LG Joins NFC Payment Party With LG Pay (cnet.com) 55
An anonymous reader shares a report: Apple and Samsung have been fattening their pockets with digital wallets for years, and now LG wants in. The company rolled out LG Pay in South Korea on Friday, it said in a statement. South Korean users of the LG G6 will be the first to be able to use the service. LG Pay allows users to register up to 10 of their frequently used cards, including credit, membership and transportation cards. To make payment with LG Pay, users tap their phone against a credit card terminal and scan their fingerprint.
WTF is an "LG"? (Score:2, Funny)
https://xkcd.com/927/
Thanks, LG!
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LG is an electronics company. This is not a new standard. This is just another contactless EMV proxy payment service. It uses the same "standard" as Apple Pay, Android Pay, and Samsung Pay (and doesn't actually require special support to accept payment).
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It's still the same standard. They're just able to identify the provider in the data stream somewhere. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a contactless limit that is variably enforced.
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if you see this, it should work. (although i've only seen it without the hand)
http://i1.wp.com/www.economica... [wp.com]
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AKA contactless EMV, which is what I said.
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> WTF is an "LG"
Gee, if only there was a place that consolidated information and was discoverable. I know! I'll "link" information together forming a network. Now there could be a multiple networks -- so we could call the network of networks, an Intra-Net.
Timeline of LG
* 1947 Lak-Hui Chemical Industrial Corp established
* 1958 Goldstar established
* 1958 Lucky-Goldstar merge
* 1995 Lucky-GoldStar Corporation renamed to "LG"
References:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
* h [wikipedia.org]
Why not just a single standard (Score:4, Insightful)
Why not just make a single standard NFC Pay that any phone with NFC can implement? We already have Android Pay. What is the advantage of having LG Pay vs. Android Pay on an LG phone that already has Android installed? I have a Samsung phone that supposedly supports Samsung Pay, but I've never even configured it as I don't think I've seen a single store that advertises accepting Samsung Pay.
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Good question. And have an app that can ride on any phone - Android, iOS, even Windows Phone. Right now, companies make this a feature for top end phones: Apple only has it for iPhone 6 & above, Microsoft only had it for the Lumia 950/XL, and so on. And they are all different and competing standards. Have one across the board that one can use regardless of their phone (it just needs be a smartphone), and let it be as basic a function as text messaging.
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Right now, companies make this a feature for top end phones: Apple only has it for iPhone 6 & above, Microsoft only had it for the Lumia 950/XL, and so on.
This is not correct. Once Apple introduced Apple Pay, it's been on every new phone they've developed since - including the iPhone SE. The only exception was the iPhone 5C, which was introduced as a low end option when the first iPhone with TouchID (the 5S) was introduced.
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let it be as basic a function as text messaging
Because taking a secure payment is a little more complicated than sending a text message?
Have one across the board that one can use regardless of their phone (it just needs be a smartphone)
For the same same reason you can't download Angry Birds for iOS and run it on your Android phone.
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Why not just make a single standard NFC Pay that any phone with NFC can implement?
Because someone has to move the money. These don't store the card so much as proxy charges to the card.
The standard is contactless EMV. But someone has to actually handle moving the charging your real card whenever the virtual EMV card is charged.
No one has to accept Samsung Pay or Apple Pay or Android Pay, because on the hardware side your phone just looks like a contactless chip card (aka PayPass, ExpressPay, payWave, etc)
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I'm not sure of the others, but ya Google Wallet used to do the proxy thing.
Android Pay on the other hand contacts the credit card issuer and generates a new unique credit card number per card and device. Charges are made directly against the credit card without a proxy.
Google Wallet used to just show the changes as from them. With Android Pay it shows the actual business and rewards points for different categories work the same as if you were paying directly with your card.
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Not that I trust Google as the arbiter of my finances, but this beats card issuers directly issuing your phone as a card. Imagine having a different app for each issuing bank, and having to switch apps before scanning at the register.
