Tesla Faces Labor Board Complaint Alleging Interference With Unionization (arstechnica.com) 147
According to Ars Technica, a federal labor board on Thursday "filed a complaint against Tesla, alleging that the electric vehicle company had discouraged workers from distributing pro-union information, stopped them from talking about employee safety to the United Auto Workers (UAW) union, and in one case, prevented an employee from taking a picture of the Confidentiality Agreement they had to sign." From the report: The Oakland, California-based regional office of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) consolidated the complaints of three former Tesla employees, Michael Sanchez, Jonathan Galescu, and Richard Ortiz, as well as complaints made by UAW. The complaint alleges that on numerous occasions between February 2017 and May 2017, security guards and human resources agents working on behalf of Tesla told employees that they had to leave the Fremont, California, factory premises because they were distributing pro-union leaflets. In addition, one employee says that over the course of two meetings, a Human Resources Business Partner and an Environmental Health Safety and Sustainability Specialist "interrogated the employee about the employee's Union and/or protected, concerted activities," as well as the pro-union activities of other employees. In March, the complaint claims, a supervisor told his employees during a pre-shift meeting that they could not distribute any stickers or pamphlets that hadn't been approved by Tesla first, or they would be fired. In another incident, a Human Resources Business Partner allegedly "attempted to prohibit an employee from discussing safety concerns with other employees and/or with the Union."
Elon Musk is a hypocrite (Score:2, Interesting)
Musk has stated his support for universal basic income, to protect workers who would lose their jobs. It's easy to say that when it comes out of everyone's tax bills. Hiwever, when his workers want to form unions to protect themselves, his company is actively working to prevent them from exercising collective bargaining rights. What a hypocrite.
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I think your math is off a bit. Even with 0% investment, $900,000/240 months = 3750/month. With 5% returns it's closer to $2250/month. That's still implies an income well above average, but not quite as bad as you list.
Understated returns by half, matches. 7% income (Score:2)
He also assumed a return of only 5%
The average annualized return of the S&P 500 Index was 11.69% from 1973 - 2016. For the last ten years, it's been 11.4%.
With average returns, to amass $900,000 over 20 years, requires an investment of $12,015 / year. So roughly 10% of your income for most of us. HOWEVER, most of us probably work for employers who will match at least 3%, so we only need to invest about 7% ourselves.
If you make only $60,000 a year, and never get a raise, to be a millionaire in 20 years
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I've managed to invest around $900,000
Lets assume it has taken you 20 years to accumulate that much. At an average 5% return, that would mean your monthly contribution has been about $6,000 per month. Even if this is pretax, and assuming you are homeless and don't eat, that puts your annual income at $72,000
So your basic solution to low paying non-union jobs is to not have a low paying job. Nicely done! You have solved world poverty. We need to make everyone aware of this breakthrough
Somehow, I think the more likely answer is that you're an asshole libertarian, and can't justify your political beliefs without lying.
Check the math. Even without interest:
900000/20 = 45,000 saved per year
45000/12 = 3,750 saved per month
Interest is going to decrease this value to $2190 saved per month.
Your point that not everyone is in a position to save this strongly is still true, but you have vastly overstated (i.e. by a factor of almost 3) how much you need to save.
The UAW is like the mafia (Score:2, Interesting)
The UAW is basically acting like a mafia organization now. They do not want Tesla to succeed, because Elon Musk's eventual vision is to drastically reduce human presence on the manufacturing floor through unprecedented production automation. Right now, GM uses robots for frame assembly, but the assembly of the rest of the car is primarily done by humans. Tesla currently occupies the NUMMI plant, formerly a venture of GM and Toyota opened in 1984. It was shut down, in large part because it was unprofitable d
Re:The UAW is like the mafia (Score:5, Insightful)
It is not surprising that in 2015 with a new production line (the Model X) that injury rates were high. However my understanding is that due to the addition of a third shift amongst other things, that the injury rate has dropped to half industry average. In all honesty, this sounds like a professional media push, even your comment. That's the problem with comment boards...no accountability. We subconsciously treat all comments as if they are expressions of honest opinion, but the reality is that many comments on hot button issues where PR companies are involved, are likely expressions of the interests of one organization or another (in this case, the UAW).
