Not Made in America, Wal-Mart Looks Overseas For Online Vendors (reuters.com) 111
Walmart.com, trailing Amazon.com in the number of goods for sale on its website, is recruiting vendors in China and other countries to boost its online offerings in a pivot away from Wal-Mart's Made-in-America campaign. From a report: While there is a financial incentive behind the move, Wal-Mart's decision comes out of necessity: not all the goods its customers want -- ranging from jeans to bicycles to beauty products -- are manufactured within the United States. That reality pits Wal-Mart against President Donald Trump's "Made in America" push. It also risks alienating some of Wal-Mart's existing U.S. vendors since it runs counter to the American-made pledge the retailer made in 2013 in a bid to win customers, and satisfy unions and other critics who said its drive for low cost goods was undermining American jobs. According to two sources with knowledge of the matter, Wal-Mart Stores in February began inviting sellers from China, the United Kingdom and Canada to list on the marketplace section of Walmart.com, where it earns a share of revenue from goods sold and delivered to customers by third-party vendors.
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Morals are apparently only for television and other such fantasies.
Since when is buying American more "moral" than buying elsewhere?
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Could argue that depending on the elsewhere the lax labor laws could run against your morals.
If I buy a T-Shirt made in a sweatshop using child labor does that make it less moral than if I bought it from a local manufacturer abiding by those labor laws I find moral and voted for?
Obviously, that falls apart if the elsewhere has the same or similar labor laws.
Re:who cares? (Score:4, Interesting)
If I buy a T-Shirt made in a sweatshop using child labor ...
China has strict child labor laws. The only evidence that child labor is used in export factories was a series of photos published in 2010 showing children chained to their work stations. They were soon exposed as a hoax.
Compared to OSHA, China has more lax workplace safety, but safety rules are more rigidly enforced in export factories, so buying "Made in China" is likely providing Chinese workers with safer and better jobs that they would otherwise have.
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Hmm.. I guess we better should take your word for it, huh?
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Because it is more moral to give a dollar to an unskilled, unmotivated, and under-educated American worker who didn't bother to pay attention in school or better themselves and lives in an apartment with his own bedroom, a flush toilet, dishwasher, internet access, and a smoke alarm and who owns an iPhone than to give a dollar to a hard working young adult who grew up on a farm in rural China without running water and whose hardworking family struggled to barely survive and who has taken the initiative to l
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Been to the rust belt lately? (this is assuming you are American)
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Been to the rust belt lately?
Yes. I was in the Midwest a few months ago. What is your point?
China also has a rust belt. Been to Harbin lately?
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I'm not Chinese. I'd rather pay a bit more money for a car (or insert hypothetical manufactured item) and have it be made by some dude in MI or OH than elsewhere.
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This is another ./ story that the "editors" think is relevant to tech nerds?
I just go to ebay for chinese (Score:2)
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I've only had one bad purchase from China via eBay in over two decades.
Of course, if you're the type of person to just believe anything a seller tells you, you will end up buying crap such as those "9000mAh" 18650 batteries on eBay.
Re: I just go to ebay for chinese (Score:1)
Truth.
There are even fake fakes. "UltraFire" is a well-known fake 18650 "brand" with wildly exaggerated capacity ratings. Then you have those who really really don't care, and print their cells with "UitraFlre" or even "UitraFlrc".
Google it and have a laugh.
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Yeah, battery capacity tends to be exaggerated, and batteries might be lacking certain circuitry that prevents the cells from dying quickly.
As in very quickly, in a ball of fire, if you subject them to things they aren't specifically stating support for, like charging.
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I have to agree. Granted, I generally don't buy anything I'm TOO concerned about from China, but if I can get something for a dollar or two from China off Ebay (when ordering domestic costs 5-10x as much, AND the item is usually still "Made in China" anyways), then I'll do it.
In many, many years of ordering (I've been on ebay for 20 years but I'd say my first order from China was probably 12 years ago), I've never had a package not show up. It might take 2-3 months sometime, but they've always gotten here
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Free 'instantaneous' shipping? - you just drive over and pick it up.
Being able to examine the item in person? None of this photo horseshit; many times the photos aren't even of the product.
A legitimate return policy? None of this BS of the seller being non-responsive when there is a problem.
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I am shocked that global commerce isn't easy! (Score:5, Interesting)
The Globalization Genie had been opened. Trying to get it closed will not be easy.
