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US To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights From Europe (thedailybeast.com) 435

An anonymous reader shares an article: The Department of Homeland Security will ban laptops in the cabins of all flights from Europe to the United States, European security officials told The Daily Beast. An official announcement is expected Thursday. Initially a ban on laptops and tablets was applied only to U.S.-bound flights from 10 airports in North Africa and the Middle East. The ban was based on U.S. fears that terrorists have found a way to convert laptops into bombs capable of bringing down an airplane. It is unclear if the European ban will also apply to tablets. DHS said in a statement to The Daily Beast: "No final decisions have been made on expanding the restriction on large electronic devices in aircraft cabins; however, it is under consideration. DHS continues to evaluate the threat environment and will make changes when necessary to keep air travelers safe."
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US To Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights From Europe

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  • by Austerity Empowers ( 669817 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:03PM (#54395195)

    There are plenty of reasons not to fly, this is the second best one yet (being beaten by the airline for a ticket you paid good money for is #1, not sure how that will be topped).

    • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:31PM (#54395481)
      Back in the day, flying was one of the few times the traveling businessman got to him(her)self. No computer to work on, no phone calls to make or receive. Then came laptops making it possible to do work on the plane, then in-flight phone calls, and now wireless Internet on flights.

      Banning laptops would mean that the business traveler once again legitimately can't get any work done while flying, and has a good reason not to be reachable for the 8-10 hours of the flight (no computer = no real reason to pay for in-flight wifi). Nothing to do but take some time off work, kick back, relax, and catch a movie or two.
      • Eh? Back when portable computers came with an implicit assumption that you have a towing hitch there was paperwork. It was work, and it was on paper. I'm not that decrepit and I've spent the odd train journey trying to threeconcile timesheets, invoices & bank statements, reading bastarding bug reports written by bugbrained bastards and the like.

      • Reading and movies are things passengers could do on tablets. If these go too, you just have to hope the inflight entertainment will work. The way service is going these days, fat chance.

      • by Barnoid ( 263111 )

        True, but what about the all the travelers who have no checked luggage because they don't want to wait for an hour to get it back at the destination (if at all) ?

        I often visit the US for 2-3 days to attend conferences with no other luggage than a small carry-on backpack. Depending on the location, the flight takes between 8 and 12 hours - I am definitely not interested in watching 5 movies back-to-back.

    • I hear the Titanic is setting sail from South Hampton next April...
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Here's another reason: every plane will now have cargo holds full of potentially damaged lithium batteries that have been thrown around by baggage handlers. Don't count on the fire suppressant system to save you, it's completely ineffective against lithium battery thermal runaways.

  • by mishehu ( 712452 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:04PM (#54395203)
    We're all made to board nude and chained to our seats and made to row across the ocean? As it is, I'm just waiting for them to announce "credible" evidence that ISIS has converted baby formula into a bomb capable of bringing down an airliner...
    • by ilsaloving ( 1534307 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:34PM (#54395499)

      Oh please, don't be so hyperbolic. Intravenous sedatives would work just fine without the additional weight all those chains would require. As an added bonus, the airlines would save a fortune, not needing to cook and carry all those meals and drinks. And they wouldn't have to deal with unruly and ungrateful passengers that demand to sit in the seats they paid for.

      All they'd have to do is having the plane crew walk around now and then, poking the passengers with sticks.

  • by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:06PM (#54395209)
    "Have you not considered how much easier it is to control a walking population?"
  • So... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:09PM (#54395237)
    Is there actionable intelligence to back up this ban or is this an attempt to whitewash the racist origins of the original anti-Muslim ban by including Europe?
    • There are actual terrorists here in Europe, and a couple of sympathizers who might become terrorists. If there is a credible threat from the Middle East, then that threat extends to Europe as well. I'd like to know how credible this threat is to begin with.
    • Is there actionable intelligence to back up this ban...

      Even if there is actionable intelligence for the plan to work the terrorists have to be able to get the explosive filled laptop past security. If they can do get explosives past inside a laptop case why can't they do the same using clothes, books, shoes etc.? ...and if they can do that unless you ban all electronics you still have a major security problem for which the only solution is background checks for all passengers.

      Requiring laptops to be put in the hold also increases the danger of an unnoticed

  • Wasn't this just a ban on Samsung laptops?
    • by Calydor ( 739835 )

      Yeah, but going specifically for the known problem is politically incorrect, so they have to ban all laptops instead of just the ones that might blow up.

  • Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Areyoukiddingme ( 1289470 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:12PM (#54395265)

    Is DHS really this easy to manipulate? And are they really this stupid? If a laptop shell packed with explosives is enough to "bring down an airplane" (and with the right explosive, it certainly is)(but it would have to be packed with explosive, in which case what's all that swabbing and x-raying of passengers for if it couldn't detect that modification?), how does having it in the cargo hold help? It still makes a giant hole in the fuselage and down goes the plane.

    I guess my real question is, are people stupid enough to be convinced by this security theater? And then I realize P.T. Barnum was right: you can't go broke overestimating people's stupidity.

    • Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by bluefoxlucid ( 723572 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:25PM (#54395421) Homepage Journal

      Congressmen are basically stupid, scared children. They've got a surprising amount of shit to sift through, no bandwidth, and sheer impulse to run on; and they have to weigh in as experts on every issue, regardless of timeline or personal understanding. When national security, Internet crimes, or child pornography come up, they can't even understand what's possible and what's just nutty; they see the maximum threat, and they respond by screaming and flailing.

      One day, I want to get myself voted into the House largely so I can respond to any topic that's not central to my interests with blunt detachment and input that's given on the stated condition that my understanding of the topic is limited and my interest is largely in bothering people with questions nobody's thought to ask. For most of it, I can cite firm attention to economics and risk as a primary reason to not take action for trivial things that might be real and scary, but also unlikely to happen with any frequency or to any great severity.

      • Re: Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Matt.Battey ( 1741550 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:34PM (#54395503)

        I think you're right about being scared children and seeing the maximum threat.

        But, I think you give them too much credit. The only threat they are scared of is being voted out of office. No one ever got voted out of office for protecting someone's safety, but the first time you pass legislation that protects liberty, and some one gets a skinned knee, well the you're outa there buddy.

        Even the personal liberty screamers in Congress never get any bills passed to ensure privacy and liberty. To much chagrin, it takes an action by a judge appointed for life (personal survival always trumps the greater good).

      • by bungo ( 50628 )

        Congressmen are basically stupid, scared children.

        No, I think you're quite wrong. I've never met any, but from what I've seen and read, there are quite a lot of intelligent, rational people in Congress. Many appear to be highly qualified in areas like law.

        It appears that instead, the do pander to the electorate and are concerned to appear to be weak on terrorists (or crime, or foreigners, or commies, or whatever the next scare is).

        The problem is that the people who elect Congress are on who average stupid scared children, or at least outnumber the intellig

    • Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mellon ( 7048 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:31PM (#54395475) Homepage

      The theory is that if you press the laptop up against the fuselage in the passenger cabin, you can bust a big enough hole to bring the airplane down; if it's in the hold, there's no opportunity to do that.

      • Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Gr8Apes ( 679165 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:46PM (#54395613)

        The theory is that if you press the laptop up against the fuselage in the passenger cabin, you can bust a big enough hole to bring the airplane down; if it's in the hold, there's no opportunity to do that.

        So you're stating that all that scanning, "nude" photographing and feeling up crap that makes you arrive at the airport 2 hours early is completely ineffective?

      • by gfxguy ( 98788 )
        In fact, I saw a show that had a segment about the cargo containers they use in planes (and this was a LONG time ago, maybe some point after Pan Am flight 103). They are supposed to suppress the damage caused by a cargo area explosion. When was the last time we heard of any such successful bombing?
        • I saw a program where they did some experiments, it was just after the shoebombers farcical attempt.

          IIRC the conclusion was that it might maybe - with a fair wind and if the gods wish it - puncture the pressure hull, but not catastrophically.

      • A big laptop weights about a killogram.
        My Dell here is close to 2kg.

        If that is filled with C4, it does not matter where it explodes ... the plane is toast.

    • IIRC, it had something to do with setting off the explosives. I've no idea how hard it is to detect explosives disguised as a battery, but apparently it is pretty hard to disguise an ignition circuit on the x-ray. If you have the explosives with you in the cabin, you don't need that circuit.
    • Not only would a laptop packed with explosives still bring down a plane while in the cargo hold, but anything else at least the approximate size of a laptop would do as well. So are they planning to ban anything laptop-sized or larger?

