In Response To Anti-diversity Memo, YouTube CEO Says Sexism in Tech is 'Pervasive' (theverge.com) 642
An anonymous reader writes: YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki has responded to the Google anti-diversity memo, writing in a column for Fortune that the questioning of women's abilities is "pervasive" in tech and that the memo is "yet another discouraging signal to young women who aspire to study computer science." Wojcicki opens by saying her daughter asked her, "Is it true that there are biological reasons why there are fewer women in tech and leadership?" Wojcicki says no, it's not true, but the question has still plagued her throughout her career. "I've had meetings with external leaders where they primarily addressed the more junior male colleagues. I've had my comments frequently interrupted and my ideas ignored until they were rephrased by men. No matter how often this all happened, it still hurt," she wrote. In the meanwhile, The Guardian reported on Wednesday that more than 60 current and former Google women employees are considering suing Google on the grounds of sexism and a pay gap.
her first problem (Score:5, Insightful)
im just gonna leave this here.... (Score:5, Insightful)
http://quillette.com/2017/08/0... [quillette.com]
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Re:im just gonna leave this here.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Psychology and Sociology are not "bunk", that is just an obvious attempt by you to derail the conversation. They have, however, "soft" and "hard" results. The gender-based statistical differences in the "big five" characteristics are in the "hard" class, i.e. there really is no sane reason to assume they are wrong. They are also _statistical_ differences, i.e. do not tell you much about individuals. And ignoring them is a really bad idea, because it makes all actions in that direction far less effective and may even be counter-productive.
I do have a nasty suspicion by now though: All those claims that women are prevented from going into IT by "toxic work environments" and other invalid claims may well have the effect of preventing countless women from going into that field. That would be the ultimate irony: Those claiming to be for equal outcome actually causing a major part of the issue. Would not surprise me one bit. (Of course, "equal outcome" is bunk as well, as you have to assume all people go in in the same state. The actual thing to be for is "equal opportunity" and let people decide what they want, because people _are_ different.)
Re:her first problem (Score:5, Informative)
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Is there evidence to suggest that the traits identified in the memo are specific to one race? Or sexual orientation?
She is trying to be clever because she thinks the memo is "perpetuate negative stereotypes about them based on their gender" when it's not. She either didn't read the memo, didn't understand it, or will fulling misrepresenting it. What negative stereotypes are being perpetuated? Are there biological differences between men and women? Can we measure those differences in the population? Are thos
Re:her first problem (Score:5, Insightful)
How is saying "women are on average me neurotic" not perpetuating negative stereotypes? It's the sort of thing that leads to men being dismissed as thinking with their dicks.
It's not, at least if you know what the words actually mean.
First of all, "neurotic" in the context used in the memo doesn't mean "affect by neurosis", which most critics wrongly assume, it refers to one of the 5 personality traits [wikipedia.org], and that women on average score higher on this trait than men is recognized in scentific studies cited in the same article.
Furthermore, a stereotype is not stating that some trait appears more on average in a specific group, a stereotype is generalizing upon such average and treating all members of that group as if the trait is a given. The trait, even if more prominent, is not necessarily ubiquitous.
Back to neuroticism as example: if I state that women on average score more on neuroticism, I'm not creating any stereotype. If from that I generalize and state that all women must score more, or start to assume that all women I encounter must score more on neuroticism, then I'm creating a stereotype.
Note that the memo explicitly stated individuals need to be evaluated as individuals and not according to the tendencies of their groups, which means it's not creating nor promoting any stereotype. The opposite, the memo explicitly warns against drawing generalizations and creating stereotypes from these statistics.
Re: her first problem (Score:2)
Yes it was. Sorry you are too blinded by emotion to see reason on this. Maybe if you were a woman you'd be able to think more clearly and be less emotive.
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is calling it an "anti diversity" memo... .thats not what it was in the slightest.
Thanks for mansplaining this.
Thanks for an example of sexism.
Re:her first problem (Score:4, Insightful)
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First, that's a massive misrepresentation of the article.