My honest opinion, as a person who believes that electrification of the transport system is the only way to begin to get a handle on reducing our dangerous carbon emissions, is that the UAW quite literally wants to bring Tesla's growth to a grinding halt. My argument for this is that they have an institutional self-interest to do so, in large part because Tesla wants to create an unprecedented fully automated manufacturing line, which will reduce membership in the union. In my experience, institutional self-interest is the best predictor of the actions of organizations.
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If you claim safety is magically improved then I would like a citation. Not sure how you get 4 points for your opinion based on "a person who believes electrification..." blah blah. I was a contractor at the plant working 14 hour days for a long time and I was shocked by their standards for safety. I was also surprised at Tesla's lax protocols and their eagerness to import the cheapest workers from wherever. I also got a kick out of the profane gangster rap workers would blast from radios stationed at d
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The workers were predominately Hispanic and Asian, but the thing about the gangster rap was the disgusting objectification of women. Nothing like being in a so called professional work environment and being forced to hear songs about screwing and slapping "bi***s*" and hoes which are blasting super loud as women are working in the next pitch. And then the super line managers walk out a peon worker for calling another worker a "pu****". The double standards were ludicrous.
I gotta say, I did love eating fr
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If you claim safety is magically improved then I would like a citation. Not sure how you get 4 points for your opinion based on "a person who believes electrification..." blah blah. I was a contractor at the plant working 14 hour days for a long time and I was shocked by their standards for safety. I was also surprised at Tesla's lax protocols and their eagerness to import the cheapest workers from wherever. I also got a kick out of the profane gangster rap workers would blast from radios stationed at different pitches. Tesla badly needs a union in my opinion. There are a lot of things they are still learning about building cars and I saw things that would never fly at any other auto plant. The union would definitely improve things.
I'll provide citations since you don't. What is this crap? They don't vet the people working for a contract house so you end up with undocumented workers in the plant working obscene hours in dangerous locations. This kind of stuff doesn't happen in UAW or Japanese plants...
http://www.teslarati.com/tesla... [teslarati.com]
You post as an AC and give a single cite which itself says that Tesla was not at fault, according to OSHA, for the incident. Were you trying to prove your point or just hoping no one would bother to actually read your cite.
What's more, I'd be very very surprised if every UAW and Japanese plant is a paradise of safety and wonderfulness where no one is ever hurt and no one ever feels over worked and so on. I've been to at least one such plant, small sample I know, and I can easily imagine standing at that lin
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Also, let me tell you their automation is nothing compared the typical Japanese plant. Tesla has some of the lowest levels of automation compared to the typical auto factory. They just discovered how to run a moving assembly line and they struggle with it. They are still learning how to build cars.
Your comment is totally uninformed. When was the last time you visited an auto plant?
Re:The UAW is like the mafia (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, let me tell you their automation is nothing compared the typical Japanese plant. Tesla has some of the lowest levels of automation compared to the typical auto factory. They just discovered how to run a moving assembly line and they struggle with it. They are still learning how to build cars.
Your comment is totally uninformed. When was the last time you visited an auto plant?
Almost every car manufacturer uses automation for frame welding. No one, I repeat, no one, not the Japanese, not the Germans has fully automated the assembly of the interior of the car. For example, inside the dashboard of most cars, wiring is snaked around many different places, and it is typically connected using wiring harnesses. You cannot get a robot to reliably pick the correct wiring harnesses and plug them into one another. There are simply too many variables. Take a look under your Japanese car dashboard, and you will see many wiring harnesses. They cannot be assembled by robots.
As an example of Tesla's innovation, their new car (the Model 3) has a glass roof. If you don't choose that option, a steel cover will be put in place of the glass. The reason they do this is to keep the roof of the car open for clear robotic access during interior assembly. Their next generation of car will be built for full robotic manufacturing. Things like wiring harnesses will be replaced by parts with interior wiring and plugs, so that robots can easily snap parts together.