There are some tasks that just doesn't make sense for America to do anymore. Putting workers pay and working conditions aside. It is just trying to find people willing to do that particular work. Kids today are not looking for manufacturing jobs. The manufacturing jobs in America are for higher cost items, because these jobs require people with real skills to build.
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Realistically, what do they want then? Not everybody is cut out for STEM jobs and not everybody has enough people/schmoozing skills for sales, and you have to know the ropes of some specialty before you become manager.
Factory jobs can get really boring, but some people are okay with the redundancy.
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Probably not, most can't afford that.
Re:I am shocked that global commerce isn't easy! (Score:5, Interesting)
Get rid of the minimum wage and they might.
I'm sure people are aghast at the thought of getting rid of a "living wage" but hear me out. Imagine how much it would cost you in real dollars to lose the use of one of your bedrooms. I know a lot of people on Slashdot are college students, so just imagine a small family in a typical three bedroom house with two parents and one or two children. What does one bedroom "cost" in real dollars? Not much, it's hard to put a number on it with so many variables but I think we can agree the cost is small.
What is that room worth to someone looking for somewhere to stay? In real dollars? That could be somewhere between half and a quarter of the mortgage. Now the family, with two working parents, might just love to have a young trustworthy person to watch the house and children while they work. If they have to pay minimum wage then this is priced right out. If they can agree to pay in shelter, food (because what would one extra person cost in food for a family of four?), and a small monthly stipend then this might be a worthwhile job for a lot of people.
I could see this as a valid career for someone. They might specialize in certain kinds of care, perhaps going from family to family every couple of years to care for small children, or older people, or whatever. If they are good then they could perhaps demand a good stipend and retire to a place and hire their own house keeper.
I'm sure if someone was willing to do the proper paperwork to avoid the minimum wage laws that this is possible now. Certainly wealthy people do this already. If more people can get a start working at any wage then they can demand a higher one later.
I think it all starts with doing away with the minimum wage.
Re:I am shocked that global commerce isn't easy! (Score:4, Informative)
Get rid of the minimum wage and they might.
Housekeepers make way more than minimum wage. I have a cleaning woman come twice a month. She cleans for 3 hours, and I pay her $120. That is $40 per hour. Minimum wage in California is $10.50.
But even at $40/hr, no American is interested, so I get to practice speaking Spanish twice a month.
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Or you could deduct housing and food from their (minimum wage) pay, just like rich people do.
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Do you really want somebody living off of really low wages poking around your house? Poverty creates desperation.
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Do you really want somebody living off of really low wages poking around your house? Poverty creates desperation.
This is a different kind of job. Not like others where getting fired means going home and not going to work the next day. This kind of work means being potentially homeless if fired. That's got to be a motivator to behave. Also, there's more than just the stipend to compensate them, like perhaps living in a nicer house and neighborhood than they could afford at even twice the minimum wage.
They're not getting much of a real wage, but they are getting food and shelter as part of their pay. Just a roof ov
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Not house keepers but there are lots of people who get house keeping services. They come in once or twice a week and clean up the essentials such as the sinks, toilets, showers, floors, etc. They go around and clean up a couple of houses day. The company does a background check on all of the employees and cleaners are sent in teams of two or three.
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You can always work at Walmart...
Re:I am shocked that global commerce isn't easy! (Score:5, Interesting)
There are a number of things to consider.
There are some tasks that just doesn't make sense for America to do anymore.
This is correct; however,
It is just trying to find people willing to do that particular work. Kids today are not looking for manufacturing jobs. The manufacturing jobs in America are for higher cost items, because these jobs require people with real skills to build.
That isn't.
The Chinese are fantastically-skilled manufacturers. They have the capacity to produce the highest-quality goods--or any quality of goods--at the lowest cost in terms of labor (hours), not just in terms of wage-labor (wages x labor).
People economize. People want to expend ('spend) the least means for the greatest ends. In other words: they want to get things as cheap as they can. Less work, less money, less whatever from them, more of what they want to them.
Americans, thus, have a huge demand for the lowest-price goods they can get. To American business, that doesn't just mean outsourcing to cheap Chinese labor; it means paying the Chinese half as much to make a low-quality good when they could damned well get a high-quality good that no American manufactory could ever produce at a reasonable price at any quality level. People don't want a $36 electric can-opener that their grandchildren will inherit; they want a $19 can-opener that they'll replace in 5 years with a fancier model for some unfathomable reason (this one cuts from the side to produce no sharps on the lid--just on the can!).