Second, all the dads I know seem deeply concerned with their kids welfare, both physical and mental. So in answer to your rhetorical question: all the time.
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You must be new here. This is /., RTFA is purely optional.
Is that mutually exclusive with the memo? (Score:5, Insightful)
As I read the memo, it acknowledge that sexism was an issue. Even in the first paragraph.
I think not rationally responding to someone's point is becoming rampant in tech.
Re:Is that mutually exclusive with the memo? (Score:4, Insightful)
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point stands its not sexism
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As I read the memo, it acknowledge that sexism was an issue. Even in the first paragraph.
I think not rationally responding to someone's point is becoming rampant in tech.
To be fair replying to articulate points has never been a strength of the PC crowd. They rely on dogma enforced by mobs. Facts are generally inconvenient for them and are best avoided.
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As I read the memo, it acknowledge that sexism was an issue. Even in the first paragraph.
So? Acknowledging a problem doesn't excuse you when you prove to be a part of it.
I think not rationally responding to someone's point is becoming rampant in tech.
The points have been rationally responded to time and time again. The first few pages (all I read) were bunk. There were a few correct bits, some wild extrapolation from small results and some out right falsehoods.
The onus is not on everyone to rationally rebut
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You keep talking about talking about the paper.
Um, yeah? That's what this is all about.
Quote it, reference the reference material that underlies the quoted section,
Not all sections have any references backing them up.
provide your own interpretation of what the actual facts are, and then provide a peer reviewed paper that substantiates your point.
In other words, I now need to do a much more thorough job than he did? If every brain fart from a bigot really justified massively more detailed responses, then I'
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This article explains quite clearly what happened to end up with people like you:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ma... [theatlantic.com]
Re:Is that mutually exclusive with the memo? (Score:4, Interesting)
And here you are virtue signaling about how much you hate SJWs and virtue signaling.
Kinda ironic really.
Re: Is that mutually exclusive with the memo? (Score:4, Insightful)
boo hoo (Score:3, Funny)
She was ignored and talked over until she became the CEO, what a sad story. :(
The solution is obvious... (Score:2)
women who want their voices heard should be in "corporate IT" instead of "high tech". Lots of women crank out boring-but-necessary code all day, then move up to become team leads and higher, or DBAs, etc. (I've not seen any female SysAdmins, though.)
Next on True News... (Score:3)
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"Virtue signaling at its peak in SV ivory tower."
At its peak? What makes you think it can't get worse?
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It's a great phrase, and perfectly describes what is happening. It's so great that people are already misusing it, just like Susan Wojcicki is misusing "anti-diversity" and "sexism".
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Well, not always sexism.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I've had my comments frequently interrupted and my ideas ignored until they were rephrased by
While this may be sexism at work and there certainly is sexism in the field, pretty much everyone experiences having their thoughts interrupted and ignored until rephrased by someone else, with someone else getting the credit for those thoughts.
Re:Well, not always sexism.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I've had my comments frequently interrupted and my ideas ignored until they were rephrased by men.
I've seen this happen to a female developer at my last job. Superficially it looked like sexism. In actuality, it was merit-based. She would regularly, even frequently, make comments or ask questions that revealed a profound lack of understanding of the language we were all developing in, and she was not new to the language. On the rare occasions when her comment or question had merit, it required a man to rephrase it before anyone would listen to it seriously because she had trained everyone around her to ignore her or discount her input or answer her only to correct her.
There were half a dozen female developers on the floor. Two of them, including the aforementioned one, were obvious diversity hires who would have been laid off if they were men. The second one didn't even have a technology related degree. Her degree was in English composition, and she did not have an additional one, yet she wrote code all day. It was blatant sexism—in favor of women. The two of them made the lives of the other female developers miserable, just from suspicion and spillover, though they were good developers. It took extra time for new hires to separate their reactions appropriately simply because of those two.
