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Canada Businesses Technology

Canada's Play For Immigrant Tech Talent (axios.com) 257

Posted by msmash from the how-they-work dept.
An anonymous reader shares an Axios report: When it comes to high-skilled immigration, the U.S.'s loss could be Canada's gain. Canada recently launched a Global Skills Strategy visa program to make it easier for its companies to bring in foreign workers with specific technology or business skills. The program allows firms to have a position pre-approved and get visas within two weeks -- a stark contrast to the months-long U.S. visa process. Why it matters: The Trump administration has moved to restrict the number of immigrants coming into the U.S. on work visas, which worries big tech and consulting firms that use the H-1B visa program to fill technical and specialized jobs. Canada's government is seizing the moment to provide an option for engineers, executives and other tech talent who may no longer qualify for an H-1B visa or who simply don't feel comfortable staying in the U.S. Open for business: Navdeep Bains, Canada's Minister of Innovation, told Axios that Canada wants to be open to ideas, open to trade, and "more importantly, we want to be open to people" in order for companies to grow. Bains stopped short of framing the program as a way to poach talent from Silicon Valley, instead saying that the government is "open to whatever region has talent."
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Canada's Play For Immigrant Tech Talent More

Canada's Play For Immigrant Tech Talent

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  • theodp (Score:2, Informative)

    by 110010001000 ( 697113 )
    Theodp isn't going to like this. Plus they are probably teaching kids how to program too. The horrors!
  • Great opportunity for all those Americans who want to get away from the current government to leave. Of course, they have to have a useful skill.

    • Re:All those Americans who want to leave can now g (Score:4, Informative)

      by PolygamousRanchKid ( 1290638 ) on Thursday July 06, 2017 @09:50AM (#54756325)

      Great opportunity for all those Americans who want to get away from the current government to leave. Of course, they have to have a useful skill.

      There is only one skill you will ever need to get any job anywhere in the world that you want:

      You need the skill to be willing to work for less than anyone else who wants the job.

      It's just like the two guys getting chased by a bear . . . you don't need to run faster than the bear . . . just faster than the other guy.

      High Tech "bosses" lie like rugs when they claim that they want to attract high skill folks. All that they really want are cheaper "human" resources.

      I say we haul those execs up in front of a Congressional investigative committee, and ask them, Big Tobacco Style, if they truly believe that cigarettes are healthy and non-addictive. In this case, ask them if they need to attract the best talent, or if they are just "bottom fishing"; trying to see have far they can push down IT wages.

      • Re: All those Americans who want to leave can now (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Right now our problem in Canada is finding anyone skilled in certain areas, regardless of salaries. Decent data scientists, for example, are close to impossible to recruit. Despite very high salaries and benefits, enrolment in computer science was down, last i checked.

        Even in non-tech, there is a labor shortage. Unemployment in Quebec is at the lowest since we record it, with all the boomers retiring. Ive talked with numerous factory managers that are looking to robotize, not to lower cost, but because they

        • This simply is not true. There is no labor shortage, and in fact the very idea of a "labor shortage" is pure lunacy; it cannot exist. The only thing that can exist is a shortage of labor willing to work for the wages offered.

          Despite very high salaries and benefits,

          Wrong. Canada is infamous for paying peanuts for tech jobs. That's why so many Canadian tech workers move south of the border to work in the US, despite a much worse social safety net and much higher healthcare costs. Those worse conditions

          • This simply is not true. There is no labor shortage, and in fact the very idea of a "labor shortage" is pure lunacy; it cannot exist. The only thing that can exist is a shortage of labor willing to work for the wages offered.
            That is bollocks.
            From where should a high skilled developer come?
            Hu? They are not there. Simple. That had nothing to do with wages.

            Your particular company, can offer a super high wage to get some developer switch to you from another company.
            Now the other company has an open job offer an

      • You need the skill to be willing to work for less than anyone else who wants the job.
        In your world. The rest of the world is quite different.
        No one is replacing my job because he is cheaper. Actually I was the first applying for it who could prove in an interview that he has the required qualifications.
        So: the job offer is closed. No one can even apply to it ... a no brainer actually.
        I terminated about 10 open applications today and canceled one phone interview.
        If I need a new job, it takes me 3 - 5 days to

  • Visa isn't the main issue for Canada (Score:3, Informative)

    by AnthonywC ( 4415891 ) on Thursday July 06, 2017 @09:33AM (#54756199)
    Salary is; the salary gap from top tier city (e.g. Toronto) in Canada cannot compare with the likes of NYC or SF/SV. Salary gap is easily 30-50% with exchange rate, which makes it pretty hard to recruit when a candidate for literally makes 2x in US.