You are a 2+2=5 troll.
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It is really lame when somebody like you who likes call people trolls is modded more insightful than some Anonymous Coward who allegedly worked at a Tesla plant
FTFY
Also, here's a citation [electrek.co] for the injury rate dropping. I'll admit it's biased, since it's coming from Elon who has a vested interest in making these claims. But the claims that the injury rate are so high are coming from the UAW who also have a vested interest in making these claims. So, at worst these claims are equivalent.
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I think you went too far when you used "allegedly" on an allegedly first-hand account, and then quoted some PR article.
FTFY (lol)
Seriously though, I feel the need to point out that this "first-hand" account is from someone who is hiding their identity whereas the PR article's author is not. So the nature of the bias and/or motivations from the "first-hand" account are much more hidden, whereas with the PR article, they're more clear.
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When dealing with others, I like to play a little game. I ask myself what could be the worst reason why they are acting as they do.
Then I remember my conclusion by tying a string around my little finger.
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more big screen TV than projection.
Re:The UAW is like the mafia (Score:5, Interesting)
There's shades of that in Tesla's response (which of course Slashdot, eternally lacking any sort of attempt to be balanced, did not post):
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Not really. [slashdot.org]
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Oh the irony, a RWNJ trying to cope with the choice either supporting a union, or Musk.
Aha, the good old but Hilary, is there anything it cant do?
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Musk has stated his support for universal basic income, to protect workers who would lose their jobs. [...] his company is actively working to prevent [workers] from exercising collective bargaining rights. What a hypocrite.
There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about that. Unions were an absolutely necessary step in securing rights for workers, but now they protect the rights of their members and everyone else can go fuck themselves. (They occasionally spend a little money lobbying for an increased minimum wage, but only when their salaries are expressed as multiples of the minimum wage.) Meanwhile, the union administrators walk away with fat stacks of cash, and the unions themselves are still often under the influence of o
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but now they protect the rights of their members and everyone else can go fuck themselves.
And companies protect the rights of the owners and everyone else can go fuck themselves.
Why are you against one form of collective bargaining (unions) but for the other (corporations)?
Meanwhile, the union administrators walk away with fat stacks of cash
So do large company executives.
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Why are you against one form of collective bargaining (unions) but for the other (corporations)?
Oh actually, I'm anti-corporation. I prefer co-ops. I think that corporations should actually have to justify their existence before being granted a charter, and show some evidence that they will do more good than harm by existing.
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Oh actually, I'm anti-corporation. I prefer co-ops. I think that corporations should actually have to justify their existence before being granted a charter, and show some evidence that they will do more good than harm by existing.
Hm OK, that's fair then.
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I think Musk is more opposed to the leverage the other auto makers would have over the unions and their ability to interfere with Tesla's business than the notion of collective bargaining. If you look back at history the big automakers would utilize any lever they have (unions, parts makers, law makers, etc.) to keep out new entrats into the market.
In order for Tesla to succeed they need to own their own destiny and not be at all dependent on anything the other automakers can influence.
Cool car. (Score:2)
Cool car.
Whatever.
Cool car.
robot overlords (Score:2, Offtopic)
elon sometimes reminds me of bender, especially when he says "kill all humans"
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I've got something even better! Carbon neutral wood powered trucks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Order yours on our Kickstarter.
(j/k)
PayPal (Score:1, Offtopic)
Elon reminds me of PayPal, which I personally have never had any negative business experience with.
To be one of the dot.bomb moguls who survived the explosion.....
It's always the same... (Score:2)
Unions are bad (Score:5, Funny)
Without them we could enjoy the same unparalleled working conditions as Bangladeshi factory workers.
Re: Unions are bad (Score:5, Informative)
I've worked at union and non union auto manufacturers, including with Tesla, and unionizing is the worst option for both employer and employees. When you lose any motivation to work hard, the incentive to not be a lazy piece of shit disappears too.
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Meanwhile all the executives took huge salaries and bled the businesses dry and kept the money for themselves.