Having said that, everybody did separate their reactions. No one talked over, ignored, rephrased, or repeated the questions and comments of the female developers who were actually good at their jobs. Merit matters in tech. A lot. Sexist policies that are retaining and promoting women out of proportion to their merit are hurting the cause of women in tech far more than anyone is willing to acknowledge. It needs to stop.
Re:Well, not always sexism.. (Score:4, Interesting)
. Two of them, including the aforementioned one, were obvious diversity hires
Yeah because shit male developers never get hired apart from all the fucking time. I love how only the bad female developers are separated out for comment.
The two of them made the lives of the other female developers miserable, just from suspicion and spillover,
That's literally sexism in action. No one seems to ever consider "that guy" (you know the one) to some how cast doubt and suspicion on all male developers, yet when you get bad female developers there's suspicion and spillover.
What the fuck ever happened to merit over gender?
Re:Well, not always sexism.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Furthermore, affirmative action policies only further serve to feed notions of racism, because when you try to meet a quota system that requires you to hire candidates in excess of their availability, then you need to do one of the following: 1) Hire candidates from the target demographic with lower skill levels than candidates not of that demographic. 2) Pay higher salaries for quota system candidates in order to lure the most capable away from other offers. 3) Accept lower skill levels across the board and turn away highly skilled applicants who are not in the target demographic.
The first is going to result in a perception that a demographic is less skilled, the second will result in a perception of inequality based on demographic lines assuming anyone finds out about the pay difference, and the third is just a poor business decision. Never mind that it's not a great feeling if your peers are more skillful than you are because you were hired for characteristics beyond your control and not for your ability. If you have a corporate policy that mandates some kind of quota system or preference towards one, people are going to tend to assume that the people favored in that process are not as good. This sucks even more for the demographic candidates who are highly skilled, because natural human tendency is going to lead people to judge them as being less capable or undeserving.
All that aside, one would expect female developers to be anecdotally singled out more often due to out-group bias and because in smaller companies, minority individuals stand out more for good and bad. In the case of the first pick any group in any context and if you are a member of it you're less likely to notice poor behavior of people who you identify as being in the same group as you and more likely to identify and remember the poor behavior of the people who you identify as being outside of that group. In the second case, exceptions just stand out more and if you only have a few examples of some mental category you've constructed, you're more likely to draw on those limited observations for future reference and the small number of data points makes it more difficult to have the same broader picture as you would with groups from which there are numerous examples.
Putting it down to sexism in every instance is just a failure to understand the underlying causes and is just going to piss off everyone else who you invariably lump into the sexism category as part of your brains natural tendency to categorize and generalize.
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Ego comes first. What you describe never happens. It's not 'more skillful', it's knowitallmansplainingasshole...
Strangely, you have to be pretty good at something, just to accept someone is better at anything. The people that can't do shit, are shit at recognizing skill. They project their incompetence far and wide.
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Yeah because shit male developers never get hired apart from all the fucking time. I love how only the bad female developers are separated out for comment.
There were two shit male developers. Both of them were even on the same team as the shit female developers. One of them was in charge of the build system. What he created was a clusterfuck of epic proportions. I taught myself CMake in an afternoon just so I could at least partially unfuck it. He got fired as part of a mass layoff six months later. The other one was one of those guys who tried to make himself indispensable by hiding his code, never checking it in to source control. He was in charge of
Re:Well, not always sexism.. (Score:5, Interesting)
I (female) have been in the software industry since the 80's. My first job was with a small company that made custom printer interface cards. I constituted the entire tech support and software maintenance department (as I said, small company!).
I would sometimes get calls from customers having problems who would simply not accept what I was telling them. In cases like these I would go down the hall to a male coworker's office and tell him that I had a customer that "needed a deeper voice". He (manager - no technical knowledge) would take the call with me on the extension at the back of the room mouthing the answers to the customer's questions which he would then speak into the phone. The customer would then be quite satisfied with the answers and we would have a good laugh.
I suspect that things have improved some since then but still run into people who seem to "need a deeper voice".