      • Has it ever occurred to you that they can subject baggage to more stringent screaming?

        You can use manual searching, stronger X-Rays and radiation to detect explosives, insert them into vacuum chambers to set off pressure sensitive triggers and a whole host of other techniques to catch explosives before they get on board. They also can take more time than would be convenient when screening people and their carry-ons.

    • The argument I heard was that explosive carrying capacity is low, since the payload needs to be concealed. Thus, it could breach the fuselage if pressed against it when detonated but is unlikely to do so from the cargo hold. Either because the cargo hold is reinforced or because odds are it won't be close enough to the outer wall of the aircraft.

      I think all this is an over reaction, but the above is how the thinking process apparently goes.

    • Re:Really? (Score:5, Informative)

      by rahvin112 ( 446269 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @05:53PM (#54396627)

      It doesn't need to be full, it just needs enough explosives that if pressed against the hull and detonated that it would rip a hole in the fuselage. The information I saw said that they had figured out how to cut a chunk of the battery out and fill it full of some explosive that's been shaped into a shaped charge, set one of the keys or switchs to detonate it.

      The laptop would turn on a function like normal and would explode with enough force to breach the fuselage if pressed against the wall before being detonated. This arrangement was viewed to be virtually undetectable without disassembling the laptop. Experts that had reviewed the plans they recovered believed this was not only possible but that the groups in question were actively building these bombs. The crucial weakness is that the bomb wouldn't be strong enough to breach the fuselage if it wasn't pressed against the wall, so all you need to do is ban laptops from the passenger compartment to make the bomb worthless.

      • Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Vadim Makarov ( 529622 ) <makarov@vad1.com> on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @08:03PM (#54397213) Homepage

        Could you please include a reference to a public source of this information?

    • Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by wvmarle ( 1070040 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @10:49PM (#54397785)

      A sadder part of this security theatre: a few weeks ago when boarding a flight from Taiwan my father had to hand in the scissors of his first aid kit, which happened to be in his hand luggage. Short (about 5 cm blades) with round tips. Apparently a dangerous weapon.

      It was sad to see how many much more dangerous weapons were sold after security.

      First I noticed make-up kits, with glass mirrors. Makes for nice sharp shards.

      Second chopsticks. Combined with a piece of sandpaper like those paper nail buffing boards it can make for a nice piercing weapon.

      Then I realised they also sell big glass bottles, usually with some alcoholic substances in it. Break the bottom off of them, and they become pretty nasty weapons - popular in bar fights as well.

      And finally we got nice metal cutlery on the flights. Even those knives (and the pointy forks!) looked more dangerous to me than those scissors. Or a bottle of water, for that matter.

      I'm sure there are a lot more of these "innocent" items for sale, that can be turned into weapons in the blink of an eye. I just haven't thought about it really, I just looked around a bit while wondering why he had to hand in those scissors. A dedicated criminal would for sure be able to find many other options.

      So why again aren't we allowed to bring small scissors? Security theatre optima forma!

  • ...to inflight alcoholic beverage sales.

  • by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:14PM (#54395289) Journal
    They could never ever figure out a way to bring down a plane with a laptop bag, if you check the bag in, instead of carrying it into the cabin. Man! Our security agencies are truly ingenious to find a chink in their armor and to exploit it fully! We need to thank our lucky stars we are under the vigilant and effective aegis of our alphabet soup agencies!
  • The evildoers will listen to the instructions of the flight crew and place their electronics in airplane mode so they can't communicate with anything. They would also never dream of bringing about communication devices that are not FAA certified and that might interfere with the airplane's electronic systems.

    Honestly my nine year old could figure out ways some evildoer could make this work.

  • Security theater (Score:4, Insightful)

    by qbast ( 1265706 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:17PM (#54395329)
    Why do I put my whole carry-on baggage including a laptop through x-ray anyway?
    • So the gate agents can marvel that your laptop has a graphics card. Like they did with mine. With a long line of passengers and only two gates. I was more flattered than I should have been but mostly really annoyed at how inefficient TSA is.
  • by JoshuaZ ( 1134087 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:18PM (#54395343) Homepage
    As a US academic who is deeply concerned about people not willing or wanting to go to US conferences, this is going to make everything much worse. We've had enough trouble as is trying to get people to keep going to conferences here given the current climate. This is going to make it much harder.
    • by Hizonner ( 38491 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:21PM (#54395387)

      Move the conferences. The US is no longer a viable venue.