Do you know why there are no manufacture jobs to make can openers in America?
Because you can't pay American workers. Nobody's buying the product for $100 (the American wage is higher, after all); and the Americans can't make it as well as the Chinese, besides. You don't have a revenue stream. Those jobs don't exist because of lack of demand.
Trade advantage. We're richer because we get the same products cheaper.
This 5% unemployment isn't going away; it'll spike in the next recession, and then recede to around 5% again. We're at 4.7% now and we're not going to see 3%, although we might be able to squeeze a bit more out if we can go expending peoples's savings (notably, the huge savings of venture capitalists) to create unsupportable jobs and start-ups that will eventually collapse as the rich-people money runs out.
We're not going to see permanent 10% unemployment or permanent 3% unemployment; we're not losing jobs to China. Oddly enough, manufacturing e.g. pants in America instead of China would decrease total American jobs: we lose the retail, shipping, and other support jobs that are based purely on volume of goods (a retail cashier scans 980 items per hour; a 40-foot trailer carries 20,000 pairs of pants) when the American factories crank out expensive goods. People can afford fewer of those high-priced goods, after all; and the American factory worker can't spend his money until he's earned his money, so it ticks around like a clock (in a computer, synchronizing the pipeline).
Theoretically, 178,000 Chinese workers (40-hour week) supply all the import men and boys's cotton trousers and shorts America buys; there are 158,000,000 working Americans. "The money stays in America" only means it goes to those 178,000 Americans--theoretically. When the money can't buy as much, it goes to fewer Americans--say 59,000 (3x as expensive). Those Americans can't offset the loss of purchasing power of the other 158,000,000, and so less is purchased in total, less is moved and retailed, and many of those others lose their jobs.
Why can't Americans buy so many pants when pants cost $30 or $50 instead of $15? Because the American worker must work twice as long to earn that wage!
Finally, there's this:
Putting workers pay and working conditions aside.
Chinese wage and social insurances were
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You are vastly overestimating the difference of American labor on product price there, brah.
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they want a $19 can-opener that they'll replace in 5 years with a fancier model for some unfathomable reason (this one cuts from the side to produce no sharps on the lid--just on the can!).
I bought this "special" can opener that was labeled something like "opens first time, guaranteed". I have to say, the thing is amazing. It literally does what it says, and doesn't take three attempts to open a god damn can...
Remember Walmart's "Made in the USA" campaign? (Score:2)
It's seems like an eternity ago.
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If you live in the United States, the health of the USA economy is extreme importance to you.
Indeed. But economic nationalism does not lead to a healthy economy and never has.
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If you live in the United States, the health of the USA economy is extreme importance to you.
But grammar isn't.
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They are promoting it again if you haven't been into a store recently. I had the unfortunate displeasure of having to buy a couple things from them so I was in store as recently as a few weeks ago. I don't believe anything they are hanging the banner on is actually made in America, I'd be willing to be the bulk is crap made in china by an American company where some small minuscule process was done in America.
Anyone claiming such in advertising should be required by law to report the percentage.
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Anyone claiming such in advertising should be required by law to report the percentage.
When I was shopping for a minivan, I did some research about where the vehicles were made, and also where all the parts were made, and the "labor value" by country. The "most American" was the Honda Odyssey.
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Anyone claiming such in advertising should be required by law to report the percentage.
While it's not an exact percentage, some companies do something similar (and I'd wager they wouldn't if not required to). Buck Knives for example has various models of different quality levels.
Some that are wholly made in the US are marked "Made in the USA" (usually with an indicator that the sheath was Made in Mexico as they seem to always outsource their leather work there). Some are marked "Made in China". Others are marked "Made in the USA of USA and Imported Parts".
I don't think they'd put the "impo
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I've always equated Wal-Mart with cheap products made in China. Isn't that kind of a stereotype about Wal-Mart? I don't think I've ever heard anyone accuse Wal-Mart of being very "American" in their offerings.
What has changed?
Are you kidding me? (Score:5, Interesting)
You must be joking.
Wal-mart hasn't been about "made in America" since the last century at least. THEY are the ones pushing companies to cut prices at any cost and outsource manufacturing to China to begin with.
They are the LAST place I would go looking for stuff made in the US. They try to drive those kinds of companies out of business.