They chose terrible car designs and lobbied congress successfully for protection from progress instead of designing better cars.
Did the unions have problems? Sure.
Did the executives also have a HUGE hand in driving the companies to extinction? Sure.
one difference. The union folks are eating empty promises of pensions while the executive class took a large share of their money in cash at the time
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No, that is just you having no professional pride.
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I don't hate unions.
I think they give employees leverage with businesses.
I also think businesses have had a LOT of laws passed which limits the power of unions today (like industry wide strikes).
That being said... I've *never* known a union person who worked as hard as non-union. And not from fear...
Example
Friend of mine was a non union plumber (yech ! Ptoo!)
He shows up at a job site to install a line which requires a hole in a stud. They tell him, he has to wait until the stud hole driller gets back fro
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They could even do it as a group, and threaten to walk.
That is the literal definition of a union.
Anti-Union Dumbfuckery (Score:2, Insightful)
This "unions only protect the lazy" bullshit is dependent on the notion that not only are you going to be happy doing your own work, but your work plus Bob's down the hall whenever he feels like slacking off. No human is built that way - unless you're in an abusi
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When you lose any motivation to work hard
That has nothing to do with union status, and everything to do with your personal character.
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Without them we could enjoy the same unparalleled working conditions as Bangladeshi factory workers.
Unions were necessary and were a force for protecting employees' interests.
Unions now are primarily political action committees.
As with anything else whose time has come and gone, they are hanging on, but they are clearly in their death throes. If the Tesla factory were in South Carolina or Tennessee, they could even roll out the red carpet for the union, secure in the knowledge that the employees themselves will defeat any attempt to unionize, because it doesn't do anything for them.
Re:Unions are bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Unions act as a counterbalance to corporate greed. Has corporate greed disappeared? Have companies stopped killing their workers to save a few pennies on the dollar in profits? Have they stopped demanding their workers make huge pay and benefit cuts to up quarterly dividends - even as the company is enjoying all-time high profits?
Uh huh. And how do you propose they counterbalance the (infinitely more funded) political action committees from big business? You expecting them to unilaterally disarm as the latter engages in shenanigans like getting "small government" Republicans to override city-based minimum wage increases with state laws?
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I agree that union greed does a good job of balancing corporate greed. However, the world would be a better place without either.
The world could be a better place with or without a lot of different things, but you can't make it happen.
Safety is interesting because it used to be that the union was the only way to attempt to deal with safety violations. These days any employee can report problems directly to OSHA, which has the police power of state behind and actually sanction a company.
And the ineffectiveness of OSHA and other regulatory bodies is well known.
The union is not able to do that, except perhaps by way of a walkout or strike.
They can also go to court.
Employees can balance out the political action committees of big business by getting of their behinds and voting. People make it seem like money in elections is a problem.
That is your problem, unions putting money into elections.
If that is the case, then how did Trump win while Clinton spent nearly twice the amount of money that Trump did and had more than three times the amount of outside money supporting her campaign? The fact is that regardless of the money spent and who says what, the people will make their voices heard.
The US Presidential Election is probably not your best go-to example for that, given the massive amount of ancillary spending(making accounting such as yours to be mistaken when it relies on campaign spending), the flawed system of the Electoral Co
Re:Unions are an expression of free speech (Score:3)
Unionism is a subset of the right to free assembly and is one of the underlying principles of democracy. This is a spin off of free speech, when enough people feel the same way about some aspect of culture that it needs to be changed, that is how it is changed. That's the point of free speech.
It seems to me that many people are all for free speech until a group gathers to express it, then it becomes easy to marginalize them, as a group. Personally I go by the maxim that someone's free speech ends where
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Unionism is a subset of the right to free assembly and is one of the underlying principles of democracy. This is a spin off of free speech, when enough people feel the same way about some aspect of culture that it needs to be changed, that is how it is changed. That's the point of free speech.
I have no problems with unions anymore than I have problem with companies selling timeshares, in that while I disagree with what they do and believe that they misrepresent themselves to those who they claim to serve, I believe that individuals should have the right make the choice.
