owners.
Also, they make it harder for me to get my PhD scientists H1-Bs when they need them.
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Accenture is an Irish company [wikipedia.org]. It has about 33% of its workforce as Indian based labor, 12% United States, and 12.5% Filipino. Since the company is a global operation one could argue that they hire plenty of US Americans. Compared to Wipro and Infosys, both India based companies, Accenture operates under a different business model. Its heritage also stems from a US based company. IBM is a better example of a competitor and business model.
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I'm an American working for an Indian company - one of Infosys' competitors. You really can't blame the Indian companies as it's the onshore CIO who's outsourcing this stuff and the executive team who makes the decision to outsource to offshore. I've said it a buncha times - all we did was respond to an RFP. It's not Infosys' fault - since the standard of living is lower in India than it is here salaries are also lower. If you don't want Infosys, Wipro, Accenture and the like running your IT perhaps it's the American companies that need to consider hiring American. The other thing is that if offshore resources arrive here on an H1B visa they're free to seek other employment. IME onshore salaries are generally competitive or you lose people.
Great point. They could also actually create an in house IT org staffed with people who actual have a stake in the company's future. Anecdotally, I was talking to someone who was involved in an offshoring "train your replacement" effort. They trained the replacements on the exact procedures, which would work in 10% of the cases. They figured the offshore staff could learn on their own how to handle the other 90% once they were gone and let the company deal with the fallout. They were in compliance with the
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You really can't blame the Indian companies as it's the onshore CIO who's outsourcing this stuff and the executive team who makes the decision to outsource to offshore.
No, I really can blame both. If someone pays a hit-man to kill his spouse, I want both of them to be punished. The hit-man certainly shouldn't be able to claim he was just responding to an RFP.
In the case of Infosys, they are even more complicit since their marketing and sales claim they are providing a quality service when in fact they are preying on either inept management or ineffectual board / shareholder governance.
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Re:No...hell no. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope thats not how international business works. Union Carbide broke Indian safety laws and caused a gas leak which killed more people than Saddam ever did in his Chemical Weapons campaigns. Instead of standing trial the US embassy spirited out the Union Carbide execs in the middle of the night on a plane chartered for the embassy. Govts. support their multinationals even when they play hardball overseas. Indian govt has made it very clear they see the H1B as a trade issue and not an immigration issue and any restrictions on H1B and L1 will be retaliated on with tariffs on American goods being exported to India. e.g. India can do a China and ban Facebook, Google, Amazon from India. Local alternatives will grow (its not like Indians cant code. Most of the Facebbok,Google and Amazon code is written by Indians anyway). Facebook has more Indian users than the entire adult population of USA so its not a trivially small market.
India does not because it has free trade agreements with US. USA will not hamper the export of software dev services by messing with H1B because the tech lobby in the US does not want to be shut out of exporting services to India.
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Nope thats not how international business works. Union Carbide broke Indian safety laws and caused a gas leak which killed more people than Saddam ever did in his Chemical Weapons campaigns. Instead of standing trial the US embassy spirited out the Union Carbide execs in the middle of the night on a plane chartered for the embassy. Govts. support their multinationals even when they play hardball overseas.
What you mean is that elites look out for their own. I doubt the average citizen would care if a high level executive responsible for criminal level neglect was punished. The elite on the other hand do care and will bend the rules to protect their own no matter what. The sooner we get past arguing about social issues of little consequence the sooner we can get to the things of huge consequence - like a declining middle class and almost unparalleled inequality. This is why I consider SJWs the useful idio
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The sooner we get past arguing about social issues of little consequence
I wouldn't necessarily say the social issues are of no consequence, but they're certainly of no consequence to the elite. The elite do not give a fuck if abortion is legal or not. They are smart enough to avoid unwanted pregnancies, and abortions are never unavailable if you have enough money.
This is why I consider SJWs the useful idiots of the 1%.
Undeniably. If I were an evil capitalist oppressor and I were worried poor people might actually threaten my cheddar with all this talk about "income inequality" and "the gap between CEO pay and worker pay" the way I'
Misdirection (Score:5, Interesting)
When they "discover" that they cannot hire/lure 2000 tech workers in/to Indiana, they will make the claim the indeed there is a tech labor shortage in the US.
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When they "discover" that they cannot hire/lure 2000 tech workers in/to Indiana, they will make the claim the indeed there is a tech labor shortage in the US.