Re:Are you kidding me? (Score:4, Informative)
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They've been slapping a big patriotic logo on the few percent of their items actually made in the US, and the rest have "Made in China" in teeny weeny little letters. You have to buy their Chinese-made magnifying glass to see it.
Wal*Mart NEVER was. (Score:4, Informative)
Back when Walmart was becoming a national thing, Sam Walton would be quoted, "We have the highest quality products at the lowest prices!"
So, when one finally showed up near me, I went shopping. Same shit as K-Mart for maybe a cent or two lower.
He was just another bullshitter. He had this public personae of this folksy Arkansas hick who drove an old pickup truck (Hey customers! I'm just one of you!) but in reality he was s shrewd business guy that exploited his customers and the fact the most retailers stayed away from rural areas.
That's all he did: he put stores were others didn't and sold the same shit.
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My uncle met Sam Walton a few times. He told me that he was in a meeting with Sam in a conference room. At the end of the meeting everyone shook hands and began walking out of the room. But Sam, already a billionaire, walked around the table, gathered up all the ink pens and put them in his pocket.
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They've had a SMALL push lately, but nothing big. If you went to their tool section for example they might have one item "Made in the USA" amongst all the Chinese stuff.
Overall though it's somewhat of a non-issue. Economic benefits aside, "Made in the USA" is more in indicator of a minimum level of quality versus being the only quality items.
The Chinese can and do produce quality products - it's just that they also don't seem to mind producing absolute junk if that's what you'll buy. Most stuff made here
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https://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know [fastcompany.com]
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Why would I... I don't shop there... I don't use their physical store, why would I use their online store? ASDA are at the very bottom of the list.
Well, good for you, I guess. But why should any of us care what you do? It has no relevance to the story.
Maybe you hadn't realised, but Slashdot wasn't created solely for your consumption.
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What are you talking about? How have I been an apologist for Walmart?
AC's post is pointless and irrelevant regardless of what I think about Walmart/Asda - which is, not that it matters, basically nothing, since I have neither anywhere near me.
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Why would we shop at Walmart?
The prices are good,the quality is Good Enough, it's less than 2 miles from the house, and there are 4 people in our household.
tragic narcissists (Score:1)
Why would we shop at Walmart?
The prices are good,the quality is Good Enough, it's less than 2 miles from the house, and there are 4 people in our household.
yes indeed it's all about you and your convenience
you are gladly giving your money to people who literally want you to die
don't believe me? look at what they pay people. not enough to eat
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look at what they pay people.
Look at the people they employ. My local Walmart has an employee in a wheelchair, and two that look like they have Down's Syndrome. Walmart is providing jobs to people on the bottom rung of the economic ladder. That is a Good Thing.
not enough to eat
Not enough for a single income head-of-household. But a big help for an additional earner who would otherwise be unemployed.
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To be honest, this is the Sam Vimes boot's phenomenon.
If you can afford to shop somewhere other than walmart, you'll be far better off in a short period of time. Their products are incredibly poor quality.
I used to work in a testing facility, and most (if not all) the major brand names make Walmart specific SKU's which are made of inferior components. Their Quality department is ruthless in trying to absolve liability for products that don't meet US codes and standards, and they could not care less about
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That said, if you can manage it, the quality of products you buy at a different store will probably last a lot longer and save you money in the long run.
I just tell people I'm too poor to shop at Walmart, I can't afford to buy my stuff twice.
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I am 47 years old, live in Scotland but have lived in many places across the uk. NEVER EVER have I have to pay to park at an ASDA. Not ever.
from Ayrshire, Glasgow, Aldershot, Catterick, Edinburgh,Perth,Aberdeen
Colon, not comma (Score:4, Funny)
Not Made in America, Wal-Mart Looks Overseas For Online Vendors
What, Wal-Mart's not made in America?
Comma should have been a colon. Someone needs to go to headline-writing school.
Is anyone surprised (Score:2)
Really, is anyone surprised by this?
Let the Wal-Mart bashing begin! (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't like Wal-Mart. I remember a long time ago when Wal-Mart would advertise that everything they sold in the store was made in the USA. Then one day those advertisements stopped. They still had ads on TV but the claims of everything made in the USA wasn't part of it. Then it was how every day they dropped prices. Cheap, cheap, cheap, that's what they sold.
When I had to move to a new town and buy some things for my apartment I didn't know where I could shop. I did happen upon a Wal-Mart though. The place was dimly lit. It smelled like cheap plastic. And, the other shoppers looked like extras from a horror movie. The wastebasket I bought then stunk up the whole apartment. I told myself that I'd only go back to Wal-Mart again only if there was no other alternative.