And an open standard is just wide open for abuse, as the details for how the security tokens are stored on the phone is public knowledge - not something card issuers are going to want to do. And that would open up the end-user to having to maintain PCI compliance - banks won'
Re:Why not just a single standard (Score:4, Insightful)
Why not just make a single standard NFC Pay that any phone with NFC can implement?
That question was addressed by the first post: https://xkcd.com/927/ [xkcd.com]
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Because it involves the possibility that somebody somewhere might pay LG money for it. Therefore LG has to have it.
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Everything that accepts a mag swipe accepts Samsung Pay. I've never used it, so I don't know how well it works (such as for recessed readers like at a gas pump), but that's the claim.
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I have a Samsung phone that supposedly supports Samsung Pay, but I've never even configured it as I don't think I've seen a single store that advertises accepting Samsung Pay.
Samsung Pay will work everywhere Android Pay and Apple Pay work.
But it will even work on most old magnetic-only [youtube.com] terminals that do not support NFC, because in addition to NFC, Samsung Pay can also spoof a magnetic card (assuming the magnetic reader is not deeply embedded in the machine).
And like Android Pay, Samsung generates a unique one-time number, so it's safer to use than the credit card itself. After all, a credit card number is almost like a password and it doesn't make sense to use the same password
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Why not just make a single standard NFC Pay
Are you talking about a protocol or an app? All of these "X Pay" apps do use a standard protocol to communicate to the payment terminal. It's the same used by your physical contactless-enabled chip card.
If you are talking about the app, the obvious answer is that LG wants to driver users to other LG-branded services, and mine user data around payments. Other than preference on the user interface, there's no reason to use LG Pay over Android Pay they are going to be functionally identical.
I've never even configured it as I don't think I've seen a single store that advertises accepting Samsung Pay
That's not how it w
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Why not just make a single standard NFC Pay that any phone with NFC can implement?
We have that. We have always had that. I happily make NFC payments with my phone without the approval of Samsung, LG, Apple or Google. NFC is just a communication technology. Unless some fruity asshat company locks down their side of the communication anyone is free to provide an app that can make a payment, like e.g. my bank.
Side note: I was confused when Apple Pay was announced as a new technology and people were blowing their loads at the announcement. Google Wallet had no problem at NFC terminals for se
NFC? (Score:1)
You mean that thing that allows thieves to steal your money?
Re:NFC? (Score:4, Informative)
Nope. The thing that has prevented thieves from stealing my money several times since I've started using it.
A couple of vendors I've used have been "hit" since I started paying exclusively with ApplePay when shopping with them. My one-time-use card number was useless by the time thieves got it. No fraud, no need to get cards reissued. I might actually have a credit card survive until its expiration date without having to get a new one. Probably the first time in a decade if that manages to happen.
Granted, that's ApplePay's one-time function on top of NFC, not purely NFC. Still a BIG improvement over swiping my magstripe all over town for anyone to capture.
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I guess they're referring to non-authenticated plastic cards with NFC. Kind of off-topic, really. Thieves in close proximity could get a one-time use token to charge once that way. With a phone, it has to be unlocked/authenticated before a transaction is actually processed.
It's not Apple's own one-time function. It's just contactless EMV, which uses NFC. It works more or less the same as chip cards, just wirelessly. It works exactly the same as standard contactless chip cards (e.g. payWave, PayPass, E
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Swiping mag strip? Payment without some form of security code? This is the kind of stuff the rest of the world teaches in history classes.
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I might actually have a credit card survive until its expiration date without having to get a new one. Probably the first time in a decade if that manages to happen.
That indicates you've been using it wrong.
I only use my cards in secure machines, meaning machines the owners take a modicum of care to protect. Anywhere I don't trust emphatically receives cash.
Just like your penis, if you stick your card into all and sundry without any care what so ever., don't be surprised when it ends up regularly becoming a source of crippling pain.