It seems to me that many people are all for free speech until a group gathers to express it, then it becomes easy to marginalize them, as a group. Personally I go by the maxim that someone's free speech ends where mine begins because if you give someone enough rope they'll either hang themselves or you'll find some sort of understanding. If you try really hard you may even find some mutual respect.
I agree with you here. Unions are free to speak as they like. However, the problems that I have with unions are: 1) they misrepresent themselves (claiming to care only about employee safety and other workplace-related matters,
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I have no problems with unions anymore than I have problem with companies selling timeshares, in that while I disagree with what they do and believe that they misrepresent themselves to those who they claim to serve, I believe that individuals should have the right make the choice.
Every individual believes they should have the right to choose. The issue at stake is the right to free assembly which is at least as fundamental as the right to free speech. When you make that kind of generalization it attacks the right to free assembly in an unconscious way.
However, the problems that I have with unions are: 1) they misrepresent themselves and, 2) forced membership
1) They all do that? Really, 100% of them misrepresent themselves. Say a specific union has corrupt practices, sure, I can accept that. Lots of groups misrepresent themselves, unions do too. That's just the world and we have to t
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I think this comes down to Personal Responsibility, which seems to be an unpopular concept, insofar as if you are going to work in a particular field of work then you had better know that in advance and figure out if you are comfortable with being in that union, otherwise what are you doing there? If you're so passionate about a certain field of work then you can form your own union that is optional and exercise your right to free assembly.
I am a huge fan of personal responsibility. In fact, the tendency of unions to breed mediocrity at the cost of personal responsibility is partly why I think that they are part of the problem and not part of the solution. In any event, I can understand where you are coming from. However, if a union establishes a closed shop somewhere (i.e., you must join that particular union as a condition of employment), then they are infringing upon the right of free assembly of any worker who does not wish to join the
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In fact, the tendency of unions to breed mediocrity at the cost of personal responsibility is partly why I think that they are part of the problem
That is the sad irony. Some people really are mediocre. We're not all equal and we never will be, worse some people actually choose to be mediocre. If they have a mediocre job and a mediocre union they are still free to step out of that. They either take on the personal responsibility willingly or they remain mediocre. Nothing is going to stop a mediocre person who thinks life is meaningless from being the least they can be. Having a union that they *have* to join is probably more than they deserve form
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I'm certain not willing to dictate to anyone what form their right to free assembly takes place. I'm going to come down of the side of freedom of expression, speech and assembly every time.
I am glad that we agree here. While unions should be free to organize and recruit members, people should likewise be free to ignore them. Again, like churches as I mentioned in my earlier reply (which I note you conveniently omitted). Unions should not be treated any differently than churches: if you want to join it is your business, but nobody should be able to force you to join.
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I'm certain not willing to dictate to anyone what form their right to free assembly takes place. I'm going to come down of the side of freedom of expression, speech and assembly every time.
I am glad that we agree here.
If people decide to assemble then the people who participate in their group have to abide by their rules. So if a union wants to have mandatory membership in that sector, that is that groups right which has no impact on freedom of choice of an individual to participate in that occupation.
While unions should be free to organize and recruit members, people should likewise be free to ignore them.
People voluntarily make them selves members of certain communities that have a set of standards. Those communities expect certain standards and some of them are mandatory if you expect to participate in that occupation. Ma
Re:Unions are bad (Score:5, Insightful)
Kind of like how we could just do away with the FDA, because drug fiascos like Vioxx are a thing of the past. [marketwatch.com] We can all trust our corporate overlords not to put their own greed above the interests of their own workers and customers...
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http://theweek.com/articles/54... [theweek.com]
How the American opiate epidemic was started by one pharmaceutical company
FROM
Mike Mariani
(Stephen Lam/San Francisco Chronicle/San Francisco/CORBIS)
March 4, 2015
The state of Kentucky may finally get its deliverance. After more than seven years of battling the evasive legal tactics of Purdue Pharma, 2015 may be the year that Kentucky and its attorney general, Jack Conway, are able to move forward with a civil lawsuit alleging that the drugmaker misled doctors and patients abo
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You do realize they stop a fraction. Of a percentage of abuses before they happen.