I'll still go back once in a while. Usually because I'm taken there by someone I'm shopping with. The stores are brighter now. The stench is gone. The quality of the shoppers is hit and miss. I've learned what is "safe" and "not safe" to buy for the most part. Milk is usually safe, fruits not so much. I've learned to also look for brands I recognize. Schumacher? Never seen them before, probably crap. Deltran? I've heard of them, I'll get that instead.
If I need to buy something right away I've got lots of choices besides Wal-Mart. Would I go on-line to buy anything from them? Not likely. Sorry Wal-Mart, you lost me when you prioritized price over quality. I can't afford you because I cannot be bothered to buy my stuff twice. I'd rather go somewhere else and buy a quality product in the first place so I don't have to go looking for a replacement. I see you have not changed your ways.
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Sorry Wal-Mart, you lost me when you prioritized price over quality. I can't afford you because I cannot be bothered to buy my stuff twice. I'd rather go somewhere else and buy a quality product in the first place so I don't have to go looking for a replacement. I see you have not changed your ways.
You can buy plenty of name brand stuff at Walmart that is exactly the same as found elsewhere, just less expensive.
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You can buy plenty of name brand stuff at Walmart that is exactly the same as found elsewhere, just less expensive.
Still not worth it. I can go to a Target, Sears, Best Buy, or whatever and buy what I came to get for a few bucks more and not have to go somewhere else to buy the other stuff I went to go shopping for that day. The margins on the savings for even big purchases are not worth my time. I might save $5 or $15 on a $300 piece of electronics but that's not worth it. Something like an iPod, or XBox, or whatever the latest gadget might be could be only pennies cheaper. Something like a TV set, even from a kno
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The classic counterexample I goto is the Rubbermaid mop bucket and wringer. The one you get at Wallyworld is not the same as the one you get at Home Depot. It's cheaper, but absolute garbage.
The one they _use_ at Walmart? The one from Home Depot. I gave the local Wallyworld manager a ration of shit over it. They should eat their own dogfood.
Worse, you can now find the useless one at other vendors. Once they made the molds, they just run it, sunk costs. Rubbermaid aren't considering the cost of wrecking
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Rubbermaid aren't considering the cost of wrecking their brand...
Sure they are. Somebody (or several somebodies), somewhere in Rubbermaid, is actively and deliberately converting the brand's reputation into personal (and maybe stockholder) wealth. It has value and they're cashing it out. Caring about the longevity of the company is outdated thinking.
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I cringed when he said milk, too.
The only thing I've ever bought at Wal-Mart is ammo and that's only because I was riding with somebody else who insisted in stopping there to get shells and clays. Using cut-rate ammo seemed a sketchy choice, so I left the rest of it with him.
Walmart has a big presence in China (Score:2)
Walmart is not just in America. It has more than 6000 stores in America, but in China it has more than 400. It and the US govt. needs to be more shrewd in bargaining to get more stores in China and other places. No one-sided protectionism. Kill China's preferred nation status with the US if they get all fussy about letting more American goods and businesses in.
Logistics (Score:3)
Walmart *could* compete with Amazon. They offer 2-day shipping, and have a seller marketplace... but that two day shipping is useless when the item isn't shipped for weeks.
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We've started buying certain groceries from them (canned and durable bagged food, toothpaste, etc). The two-day shipping is sometimes three days, but we plan ahead, and it reduces the amount of time we have to spend at the brick-and-mortar store.
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Walmart (or their resellers?) are selling on Amazon. I ordered a 5 pack of family size Honey Comb on Amazon [not prime], and it arrived in a day and was in a Walmart warehouse box.
They have only themselves to blame (Score:2)
It would be interesting to see... (Score:2)
What percentage of Trump voters (versus those who voted for Clinton) also shop at Walmart?
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No, it wouldn't. If you look at a map of Walmart locations the big concentrations are in major urban areas. LA, Chicago, Baltimore, Boston, Washington, Philidelphia, St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver etc. There are lots of locations sprinkled over the Eastern hinterlands, but those are 25-50 miles or more apart, whereas you can't swing a wife beater in Tampa without hitting a Walmart.
Walmart's largest demographic is lower income urbanites living in deep blue counties. The snaggletooth trumpsters that hau