Confusion from Korean Domestic Market? (Score:2)
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The point is for Samsung that they are not going to be dependent on Google. To use Android and ship Google's apps with it requires f
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The point is for Samsung that they are not going to be dependent on Google. To use Android and ship Google's apps with it requires following Google's rules which can be onerous (for a manufacturer). Since Google's apps provide much of the functionality over AOSP (the AOSP versions are generally very sad limited functionality versions), if you wanted a full featured Android phone you're really having to go with Google.
But Samsung decided they didn't want to be beholden to Google, so for every Google app they license, they developed a version of their own. Should Google decide to screw Samsung over, Samsung would simply withdraw licensing Google's apps, use AOSP and ship their own versions.
Again, this is a lack of understanding of the market. If Samsung were to ship their next generation flagship without Google it would struggle to sell any devices. An analogy would be HP deciding to drop Windows in favour of Linux, their sales would fall over night and they'd have massive returns
And because of this, Samsung is also huge in the Android world, so Google cannot make huge changes to Android's licensing terms without risking Samsung's departure. And with a full suite of replacement apps, that would fork the Android ecosystem.
No, the issue Google has is that it must tread very carefully because of anti-trust laws.
Universal tracking (Score:2)
FWIW, as a consumer, I always use cash.
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I pay my "day to day" expenses using cash only.
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How do you figure you're getting more data this way? You get a one-time-use card number that never gets used at any other vendor including you ever again. That's less data than being able to correlate multiple purchases to the same customer based on the same card number used over time.
Granted, I've got a smartphone, and you could be sniffing my WiFi MAC trying to track me. My payment method doesn't affect that. Also, MAC randomization FTW there.
Not saying cash isn't still the most anonymous option, but
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I'm pretty sure that in addition to the on-time-use token, you also get a lot of the same data that's stored on the mag stripe - including the primary card number [emvlab.org]. In multiple places [emvlab.org].
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Why are we doing this more? (Score:2)
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With apologies to Ben Franklin:
His original quote is
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I should write things like this down, for those days when I'm not feeling at my best, to remind myself that I'm still smarter than the average human, even on my worst days. xD
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I'm not sure I would go THAT far and make that judgement -- but it certainly seems to fit with people being blissfully unaware of how the companies are data mining the shit out of them and profiting off that very information that people _willingly_ give to the companies in the first place!
Technology is neither evil, nor good -- the exact same technology can be used for good, or abused just as equally.
The fundamental problem is people are NOT conscious of the choices they are making.
People have become "The P
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I've had to replace a credit card that got skimmed once in my life, and despite the thief spending thousands of dollars there was no risk of my being responsible for any of it because credit cards protect the consumer against that. On the other hand, if you carry a wad of cash you can be robbed and you won't get any of that money back. Credit cards aren't just hugely more convenient, they're infinitely safer for the consumer.
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You could pay for the same kind of theft insurance that the credit card companies have. The problem is that card companies transaction fees don't get passed onto the consumer. (At least in the U.S.) If they actually had to compete with cash, people might start to wake up to what is going on.
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> checking account ledger
Um, what? Are you 90 years old? Who the hell does that? Seriously, go get Mint or any other budgeting software. That's a ridiculous argument.
Android Pay and LG G6 (Score:3)
I'm already using Android Pay on my G6. What would compel me to use their app instead? Either of them (as well as Samsung/Apple) Pay all already follow the same phoneterminal standard. NFC... So, nothing to see here, don't install LG's app, use AndroidPay, move along...
WHY?!?!?!? (Score:2)
I just don't understand this. Do these companies get a cut of the transactions? Why are they all investing in this? How does having a bunch of competing standards benefit the mobile manufacturers? Because it sure as hell doesn't benefit consumers. This is an area just begging for a standard. And it would be easy to do! (I thought we already had one, but now it seems as if everything has changed.) Does LG's solution work without SafetyNet getting in the way trying to control what you do with your own
Will I use it? (Score:2)
NFC - No Fucking Chance.