    • You may make twice the money, but you'll be in the US. TANSTAAFL.

    • higher salaries != higher disposable income.

      I have a decent two bed room apartment for under $1000/year that is a 15 minute bike ride to downtown in a lively neighborhood with numerous public transit links.

      Good luck finding anything decent for less than $1000/year in NYC or San Francisco.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Do people really not understand that even though they make 2x as much their cost of living will more than offset it, but to mention quality of life.

  • The Trump administration has moved to restrict the number of immigrants coming into the U.S. on work visas, which worries big tech and consulting firms that use the H-1B visa program to fill technical and specialized jobs.

    When in the more recent past has anyone used H-1B for that? Is that even legal?

  • More people live in Tokyo than in all of Canada. (Score:3)

    by emil ( 695 ) on Thursday July 06, 2017 @10:08AM (#54756489)
    The nation simply cannot support a wholesale migration of the U.S. technology sector - the threat is comparatively small.

    • Not sure if serious? Tokyo - 13 million. Canada - 35 million.

      • Search for "population of tokyo". You will see that he was referring to Tokyo and area with a population of ~37.5 million. FWI, Canada is more like 37 million so they are basically the same. But if you look at only Tokyo, it is more like 9 million.

  • What we should do and how (Score:3)

    by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Thursday July 06, 2017 @10:16AM (#54756587) Homepage

    The reason why we don't let any immigrant in to work is we want to protect American jobs. On average, most H1B1 visa holders get paid about 10% less than American workers. I suggest a simple solution. 10% foreign worker tax on employers.

    3 Steps:
    1) Offer a new visa that lets you work in America, but your employer must pay an additional 10% tax beyond all normal taxes. If the employer fails to pay this tax, it is treated as if they themselves cheated on their personal taxes.

    2) These visas last for up to 7 months, and then you have to leave the country for at least 3 months before you apply again. You can't get one if you are sick or pregnant at the time of application.

    3) These visas are unlimited. We would give out 500 million of them if that many people asked.

    This solves most of the immigration problems. It lets employers hire people if they can't find Americans willing to do the job, but won't let foreigners take our jobs willy-nilly. It kills the industry supporting illegal immigration by removing their customers, negating the need for a fence, let alone a wall. It gives our country a nice extra boost of cash to pay for any additional expenses, or (more likely) reduce the deficit.

    • What has pregnancy to do with that?
      If I was a woman and wanted my kid to be a born american, I simply entered with a tourist visa. Facepalm.

    • > I suggest a simple solution. 10% foreign worker tax on employers.

      Interesting. Be more specific though, do it on the visa type.

  • Ahhhhh (Score:2, Insightful)

    by NetNed ( 955141 )
    Why? The job climate in Canada isn't that great so why would they need to bring in workers if the whole "retrain workers" works??? So many under lying issues that this story doesn't want to touch so they write a piece to bash the US.

    • > The job climate in Canada isn't that great

      Ummm, no. The unemployment rate is currently the lowest it has ever been.

      Note that we count the numbers differently, so our 6.9% seems a lot higher but is in fact basically only slightly higher than the US.

      The US does have much higher labor mobility, which helps even out shocks. So things like the meltdown in Saskatchewan and Alberta which have a significant effect on the current numbers would likely be lower in the US.

  • Since the vast majority of H1-B visas end up going to junior and mid-level people at best as opposed to the "highly skilled" pool of people that the system was ostensibly designed for, they're all yours Canada! Enjoy!

  • Amost 60 years ago it was Canada's loss, US gain (Score:5, Interesting)

    by k6mfw ( 1182893 ) on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:10AM (#54757153)
    When Avro cancelled the Arrow and the AvroCar, Canada lost many talented engineers and the US got all these people to work in the space program. Talk to some old timer Canucks and they are still fuming over Diefenbaker.

    • > Talk to some old timer Canucks

      In eastern Canada, maybe. Talk to them out west and it's universally "good riddance". There it was seen as a massive and horribly expensive labor welfare program.

    • It's about 300,000 code monkeys. I don't know about you but I'm not trying to compete with German rocket scientists I'm trying to compete with programmers from Indian diploma mills.
  • Canada can't possibly absorb a lot of IT workers - there are not enough jobs for them. Unless more US companies open Canadian offices and create jobs to be filled with these H1B losers this will go nowhere. But this would be hardly different from traditional outsourcing.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by hipp5 ( 1635263 )

      Unless more US companies open Canadian offices and create jobs to be filled with these H1B losers this will go nowhere.