Oh I thought they were just going to change the name of Bangalore to Indiana or something!
It's a start, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems like Infosys is trying to get ahead of any criticism regarding the way they use the H-1B program. I do systems integration work so we work with a wide range of these companies. I've worked with people and software from Infosys and TCS as well as the lower-tier guys like Mindtree and NIIT. The problem is that even if you bring the work to somewhere like Indiana, you can't change the fundamental business model and so you'll still get less than optimal service.
All of these consulting firms, whether they're body shops like Infosys and TCS, or white-shoe management consulting firms, operate on a very familiar business model:
- Rely on a gold-plated sales team and rockstar consulting team to sell the dream and come up with the initial proposal
- Once the deal is signed, replace the rockstars with fresh grads or less-than-rockstar experienced consultants for the client-facing stuff, like collecting requirements or delivering PowerPoints.
- In the case of an outsourcing, send in a group to collect all the information about the company's business processes. Body shops sending the work offshore typically use their H-1Bs for this task, while the fancy consulting firms fly in the graduating class of the Ivy League business schools; it's a very common first job for that crowd.
- Send everything that actually involves work offshore or to other cheap "delivery centers" to maximize the profit on the deal
The problem is that whether these cheap delivery centers are offshore or onshore, I think they'll have big problems staffing them with qualified people. Consulting firms squeeze every last dime out of outsourcing deals because they have to break even...and in many cases they have to support a huge raft of executive salaries with big expense accounts on top of that. Consulting firms think nothing of flying senior people in from wherever, for months at a time on full reimbursement, and their customers end up paying for that. When you get down to the people who would be working in Infosys's Indiana office, they're going to try to pay minimum wage or slightly above because the entire model is making the actual work cheap while putting a good face on for the customer.
I don't think I'd like to work there, simply because they have a reputation among experienced IT people and developers. Just because you move the people here doesn't mean the model changes. It will still be a body shop mentality where you're cranking out random Java or .NET code for some corporate website or managing a company's IT systems poorly from remote. At the very least, however, it is domestic entry level work for newbies. Hopefully those newbies will endure a year or two in the middle of nowhere, then use the experience to move on.
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If the work is critical it does not get outsourced. If it gets outsourced its not critical. Why would you use anything but fresh graduates for non critical work?
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If the work is critical it does not get outsourced. If it gets outsourced its not critical.
Is that a fact?
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There's plenty of American consulting firms hiring. I can't see why they would choose Infosys. Maybe a college grad that didn't know any better. The minima they would pay an H1B is 60K. Which is similar to a college grad. I shudder to think of the bad habits they'll pick up and having Infosys on the resume may not be the best thing for the career.
A clever stragety (Score:2)
WOW (Score:2)
Too little, too late. Good bye Infosys
never again for me! (Score:2)
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yeah, but of course.... (Score:2)
Hiring 10,000 American workers is fine but (Score:2)
I see their influence... (Score:2)
Prepare for a disappointment (Score:3)
It was not a good experience.
Any of them the long-termers that could use it? (Score:2)
It's one thing to just poach staff, but Infosys would have to do (better) for citizens what it did for H1-b's - train and place displaced individuals with employers.
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Re:Trump (Score:5, Informative)
That's the weird thing about the Trumpster. He's a big talker and most of the things that he says are BS, but he's probably made more progress with getting companies to bring US jobs back to this country than the Obama administration did in the last 4 years.
That doesn't mean that I like him or his policies, but I have to give credit where it's due.
Except the jobs are still leaving, based on Trade Adjustment numbers some 10,000 will have left in his first 100 days. While there have been a few headline grabbing saves to which I'll give him credit, he's trying to stop the tide from going out by yelling at it and threatening to pee in it if it doesn't stop. Here's a link from CNN: http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/2... [cnn.com]
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You say that, but there was more job growth per quarter under Obama than there has been under Trump. I mean I'm not convinced that a single quarter, his first, is legit to judge him by but since you are I don't really see how the numbers can be in his favor.
Trump hasn't brought jobs to the US (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the weird thing about the Trumpster. He's a big talker and most of the things that he says are BS, but he's probably made more progress with getting companies to bring US jobs back to this country than the Obama administration did in the last 4 years.