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Actually, if you pick a random female and a random male, this will be true (although in most cases both will be incompetent, so very low trust is advisable in both cases). If you pick a random engineer or scientist, then gender will not matter at all.
Google is addressing a necessary problem (Score:2)
I think a lot of us have wondered, how will the next generation of innovators possibly upset titans like Google? They have unthinkable amounts of money and resources, along with an impressive portfolio of talent, patents and subsidiaries. The answer is that they will voluntarily commit suicide by eroding all trust in their brand, and driving off their most productive people in favor of shit-stirrers, and stifling the creativity and independence of employees who might be able to invent the next big thing --
emotional therapy (Score:5, Funny)
She says her feelings were hurt due to her experiences...
coincidentally this vaguely reminds me of a someone who once wrote up a memo about how men and woman can react differently due to biological differences.
I cant quite remember where or who said it, oh well, I'm sure someone can google it for me.
Why is it so hard to admit? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is it so hard to admit there is rampant sexism in tech? It's been true for at least 20 years, probably longer. It was definitely true during my time in the industry.
Just start by admitting there's a problem.
Re:Why is it so hard to admit? (Score:5, Informative)
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Boom headshot! That straw man is going doooooown!
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white washing the news (Score:4, Interesting)
Google management is now actively white washing the news never addressing what was in the memo and spreading pure BS, people have to read themselves the memo and compare what Google management is saying, things don't add up at all.
Modest proposal (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact that so many men line up to express outrage and hysteria over every single Slashdot story like this is the best proof that there is a serious need for more women in tech jobs.
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Or... it's annoying and rage-inducing to rational people and we're letting off steam.
You're not drawing a logical conclusion from the evidence you cite. You're assuming a link without proof because it supports your assumptions, and that's weak thinking.
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I love how the social injustice warriors attempt to pick apart any study that shows sexism in tech, but when citations are made to opposite sources (see the anti diversity memo) no one of the SIW s here treat them as anything but gospel.
Double standards.
Or she's just wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
Wojcicki opens by saying her daughter asked her, "Is it true that there are biological reasons why there are fewer women in tech and leadership?" Wojcicki says no, it's not true, but the question has still plagued her throughout her career.
Or she's just wrong. Choosing not to believe in something doesn't make it go away.
I'm sure there are plenty of parents telling their children that climate change isn't real, but that isn't going to stop global temperatures from increasing.
And really it comes down to about the same thing. There are some people who have built their world view around a belief that isn't true, and even when presented with large amounts of evidence to suggest otherwise they will continue to dismiss it. I've found that there are very few people who are scientifically minded and rational and even if they did accept the reality of both climate change and sex-based biological differences, there're just as likely to be off the reservation in some other area like the link between vaccination and autism, GMO food, or even something as laughable as the age of the earth.
I don't think anyone's really immune and humans have some terrible cognitive inclinations that make us unwilling to let go of view points once we've latched on to them. I was recently at a family reunion and watched some of my relatives get into an argument over some idiotic event in the past for almost five hours. Even after someone got annoyed enough to dig up an old photo on Facebook to prove their point, the other person still wouldn't admit they were wrong and started inventing all kinds of fanciful reasons to explain away the photo. It was kind of surreal, but I've done the same plenty of times myself. I think there should be a class in school about being wrong about whatever and learning to accept new data that challenges our original assumptions.
I tried raising my daughter to be an engineer (Score:5, Interesting)
When she was 3-4 she started playing minecraft.
When she was 6, we assembled her first PC.
When she was 9, we upgraded her video card.
She's 11 now. She understands underlying components, she understands basic TCP/IP networking. She understands partitions, how to install an OS. She knows what to not click, and how to keep her computer free of crap. At 11, she's got an equal understanding of tech from when I started at 20. Yet she doesn't want to do it. She wants to be an artist. She thinks all babies are super cute. People call her "Mini-me" because she looks like me, and is good with computers like me. There's nothing wrong with saying, "She's biologically predisposed to not go into an engineering role"
She never played with dolls or barbies. Always computers, her choice. Yet she does not want to go into an engineering role like her mom and dad. (Actually, her mom moved onto management years ago)
Re:I tried raising my daughter to be an engineer (Score:4, Informative)
I'm sure this same scenario is true for someone with a son, so how is gender the determining factor?