      • by Zocalo ( 252965 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:46PM (#54395609) Homepage
        Unfortunately that doesn't really help. The problem then becomes one of how conference attendees from the US bring their laptops with them to overseas venues as, for better or worse, the US currently has a lot of people that are in demand at or need to attend global academic/industry/scientific conferences. The most likely outcome of this is that interaction between US delegates and those of other nations will decline - both through US delegates being unwilling to travel overseas or overseas delegates being unwilling to travel to the US. That, in turn, has a fairly obvious eventual net result that an increasingly isolated US will eventually start to lose out on the benefits that interaction brings.
        • by Hizonner ( 38491 )

          Well, so far, you could hold it anywhere else in the Americas. Canada's nice.

          I mean, I imagine they'll get around to screwing that up, too, but they haven't said that yet.

          The thing is that the US really isn't a viable venue any more without the laptop thing.

        • Canada or Mexico, where the Americans can drive to join in?
    • Goes beyond academia. I visit the US regularly for work and traveling with goddamn cellphones has been a concern for months now.

      I have no idea what you guys are doing anymore.

  • Banning stand-alone DVD players, cell phones and hand-help games (basically anything with a battery). Traveling with kids is going to be really fun. Also, anyone looking forward to checking their laptop along with baggage?

    • seat back scenes to come back?
      maybe even have sky Vegas with slots / blackjack and more at your seat with comps like free flights / free beer / free food and more just swipe your card and play!. must be 18 to play the tables or slots. For the kids we have the fun games zones for only $2.99-$10.99 a flight.
      movies from $2.99 to $19.99 for stuff still in the theaters.

  • It'll make it easier for the crew, too.

  • Completely untenable (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kschendel ( 644489 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:22PM (#54395395) Homepage

    If this is true, I'm horrified that the airlines would put up with having all those lithium batteries in uncontrolled luggage in the cargo hold. If it were my airline I'd refuse the fly the routes. I certainly won't get on a plane full of cargo hold batteries. I'm equally horrified that any business would put up with the loss of time and potential loss of assets due to theft, never mind the potential loss of employees if a cargo fire brings down a plane.

    This will be a huge boon to Canadian air travel. If this astounding idiocy is enacted, my Europe travel will all be going through Toronto, assuming that it occurs at all.

  • Will they cover damage / theft and loss? of them in checked bags? Will they only do it with an $20-$50 laptop checked bag service?

    Will business people sneak them on board.

    Will business pay for overnight shipping with fedex / ups for them to have insurance on them that the airlines will not have?

  • Can't Check Either (Score:4, Informative)

    by crow ( 16139 ) on Wednesday May 10, 2017 @03:30PM (#54395467) Homepage Journal

    The big catch here is that you aren't allowed to check li-ion batteries. So you can't bring a laptop from Europe to the USA at all.

    • They didn't say you couldn't carry on the batteries. So check the laptop and carry one the batter? Maybe it's an anti-Apple play for them not playing ball on backdooring phones. ;-)

  • If there weren't enough reasons already, this completely cinches it. No way in hell I'm flying to the US so long the current administrations lasts.

    There's no way I'm checking in my laptop, and there's no reason to bring my money to a place that is going to great lengths to make me feel unwelcome.

  • If you really -must- use your laptop en-route to the US from Europe then Iceland Air [icelandair.com], with a little stop over in Keflavik, should at least give you screen time for the 1st half of the journey. Plus you can go take a dip in the blue lagoon [bluelagoon.com] in between flights. :)

    This is just another nail in the coffin for US airlines.
    I stopped flying via the US (NZ - UK) due to the un-necessary harassment travellers have to endure just changing flights in the US, let alone entering the country.
    I fly via Dubai with Emirates.

  • After a wave of airline-related incidents like the Dao dragging and the Schear ejection, the FAA is defusing the situation by cutting down the number of people willing to fly to and from popular tourist destinations to perhaps 50 or fewer per flight. A reduced passenger count means that people will be able to sit farther apart, most passengers will get aisle seating, there will be fewer brawls over seat reclining and toilet usage, and the security lines will be shorter.

  • Can I have the password so I can look through your laptop?

    No it's in my checked baggage I haven't got to the baggage carousel yet

    They haven't thought this through have they

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