Trump hasn't brought any meaningful number of jobs back to the US. He has however falsely taken credit for a bunch of decisions [nbcnews.com] he had effectively nothing to do with. He certainly hasn't done more than Obama because he has done a reasonable approximation of nothing.
Trump's whole promise to bring back manufacturing jobs is based on a false premise. The only way to bring back substantial numbers of manufacturing jobs to the US would be for wages to fall relative to elsewhere. US manufacturing is alive and well but it's not labor intensive manufacturing. We make jumbo jets, not happy meal toys. The only way you get massive number of assembly line workers back to work is to drop wages by a LOT. Since that won't happen, Trump is telling yet another lie.
That doesn't mean that I like him or his policies, but I have to give credit where it's due.
When he actually does something to deserve credit then you should start doing that. No credit due so far.
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The only way to bring back substantial numbers of manufacturing jobs to the US would be for wages to fall relative to elsewhere.
Or for the dollar to fall. But that would be bad for WalMart and others who manufacture in China.
Labor intensive manufacturing is gone (Score:3)
Or for the dollar to fall. But that would be bad for WalMart and others who manufacture in China.
The dollar falling would make imports more expensive and exports cheaper but it won't bring more than a marginal number of labor intensive manufacturing jobs back to the US unless it falls by scary huge amounts. The US dollar would have to positively plummet to make it worth the effort to bring that manufacturing back to the US. The economic hardship that would result in the interim would be horrifying. A slightly weaker dollar is not necessarily bad but for it to fall enough to make it worthwhile to bri
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We still have a huge and growing manufacturing economy but like farming it employs a relatively small percent of the population and it is likely to shrink further as a percent of the total workforce.
True, and that's the hard part. We talk about "the economy" like there's a single number that describes how all of us are doing. But as you say, we can have a great manufacturing sector without employing all that many people. That's why we need to talk about UBI or some other way to manage a society where we can support everyone with the labor of a relative few.
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Worse career? How about CEO of a startup who's idea that you stole from a college roommate that takes millions and squanders it to produce nothing tangible and somehow convince people that it is now a necessary part of the infrastructure. Then claim they are not a media company but will make it their life mission to eliminate all but the truth. Now that would be a ridiculous unrewarding job.
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Or all the mentioned. Remember not all states increased the minimum wage.
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and be willing to work 60 hours a week for 50K
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My in-laws are from Tamil Nadu and Kerala; My F-I-L speaks Tamil, some hindi and of course, English.
My m-i-l spoke Malayalam, and English. Now she also speaks Tamil.
Obviously the common language between them was English.
While some of my other Indian friends blast the english, these 2 speak of the fact that the English at least established a unified language, though these days, the gov wants hindi to be the official language.
Re: Pence Country FU (Score:2)
Re: Pence Country FU (Score:2)
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Haven't they heard there's an IT skills shortage? That's why we have all these H1Bs, right?
There are two trends defining the IT shortage in 2030: the baby boomers are retired and foreign workers will be going home. Fewer students are studying computers to replace workers who are retiring. With Trump in the White House, foreigners are getting the heck out of the country. For those of us who positioned are careers for 2030, lots of money to be made.
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Fewer students are studying computers to replace workers who are retiring.
Gee maybe they should be treating the people well that are in the industry now, and then that problem goes away. Companies seem to pay lawyers a lot and I never hear of a shortage there.
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Companies seem to pay lawyers a lot and I never hear of a shortage there.
The US has a glut of lawyers who can't find work to pay back their student loans.
https://www.edsurge.com/news/2017-04-25-the-canary-in-the-law-school-coal-mine [edsurge.com]
Simply put, disruption is lessening the need for lawyers, which means law schools are producing too many lawyers for positions that increasingly do not exist. At Whittier, only 30 of the 141 graduates in 2015 had gained full-time employment that required passing the bar. According to the New York Times, Whittierâ(TM)s graduates last year had an average of $179,000 pre-interest debt. This will not reverse.
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Note, I'm not painting all older workers with the same brush -- there is a HUGE difference between someone who keeps their skills sharp and someone who hasn't learned anything new since they started in the job.
I had a former college roommate who graduated as an Electrical Engineer in the mid-1990's, got a MBA after the dot com bust, and currently does IT Support that pays significantly less than being EE. He's mad at me because I make more money than him and he can't pay off his student loans. As I told him before, I never went into debt for my education, I deliberately went into IT Support as a career and I didn't wash out as an EE.