XKCD said it well [xkcd.com].
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You do realize that there's plenty of studies out there showing that's not the case right? Even in cultures that are matriarchies. It's inherently biological. You can pretend that it doesn't exist all you want, but the science is out there waiting for you to read it.
the cult (Score:2)
The cult of Equality of Outcome for STEM occupations and various high paying jobs, irrespective of ability, interest, desire to work, or other factors, is a noxious beast. Just like the cult of Identity Politics Victimhood
We're getting wise to you though. Each time you push a regressive campaign against science, or discriminate against merit in favor of identity, we see evidence. When you push Feelz not Realz speech codes and protest again truth, we see machinations.
Please, keep it up.
Who are the scientists? (Score:2)
So, in the previous threads on this one, quite a few people were saying things like, "A number of scientists have come out and said, 'No, he's right about the things in his letter'", or words to that effect.
So... Who are these scientists?
Anyone have some names? And fields of science for those names?
You seriously cannot use Google?????????? (Score:2)
Four seconds later [quillette.com]...
Weak dude. No wonder your mind cannot handle advanced concepts like "biological differences are different".
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Quilette is blocked at work, 'dude'.
I've no idea why. The blocker says "games", but I have to think that's a mis-classification.
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Oh, and my request about wanting to know who was saying this wasn't, as you suppose because my mind can't handle certain things.
It's because I wanted to make sure it wasn't like you see so often in other debates where someone with a PhD in a completely unrelated field (i.e., an electrical engineer PhD talking about climate change) is saying you should believe them because they've got a PhD.
Because, lord knows, we've ~never~ had that sort of thing happen on Slashdot before.
Why lie? (Score:4, Insightful)
I think there are probably some very good and legitimate criticisms that can be made of this memo. I am not even necessarily opposed to this engineer being fired.
But why lie about the contents of the memo? I am very sympathetic to the idea that diversity is a good thing (as apparently the author of the memo was as well), but I am completely turned off by the fact that the strategy utilized by "the other side" (not the other side from me... yet) is to lie about what's in it.
It is not anti-diversity. Maybe it's wrong. But it being wrong doesn't make it automatically anti-diversity. Redistributing this falsehood is intellectually dishonest.
I don't want to be on a side that's wrong. I also don't want to be on a side that's dishonest.
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Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Sexism is indeed pervasive (Score:2)
Youtube is owned by Google. (Score:3)
You need to pick a less obvious mouthpiece. Nice try, though, Google.
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Most white males don't have any power.
This. The 1% are thriving by convincing everyone that it's all the white males fault. Most white males aren't part of the 1% however by protecting themselves they keep the mob somewhat at bay and by extension protect the 1%. If you ever want to stop the 1% then think of all the fragments required to piece together a 99% (hint that will include deplorables and others that you don't like). Until you're willing to stop insisting on complete agreement with any given agenda other than economics the 1% will t
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The 1% are thriving by convincing everyone that it's all the white males fault. Most white males aren't part of the 1% however by protecting themselves they keep the mob somewhat at bay and by extension protect the 1%.
The greatest con of 2016 was 1%ers like Trump convincing people that he really cares for the underclass and will totally fight for them. And the underclass was dumb enough to believe him his nonsense, despite being shown time and time and time again that this is bullshit.
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So - "it doesn't happen to me, therefore it doesn't happen?"
Not quite. Some other white male would do something stupid to get the rest of us sent to sensitivity training so HR can avoid singling out the individual white male who thinks he's special snowflake. That was just the 1990's.
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You're a diversity hire.
That could explain why I'm the only white male in the department.
The trolls on Slashdot assumes you're mentally disabled.
FTFY
They won't admit it to your face, but behind your back they check the box that says they hired you for your disability.