You work for a living - if you didn't, you wouldn't be posting here. A worker being opposed to unions makes as much sense as a woman being opposed to having the right to vote or own property. Of course, you can't actually find any women that stupid.
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Re: Unions are bad (Score:2)
Wolfsburg looks pretty nice even though the evil union have half the seats on Volkswagen's supervisory board.
Unions are a mixed bag (Score:2, Informative)
A long time ago, I worked in a retail store. WE had some version of the AFL-CIO representing usin our $2.15/hour jobs. I would see the union manager come around in his $1000 suits (a lot at the time). He didn't actually seem to be doing good for the employees, but it looked like he sure was doing good for himself.
It didn't take long before I was required to join. I called up my boss and refused to join the union. He made me the department maanger instead.
I can't say I ever missed having that union.
Another mixed bag: consistent thinking (Score:4, Insightful)
Anecdotes and confirmation bias in an anti-union post, how original. But you don't see people questioning the very concept of banking because of Well's Fargo fraudulently signing people up for accounts they didn't ask for.
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I assert that currency is a fiction. I don't deal with trivial matters like banking. And I think your job is dumb, not just your union.
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But you don't see people questioning the very concept of banking because of Well's Fargo fraudulently signing people up for accounts they didn't ask for.
No, you see the dumbshits lining up to be treated like shit and stolen from when there's a credit union literally across the street. My landlords' mortgage is with wells fargo and last time I went in to pay my rent which I do with a direct bank deposit, there was a line six people deep and a dickwad in a suit standing out front asking if he could help anyone with a non-cash transaction, to which the answer was no as usual. I told him my day would be better if I didn't have do business with a criminal organi
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If unions used to be good, they no longer are.
Why?
When their donations go to a single political party in mass and ignore what the members want, and that party votes in to make union membership mandatory, its pretty much pure corruption start to finish. Which is what we have now.
No, we don't, actually. Rather the opposite.
Getting on to government employee unions, why would they even need to exist? Except for the corruption I pointed out?
So government employees can't have their own interests which they want to see represented? Why?
If the government can't treat employees good, which the unions are there to make sure, then the entire country is pretty much screwed.
Yes, without unions, the entire country can get screwed, as can the employees. This is why they do have unions, thanks for noticing.
Its a bit of a conflict of interest for a political party to help a union that is going to donate to that party, all using tax payer money.
Nope. Once it is in the employee's hands, it is NOT tax-payer money. Sorry.
With government unions, the DNC takes the money and the tax payers get screwed.
How so? Be specific.
Oh, add in that unions are allowed to put on political ads, but the DNC thinks others shouldn't be allowed to and you have pretty much corrupted free speech with unions.
Well, this example is not true, actually.
You want people to support unions? Take the political arm out of them and you will get 90%+ of the people supporting unions. You keep it BLATENTLY corrupt, and you get the support you currently see.
Nope. What will happen if Unions can't protect their interests politically, will be that they
zombie talking points (Score:2)
Other parties are free to court their votes. Isn't democracy neat that way?
See again about democracy. Don't like your union leadership? Vote them out. Any of you geniuses realize that's far more say you have, as opposed to the company's CEO?
Because many municipalities are happy to pay workers poverty-level wages? How much rarified air is in
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If you don't like the guy you vote him out, or what do you intend to do in the next presidential election?
Forthrightedness (Score:5, Insightful)
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Organizers don't organize for the benefit of the organized. They organize for the benefit of the organizer.
(Alinsky is said to have uttered something along these lines when asked why he never joined any of the groups created according to his teachings.)
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Wouldn't it be great it human nature worked that way?
Fact is - some people will turn down a free $20 bill.
Other folks are happy if they get a car but then feel bad if someone else gets a car.
both sides- union and management push worker's buttons.