      I suspect this is exactly the hoped-for outcome. It's a net-win for Canada if a company moves here. Even if 75% of their positions are H1B-equivalents, that other 25% is new jobs for Canadians, plus Canada gets more corporate income tax and other such benefits.

  • do they have a good min pay level and do they need to do a real search for local workers first?

  • if we did things like Canada... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ooloorie ( 4394035 ) on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:26AM (#54757331)

    We'd enforce our immigration laws strictly and kick out illegal immigrants, instead of harboring 10-20 million illegals and dreaming up new ways to let them stay.

    We'd give strong preference to immigrants and workers with high skills, instead of having a race- and family based immigration system.

    We'd cut the Medicare/Medicaid budget in half, or alternatively, cover all Americans on the current Medicare/Medicaid budget.

    How about it?

  • After you realize that most post-docs don't make so much, and are far more concerned with the sweet sweet reward of Single Payer National Healthcare that Canada has, you realize that, after they come to the US to get their PhD or Masters, they are going to Canada to work.

    Sad.

  • Perhaps the same corrupt bonus culture that has dominated the US is now looking north.
    It is sad that Canada wants to gut its middle class.
    It should make for some interesting elections there.

    • > It should make for some interesting elections there.

      I did. This issue was front and center during the last election, when the incumbent started seeing headwinds and began talking about immigration. The instant he did that his poll numbers plummeted and he lost the election.

      The incoming guy, who's primary attribute is good looks and a name, immediately brought in 25,000 syrians. To do so, everyday Canadians like myself had to pony up cash to sponsor them, about $20,000 on $25000 on average. This present

  • Is it just H-1B North? (Score:3)

    by ErichTheRed ( 39327 ) on Thursday July 06, 2017 @11:51AM (#54757583)

    In the US, the original intent of the H-1B visa was to be a safety valve to find and hire the most talented people you could find regardless of their current location. I actually know several people whose employers used it for this purpose. But, it has been shown that all the body shops use it to bring in cheap labor. The visa rules state that the minimum salary is $60K, and it never got adjusted for inflation. So, say you're a company in San Francisco and have to pay your IT staff $200K a year just to keep their heads above water. TCS or Infosys or Cognizant will come around and offer you 2 "qualified resources" for the same price, and you get to wash your hands of the IT department. It's not surprising they win outsourcing deals.

    Hopefully Canada won't repeat the same mistake. I doubt it though -- there's no point in participating in politics unless you have millions of dollars to buy the laws you want. I'm sure all the big companies have purchased themselves nice loopholes similar to the ones we have. It's a shame too, because I would move to Toronto or Montreal in 2 seconds if I could find a good job.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by m00sh ( 2538182 )

      In the US, the original intent of the H-1B visa was to be a safety valve to find and hire the most talented people you could find regardless of their current location. I actually know several people whose employers used it for this purpose. But, it has been shown that all the body shops use it to bring in cheap labor. The visa rules state that the minimum salary is $60K, and it never got adjusted for inflation. So, say you're a company in San Francisco and have to pay your IT staff $200K a year just to keep their heads above water. TCS or Infosys or Cognizant will come around and offer you 2 "qualified resources" for the same price, and you get to wash your hands of the IT department. It's not surprising they win outsourcing deals.

      Hopefully Canada won't repeat the same mistake. I doubt it though -- there's no point in participating in politics unless you have millions of dollars to buy the laws you want. I'm sure all the big companies have purchased themselves nice loopholes similar to the ones we have. It's a shame too, because I would move to Toronto or Montreal in 2 seconds if I could find a good job.

      WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! That was never the intent of the H1B visa.

      You're confusing it with the EB1 visa. EB1 grants direct green card - no work permits.

      H1B was to provide a temporary work permit in a specialized field that an employer cannot fulfill LOCALLY.

      Example, Company A needs skill S to finish project P. They look for people with skill S looking for a job in Company A's city. They can't find anyone - everyone with skill S is happily employed. So, they hire an H1B with skill S. That is the intent of

  • These visas are still arbitrarily limited to people with advanced degrees. They (generally) don't target the tech talent that actually knows what the fuck it's doing.

  • I'm Canadian, and this is a great country to live in, but most of the people I've met overseas who are considering coming to Canada are only doing it because it's considered easier to migrate to Canada if you have a graduate degree, and then they're still looking to get into the United States, once they're in Canada. For some reason that I don't quite understand, the idea of just migrating to Canada because it's a great place to live doesn't occur to them. Of course there are lots of people who immigrate

  • It's a country with the population of California, but is geographically the second largest country in the world.

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