The only accommodation that I ever requested under the American Disability Act was a phone headset since I have hearing loss in one ear. Fortunately, phone headsets are so cheap that everyone gets one.
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You said you work with old white beards and you're the youngest.
Everyone has white beards.
Were you lying then or are you lying now liar?
Why would I lie about people having white beards? Even at 48, I have a white beard.
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Jews are fucking hated for existing (by antisemitic idiots).
Blacks are fucking hated for existing (by race-based nationalist idiots).
Atheists are fucking hated for existing (by religious zealots all many creeds).
While males a
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Re: It is (Score:3)
You should tell the homeless white guys I see every day about their privileged existence. I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.
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No, but teachers get about 3 months vacation a year. Which is more than just about any other profession I can think of. Also, Nurses (In Canada) earn $65,000 â" $75,000 a year, which is a pretty decent wage. The average RN salary in the US is $67,930. Also, those are just base salaries, and nurses actually get plenty of overtime if they choose to work for it and can often end up making over 100k a year. [soliant.com]
If you ask me, the people who are the suckers are the guys working IT jobs 60 hours a week and no
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The average RN salary in the US is $67,930. Also, those are just base salaries
I really want to support those against this PC bullshit, but these two things do not jive together. Is it an average, or a base? Pick one. Can't have both.
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Industrial welders can make six-figures easily. (Work on an oil rig.) Truck drivers and heavy machinery operators also.
And PS, so can nurses (at least in much of Canada), with just a bit of overtime.
Are you that white-collar that you have no idea that blue-collar people can actually earn quite well?
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Re:Woman dominated professions? (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, welding machine / cables can be super heavy. My gf friend is an electrician and need men's help to carry some wire spools because she's too weak to carry these.
A good friend of mine is a female journeyman industrial electrician. She's fully cognicent that she doesn't have the strength to do certain tasks, but has advantages in other ways. On the job, she basically makes a deal with the guys. They do the heavy work, she squeezes into the stupid nooks and crannies where they have to do work, or climbs up on the wire platform, or whatever, where it would be impossible for the guys to get to.
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This may be true for a lot of individuals, but is not the norm. Most of the oil businesses around people started in their 20s (or earlier) and keep right on welding through retirement. Some of them burn out and become project inspectors which is less labor intensive, but still subject to the travel and weather conditions.
Re:Woman dominated professions? (Score:4, Insightful)
That isn't a tech job, that was an accounting job.
Did women rule Edison's laboratories and the radar labs in WW2?
There are more women in technical jobs today, than in 1900.
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Someone please mod this up. Parent is confusing STEM with Information Technology....the two aren't synonymous.
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Did women rule Edison's laboratories? No, because Edison was a massive misogynist prick, and a thief. What does that or radar labs in WW2 have to do with what I wrote or Google, other than reinforcing my point. Women weren't in those jobs not because they weren't capable, but because they weren't allowed.
And I'm sorry, no, calculating launch trajectories for NASA and programming the ENIAC was not "an accounting job".
As for your last comment, yeah, there are more women in technical jobs today, because a lo
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The FACT is that women ruled tech jobs, until men decided they were too profitable for the little ladies and took over.
When did this occur? When did women stop dominating architecture or civil engineering? When did they stop being the majority of mathematicians and chemist?
I'm not making the argument that they didn't rule these fields because of biological differences, and it very well could be because of misogyny or sexism; but making shit up doesn't make you right.
What does that or radar labs in WW2 have to do with what I wrote or Google, other than reinforcing my point. Women weren't in those jobs not because they weren't capable, but because they weren't allowed.
Plenty. It also directly contradicts what you wrote in that first sentence.
Two words for you: Hidden Figures (Score:4, Informative)
Not only did a single woman calculate the reentry for Grissom she HAD TO DISCOVER THE NEEDED MATH.
I would like to see you stream a Stock KSP session where you recreate Grissoms flight with only RSS installed as mods.