The union helps workers sometimes- but it may have it's own agenda (stopping tesla) (getting a big fat paycheck for the union bossses).
Management.. well .. let's say there's almost no conflict there. They just use the hell out of workers in every way possible inste
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Behind every union is an employer who gives them a reason to exist.
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the union problem goes away because why would anyone want it?
You're assuming the union wants to unionise the plant for the better conditions of the workers.
Unions have ulterior motives too, a key one being self preservation and expansion (accumulation of power). Sure this often benefits the workers but just because the workers are already getting good conditions doesn't mean there isn't a continued drive for the above two.
Can Union's still be trusted with power? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you old enough to remember the 1970's in Britain (I was at primary school) you'll remember the mess the UK was un due to Unions flexing muscle.
It was like a 3rd world country. The worst year was the infamous "winter of discontent" [wikipedia.org].
I was off school either because the teachers were striking, the miners were striking (no coal, no heating, freezing school) or the school janitor was striking.
The rubbish (trash) was piling up on the streets as the refuse collectors were striking.
I would sit at home with my parents in the dark with a gas lamp because the power station had gone out on strike.
I have no love for Thatcher, her politics, policies or legacy. This union driven madness was really what brought her to power and she crushed them without mercy.
It was effectively the end of socialist Britain, the cold war had made communism a dirty world and socialism was getting a bad name thanks to the power drunk unions.
The pendulum has swung a bit too far right since then (NHS dismantlement) and, I personally, blame the unions for it.
They abused their power and we all paid for it.
Reading between the lines on this Tesla spat with unions makes me think it's a grab for power.
We're not hearing any stories of awful working conditions. Oppressed, underpaid workers or anything that would make us think 'they need help, they need a union".
I'd like to think there was protection and worker representation in place but I also don't want to see Tesla hindered in their championing of a clean automotive future due to aa union's (unnecessary) interference.
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I've been a professional software engineer for 27 years and I've never been in, or needed, the protection of a union. That's a reflection of my industry.
In a stagnant industry where there's no growth or innovation there's a very real risk of workers being exploited in cost cutting as executives try to show profit gains.
I don't believe Tesla in this category (yet) as they are doing something new, which is getting massive investment in anticipation of massive growth and returns.
Bring in the unions when they'v
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As I said, my industry has no unions. No comment ?
Taking a long term view of it I predict that Tesla's factories, and many more, will eventually end up fully automated.
Remaining competitive will be the driving factor.
Unions have had their day.
Right now a more important safe guard, to my thinking, is a basic universal income in response to the AI threat to the human labour work force.
I believe Musk has taken a stance in favour of this, no?
No, Anonymous Coward, I'm happy with my thinking.
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Present your own thoughts then rather just being "troubled", I've seen no anecdotes of your own, no shared experience or citations.
Hiding behind anonymity and attacking me without actually giving some solid reasoning of your own makes one suspicious of you being a Union troll.
You wanted proles back in generational poverty. (Score:2, Insightful)
That's what all that Thatcherite apologia translates to. You were the coddled child of bourgeois shitbags who wanted that whole workers-share-in-the-benefits-of-the-economy thing to be a passing phase in the post WWII era.
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Oh how wrong are you? I grew up in the south east of Glasgow during some of it's worst economic periods. Steel Mill closures and mass unemployment.
A Glasgow, working class, Scot apologising for Thatcher? That's like asking a Jew to apologise for Hitler.
Some socialist ideals work really well. I was educated to Masters level for free. The economy and population does benefit in the long term from that.
The problem with the traditional socialist ideas of communism, unionism etc are that they don't deal well with
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Lots of A.C posts which lacked anything but passionate venom towards my thoughts. It had religious undertones and I felt like a heretic being burned.
You were free to leave it be or respond with your own insights, anecdotes, feelings and thoughts to help enlightenment me. I enjoy a healthy debate.
When we fight monsters when tend to create new ones to fight them with.
Wasn't that what Nietzsche meant when he wrote "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze l
What does the Union want? (Score:2)
And what do the union representatives want?
I can't say it any better than this [youtube.com]!