(i think you have 20 square miles to land in)
Oh and do the calcs by hand on paper with only a simple calculator
Re:Woman dominated professions? (Score:4, Insightful)
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The problem with Tech isn't that men dominate it, it's that men do so by passively aggressively forcing women out. Discouraging someone every step of the way and then declaring "biological differences" keeps them out is a pathetic echo chamber tactic.
No, that's basic male behavior to weed out competition, which is not intrinsically bad. The only approach women have found to fight this is to whine and go into daddy's pant (ie. governments, "code of conduct") asking him to beat the shit out of the bully instead of finding a way to "man up" and fight back on their own. This is *proving* women's weakness, as in their inability to be responsible *on their own* without crying for help.
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My wife and her friends already do this to me.
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The problem with Tech isn't that men dominate it, it's that men do so by passively aggressively forcing women out.
A woman is more likely to be backstabbed by another woman at work than another man.
A man who actually tries to help a woman can get accused of mansplaining.
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Women don't need to tell me I'm not biologically suited to nursing. I already know it.
And as a man "in tech", I can state that I do not force women or anyone else out. Maybe you're thinking of management, which frequently seems disproportionately concerned with stereotypical appearances, usually in a negative way. "In tech", we generally take a merit-based view of things. Can you do the job? If so, good. Can you be trained to do the job? If so, train well, and you're on board. Could you do the job or be tra
Re:Women and IT donâ(TM)t mix (Score:5, Interesting)
I've had useless coworkers in several fields, races, and genders. Most of the time I encounter a girl programmer, she's not very good--probably because about 95% of all programmers I encounter are not very good. Pigeon hole principle.
So, to recap: I've encountered about 12-15 male programmers who weren't very good and 2 female programmers who weren't very good in the past 10 years. I've encountered 1 non-shitty male programmer and 0 non-shitty female programmers. Jeff Attwood doesn't count because I haven't worked directly with him or had to support his development team. Statistically, there's a huge problem with sample size here.
As for leadership positions? The field of project management is strangely full of men who function as mindless bureaucrats and women with star performance. I don't know why. Tres Roeder spearheaded the inclusion of project stakeholder management in the latest edition of the PMBOK; maybe women are pretty good at that and men are generally fucking terrible. We can make guesses all day, and most of them will probably be wrong.
Let's try not to draw conclusions from low-quality information, or make simple conclusions about vastly-complex topics.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
What's the one word to describe women who can't handle the idea that men may be better than them at [fill in the blank]?
And is that one word equally pejorative and dismissive?
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As a man I know I have been beat down a zillion times at work. And I've dished it out as well.
And so have I. But that working environment descended from blue collar, agricultural, non intellectual jobs which were prevalent a hundred years ago. Where physical strength equaled leadership. But that isn't necessary in STEM fields. In fact, it cripples the organization. Just look at how badly Microsoft did under Ballmer (throwing chairs around and yelling at people) compared to the company under Nadella.
I've worked with people that resorted to talking over others, monopolizing meetings and other aggress
Re: (Score:2)
It's not isolated to California & New York.
I worked as a programmer for several years in South Carolina. And sexism was rampant in tech there.
Now, you could argue "well, yeah, but it's South Carolina... sexism is rampant everywhere there", and I wouldn't entirely disagree. But it is more prevalent than just NY/Cali.
Re:Misses the point yet again (Score:4, Insightful)
Women should not be discouraged from studying CS, Engineering, Math any science
On the contrary. They're encouraged with much more passion than any man ever has been. And they're still not very interested.
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And sometimes you just don't have the social standing of the person co-opting your idea, so you're ignored and they get away with improving their position on someone else's effort.
Which sucks, but has nothing to do with your genitals.
Re: (Score:2)
Hypocrisy? That's you.
You're claiming conservatives want to not hire/serve certain people despite what the law says, then you're mocking them for expecting the law to be upheld.
What's next - you're going to laugh at people who are against certain taxes for using the things funded by those taxes after being forced to pay those taxes?
Get a brain, moran.
Re: (Score:3)
It will certainly improve my chances of being allowed to telecommute every day.